Lilith666 Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 Today while I was putting recyclable paper in the bin to go to the dump, I came across pages torn out of a book that I had read part of awhile ago, and recognized as one from our bookshelf. There were a bunch of other torn, binding-less pages from the same book. I then found the cover and first few pages of one of my own books. Given that my fundy mother bought a Koran just to tear it to pieces because it's supposedly anti-Jesus, my first thought was that because the first book has lesbian sex in it and the second is about a transsexual person, she had decided to rip them up. The book that belonged to me has been in my room ever since my aunt gave it to me (as far as I know, she doesn't know this). I would never have knowingly taken it outside my room, out of fear that my parents might find it and have a Jesuseizure, so I don't believe she mistook it for one of her legion of books that she buys on impulse without reading. I was also 16 when I got it and had less autonomy then. The minute I got a chance, I confronted my mom to ask if she had torn them up. Her response was that she did it to recycle them, never mind that you can toss a book in the paper bin without mauling it. I asked if her behavior was about the gay and trans people. Silence and stare from her, like an admission. I continued to blaze about how I never would intentionally damage her bible, and she was never to touch any of my property like that ever again. She yelled down the stairs as she walked away, "I shouldn't have done that, it was not a good decision!" She was leaving on one of her social events, and can't be bothered to listen to anyone during that time. Mom yelled (down the stairs, again, instead of talking to me) "Do you forgive me?" I replied that we will talk about it later. I didn't get the impression that she truly understood why I was upset, or cared enough to apologize and risk being a few minutes late for her event. Purposely damaging books because you have a problem with them is something that gets to me. I have always loved to read, and it's a joke between my parents and me how much of a book person I am. I have a certain reverence even for the ones I dislike. (Nerds will understand.) And all art, really: films, paintings--anything creative. If you don't like something, at least give it away and let someone else enjoy it. Your opinion doesn't mean that something is bad; it's just your subjective opinion and it doesn't give you the right to take away things that other people may benefit from. Wrecking things doesn't even change anyone's mind. It's just an immature outlet for anger. I wish my mother would have some respect for the effort that someone put into something, even if she doesn't respect the idea behind it. Besides that my mother wrecked something of mine, when she knows how I love what she ripped into, I was also shocked by her attitude. I'm gay and have been hoping ever since I realized my sexual orientation that my parents would accept me as I am. I tend to think of my mom as more tolerant than my father is. She doesn't advocate killing people who are gay or hating them, but she does believe that people become gay when they have a "sinful" nature or willfully want to rebel against biblegod. Even though I knew this, I wasn't expecting the anger that she took out on the books. My mom has always been a little less ferociously Christian than Dad, and sometimes I even thought she might change her mind. I don't understand how she could be so hateful. I tore up my bible in a fit of frustration and anger after Mom said she would think god was right and the bible is perfect no matter what's in it. We had been discussing god's OT orders to rape and murder non-Israelites. I ripped the pages out, wrote on them with marker, and planned to burn them in a bonfire as soon as I got a chance. That was wrong. I didn't realize then that the bible is just a collection of writings over many centuries, that church leaders decided whether books went in the bible or not, and that the Old and New Testament have some good advice, even beautiful poetry. There are good as well as bad things in it. There's no reason to destroy it because you don't like Christianity. She will be gone for three nights on her trip, so I have some time to cool off and think about what I'm going to say. I'm not sure yet. There is the remote possibility that she somehow found my book outside my room and mistook it for one of hers. I just don't want to assume the worst--that she knew it was mine and destroyed it anyway--and then jump on her when she comes back. I think I'll do something like asking where she found it, if she knew it belonged to me, and if so, why she disrespected my property, and therefore, me, like that. As for the other book, I'll try to explain that it's wrong to wreck something because you disagree with it and that it shows contempt for the person who made it. I won't say this, but only cowards do that sort of thing. They do it because the ideas they're afraid of might find their way to someone else, and then the destroyer will be uncomfortable when fewer people think like he or she does. I can't think what was going through her mind, except a blind indignation and wanting to defend this all-powerful god of hers. And after thinking all this, I'm not even sure that I will make a dent or that she will even listen. Mom has a tendency to be on her phone and/or computer a lot, even in conversation, so it's sometimes hard to say anything and get a response that isn't a distracted "Ummmmm..." or very delayed. Mom also can get very defensive and snap/yell at people to "stop going on about it." Well, at least if I make it clear that damaging my property is not okay and if she never does it again, I'll have made progress. *sigh* 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdelsolray Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 When you are older, and have a decade or two away from your parents, the immediacy of the situation(s) and your overall perspective will be different. