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Goodbye Jesus

God's Ways Are Not Our Ways Vs. The Knowledge Of Good And Evil


yunea

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Ironhorse, we don't need to be "above god" to be able to use the Knowledge of Good and Evil that came with eating the forbidden fruit. Since you like parallels, think of this: A quite small child is able to see that an adult torturing and killing kittens for liking the sight of blood is not doing a good thing, but in fact an evil thing.

 

Even if our perception is smaller than God's perception, how would we be completely unable to say even ONE thing that is evil about how God works (and doesn't), since we in fact ate the very fruit that was supposed to give us the knowledge of it?

 

Of course, a God is redundant in the universe, as is "salvation" and someone somehow "dying for our sins", but we're temporarily assuming they're not, for the sake of this thread. 

 

Of course, if humans do not have the capability of discerning whether this God is evil then humans do not have the capability of discerning whether this God is good.

 

 

Hence...faith.

 

Faith... the universal non-answer.

 

Just go with faith and **** the evidence, the data, the knowledge and everything else!

 

Right, Ironhorse..?

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Ironhorse, we don't need to be "above god" to be able to use the Knowledge of Good and Evil that came with eating the forbidden fruit. Since you like parallels, think of this: A quite small child is able to see that an adult torturing and killing kittens for liking the sight of blood is not doing a good thing, but in fact an evil thing.

 

Even if our perception is smaller than God's perception, how would we be completely unable to say even ONE thing that is evil about how God works (and doesn't), since we in fact ate the very fruit that was supposed to give us the knowledge of it?

 

Of course, a God is redundant in the universe, as is "salvation" and someone somehow "dying for our sins", but we're temporarily assuming they're not, for the sake of this thread. 

 

Of course, if humans do not have the capability of discerning whether this God is evil then humans do not have the capability of discerning whether this God is good.

 

 

Hence...faith.

 

Faith... the universal non-answer.

 

Just go with faith and **** the evidence, the data, the knowledge and everything else!

 

Right, Ironhorse..?

 

 

 

This is an issue/question that Tin Pony has not addressed before, even during that extensive time and effort when and where he claims to have deeply questioned his religious indoctrination when younger.  That question is, "Assuming the Christian God exists and assuming the Genesis story that humans acquired knowledge of good and evil when they ate certain fruit from a certain tree is also true, do humans have the ability to discern whether the actions of the Christian God are good, evil or neither?"

 

Tin Pony apparent attempt to address this question in this thread is nothing but a non sequitur derail with a side salad of, "Hey look over there"!  He claims the Christian God is eternal and is smarter or more knowledgeable than humans.  He hasn't explained how these claims are relevant to whether humans, who can differentiate between good and evil (that's the second premise of the OP) somehow are not able to differentiate between good and evil when applied to the presumed actions, statements and conduct of Christian God.  To analogize, if the question is whether the car has enough gas to get home, Tin Pony interjects with, 'The car is well built and the car can carry six passengers comfortably.'  

 

 

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Not sure if this was factored in yet. Maybe, that is why he didn't want us to eat from the tree of knowledge also. We would be able to see through Gods bs and realise he isn't the GOOD God he claims to be.

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God gives rules to adhere to. Ultimately faithfully adhering may move you towards Godliness. Other than that, your perspective of good vs evil is limited. Very very simple

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God gives rules to adhere to. Ultimately faithfully adhering may move you towards Godliness. Other than that, your perspective of good vs evil is limited. Very very simple

 

Ah, following God's rules to become Godly.

 

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Leviticus+25&version=NASB

 

Lev 25:

 

44 As for your male and female slaves whom you may have—you may acquire male and female slaves from the pagan nations that are around you. 45 Then, too, it is out of the sons of the sojourners who live as aliens among you that you may gain acquisition, and out of their families who are with you, whom they will have produced in your land; they also may become your possession. 46 You may even bequeath them to your sons after you, to receive as a possession; you can use them as permanent slaves. But in respect to your countrymen, the sons of Israel, you shall not rule with severity over one another.

 

Slave holders must have been very Godly.

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Obviously you are too slow to comprehend the part about perspective ...

 

 

Yep, I am too slow to comprehend how owning slaves is not evil but rather good and Godly.  Must be something is wrong with my limited perspective.

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Yes, your finite brain cannot envision how being a slave might be good....

 

 

+1

 

Thank God for that!  I could not agree more.

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Everyone has their place...

 

If you're claiming to be a slave of Christ, E3, I'm going to have to report you to your boss in my prayers tonight.  I think you might be a runaway.

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Is it still Godly for unbethrothed rape victims to mary their rapist . . . or does that rule not count anymore because Jesus completed the law?   Wendyshrug.gif

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No, was just saying if we are looking at reality, reality says we are not omniscient . So it's either admit to this and those possibilities or appear as MM.

