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Goodbye Jesus

The "knowing Feeling" That Christ Is Real, Psychosomatic?


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Guest Ask21771

christians say they feel gods presence as a knowing feeling in their hearts have you ever felt this? is it just your subconscious playing tricks on you? Please tell me

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As with most words or meanings, christians tend to skew them in order to fit within their imaginary world view.

 

What christians call "knowing", the rest of the thinking world calls, 'conviction'. To put it simply -- as far as their faith/theology goes, they are CONVINCED that it's real. They don't actually KNOW anything.

 

Does that simplify anything for you?

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Guest Ask21771

I was talking about this certainty they seem to feel ive experienced it myself but i dont know if its god or just my own subconscious

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Then you can start with the christianese use of the word, 'heart'.

 

You don't feel anything in your heart. It's a muscle that pumps blood.

 

However, if you like to play make-believe, you can even say it pumps chocolate sauce through your veins.

 

To answer your question, yes, it's just in your mind.

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I've experienced it.  This is an emotion.  Feeling like you are completely sure can be just as misguided as any other emotion.  

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Sure, I've felt "it". There were times during worship where I felt electrical buzzing zipping up and down my body, and my hands shook in the classic tremor that gave the Quakers and Shakers their names. It seemed to confirm the reality of god at the time. I've felt it as heat outside my body, like a forced-air vent directed at me. I've debated with "god" about things he says are sin. I actually heard a voice in the room with me answer a question and years later give me definite instructions.

 

After discovering that Christianity is a fable based on more fables, I had to revisit what I had felt and why. Some of it still makes no sense to me. I have mostly settled into the idea that my mind made things up to satisfy my intense longing for the presence of god. This is part of the amazing human ability to think abstractly, and the subconscious mind is capable of producing intensely realistic dreams, and that ability can bleed over into waking hours making it seem like another person or presence. It is a fascinating subject. But facts are facts, and the bible is 99% hooey written by ignorant men over centuries. I give the weight of evidence to the facts and use those to interpret my feelings and seemingly real experiences.

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This feeling can actually be reproduced in ways that are not religious or dogmatic per se. One example is through the agency of psychoactive medications. I have had such experiences after taking large doses of peyote, a plant that contains the psychoactive substance mescaline in addition to other alkaloids. If I am to be honest, these experiences on peyote have been much more profound than what I ever felt through religious practices and/or meditation. We have a basic understanding of the mechanisms behind these experiences as facilitated by psychoactive substances and the intuitions that we are developing may also provide insight into the "religious" experiences. In other words, these experiences that Christians speak of are not unique to Christianity or even religion in general, can be reproduced in the lab and can even be studied in a controlled setting. There is also ongoing research into the creation of these experiences by applying magnetic fields to certain areas of the brain.

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Sure, I've felt "it". There were times during worship where I felt electrical buzzing zipping up and down my body, and my hands shook in the classic tremor that gave the Quakers and Shakers their names. It seemed to confirm the reality of god at the time. I've felt it as heat outside my body, like a forced-air vent directed at me.

 

I think some churches knowingly or unknowingly create the atmosphere in their services to induce this kind of response.  They play music loudly with thumping bass that you can feel in your abdomen, the lights are turned down low, you are standing for extended periods sometimes with hands raised, and singing emotional songs about how someone died for you.  It is not hard to see how this can bring about sensations that you physically feel in your body.

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There were moments I had "feelings" that i was one of god's special elect children. Or I would read a certain passage and it was like a whole hidden meaning opened up to me. The god feeling was rare, but it was just me producing those feelings in myself. I have proved this through meditation. 

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People seem to have a hard time grasping that you don't actually experience anything without your brain. The only reason your toe hurts when you stub it, is because of your brain. Your eyes aren't windows to the world either - they are video cameras that are fooled and messed with all the time.

 

"Feeling" (or seeing / hearing / smelling / tasting) something means nothing as far as reality is concerned. I wish more people understood this...

