What Can Wash Away My Sin

[bunzooh]

This is a hard post, one I've started once, and didn't post it. It has to do with what it means to be cleansed of all sin. What does it mean, to repent of one's sins and ask God to forgive you through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ?

 

Several things brought this to the top of my mind, particularly the Duggar nonsense, but also my own inability to "claim victory" over an area of my life that I have struggled with since puberty hit. That is, my sex drive/sex life. I've done some really foolish things, which i am not going to detail here. Sufficient to say "I screwed around, BC, and as a Xtian, and after my divorce, as a divorced Xtian" Though I was never unfaithful to my ex. Let's make that clear.

 

Here's the thing, though. Every time I "messed up," the following day I would be riddled with remorse. I did it with boyfriends...and in my 20's, both guys I was "with" were Xtian themselves. We "fell" many times, and I do believe they had as much remorse as I did. There were times I'd wish I had been born a bird, because whatever birds do, it can't be counted as sinful...they behave mostly on instinct and their choices are kind of pre-programmed. I would "do it" and then cry out to God, first to forgive me, and thank Jesus for already dying for this one, and then plead with God to remove it from me.

 

Oh I wanted my red lizard dead! (Random reference to CS Lewis "The Great Divorce) I told God to take it away, to kill it, to cleanse me of this behavior I was constantly, repeatedly practicing. In the Bible I read of a woman bent double. When Jesus touched her, she straightened up and walked erect. Why did she become whole after one encounter with Jesus, while I had to still deal with my "crippling" issues decades after meeting him and serving him with everything in me? Why on EARTH did he not answer my prayer to be wholly cleansed from this evil sexual sinfulness I was under? Was I praying earnestly enough? I confessed to pastors and friends, who prayed for me (and when I fell yet again, they were very kind and loving to me. Truly, they were...literally no condemnation. Just love and acceptance, and offers to help however they could) (and more than one pastor was kind to me in this over the years...I know that is a different experience than some have had) and I sincerely and deeply wanted it to be gone from me. it was my most earnest, and most frequent prayer PLEASE GOD! TAKE AWAY THIS SIN!

 

So when I heard about Josh Duggar's second round in the media spotlight (the Ashley Madison thing) I had to wonder...how often, how fervently, how sincerely, how deeply, did he plead with God to take away these evil impulses? He had to know, back in his teen days, that touching little girls was dead wrong...surely he must have begged God to help him when the impulse arose? Right? Why on earth did he not receive freedom from it?

 

IOW, why didn't the blood of Jesus REALLY REMOVE his sin? why didn't it do that for me? I know how hard I begged for it and i know the tears I shed over it. "I wet my couch with tears" many times over. In fact, it was worst of all in the first half of 2012, and I recently unpacked some art I did at that time. DAYUM...dark, ugly, sad. I felt so bad about myself, and was so burdened by this. Yet over and over again I repented and asked for release. And then fell. Again. Not to mention how horrendous my thought life was. I am SO glad that is over. i hated every waking moment of my life at that time.

 

One really bad incident took place, again no details, but it was what I consider my "hitting bottom"....even if sexual activity outside of marriage is not sin, this incident was beyond foolish, and there was no excuse for a grown woman to go where I went. Anyway, I wrote in my journal that day Fuck It. Lust wins. That incident is easily my most regretted day in my life, and I hate that it happened.

 

And I was SO PISSED at God. How many years had I plead with him to remove this STUPID, UGLY, CRASS, IGNORANT, FOOLISH sin/behavior/mindset from me? And yet, when it came right down to it, I was like a freaking target. I didn't even have to go looking; a-holes came after me and I was a damn coward, a helpless, spineless sack of Jello with no will to refuse. It was BAD. How close I came at that time to utterly turning my back on God. Looking back, I recognize the emptiness of the promises for protection in the Bible, partly from this incident. Psalm 91 promises protection to those who "dwell in the shadow of the almighty"? But where was God when this predator came looking and found me? Ugh.

 

so...what DOES the blood of Jesus do? The bible has a lot to say about reconciling us to God and redeeming us. Propitiation. Cleansed from all sin. Do tell.