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilith666 Posted July 26, 2015 Author Share Posted July 26, 2015 I will feel the same about people who think ripping up other people's things, or anything they disagree with, in a fit of anger is a good way to express themselves. I realize that my mother was probably concerned about my being drawn away from god by worldly things. That doesn't excuse her acting that way, and I'm disappointed that she did and then threw out a hasty Band-Aid instead of bringing it up before I found it and saying "I'm sorry; I shouldn't have done that." My being young doesn't have much to do with it. By "you" I mean people in general, not just my mother. This reminds me of One Million Moms, who try to get media canceled or sanitized if they are "satanic" or promote the homosexual agenda. "I don't like it, so no one should have it." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 I was hoping to hear a follow up in which your mother thought it over and had something better to say. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilith666 Posted July 26, 2015 Author Share Posted July 26, 2015 Mom gets very intensely involved in trip preparations and is distracted or cranky when talked to. She's coming back from her trip on Tuesday. We'll talk then. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will02 Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 Purposely damaging books because you have a problem with them is something that gets to me. I have always loved to read, and it's a joke between my parents and me how much of a book person I am. I have a certain reverence even for the ones I dislike. (Nerds will understand.) And all art, really: films, paintings--anything creative. If you don't like something, at least give it away and let someone else enjoy it. Your opinion doesn't mean that something is bad; it's just your subjective opinion and it doesn't give you the right to take away things that other people may benefit from. Wrecking things doesn't even change anyone's mind. It's just an immature outlet for anger. I totally agree. For me, even throwing a book away intact is crossing the line. Books don't exist to be burned or thrown out. Back when I deconverted, I tried to get rid of all the xian books I had somehow accumulated over the years. I just couldn't do it, even with those books being what they are. I'll never read them again but I stilI have them stashed away somewhere, where they will stay until someone I know has a yard sale and I can push the whole lot off on them as extra stuff to get rid of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilith666 Posted July 26, 2015 Author Share Posted July 26, 2015 I had to toss out Wuthering Heights when it got moldy from water. It was heartbreaking. Fortunately, I have another copy. It's a little hard to imagine what you feel in regards to your old evangelism books, but I guess those are like people you don't like: you might not enjoy their company, but it doesn't mean you want to punch them in the face. And it makes sense, if you had gotten attached to them. I found some Bible Answers book by Hank Hanegraaff after discovering the gutted books. It's one of those dishonest "the bible is great but evolution is cruel" things, with a whole bunch of the other usual fundy crap. I told it that it didn't deserve to live, and thought that a revenge killing would be fun. *muahahaha* Seriously though. I would never do that, because it would be hypocritical. And I don't think most people take your stance on not throwing them away. That's admirable. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casey Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 I keep all my books. I am fortunate to have a second hand bookstore in town here, where I can exchange books, but I seldom do that. It is amazing, sometimes I have been idly wandering by the place, gone in, and found something I've wanted for a while. Mostly that's history or military stuff. Sometimes I even read Xtian books, although not very often. I've not yet destroyed one, but I will admit to throwing the odd one against a wall in sheer frustration with the BS contained within it. The last Xtian one I read was a drunkalog by some blasted South African former alky and AA member before he found the long lost Jesus who, he says, finally got him off the demon rum after a long drunken Odyssey which included a stint in the local rat house. Personally I think he just finally made up his tiny bloody mind to quit drinkin' but what would I know ... He tells a story of how, when he'd been dry for some time he drank a beer by accident but Jesus the merciful saw to it he didn't relapse into being an alky. Funny he should say that; I found after I'd been away from grog for a while that I can knock back one or two beers myself and not relapse. Hell I can knock off a bottle of whisky three times a year and not relapse into destructive drinking, but it's no miracle, it's something called "growing up." But I digress. Keeping one's books can be useful. I was watching TV earlier this evening, watching a show narrated by a former Brit officer whose name was familiar. I checked through my books and sure enough, there he was. I am reading his story again, it's a fascinating one. It will make a change from Bill Bryson whose "At Home" I'm also reading again for the nth time. Lilith, you might tell your mother she is rather like a legendary Caliph of Islam, Ali I think he was, who said in justification of his wanton destruction of books that if something wasn't in the Koran, mankind surely had no need of it. How Christian of the fellow! Casey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellinas Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 Your mother's act was one of criminal damage (or, in all likelihood, whatever is the equivalent under the law of wherever you are) Personally, I would demand that she compensate me by buying replacement volumes, and point out that committing a crime is not actually approved Christian behaviour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilith666 Posted July 26, 2015 Author Share Posted July 26, 2015 Ellinas: The book was only