 

There are a great many books on the brain. Please read a few. It's fascinating. :)

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christians say they feel gods presence as a knowing feeling in their hearts have you ever felt this? is it just your subconscious playing tricks on you? Please tell me

 

Please define "knowing feeling in the heart".

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I used to get nice feelings when I was serious about religion.  But I also get the exact same feeling after I exercise a lot, or when I'm taking a beautiful walk on a perfect day, or after great sex.  It's just happy chemicals going through my body.  It's a nice thing.  But it doesn't prove there's a god.  It just proves that I did something (exercise, orgasm, deep feelings of happiness) that released those chemicals.

 

I would say that I never actually felt god's presence.  I just had happy, tingly feelings.

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I used to get nice feelings when I was serious about religion.  But I also get the exact same feeling after I exercise a lot, or when I'm taking a beautiful walk on a perfect day, or after great sex.  It's just happy chemicals going through my body.  It's a nice thing.  But it doesn't prove there's a god.  It just proves that I did something (exercise, orgasm, deep feelings of happiness) that released those chemicals.

 

I would say that I never actually felt god's presence.  I just had happy, tingly feelings.

 

Well, if it felt good after reading the babble, then it was the LORRRRRRRRRRRRRRD! 

But if it felt good as an orgasm, it was SATANNNNNNNNNNNNN!

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Ask, did you talk to a doctor about this? I remember how in your last similar thread we told you to.

 

 

I felt "presence" many times, I felt the buzz and tremor like Fuego describes above, and I "knew" god, angels, spirits were real, really as real as the fact that the sun rises in the morning.

 

But, even the strongest emotion is not proof of them being real.

 

Emotions can be altered very easily and your brain can be made to think there's something in the room, your eyes may not see it but you'll even "know" what it looks like. Meditation, basic hypnosis etc can cause that - and certain illnesses too. On this forum there have been users with bipolar disorder who in mania phase converted back into Christianity. Please consider this.

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Guest Ask21771

I know people are saying its in my head but it doesn't feel like that at all I get these moments where I "know" that Jesus is real it feels 100% true even when I take the meds they still happen, I don't want it to be Jesus please tell ms what is going on and yes I'm bipolar but this doesn't feel like I usually do when my symptoms act up please explain it time PLEASE

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Guest Ask21771

Ask, did you talk to a doctor about this? I remember how in your last similar thread we told you to.

I felt "presence" many times, I felt the buzz and tremor like Fuego describes above, and I "knew" god, angels, spirits were real, really as real as the fact that the sun rises in the morning.

But, even the strongest emotion is not proof of them being real.

Emotions can be altered very easily and your brain can be made to think there's something in the room, your eyes may not see it but you'll even "know" what it looks like. Meditation, basic hypnosis etc can cause that - and certain illnesses too. On this forum there have been users with bipolar disorder who in mania phase converted back into Christianity. Please consider this.

It was more like intuition

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I've had the greatest joy fill me to high elation, just driving down the road. Not seeking God or praying. Just driving and suddenly: soaring, glorious joy. I've felt amazing power pour through me, specifically once in a communion service. It was like breathing out, without having to breathe in again. Hard to explain, but it was...wow. While praying, I have "seen" how to pray, in pictures. That feels like a loop. Me, praying what God shows me to pray, and God pouring through me, and me lifting it back to God.

 

Even though I've been charismatic, I never trusted the high emotion that they tend to drum up in their worship or prayer services. I remember sitting there, while all these women were praying and crying, tears streaming...they drummed up some good emotion, by George. And I sat there going Hmmm.

 

But to receive such elation and uplifting amazingness just because? I considered it a blessing from God. Still do. Possibly that prayer "loop" is something my mind makes up, and possibly the powerful communion service had a group buzz that I felt, but the random joyful soaring? Just coming from wherever? That wasn't me. It was poured into me from Somewhere Else.

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Guest Ask21771

I've had the greatest joy fill me to high elation, just driving down the road. Not seeking God or praying. Just driving and suddenly: soaring, glorious joy. I've felt amazing power pour through me, specifically once in a communion service. It was like breathing out, without having to breathe in again. Hard to explain, but it was...wow. While praying, I have "seen" how to pray, in pictures. That feels like a loop. Me, praying what God shows me to pray, and God pouring through me, and me lifting it back to God.