 

In reality, in the one thing I struggled with hardest, no real change ever took place in my life. As a married woman, I was faithful. Now in a committed relationship, though not married, I will be faithful, too. But unattached? Anything goes, especially if I had a boyfriend. No matter how hard I begged God, no matter how firm I was with the guy I might be dating, the temptation was never NOT there, and the ability to say no and not go there was NEVER in me. I fell EVERY. TIME. And every time I repented and was forgiven. Is that part of the problem? We can sin and just take it to Jesus and he will forgive, every time. Why bother really changing, if we can just be forgiven time and time again? So what on earth DOES the blood of Jesus do? Seems that there are plenty of xtians struggling with the same shit, over and over again, with no real change. Sin, repent. Sin again. Repent again.

 

I say no change, but to be honest, I have changed a lot, from who I was when I hit bottom. But that's for another post. This has gone on long enough.

 

 

[disillusioned]

Fantastic post. One of the best. Seriously.

[mymistake]

The method is fool people into thinking that their very nature is "sin" in order to sell them an imaginary cure.  When the cure doesn't change your nature that is because you are doing it wrong.  Try harder.  When it still doesn't work you are still doing it wrong.  Try harder.  And of course you are never allowed to question the cure.

[VacuumFlux]

I had so many issues that I begged god to fix for me. It never worked. I thought that I was just too weak, too sinful... It wasn't until I stopped believing that god could do anything about it that I discovered that, with a lot of work, I could learn new habits and coping skills that made me act more in line with the person I wanted to be.

 

And specifically about sexuality... I'm still not on great terms with mine, though it's much better than it used to be. It's just always felt so overwhelming, so out of control. Then one time, when I needed to say no (well, it was more of a "not yet, I need to think this through first"), I found out that when I claimed my sexuality as a part of me, as something that belongs to me, I could override it. I had been trying to push it away from me, to fight it off, and it never worked. But once I accepted it as mine, it didn't control me; it became one part of me, but only one part, subject to the same compromises and long-term thinking that my other wants are. Because it was mine now, and I could do with it what I wanted. It was a shock to realize that embracing a "sinful" part of me made me less likely to "sin".

[♦ Fuego ♦]

The secret, as mymistake said, is that nothing was wrong with you to begin with. All life everywhere, except where it is defective or misprogrammed, is driven to make more life (sex). Survival and making more life is what life pushes us towards all the time. Trees, bugs, cats, wombats, giraffes, whales, humans, etc. It is normal to want sex, and to enjoy it. We humans can think abstractly, so we figured out that we don't have to actually have kids to enjoy sex, and we can enjoy it in several ways.

 

I've cried the same tears and pleaded for the "born again" experience to be realized in me, but it never was (and never could be). In all the men's meetings at church, the same story was played out over and over, and the pastor or guest speaker would always have some technique or steps to overcoming lust, all the while giving into it themselves. But we all KNEW the bible had to be true, so we kept on keeping on confessing and repenting and wanking and looking at porn and fornicating and confessing and weeping and pleading and...

 

All the while, nothing was wrong or abnormal except our belief in Jesus, and that sex was a taboo that god was concerned about. Imagine a follower of Zeus being convinced that eating food was bad and began pleading with Zeus to take away the constant hunger, only to "fall" to eating again. Same thing. No god there, just a belief, and a taboo that is useless and counter to nature and reality. All the wasted years of trying to avoid sex, and the problems that brings to those of us that wed late in life. Grrrr. Be free my sister! Don't let the crap of the past keep haunting you. Be free, have fun, no god in the sky is watching you or anyone else.

[bunzooh]

VacuumFlux, me too. I broke my own pattern when I finally ignored the calls of someone who excited me and made me feel treasured and desirable, who I couldn't have and, to be honest, didn't want. When I knew the pain and trouble that being with him would bring was WAY BEYOND anything he had to offer, I didn't pick up the phone when he called...and from then on, things were different.

 

And since then, I have accepted that I love sex, and I'm going to have sex with the man I love EVEN IF we're not married, and I'm not going to so much as entertain the notion with men I'm not interested in. My word, how much peace that has brought.

