HolyGoat Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 On a whim I watched the documentaries by Louis Theroux on Westboro Baptist Church entitled The Most Hated Family in America and America's Most Hated Family in Crisis. The first was a general documentary about them, what they believed, and why they did the things they did. The second was a follow up, maybe five years later, about how the family was doing in spite of a number of high profile people leaving the church and the declining health of the patriarch Fred Phelps (who has since died). I found myself becoming fascinated with the family. Not the vile and despicable hate they spew, but the dichotomy between them being EXTREMELY nice and accommodating, even to Louis, an outsider who was obviously there to make them look bad. Perhaps even more inexplicable was how they treated one another. Sure, they are uber conservative, subjugate their women, etc. but they were incredibly close and incredibly loving to one another. Since those documentaries, two more Phelps have defected. Perhaps the most high profile yet. Megan and Grace, daughters of Shirley, the ring leader of the hateful protests, left about a year ago. Megan gave an interview with Sam Harris that was fantastic, which can be found here. Likewise, Megan wrote a statement here which is even more fantastic, perhaps the most fantastic of all. Finally, she and her sister have a blog called Gypsies & Sinners which contains some heartfelt and heart-breaking insights from the women. I have become emotionally invested in their story. It plays like a wonderful film which contains the heart break, joy and searching for truth and meaning, but it is all real, happening to real people. These are humans who have been hurt, but are now healing. Hearing how painful it is to be separated from their families, feeling the weight of their words, has moved me immensely. I don't really have much else to say but follow their story. It is one of the most human journeys I have come across in a long time and it is worth every minute. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fweethawt Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 The interview between Megan Phelps and Sam Harris really forced me to see that family in a different light. I finished it sincerely believing that Megan was one of the best people I've ever heard speak. She is a genuinely GOOD person. First chance I get, I will definitely read the statement to which you posted a link. I'm looking forward to it. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thrive Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 Thank you for the links, it sounds like you really connected with their story. Being raised in Utah I have this same facination with the FLDS and the stories of those who have escaped. It is easy to denounce it from the outside, but to hear what it is like to be raised in an enviornment like this eye opening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCM Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 I watched a documentary on youtube a couple of years back of a defector from westboro (I don't think it was a phelps, but I can't remember) and the showed two or three people stories from westboro and similar churches, It amazed me how these people who left their communities and got fully cut off, with little/no education or job history (women especially), it supprised me to see their enthusiasm and "zest" in recovering their lives back or making new ones with decent people and relationships who appreciated them. some went to considerably more liberal and positive churches and some quit altogether, but I loved seeing their "happy ending" as such and the look on their faces now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fweethawt Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 To listen to Megan you would never think she lacks an education. She's very intelligent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daffodil Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 Tried to watch the first one. Couldn't get past the beginning. Watching the second one now. The "show" the young women put on for the presenter was quite interesting. They were dressed and dancing in a way that I never would have thought a super conservative body of believers would ever allow. The music they're using (Lady Gaga, for instance) means they have to listen to that stuff in order to make a parody of it. One of the women used the word "ass". They dress conservatively in church, even covering the women's heads with scarves, but dress like any other American the rest of the time. They don't seem to be consistent! Most fundy types, like the Duggards, are pretty consistent in their rejection of all things secular, to the point that they're ignorant of the music, literature, etc. that the rest of us are familiar with. This family seems to have one foot in the fundy world and one in the secular world. I did not expect that at all! The cold-hearted shunning of former loved ones who have chosen a different path is sad, but not surprising. It is incredible that all it took for them to shun one girl was her basically just back-talking about a bikini! She didn't even want to leave, but they decided she wanted to be "worldly" and had to leave! She seems lost and sad now, still grieving over being kicked out. At one point the presenter mentioned that the children/young people have no hope for marriage because they are not allowed to get to know anyone outside of the family. How heart-breaking! I suspect that will be what draws the younger folks out of this crazy cult. It is so telling when one of the young women is clearly in love with a member of a Dutch film crew they met previously, and yet she persists in her ludicrous views that he is going to hell. Despite her words, she is clearly conflicted! Despite the disturbing indoctrination of the children (and my god, there are a lot of children!), I feel reassured that the crazier they get, the fewer and fewer of them will stick with it. Eventually I think they will be an embarrassing memory of our past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HolyGoat Posted August 25, 2015 Author Share Posted August 25, 2015 You mention the young woman who was in love with the Dutch film guy. I think that