worth about $18. I have considered asking her to pay me back, but she might say she's done that already in advance by paying for part of my college tuition, as well as food, clothes, everything else. But I feel that agreeing to do something for somebody doesn't entitle one to take something else from that person. I agree with you that taking my property, wrecking it, and throwing it in the trash was equivalent to stealing. It's sad enough that she would ruin her own belongings, but mine are a different story. I would feel differently if Mom had said, "I tore apart your book and I'm sorry. I'll pay you back." But all I got was "I shouldn't have done that" shouted at me from upstairs, after I had discovered it. I just can't believe that my mother would do that. My dad is more Fundy than she is and I don't believe he would do something similar. It's just so childish and ignorant. Casey: You know, she might just say she believes that all you need is the bible, so I don't know how much of an impression it would make. But pointing out that the guy was Muslim...hmmm... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 Sounds like you will be better off compromising to get along for a while and then when you graduate go ahead and live your life for yourself. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilith666 Posted July 26, 2015 Author Share Posted July 26, 2015 Not sure what you mean by "compromising," mm. I'm still going to read what I want and not buy or check out a library book because she might find it. If she takes something of mine or damages it again, I'm not sure exactly what I'll do, but there's going to be a problem. I already live my own life at school, several hours away from home. Reminds me of the time I checked out something called Beautiful Darkness, with a suspiciously Satanic-looking black cover and some mystical twisty purple designs. Of course they lectured me about that, as if I cared what their religion thinks about "darkness." It was cute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 Not sure what you mean by "compromising," mm. I mean choose your battles and don't go out of your way to rock the boat. I'm not suggesting that you remain silent when your mom destroys your personal property but it is not in your best interests to drive a wedge. Really this is the standard advise I give to college students with Christian parents. Let your folks give you the degree you need to succeed and then afterwards you can do what you want. It is up to you how much or how little you let them in your life when you are finally on your own but you will have to put up wish some crap in order to get there. I have fundie relatives too so I can relate. I really do hope your mom thinks about what she did and decides to give you an apology or at least a better explanation. It would be even better if she respects your property in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilith666 Posted July 26, 2015 Author Share Posted July 26, 2015 Yes, I used to "rock the boat" when I was younger (15 or so, lol) but now I'm staying quiet about religion, for the most part, and my sexuality until I'm on my own and paying for myself. I steer clear of God stuff except to let them know I'm not interested in being Christian, if that comes up. They don't like it, but it hasn't been a major issue for awhile. I feel bad occasionally, because it seems like I'm trying to get all the money I can out of them, but they decided to be anti-gay/anti-nonChristian and I didn't make them. Respecting my property is a must, without which apologies or explanations (there is no acceptable explanation) mean nothing. Doesn't matter that she's my mother. She didn't buy it for me, and I would never intentionally damage something of hers, no matter how I felt about it. We'll move on, and stay that way if it doesn't happen again. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stamps1962 Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 Destroying stuff that is 'bad' is just part of their mental disorder. Several years ago I was sort of interested in New age stuff, astrology and so on. I used to on occasion buy a copy of 'Fate' magazine at Barnes and Noble- it was a digest size publication about paranormal things, lots of interesting ads. I was working out on a regular basis at the local YMCA, I knew a lot of fundies hung out there because i had to tell a few to get lost when they tried to push their religion. Anyway one day I had been on a treadmill reading a copy of the magazine. I went of and forgot I'd left it on the machine, then returned to get it, was not gone more than a couple minutes- it was nowhere to be found. On a hunch I searched a big trash can and there it was- torn into three pieces, it looked like someone vented a lot of anger doing it. Nothing I could do of course but I had to wonder how easily whoever did this would do the same to my body if they could. My fundy dad used to have to pick up our mail at a local post office and more than once I figured out he threw away some stuff I got. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilith666 Posted July 26, 2015 Author Share Posted July 26, 2015 Wow, Stamps. That's ridiculous. I don't understand how anyone could think it's okay to mess with something they know isn't theirs, because it pisses them off. Did you ever ask your dad about your mail? You have a good point that it's just part of the Fundy mentality, especially if they were raised in it and grew up believing in that "god entitles me" thing. They act the same way about marriage and unbelievers. My mom's mother apparently used to do things like that, so it may be coming at least partly from there. At the same time, I think people who do that already have some issues and a sense that they should be able to make something go away if they don't like it. Fundyism just makes it worse by justifying it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilith666 Posted July 27, 2015 Author Share Posted July 27, 2015 Burnedout: Not at this point. We'll have a discussion, I'll find out for sure if she knew it was mine, and if so, we will come to the