[mymistake]

VacuumFlux, me too. I broke my own pattern when I finally ignored the calls of someone who excited me and made me feel treasured and desirable, who I couldn't have and, to be honest, didn't want. When I knew the pain and trouble that being with him would bring was WAY BEYOND anything he had to offer, I didn't pick up the phone when he called...and from then on, things were different.

 

And since then, I have accepted that I love sex, and I'm going to have sex with the man I love EVEN IF we're not married, and I'm not going to so much as entertain the notion with men I'm not interested in. My word, how much peace that has brought.

 

 

Really the only thing that matters is mutual consent.  Christians theology is deeply flawed on this.  Consent is sexual morality.  Sexual morality is consent.

[Geezer]

Sin, like religion, was created by humans. Religion's survival is based on rewards & punishment. The reward is heaven the punishment is hell. It is a simple but highly effective system. It was designed by religion as a way of controlling their adherents. This system requires intensive indoctrination (brainwashing) of the "faithful" in order to be effective.

 

In order for sin to be real then the Garden of Eden story must be a real historical event. In order for the Garden of Eden story to be real then all the laws of science & math must be false, as well as everything we know about ancient history.

 

Brainwashing the believer is the key that allows it to survive.

[Ellinas]

As I've said numerous times previously - sin depends on doctrine.  It is meaningless as a concept otherwise.

 

Sex is only a sin because the various churches say it is.

 

The best way to get rid of your sex drive is to wait until you reach the age where the question of whether there are any chocolate biscuits to accompany your afternoon coffee is more important than getting your end away.  Until you reach that age, it is a part of your make up so accept it and get on with it with as many willing partners as you see fit.

 

No self respecting deity would implant such a strong instinct in order to condemn it as a disease and prescribe an ineffective "cure" for it.

 

Christ is not the answer to sin.  He is the mascot of those than define it.

[Geezer]

Bunzooh, You note in your post that sinning, repenting, forgiveness is an endless cycle, so what's the point. I have both good & bad news for ya. Joint the Church of Christ. Their theology is works based. You have to earn your way to heaven, so if you keep repeating the same sins over & over God isn't going to continue to forgive you, so you are definitely going to hell. Feel better now?

 

The members of the Church of Christ don't know if they are saved or not but they know for sure everyone else is going to Hell!

[older]

 

....

Christ is not the answer to sin.  He is the mascot of those than define it.

 

Another one to add to the collection of great quotes. How to sum up Christianity in 16 words. Exceptionally well said.

[bunzooh]

Thought of something just now: My sister-in-law was addicted to meth, to the point of leaving my brother and their baby, in order to be with her druggie friends. She'd rather have had the high than any good thing her life had to offer...until she came to the Lord. Addiction over. She did go to 12 step programs frequently for a little while, but she credits Jesus with taking it all away from her and healing her.

 

And there are lots of stories like that. Lots of stories NOT like that, too.

 

At this point, she is disgusted with the church's stand on gays, and they don't go anymore, but both my bro and his wife see the value of Jesus for changing lives for real. Just thought I'd throw that in. The fact that converting often does lead to a radically changed life. (Which is not to say that committing to any religion would do it. Does Buddha save from sin? )

[TrueFreedom]

Yes any religion, even Scientology, can do that.  And so can science-based therapy.

[Burny]

The most defining moment of my life was when I realized there is no such thing as "sin". This concept and teaching is one of the most insidious and vile things that has ever been put on human beings. This is the most vile thing that millions of kids are still taught every day - that they are inherently bad and there's nothing they can do to change it, except die believing that an imaginary friend in the sky will make them "better" in another life.

 

What a waste of so many lives!!

[Storm]

I very much relate to your op and I also experienced the greatest relief of my life when I realized that sin wasn't real and that I am the master of my domain (to borrow from Seinfeld). The standard Christianity places on sexuality is unattainable. Ephesians 5:3 says "But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God's holy people." This is not possible for anyone who isn't asexual. This is not an attainable standard. I tried so hard to live by this standard and I failed every time. I believed it was all my fault too. But now I realize that it was the standard that was wrong, not myself. How liberating that felt to realize. I enjoy life more now outside of the cult more so than I ever did in it. I realize that life is precious and I only have this one to live. That changes your perspective on everything we you understand it.

