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Goodbye Jesus

The Bible And Death For Homosexuality?


M4rio

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If someone says that the Bible does not instruct people to be punished by death for homosexuality, what would be both the best supporting evidence for their view and the best counter evidence within the Bible itself?

 

I'm aware of the verse that seems to explicitly call for it, so I'm more interested in how people say the Bible does not call for it and how a defense of that can be made.

 

Thanks

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When I was a christian, I attended a non-denominational protestant church.  They believed that with the birth, death, and resurrection of jesus we were no longer bound by the old law (old testament laws).  In the old testament, death was the penalty for homosexuality.  In the new testament, it is named as a sin but doesn't require the death sentence.

 

Of course it is all bullshit so it doesn't really matter but that is how they argue that death is no longer required.  

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This article recently appeared in my local newspaper. What a shocker, here in the south!  The author (a mennonite pastor)  attempts to explain how christians, reading the same bible and with many of the same values, can come to opposite viewpoints on the topic of same-sex marriage.  Of course the whole religion and the pretzel-logic from this pastor still stinks, but at least he is trying to be compassionate    Here are a few paragraphs from the article and the linky:

 

 

 

 

For the past 35 years, I have served in a pastoral role in five churches and, in each church, there has been debate about the legitimacy of same-gender marriage.

 <snipped>

 

There is no universally agreed-upon Christian definition of marriage, and there is no single biblical understanding of marriage. Within the Bible itself, the institution of marriage varies: from polygamy to monogamy, with conflicting attitudes on divorce, remarriage and who may marry whom. Not every church today has the same understanding of same-gender marriage. At this time, most are against it, but some support it.

 

The Christian argument against same-gender marriage is fairly well-known:   < snipped >

 

The Christian argument for supporting same-gender marriage is perhaps less well-known: One of the essential purposes of marriage in the Bible is reproduction ... < snipped > But today we no longer consider the ability to reproduce as essential for marriage. We have no problem blessing the unions of elderly couples or those with known reproductive disabilities.

 

Instead, we give more weight to another biblical purpose of marriage: mutual help and comfort. In the past few decades, it has become increasingly clear that same-gender couples are fully capable of offering this to one another.

 

It is true the Bible rejects same-gender sexual relations in a scattering of passages but, whenever it does so, it is because it is always assumed to be exploitive, promiscuous and self-centered. But today we see same-gender couples who have been faithful to each other for decades, displaying self-giving love that is as genuine as one will find in any heterosexual marriage.

 

The Bible says love for God and love for others is the highest moral law; every other moral decision must conform to these. If marriage for self-gender couples solidifies their love and faithfulness, then they are fulfilling the moral law of the Bible.

 

 

 

 

 

 

http://www.richmond.com/life/faith-values/article_bbd03f23-c94a-59ae-ab91-edc77d410a9a.html

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Thanks for the responses.

 

That is a pretty interesting approach from that pastor.

 

I'm interested in the subject because I often see people struggling to reconcile their own interpretations of what it means to be loving and kind with what's written in the Bible, and they want to hold on to the Bible as an authoritative source of goodness and inspiration, and so they sometimes make statements like, "The Bible doesn't say to kill to homosexuals". Now, we know that it does certainly say something that has been interpreted / translated / explained that way, at least in http://biblehub.com/leviticus/20-13.htm, and possibly elsewhere as discussed in other threads.

 

The discussions I get into with people end up at a stand still when it comes to this concept of an "infinite, absolute and greater love and definition of goodness".

 

I try to say that it's very difficult, if not impossible, to state that there is a universal, absolute definition of what is Good or Evil for any particular action undertaken by a conscious being.

 

From the perspective of a human being seeking to provide food for it's own child, one can reasonably conclude that it is Loving and Kind to deprive a "lesser animal" of its life in order to provide that sustenance. However, taking the eyes of the animal, it is an unfortunate and tragic event. Considering that many animals demonstrate emotions similar to our own when deprived of or separated from their own offspring, we can reasonably conclude that their pain is real and felt in a similar way to our own. Therefore, to state that there is some Absolute Standard that dictates which actions are Good and others Evil, to me, is always contextual, always conditional and framed from the perspective of a living being.

 

To take the analogy further, we can just look at vaccinations. There is always a non-zero possibility of a percentage of a population having an adverse or fatal reaction to an inoculation, but we still think it's a good idea because more people are helped than harmed in the aggregate.

 

Anyway, I know this is the realm of moral philosophy and large volumes and debates are written on this, but the topic was fresh in my mind after listening to Sam Harris interview Megan Phelps about leaving Westboro Baptist Church and listening to them describe accounts of Westboro members who believe, deeply, that it is actually more compassionate to preach against what they've been taught is wrong. And, the question in conversation became: if you disbelieve that, then how do you engage with these people in a way that can cause them to question their own conclusions, perhaps starting *within the Bible*, not outside of it.

 

Megan herself said that it was a Jewish person on Twitter who reminded her that if human beings kill those who have not been given, by God, a full opportunity to repent, then they are not following God's will. And he also reminded her of the story of Jesus drawing the line in the sand. (I am aware that many people conclude that story is not in the original writings, but it did cause Megan to deeply question her upbringing).

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Yep. It'll say whatever you want it to say.

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I too am glad that a good number of Christians now are seeing same-sex marriage as the above-quoted pastor does.

 

Yesterday I had lunch with a Catholic friend who surprised me by describing how he argued in favor of same-sex marriage to several conservative priests.  I hadn't realized how my friend had come around on this issue.

 

(He said he didn't really develop the following, but he joked about how with these guys, who all are well connected to the wealthy, he tossed out this idea, which would make the whole issue moot:  abolish inheritance!)

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