understanding that each of us will not cross such boundaries. I'm just so surprised at her display of anger and apparent thoughtlessness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilith666 Posted July 29, 2015 Author Share Posted July 29, 2015 Update: Finally had that conversation with my mother after she came back from a trip today. She said she found my book in the storage room/part-library and thought I was ready to give it away, since I hadn't taken it to college. She knew it was mine, but thought I hadn't wanted it. (I didn't like it that much. I just don't want anyone messing with my stuff because I have better things to do with them than trash them.) She said she shouldn't have torn it up. Mom responded with an obvious eye-roll when I asked that she pay me back for the cost, though I said I would not demand that she do so, because she is already paying for college/rent/necessities such as food. I just said that if I had ruined something of hers, I would reimburse her. Don't know whether she will or not, but I'm not planning to pursue that. I just think it would be the right thing to do. Way to go, Mom. Good job being an ambassador for Jesus--displaying your hatred and unbridled anger by wrecking something you knew was mine, which you assumed I didn't want anymore, because you didn't like it. How very Christ-like of you. And dismissing me when I explained why it wasn't okay in order to set boundaries, because you so courteously shouted an apology from up the stairs after having cut me off because you were in a hurry. And then giving me a demeaning and derisive, blatant eye-roll when I asked that you pay me back for my belonging that you tore up. That is a great way to endear your religion to me. You are truly just like Jesus. Congratulations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EyesOpened Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 Update: Finally had that conversation with my mother after she came back from a trip today. She said she found my book in the storage room/part-library and thought I was ready to give it away, since I hadn't taken it to college. She knew it was mine, but thought I hadn't wanted it. (I didn't like it that much. I just don't want anyone messing with my stuff because I have better things to do with them than trash them.) She said she shouldn't have torn it up. Mom responded with an obvious eye-roll when I asked that she pay me back for the cost, though I said I would not demand that she do so, because she is already paying for college/rent/necessities such as food. I just said that if I had ruined something of hers, I would reimburse her. Don't know whether she will or not, but I'm not planning to pursue that. I just think it would be the right thing to do. Way to go, Mom. Good job being an ambassador for Jesus--displaying your hatred and unbridled anger by wrecking something you knew was mine, which you assumed I didn't want anymore, because you didn't like it. How very Christ-like of you. And dismissing me when I explained why it wasn't okay in order to set boundaries, because you so courteously shouted an apology from up the stairs after having cut me off because you were in a hurry. And then giving me a demeaning and derisive, blatant eye-roll when I asked that you pay me back for my belonging that you tore up. That is a great way to endear your religion to me. You are truly just like Jesus. Congratulations. I think the money or reimbursement is less important than you guys coming to an understanding of having more respect for each others property. That is where i would probably focus my energy on settling this. Just my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilith666 Posted July 29, 2015 Author Share Posted July 29, 2015 As I said, I won't demand that she pay me back because of everything else she does. And her reaction to that suggestion bothered me the most. Big raised eyes to the sky like "What a stupid thing to say." I thought Christians were supposed to be holy and self-effacing and not have displays of rage that they later minimize. My mother does that: one time she started yelling at my dad and me in a restaurant, started crying, and stormed out. I'm saying it's not the first time and I realize I can't change her but her emotional thing going on and not acting too much like she really understood that it wasn't cool in spite of repeating that she did. Actions speak louder than words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amateur Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 "Actions speak louder than words." So true. And I'm so sorry and appalled that anybody would rip up a book. That's tragic to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilith666 Posted July 29, 2015 Author Share Posted July 29, 2015 Thanks, amateur. I really can't stand people who ruin or ban something because it doesn't appeal to them, whether it's a book or other art form or anything else. They claim it's because the thing they don't like is immoral or harmful, but really it's because that thing makes them uncomfortable. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amateur Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 Thanks, amateur. I really can't stand people who ruin or ban something because it doesn't appeal to them, whether it's a book or other art form or anything else. They claim it's because the thing they don't like is immoral or harmful, but really it's because that thing makes them uncomfortable. I agree 100%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
traveller2 Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 Double post from phone.grrr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
traveller2 Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 To be honest I garbage bagged all my christian books after I deconverted.I did rip up a few of the more problematic ones.the expensive ones I sold to christians. Ripping up someone else's property is shit and invasive.I actually did that once when I was a christian.I was a complete dick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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