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No, was just saying if we are looking at reality, reality says we are not omniscient . So it's either admit to this and those possibilities or appear as MM.

 

end3, are you trying to be an idiot again? None of us know everything.

 

That doesn't mean that there might be someone that knows everything. We don't know yet. 

 

In the mean time, it has to be your god?

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No, was just saying if we are looking at reality, reality says we are not omniscient . So it's either admit to this and those possibilities or appear as MM.

 

end3, are you trying to be an idiot again? None of us know everything.

 

That doesn't mean that there might be someone that knows everything. We don't know yet. 

 

In the mean time, it has to be your god?

 

The subject WAS the Christian perspective???

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No, was just saying if we are looking at reality, reality says we are not omniscient . So it's either admit to this and those possibilities or appear as MM.

 

end3, are you trying to be an idiot again? None of us know everything.

 

That doesn't mean that there might be someone that knows everything. We don't know yet. 

 

In the mean time, it has to be your god?

 

The subject WAS the Christian perspective???

 

 

Of course it was.  Don't you find it even a little bit silly?

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Why are we not allowed to say that we know evil when we see it, when it's God in question?

 

What was that fruit's effect, if not knowledge of good and evil? Or was it a some kind of flawed version of the knowledge even though the perfect God created it? 

 

Answer me, Christians!

     You can do this but you will always lose.  You see god always knows more than humans do or so we're told.  It doesn't matter how much more just more.  So god can always do an end run around you every single time on every single issue without fail.  If you think you've finally got god boxed in he'll just go around you because of that little bit of extra knowledge he supposedly possesses on that topic.  It becomes an exercise in futility.

 

     So when humans ate from the tree they learned what was good.  God knows all that is good as well.  Everything humans know and then some.  How much more?  I don't know.  Just more.  Maybe just one thing more but it will always be that one thing you're curious about.  And the same with evil.  So if you think god did something evil maybe it is because you lack knowledge of that one thing that god doesn't and if you actually had that information you'd see it entirely different but that information wasn't in the tree but only in god so you didn't gain access to that knowledge or perhaps we had the information but didn't retain it for some reason.

 

     The trick here is to come up with reasons as to why god possesses any amount of knowledge of good and evil than humans do.  It's important that humans know enough about these things to condemn themselves but not enough to be able to properly understand identical actions performed by god.  Or, if more information were known about the nature of good and evil, that evil could be good and good could be evil but only if performed by god and never by humans (in which case good is usually good, good is sometimes evil, and evil is always evil no matter how much knowledge one possesses).

 

          mwc

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Why are we not allowed to say that we know evil when we see it, when it's God in question?

 

 

 

 

Christians dont like to think the God who they will be living with forever in heaven is evil. :)

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"So, we are supposed to not judge God when he orders murder in scripture, doesn't answer prayers (or answers only weird, small stuff like parking space requests when there are huge problems in the world that sure could use divine intervention), and has a holy book that is not supported by science in its crucial parts. We are supposed to just trust that it's all for a some kind of greater good in both our lives and in eternity."

 

~ yunea

 

 

God is the eternal supreme being.

 

It might help to think about all the science fiction space stories and movies...and then try to go light years beyond our imaginations.

 

We can't do it. We are not God.

 

Remember , the supreme being who is light years ahead of us in his intelligence, who created the universe and all complex things gets butt hurt when we eat the wrong easily accessible fruit that he put out there himself. smile.png

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Dude:

 

"My dick tastes better than strawberry. "

 

I've been missing out on a great thread, apparently :)

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Yes, your finite brain cannot envision how being a slave might be good....

 

LoL. That is fucking hilarious.

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God gives rules to adhere to. Ultimately faithfully adhering may move you towards Godliness. Other than that, your perspective of good vs evil is limited. Very very simple

 

I've corrected this for you, End.

 

By faith End3 believes that... God gives rules to adhere to.

 

By faith, he believes that... Ultimately faithfully adhering may move you towards Godliness.

 

 

By faith, he also believes that... Other than that, your perspective of good vs evil is limited.

 

By faith, he lastly believes that it is... Very very simple

.

.

.

So that's four separate leaps of faith by End and a maybe.

 

Correction completed!

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Yes, your finite brain cannot envision how being a slave might be good....

 

Ah yes, the absolutist argument.

 

Because we cannot know the infinite and perfect God - we can therefore justify any action or deed (no matter how barbaric, sadistic and evil) as moral.

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 Christian programming: God's ways are beyond knowing! We can't possibly know the eternal God! Is God good? Oh my yes, he's a good God! I just KNOW in my heart he loves me!

 

 

 

Yes, that makes sense.

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Yes, your finite brain cannot envision how being a slave might be good....

 

LoL. That is fucking hilarious.

 

 

 

And if God told me to cut my son to pieces and burn the body then I would tell God that he can go fuck himself.  I'm not as "Godly" as Father Abraham.

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