Voice Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 A couple months ago I opened conversation again with a long time friend from high school (I'm 52 now). In our early twenties, when I was a fanatical christian, he and I were housemates, both christians. He was there when I began my de-conversion. Turns out he's still a christian, and not just a christian, but a blazing ember of christianity blinded christianity, 100% closed off to anything and everything not christian. In our recent conversations I made attempts to share with him the events of my de-conversion, how I've grown as a person, but he proceeded to lay eternal judgement on me. I offered common grounds, things we could talk about without arguing religion, but ultimately he severed communications saying that until I returned to Christ, he couldn't be a part of the lies which I follow. He brought up a few biblical quotes the the one he didn't bring up which resonated with me was 'don't cast your pearls before swine lest they cast them underfoot and turn and tear you in pieces.' Casting pearls is exactly what I did, and tearing me in pieces is exactly what he did. I so should have known better. It was all a bit distressing. It brought back so many memories of when I thought and lived exactly as he does, how impossible it was for me to empathize with non-christians, how I used to beat people with doctrine when they were down, how I lived inside a bubble and couldn't see the circumference of it, or even knew I was in one. I can't even imagine what it must be like for those of you who live in the same houses with people like this. The perpetual judgement and getting beaten down, the absence of appreciation for any aspect of your person, the vacant smiles after they verbally abuse you. I'm so sorry. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amateur Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 I'm the same age, and it amazes me when I meet people I haven't seen in decades and find they're still in the same place mentally. How is that possible? How can you live decades of an adult life, with all the ups and downs, and various good times and tragedies, and not change some of your ideas from high school? And I completely agree with your last paragraph. I never dealt with this in my family, but when I worked as a caregiver for elderly people some of them would act that way with their children ("children" being in their 50's). It was horrible to see. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdelsolray Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 Treat the fact he doesn't want to further engage with you as a simple solution. If you want to be snarky you could send him a written message something like, "Hey [name], thanks for choosing to have nothing to do with me anymore. It saves me from having to make the same reciprocal choice." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilith666 Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 With a Christian like that, there is absolutely no point in bringing up what de-conversion has done for you. It would be like him telling you about the wonders Jesus has done in his life: You have set up your brain not to believe anything he says, and so no one gets anywhere. I am sorry that you are going through this with your friend. But having been in the cult, you understand how hard it is for him to stop thinking that way. It must be so frustrating to have had him say what he did; I haven't been through quite the same thing myself. Hugs to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EyesOpened Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 A couple months ago I opened conversation again with a long time friend from high school (I'm 52 now). In our early twenties, when I was a fanatical christian, he and I were housemates, both christians. He was there when I began my de-conversion. Turns out he's still a christian, and not just a christian, but a blazing ember of christianity blinded christianity, 100% closed off to anything and everything not christian. In our recent conversations I made attempts to share with him the events of my de-conversion, how I've grown as a person, but he proceeded to lay eternal judgement on me. I offered common grounds, things we could talk about without arguing religion, but ultimately he severed communications saying that until I returned to Christ, he couldn't be a part of the lies which I follow. He brought up a few biblical quotes the the one he didn't bring up which resonated with me was 'don't cast your pearls before swine lest they cast them underfoot and turn and tear you in pieces.' Casting pearls is exactly what I did, and tearing me in pieces is exactly what he did. I so should have known better. It was all a bit distressing. It brought back so many memories of when I thought and lived exactly as he does, how impossible it was for me to empathize with non-christians, how I used to beat people with doctrine when they were down, how I lived inside a bubble and couldn't see the circumference of it, or even knew I was in one. I can't even imagine what it must be like for those of you who live in the same houses with people like this. The perpetual judgement and getting beaten down, the absence of appreciation for any aspect of your person, the vacant smiles after they verbally abuse you. I'm so sorry. Sorry to hear this. Must be hard to have clousure on a long time friendship this way. I don't think Christians realize that many of them do many thinks the Bible tells them not to do, such as, "pass judgement, be cynical, hateful, critical and many other actions which the bible is very much against". This just makes me see how much of a fluke this religion is. Sorry again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice Posted August 18, 2015 Author Share Posted August 18, 2015 You know what, he's still writing and so am I. He believes God and christianity are one, as I would expect, as a huge percentage of christians believe. All along I've been pressing the idea that God and christianity are not one. That God is separate from christianity. He doesn't get it. Another thing, he knows about ex-christian.net, and I told him my username here. He knew about this site before we started talking again. I'm sure he believes it's of the devil. He probably doesn't come here, but there's a slim chance he's found this thread, or will. lol... Hello my friend. Meet my friends. We don't all agree, but we get along. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geezer Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 Stories like this are common & I experienced it too. We developed a close & intimate friendship with a couple we met at church. They had recently moved into the area. We quickly became golf buddies & joined a country club together. Our wives didn't play but rode around in a separate cart with us while we played. We took vacations together & bought NBA season tickets together. That was the closest friendship we ever had. We both served as leaders in our congregation. I taught bible classes for years & so did he. Sometime around the late 90's I began to develope doubts about some of our teaching & traditions. I confessed my doubts to my best friend & discovered he had similar doubts about some of our doctrines. My doubts about our doctrines & traditions continued to grow & eventually my doubts began to focus on the bible itself. The time eventually came when I resigned from leadership & made the decision to leave the Church of Christ. He came to my office & officially ended our friendship. That was in 2005. We have had virtually no communication since then. A couple of months ago I received an email from him about abortion. I immediately realized he'd sent it to me in error. I ignored it for a couple of weeks but eventually decided to respond. He ended or friendship because I'd left the Church of Christ (the only true Church). He assumed we were still attending an independent church - a sin in his eyes. I decided to bring him up to date by telling him I'd left religion altogether & was no longer a believer. He didn't seem surprised & offered some reasons for me to rethink my decision to leave the faith. I responded by sending him a long list of reasons why the bible isn't true. He never responded & I understood why. There is no way we could ever be friends again & we both know that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bdp Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 I'm also 52; when I opened my facebook account, as an ex-Christian, I actively sought out friends from my Christian past and I don't think I've found a single one yet who is now an ex-Christian. I know of one who might be but I'm not able to contact her. It's astounding because I know many of these people are smart enough to see it if they'd open their eyes and look objectively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice Posted August 19, 2015 Author Share Posted August 19, 2015 bdp, I get it. It's a paradox kind of, how those of intelligence can be swallowed into so tiny a box and not even know they're in it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice Posted August 22, 2015 Author Share Posted August 22, 2015 I'm pretty much finished with this man. It's not my place to judge his christian soul, but it sure pleases him to judge my ex-christian soul. Holy crap! I made the mistake of trying to impart spiritual insight to him. Good stuff too. But because I don't recognize the bible as the absolute authority in spiritual matters, everything I said to him was because I follow a false Jesus, because my spirit is sick, because I'm lost and confused and following lies, and will be judged on judgement day. How about today, buddy. It's your job to judge me today, and you're doing great. Last night I conceded that he and I cannot communicate. This morning I wrote a short, one-sentence non-reply to his most recent condemning email. He's locked in his box, a box my big toe won't even fit into any more. He's terrified of what lies outside that box. To him it's nothing less than eternal damnation. I think I learned a few things through this, things like what not to say to a fundamentalist christian unless you want to invoke their wrath. I learned it's not good to try sharing valuable spiritual insight with them. I learned it's pointless to try pointing out the flaws and ridiculousness of the one book they believe exists on this planet. They only judge you for it and endeavor to make your life miserable. It all refreshed my relief, the peace I found leaving christianity. I used to be just like him. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdelsolray Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 ... I used to be just like him. And now you are not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Margee Posted August 22, 2015 Moderator Share Posted August 22, 2015 It's best he's out of your life Voice. My fundy friends think I am on the devils side and he has me blinded. We were taught, when I was very involved with the church to try and help non believers turn and accept jesus and if they did not....not to be in company with them. I'm so sorry and I empathize because I also lost what I thought were really good friends. It hurts. ((hug)). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blood Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 Religion wastes away the mind. It's a virus that most people cannot fight back against. Your friend is a one of the droves of the walking dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCM Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 I can't even imagine what it must be like for those of you who live in the same houses with people like this. The perpetual judgement and getting beaten down, the absence of appreciation for any aspect of your person, the vacant smiles after they verbally abuse you. I'm so sorry. Thankyou for putting words to express the situation. I had this happen with my brother who lived in the same house at the time. I cut off contact and refused to speak to him (not amazingly mature but hey) living in the same house for a year then left home at 17. about 4/5 years later I still don't speak to him and don't regret it for a second. when I rarely see him he hasn't had even a second's worth of mental progress since then. it's incredible. most people in my family think I went crazy or took it too far for too long, or that I am the aggressor, but I made the decision that was right for me, not someone else (probably my first one). at that point there is no relationship, there's just an uphill battle every time I want to do something liberal/adventurous or explore other ways of looking at things, or any kind of fun fullstop. when you let slip that you even sympathize with non-believers or even certain other types of christians, every single thing you say is automatically a lie and you are completely dismissed. And don't get me started on their fake-nice smiles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice Posted August 24, 2015 Author Share Posted August 24, 2015 SCM, it may not be relevant to your situation or it may, but my brother did the same thing to me when I was a christian and it was a turning point for me, one of several important influences that helped bring me out. Keep doing what you're doing. Don't think you're being selfish. We all have to protect ourselves and let go the lost. I'm still reeling after last writing to my lost friend last week. Just talking with him was a mind fuck. I thought I was stronger after having been de-converted for 27 years now and continually growing stronger in my spirituality. Never try to share spiritual insight with a person like this, ever. It's casting pearls before swine. They trample them underfoot and turn to tear you in pieces. If I may quote his one and only book. I'm so glad to have you people to turn to. When I de-converted the Internet didn't exist. It was a difficult, lonely experience spent homeless in the wilderness. I told him that too. He trampled it underfoot and said the experience wasn't of God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCM Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 "casting your pearls before swine" not that I'd call them pigs, its a quote but the same does happen with my more moderate friends -if you announce some opinion or insight and identify it as coming from an atheist/ex-c viewpoint, they agree with the point, but can't seem to assemble it into their existing worldview. so nowdays god happens to support my worldview and just so happens to be quite liberal and supporting of atheist/humanist ideas (i'm very ambiguously out as an ex-c to my friends) I am interested at how it's affected you so much after not seeing this friend for so long. seems like after 30 years he'd at least give you the time of day, not just ignore you. it sounds like when you knew him he was less fanatical, so hey there's progress at least (i'm sorry). christianity can hold people their entire lives apparently, which doesn't give me a whole lot of hope for the future, but at least it's having trouble spreading generationally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice Posted August 25, 2015 Author Share Posted August 25, 2015 SCM, he was a close friend back then, all the way back to 8th grade. I am also a friend of his older non-christian brother. I still haven't put my finger on what was so disturbing about the recent conversations other than that I shared way too much of my spirituality with him and he shot it all down and condemned me to judgement, to hell. He didn't value anything I said. He wrote last Friday a condemning email and I'd hoped to end it all with a simple reply, 'I understand how you feel.' That's all I wrote back. He wrote back again tonight wanting to argue contradictions in the old testament. I'd said a week ago the old testament contradicted itself. He said he can provide (biblical) evidence that there are no contradictions. I think he craves beating me down. I have no intention of responding. He should sign up here and argue with the expert members in the Lion's Den if he wants to argue that. I'm no expert, and I don't want to argue with him. He would only shoot me down. It seems to me that christians vent pent up anger and hatred on people like us. They feel justified doing so because we're condemned anyway from their point of view. They're less hateful (but still tend to be somewhat abusive) toward simple non-believers who have never been christian. But us? They have no mercy. They're fierce. Your friends sound to be more moderate and understanding than this man. He's hard core. The kind of christian who has difficulty talking about anything other than the lord. Thanks for responding SCM. I appreciate and value your feedback. Everyone's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burny Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 It sounds to me like he's scared shitless and trying to prove to himself that his religion is true when deep down he knows better... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice Posted August 25, 2015 Author Share Posted August 25, 2015 All christians are terrified of hell, though they are convinced they aren't. Fear of hell is built into christian doctrine. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
★ Citsonga ★ Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 All christians are terrified of hell, though they are convinced they aren't. Fear of hell is built into christian doctrine. Christian doctrine varies. Those whose doctrine holds that believers can't lose their salvation have no reason to fear hell, so many don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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