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Goodbye Jesus

Christianity Makes People Feel Sexy


Lilith666

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I was in church last Sunday, where I go over the summer to discourage my dad's guilt tactics, and a woman during the service was singing "How He Loves" by David Crowder. It goes:

"He is jealous for me

Loves like a hurricane, I am a tree

Bending beneath the weight of his wind and mercy

And all of a sudden, I am unaware of these afflictions

Eclipsed by glory and I realize just how beautiful you are

And how great your affections are for me

 

Oh, how he loves us, oh

How he loves us, how he loves us all" It starts out like that and goes on about love.

 

The line "he is jealous for me" made me think how Christianity takes advantage of people's need to be loved; no matter what they do, there is someone who loves them. Especially because the singer was a young woman, it reminded me that it tells women and girls they're "beautiful in god's eyes," they're princesses, god is like a father/husband/obsessed, all-powerful, Edward-Cullen-like boyfriend rolled into one. (Have you seen those fancy study bibles for teenage girls that tell them they're princesses because god is their father? Ugh.) I used to like that when I was younger; I felt swept away by a white knight from the forces of darkness, the knight loved me, and so on. In the OT, god compares himself to a lover, more than once I think: he rescued Israel, blah blah about Israel's metaphorical breasts, Israel started worshipping other gods which was like cheating on god, so he got jealous and punished the Israelites. And Israel is also metaphorically the church. I was thinking it's almost pornographic, but for Christians. Then in the NT, Paul compares husbands to Jesus like wives to the church. So again, god is like a husband. The whole thing is so juvenile: it's like Fifty Shades of Grey, but for women and even (probably closeted) gay men who want to feel hot without feeling guilty. And not admit that they like all the creepy attention. "I don't like that I lost my job/my sister got cancer, but it's okay because Jesus's love for me is making him punish me!"

 

And this is off-topic, but the song made me want to laugh. "I am a tree, bending beneath the weight of his wind..." So God farted on your tree? tongue.png

 

Thoughts about the hot-princess Christian and Fifty Shades of Jesus? Or funny Christian songs.

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So God is supposed to be my father and my boyfriend - this always sounded really messed up.

 

Every time I heard that David Crowder song I Imagined the hurricane either ripping the tree up by its roots or breaking the top off. Violent storm == love just does not compute in my mind, ever.

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Then there was this song we used to sing at my old church. I don't know the title or the artist, but some of the lyrics went something like, "I'm within my father's arms, shouting out his name."

 

I imagined God wincing and saying "you don't have to yell, I'm right here." Or maybe He has a hearing problem.

 

People told me I took things too literally.

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I always hated that David Crowder song. The lyrics were just so damn complicated. They seemed to me like lyrics that should have stayed in someone's personal journal. I'm sure they had deep meaning for the author, but to the rest of us, they were just too WTF? And to make it even more irritating, all the sheeple at church would sing along passionately. The song was popular when my deconversion was in full swing, so I just wanted to slap them and say, "Stop singing passionately like you know what the fuck this stupid song means!"

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And then there's Amazing Grace:

Amazing grace how sweet the sound that saved a retch like me. I once was lost but now I'm found, was blind but now...I'm still blind.

 

My mom told me it was only a metaphor. But for a figure of speech to have any sort of shared meaning both parties have to understand the thing you're using as an analogy. Now I see: meaningless; try again. I would have appreciated a song more that compared salvation to the refreshed and awake feeling I get from a nice warm cup of gourmet coffee.

 

Then again, awakening is starting to feel more like deconversion.

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Haha, Voyager. They're mad you popped their balloon. Honestly, when it comes to contemporary Christian music, I think they just write whatever comes into their heads and don't care how cheesy it sounds as long as they're "praising gawd."

 

And yeah, I always got the weird feeling that we were supposed to having a metaphorically sexual ("intimate," hehe) relationship with god.

 

Aiyana: Wow, really? I thought you would have loved that Crowder song. It's so dramatic and "I'm god's princess!"-y. I see what you mean, though. I never really understood how lyrics written by someone else applied to the general body of Christians. Have you heard that Matt Redman one: "I'm coming back to the heart of worship, and it's all about you, it's all about you Jesus. I'm sorry Lord for the thing I've made it, when it's all about you. . ." etc. But what if other Christians weren't making worship a "thing"? What if they really were invested in it? Redman's personal experiences don't necessarily apply to others; there's no need to make them feel guilty and apologize. And if they're singing something that has nothing to do with them, they're just repeating words instead of worshipping, which is what the song is apologizing for.