was Grace Phelps. She left the church about a year ago and was recently on a trip to Europe (including the Netherlands). So I am thinking there is hope for those two!! The other interesting thing to note is the drama surrounding Fred Phelps (the patriarch) during his final days. He was essentially excommunicated because he started to promote a kinder, less hateful approach (http://cjonline.com/news/2014-03-17/elders-excommunicate-phelps-after-power-struggle-call-kindness-within-church). Grace also alludes to it in a blog post to him, found here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daffodil Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 You mention the young woman who was in love with the Dutch film guy. I think that was Grace Phelps. She left the church about a year ago and was recently on a trip to Europe (including the Netherlands). So I am thinking there is hope for those two!! The other interesting thing to note is the drama surrounding Fred Phelps (the patriarch) during his final days. He was essentially excommunicated because he started to promote a kinder, less hateful approach (http://cjonline.com/news/2014-03-17/elders-excommunicate-phelps-after-power-struggle-call-kindness-within-church). Grace also alludes to it in a blog post to him, found here. Holy crap that's fascinating! To be tossed out on his ear by the church he himself founded! I'm actually a bit sorry for him. I always thought the church was made up almost entirely of the Phelps family. Sounds like a coup! And it also sounds like the female members of the family that seemed to have had almost an equal status as Phelps, Sr. have been smacked down to their "proper" place as women. It reminds me of the evolution of the early church - it started out very democratic, with everyone voting on what was needed. Then as it grew, committees were formed, then elders, then a whole beauraucracy evolved and it morphed into the patriarchal mess it is now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCM Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 Tried to watch the first one. Couldn't get past the beginning. Watching the second one now. The "show" the young women put on for the presenter was quite interesting. They were dressed and dancing in a way that I never would have thought a super conservative body of believers would ever allow. The music they're using (Lady Gaga, for instance) means they have to listen to that stuff in order to make a parody of it. One of the women used the word "ass". They dress conservatively in church, even covering the women's heads with scarves, but dress like any other American the rest of the time. They don't seem to be consistent! Most fundy types, like the Duggards, are pretty consistent in their rejection of all things secular, to the point that they're ignorant of the music, literature, etc. that the rest of us are familiar with. This family seems to have one foot in the fundy world and one in the secular world. I did not expect that at all! It doesn't surprise me to hear this, westboro seems to be a more fighting the world than separating itself from it style. remember the thing was started by phelps sr who was a lawyer, and I heard the church has a large amount of lawyers in it or working for it. they seem comfortable using secular world things (such as dress and re-wording songs) to use them to fight "the world". they do have more grounding in grassroots movement practicality (if you see their large sign storage room). i think phelps used to be a civil rights lawyer before westboro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 KcK huh? That's tough. :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarGazer Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 I was always fascinated by the Westboro Baptist Church. They represent the uglier doctrines of Christianity, and stick to them. I feel like that makes a lot of people uncomfortable, because a lot of people don't want to admit that it's all in the Bible. I suppose I could credit them with helping me grow out of Christianity (The first time around). Seeing their vile attacks on the deceased, as well as my developing bisexuality, struck a chord with me, and it didn't make sense to me. The Westboro Baptist Church and what they stood for, didn't correlate with the Christianity that my Catholic school had shown me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarGazer Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HolyGoat Posted August 27, 2015 Author Share Posted August 27, 2015 In all honesty, I see the as the truest form of Christianity available in North America at the moment. Sure, they are vile and full of hate, but they don't force the bible to fit their own sensibilities. In contrast to them, all other christians are simply diluted by secular ideals and morals. And that is a GREAT thing. Luckily, groups like that tend to fall apart over time, which I think we are already seeing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daffodil Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 In all honesty, I see the as the truest form of Christianity available in North America at the moment. Sure, they are vile and full of hate, but they don't force the bible to fit their own sensibilities. In contrast to them, all other christians are simply diluted by secular ideals and morals. And that is a GREAT thing. Luckily, groups like that tend to fall apart over time, which I think we are already seeing. Have to disagree with you there. They seem to have read the OT, skipped the gospels, then picked up right where Paul gets going. I see nothing remotely "Christlike" in their behavior or morals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HolyGoat Posted August 27, 2015 Author Share Posted August 27, 2015 They seem to get the whole "hate your family" thing down pat. As far as they are concerned they are loving god by upholding his commands and loving their neighbors by trying to show them the error of their ways. It's horrible and despicable and completely ineffective, but like I said, they aren't watering down the bible with secular morals. Jesus had a lot of potentially hateful things to say (according to the bible). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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