 

Even though I've been charismatic, I never trusted the high emotion that they tend to drum up in their worship or prayer services. I remember sitting there, while all these women were praying and crying, tears streaming...they drummed up some good emotion, by George. And I sat there going Hmmm.

 

But to receive such elation and uplifting amazingness just because? I considered it a blessing from God. Still do. Possibly that prayer "loop" is something my mind makes up, and possibly the powerful communion service had a group buzz that I felt, but the random joyful soaring? Just coming from wherever? That wasn't me. It was poured into me from Somewhere Else.

I don't want to be a Christian g

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"I don't want to be a Christian g"

 

Ask, I'm not sure myself. Just answering your question: Have I ever felt God? Yeah, I believe I have, whether I stay with xtianity or not.

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I know people are saying its in my head but it doesn't feel like that at all I get these moments where I "know" that Jesus is real it feels 100% true even when I take the meds they still happen, I don't want it to be Jesus please tell ms what is going on and yes I'm bipolar but this doesn't feel like I usually do when my symptoms act up please explain it time PLEASE

 

What do you mean it doesn't feel like it is in your head?  This is exactly what it would feel like if it was your bipolar making you feel that way.  Emotions are not grounded in reality.  Now I don't have bipolar but I still was able to experience delusions and hypnosis.  It feels super real because such experiences are part of being human.  The only reason you think it is Jesus is because you were raised in a Christian culture.  If you grew up in some other part of the world you would have been given a different religious explanation so you would assign the experience to some other god(s) or spirituality.  All these contradictory religions can't be true.  Each says all the others are wrong.  But they can all be deluding themselves.  All religion can be imaginary.

 

Most of my adult life I had a crippling phobia regarding demons.  I use to attribute real world events to demon attack.  Whenever bad luck happened to me I literally thought I was in a Poltergeist movie.  That is a terrible way to live and it was a huge relief when I stopped believing in demons.  Occasionally bad things still happen in my life but now I investigate and if I look hard enough I can usually find the ordinary cause behind the problem.  Rational thinking has improved my life so much I can't put it into words how much better things have become.

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Guest Ask21771

 

I know people are saying its in my head but it doesn't feel like that at all I get these moments where I "know" that Jesus is real it feels 100% true even when I take the meds they still happen, I don't want it to be Jesus please tell ms what is going on and yes I'm bipolar but this doesn't feel like I usually do when my symptoms act up please explain it time PLEASE

 

 

What do you mean it doesn't feel like it is in your head?  This is exactly what it would feel like if it was your bipolar making you feel that way.  Emotions are not grounded in reality.  Now I don't have bipolar but I still was able to experience delusions and hypnosis.  It feels super real because such experiences are part of being human.  The only reason you think it is Jesus is because you were raised in a Christian culture.  If you grew up in some other part of the world you would have been given a different religious explanation so you would assign the experience to some other god(s) or spirituality.  All these contradictory religions can't be true.  Each says all the others are wrong.  But they can all be deluding themselves.  All religion can be imaginary.

 

Most of my adult life I had a crippling phobia regarding demons.  I use to attribute real world events to demon attack.  Whenever bad luck happened to me I literally thought I was in a Poltergeist movie.  That is a terrible way to live and it was a huge relief when I stopped believing in demons.  Occasionally bad things still happen in my life but now I investigate and if I look hard enough I can usually find the ordinary cause behind the problem.  Rational thinking has improved my life so much I can't put it into words how much better things have become.

Its not emotions more like a certainty like finding out something is true

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Its not emotions more like a certainty like finding out something is true

 

 

There are only two kinds certainty.  There is emotional certainty.  Then there is the kind that come from empirical fact.  Can you show us the data that demonstrates that Christ is real?  If your certainty is not connected to fact then it is pure emotion.  Without fact you don't have truth.

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