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Christianity is a substitute for the worth and intelligence that we would otherwise apply to our own lives.  We would otherwise apply intelligence to jobs and relationships that would be enriching and fulfilling, but instead we can stop all growth and short-circuit the process with a ready-made substitute.  There is an intimacy that we could develop with fellow humans close at hand -- our siblings, our neighbors, etc -- but rather than do that, we can stick our nose into a book and be enveloped by the warm, oozing "luv" of Yahweh who stands ready to lay infinite curses or blessings upon us.

 

 I suppose it works for them, otherwise they wouldn't do it.  I do think it comes at a cost for the rest of us, who lose out on the benefit of their companionship, their effort at meeting me half-way, instead of them meeting their non-existent God half-way.  If the emotional needs of all of those teenagers in high school weren't being met by the Justin-Bieber-like Jesus, then maybe I would have been able to have a little more romance in high school.

 

jesus.jpg.CROP.promovar-mediumlarge.jpg

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Haha... nope, I couldn't stand that song. I liked a lot of Hillsong, Chris Tomlin, Jeremy Camp (I still don't mind Jeremy Camp, he has a really nice voice, and some of his songs that aren't too Christianese I still like). Yeah I've heard the Matt Redman one you're talking about. I had the Michael W. Smith version.

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The most Jesus-is-my-boyfriend song I have ever heard (and yes, I did like it), is Crystal Clear, by Jaci Velasquez. Let's see if I still know it by heart.

 

When I'm a sparrow in winter,

You are a seed I find.

When I'm a heart with a splinter,

Your heartblood keeps me alive.

If I could call you a color,

You'd be the deepest of blues.

If I had my pleasure of anything,

You'd be the one that I'd choose.

Now it's crystal clear, I'm falling for you...

Now that I can see the mysteries revealed.

Now I'm coming clean, I can feel my fears release...

Now it's crystal clear, I'm falling for you...

I'm soft... like clay... your hands, they mold me...

For you, I would run away...

Just to hear you calling out my name...

 

Song still kinda triggers me, not gonna lie.

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Have you heard of the cult "The Family International", AKA "Children of God"? It is the cult Joaquin and River Phoenix grew up in. Their members were encouraged to practice what they called "Loving Jesus". Women were to picture having intercourse with Jesus, and men were to picture themselves as women, also having intercourse with Jesus.

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Oh god. That really shouldn't surprise me, as insane as it is. Of course the men had to picture themselves as women. . . it would have been gay otherwise. Lol. Though I'm sure many Christians would find that blasphemous--not because it's creepy; just because Jesus must not be thought of as sexual. I think I might have wondered when I was a kid whether Jesus ever jacked off.

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I'm very glad that my Christian experience involved a very dour, drab, staid, traditionalist sort of fundamentalism.  Whilst there was a lot of rubbish talked about the love of god, at least I didn't have to put up with songs like those quoted above - I would not have been able to keep my Sunday lunch down if I'd had to listen to that...

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Really? I tend to think of Christians as being wishy-washy about god and talking about being wrapped in the heart of Jesus because he is their lover and whatever.

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I must point out that you failed to mention the section of lyrics that I think most accurately proves your point:

 

We are His portion and He is our prize
Drawn to redemption by the grace in his eyes
If grace is an ocean, we're all sinking (ha ha)
So heaven meets earth like a sloppy wet kiss
And my heart turns violently inside of my chest
I don't have time to maintain these regrets
when I think about the way
He loves us
 
And yes, there is a version of the song that ACTUALLY says sloppy wet kiss......
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We had complaints about one lady in our congregation that sounded like she was having orgasms when she'd "get the spirit". It really is a substitute for some, and church is like group wanking.

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Oh gosh CynicalGoat, I didn't believe you at first, but I found the original version by John Mark McMillan, whose lyrics have the "sloppy wet kiss." Nom nom nom.

 

Fuego: Wow. . . wow. Do Christians actually get turned on by that?

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They'd never admit it, but sure some do. Back in the day a friend wanted to loan me a copy of Hillsongs videos. I told her I preferred the audio. I didn't tell her that by pausing the video at certain places the gorgeous women looked like they were in ecstasy, perfect wanking material for a male believer deprived of porn. So not all of us complained about the orgasmic "spirit"...

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I'm very glad that my Christian experience involved a very dour, drab, staid, traditionalist sort of fundamentalism.  Whilst there was a lot of rubbish talked about the love of god, at least I didn't have to put up with songs like those quoted above - I would not have been able to keep my Sunday lunch down if I'd had to listen to that...

I had the same experience Ellinas. The old southern baptists would have really frowned on this type of behavior in a church. Is it wasn't out of a hymnal it was not to be sung in church.

 

What branches of Christianity sings songs like this? My parents Church of Christ or Freewill Baptist churches never did this. Is it a newer generation thing? The songs I was use to was Rock of Ages(not Def Leppard), Old Rugged Cross, and Others like that. Most of the songs I heard sounded like Death Tributes. lol

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It would be more common in more charasmatic denominations. Assembly of God, Four Square, even some more mainstream Baptist.