 

Kudos to you for making the choice that best fits for you.

 

I hope you find true happiness in the relationship you have with this "forbidden" lover.

[bunzooh]

but humans are capable of such evil. Horrible things we are capable of. Isn't that sin? I mean, my sexuality aside...there's some pretty horrendous stuff out there you must admit.

 

Even if me having sex without being married isn't sin (and I don't think it is, truly. I never had this much peace when I was trying so hard NOT to do it. Which is more harmful, deeply hating and trying to stop such an enormous part of who I am, or accepting it and being at peace with it, and owning it/controlling it myself?)

 

so, consensual sex BETWEEN ADULTS isn't sinful. But just look around and see the harm people do to each other, to the earth, to animals, to children. we are capable of some extremely heinous shit. What is that? Do we call it sin for children in the Third World to starve to death while we (face it) in the West are dying of obesity? Or is that just evil? Allowing injustice to reign. Abuse, neglect, selfishness, cruelty, rudeness, rage. Hell, the floating plastic islands of the pacific that are killing sea life left and right. What is that? I have always called that kind of thing SIN.

 

And I have always despised those who would say "Meh. it's all gonna burn anyway"...but that's an American thing, not what we are called to, and certainly not the religion the NT is about. Right?

 

argh! sometimes I feel so confused.

[LifeCycle]

Nothing cleanses one of sin better than no longer believing in it.

 

Also, I think "purity culture" has caused you a lot of anguish... As it has for me.

[yunea]

I used to think "sins" were called sins because they were things that caused suffering in this world, and thus they must be avoided.

 

Well, many things that are called sin do actual harm - stealing, adultery, etc. But, if you look at it, there are many "sins" that actually do no other harm but piss God off, and not doing them at all will hurt you. For example, how does something like the sin of solo sex hurt anyone? I mean sure you can get addicted to it like you can to anything pleasurable, but the Bible tells you to cut your hand off rather than touch yourself at all. A healthy dose of loving yourself physically does no harm, but having no safe release to those feelings causes a LOT of suffering. 

 

If mixed fabrics were sinful because they actually hurt someone, we'd be in big trouble. But they make life much easier, especially if you want to do sports in the more difficult climates.  

 

Also, one reason why drug or alcohol addicts seem "healed" by Jesus is that they switch one addiction to another, and religion happens to be one that isn't about substance use. It can bring you lots of positive experiences that can be extremely emotional, and keep you in a good mood meanwhile your system cleanses itself of the drug. Actually stopping the addictive lifestyle might follow later on.

[bunzooh]

Isn't that odd...I've never EVER heard the parable of cutting off your own hand applied to masturbation. It has always been "if there is anything in your life, including friends and loved ones, who would lure you away from God, then cut them out of your life"

 

I went through a brief period of thinking that touching myself was bad...but it was something I needed, if only for stress relief a couple times a month, and if God disapproved, I would ask Jesus to forgive me and cleanse me from it. which I pretty much never did, because I just simply never thought of masturbation as sinful. If it brings release (and this was the case for me, esp as a single person for whom sex was verboten) and enables me to get through my day with less stress? why would it be sinful.

 

But reading that passage now...holy crap, it really is about sexual things, isn't it? Oops. I never did cut my right hand off!   now I'm in trouble. 

 

you could be right about her exchanging the 12 step meetings, and church, for the meth addiction. I guess that's possible. I also stopped being so rageful and ornery after becoming a xtian, though. I mean, I continued freaking out about sex, but kindness, goodness, gentleness, patience and other virtues increased as I have walked with the Lord.

 

Hmmm.

[bunzooh]

 

 

you could be right about her exchanging the 12 step meetings, and church, for the meth addiction. I guess that's possible. I also stopped being so rageful and ornery after becoming a xtian, though. I mean, I continued freaking out about sex, but kindness, goodness, gentleness, patience and other virtues increased as I have walked with the Lord.

 

Hmmm.

meaning...some things about me improved as I lived my Xtian life.