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Yeah, I went to Assemblies/Foursquare churches, but I also heard this type of stuff at interdenominational gatherings (like Women of Faith), and these songs were also very popular on Christian radio.

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From reading your replies, it sounds like my parents' church is a strange combination of modern/charismatic and traditionalist. It's called the Christian and Missionary Alliance; I don't think it's very well-known. They're into taking the bible literally except when it's inconvenient (divorce is generally sinful, but prayer headdresses were a "cultural thing"), marriage roles, etc., and the congregation is mostly seniors. I'm thankful they never did any falling on the floor and speaking in tongues. But they have Vacation Bible School every summer, which consists of bible story-time, crafts, and a "bible times" cardboard setup, and which used to be for 3- to 14-year-olds. *cringe* They have since lowered the maximum age to 11. They do a mix of hymns and contemporary Christian stuff, I suppose to appeal to various age groups. This was uncharacteristic of the services, but one time a minister was praying with one hand raised and began bawling. I understood that he was emotional about god, but my friend and I must have been 13 or 14, so we were smirking at each other and struggling so hard not to laugh. Religious as I was at one point, displays like that--raised hands, swaying, yelling "Yes Jesus" and the like--always made me uncomfortable and I honestly thought it was showing off or just a lack of self-control. They love to be on fire for god, of course.

 

Aiyana: I read a bit about the song in the OP and you are right, it's very personal. The author wrote it after his friend's death as a reminder of god's love. It made me think, he couldn't just write a song about his friend? He had to make it about god--really?? I might be wrong and he did write one just for the friend, but it fits the mindset of "glorify god in everything you do, praise him no matter what". Obviously if his friend died, it's all okay because of gawd's luvvvvvvvv.

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Sounds like Evangelical Free Churches around my parts. They do stuff like that a lot too.

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Hmm. I didn't know that about the song. I think it actually makes a bit more sense, now. Before it was just pure WTFuckery.

 

Yeah, at my old church, the worship pastor would sometimes stop in the middle of worship and basically coerce people into being more demonstrative. It was quite guilt-trippy. If you WEREN'T raising your hands-crying out-standing to your feet, then YOU (according to the pastor) were "holding back", "not giving your whole heart", blah blah blah. It's like, what if you're just a reserved person?

 

And those types of people, too, would talk shit about Catholic-Lutheran-Episcopal type churches. You know, liturgical churches, where people acted reverent and dignified. According to charismatics, they aren't reverent and dignified, they're "spiritually dead".

 

It's all so elitist.

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Jesus Christ, that pastor's a douchebag. Smite him, Jesus.

 

Of course they talked smack about other churches. Have you seen Jesus Camp? It's a documentary about kids at a religious summer program. This reminds me of a scene where a nine-year-old girl from some kind of Evangelical and charismatic church was telling the filmmakers that churches where people sing hymns instead of jumping around and yelling were "dead churches," unlike her church, which was alive and pleased god. It's so superficial. How do they know what is going on in other people's minds and spiritual lives? What happened to judging others being a sin?

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I'm very glad that my Christian experience involved a very dour, drab, staid, traditionalist sort of fundamentalism.  Whilst there was a lot of rubbish talked about the love of god, at least I didn't have to put up with songs like those quoted above - I would not have been able to keep my Sunday lunch down if I'd had to listen to that...

I had the same experience Ellinas. The old southern baptists would have really frowned on this type of behavior in a church. Is it wasn't out of a hymnal it was not to be sung in church.

 

What branches of Christianity sings songs like this? My parents Church of Christ or Freewill Baptist churches never did this. Is it a newer generation thing? The songs I was use to was Rock of Ages(not Def Leppard), Old Rugged Cross, and Others like that. Most of the songs I heard sounded like Death Tributes. lol

 

I, too, am now very happy I was raised in a stodgy Methodist church where emotional outbursts did not happen, and if they were to have happened, everybody would have politely averted their eyes until the outburst (someone raising their arms or yelling "Praise Jesus!") stopped, and it never would have been mentioned again.

 

I accidentally heard part of a new xian song on the radio the other day while flipping stations, and the line, something like, "Jesus gives me peace, gives me sweet release," made me stare at my radio and think, "WTF!!!"  I am a person with an unnaturally relaxed attitude towards sex, and in no way consider sex dirty, but that line totally did me in.  I never ever ever want "sweet  release" with Jesus, never ever ever want to think about it or consider it, and that stupid ass song put it in my head.  

 

"Sweet release" with the Jesus character is in no way sexy.  Not even in my most obscene thoughts.

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