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Goodbye Jesus

God's Ways Are Not Our Ways Vs. The Knowledge Of Good And Evil


yunea

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Yes, your finite brain cannot envision how being a slave might be good....

 

 

Everyone has their place...

 

Yes!! These quotes are the prime examples of christian thinking. Years ago I had a discussion with a catholic friend about injustices in the world and he had the same opinion as end3's. According to him everything happened in the world was god's will. My friend said a rape victim should understand the rape incident would serve maybe as a warning for the rapist's possible next victims or maybe preventing someone else less strong being raped or maybe something else that we human were not capable of thinking. So, as human we should accept our purpose in life. What a f***ed up way of thinking.

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God gives rules to adhere to. Ultimately faithfully adhering may move you towards Godliness. Other than that, your perspective of good vs evil is limited. Very very simple

 

I've corrected this for you, End.

 

By faith End3 believes that... God gives End3 rules to adhere to.

 

By faith, End3 believes that... Ultimately faithfully adhering [to God's rules] may move End3 towards Godliness.

 

 

By faith, End3 also believes that... Other than [adhering to God's rules], End3's perspective of good vs evil is limited.

 

By faith, End3 lastly believes that it is... Very very simple

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.

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So that's four separate leaps of faith by End and a maybe.

 

Correction completed!

 

 

 

End3 correction Version 2 above, mostly to remove his projection upon others of his beliefs.  Apparently, End3 isn't doing very well with adhering to his God's rules because he certainly demonstrates his perspective of good and evil is quite limited.  After all, it's very very simple.

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Agree, Sdelsolray!  goodjob.gif

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Yes, your finite brain cannot envision how being a slave might be good....

 

Ah yes, the absolutist argument.

 

Because we cannot know the infinite and perfect God - we can therefore justify any action or deed (no matter how barbaric, sadistic and evil) as moral.

 

I'm not talking justification of evil etc. I'm talking about how what we perceive as evil may result in good.

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I'm not talking justification of evil etc. I'm talking about how what we perceive as evil may result in good.

 

 

It doesn't matter what you think, E3. All that matters is what the Bible says. My ancestors, Adam and Eve, ate from THAT tree.

 

According to your scriptures then, I know what evil is, and I see it in your God (again, for the sake of argument, letting the Bible be true).

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I'm not talking justification of evil etc. I'm talking about how what we perceive as evil may result in good.

 

 

It doesn't matter what you think, E3. All that matters is what the Bible says. My ancestors, Adam and Eve, ate from THAT tree.

 

According to your scriptures then, I know what evil is, and I see it in your God (again, for the sake of argument, letting the Bible be true).

 

Your statement is very representative of the problem in my estimation. Many of you think you have some level of certainty when you don't really have crap....and you stubbornly adhere in the face of admitting you don't have the answers. This comment case in point. What you have D about good and evil is multiple generations removed and dynamic cultures away from a theoretical absolute good and evil. You might think you know, but you really don't. I don't care to believe that my relative views are absolute. I DO believe there is absolute good and evil.

 

The sad part, even in your daily lives you don't do what you are professing. You faithfully adhere to something in the face of not knowing.

 

What a fn joke.

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I'm not talking justification of evil etc. I'm talking about how what we perceive as evil may result in good.

 

 

It doesn't matter what you think, E3. All that matters is what the Bible says. My ancestors, Adam and Eve, ate from THAT tree.

 

According to your scriptures then, I know what evil is, and I see it in your God (again, for the sake of argument, letting the Bible be true).

 

Your statement is very representative of the problem in my estimation. Many of you think you have some level of certainty when you don't really have crap....and you stubbornly adhere in the face of admitting you don't have the answers. This comment case in point. What you have D about good and evil is multiple generations removed and dynamic cultures away from a theoretical absolute good and evil. You might think you know, but you really don't. I don't care to believe that my relative views are absolute. I DO believe there is absolute good and evil.

 

The sad part, even in your daily lives you don't do what you are professing. You faithfully adhere to something in the face of not knowing.

 

What a fn joke.

 

 

Again, in your estimation. Thanks for agreeing with me. All we have is the Bible, right?

 

I don't recall when God lifted his curse, or the knowledge of good and evil that went along with it.

 

Beyond that, I'm fine in the face of not knowing. It kind of makes me feel alive. 

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End3 projects once again.  Quite predictable.

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I'm not talking justification of evil etc. I'm talking about how what we perceive as evil may result in good.

 

 

Right, I get that.  Something is wrong with our perception when we think God allowing slavery was evil, or God demanding the rape victim marry her rapist was evil, or God telling Abraham to murder his son (even as a joke) was evil, or God killing all of Job's children was evil.

 

It's our perception that is off.

 

 

 

 

Your statement is very representative of the problem in my estimation. Many of you think you have some level of certainty when you don't really have crap....and you stubbornly adhere in the face of admitting you don't have the answers. This comment case in point. What you have D about good and evil is multiple generations removed and dynamic cultures away from a theoretical absolute good and evil. You might think you know, but you really don't. I don't care to believe that my relative views are absolute. I DO believe there is absolute good and evil.

 

 

 

Yep, it's us who are messed up.  Not the guy who thinks God is doing good when God has Job's children murdered, or plays a prank on Abraham and tells him to murder his son, or forces a rape victim to marry her rapist, or allows one human to own another as property.  

 

Funny how you have the exact same human limitations but your conclusion is somehow free of the rules you made up.  

 

 

 

The sad part, even in your daily lives you don't do what you are professing. You faithfully adhere to something in the face of not knowing.

 

I call bullshit.  You pulled that out of thin air and cannot back it up.  In short, you are wrong.

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So, as human we should accept our purpose in life. What a f***ed up way of thinking.

 

If anything, we should reject any "purpose" that we haven't chosen for ourselves.  Whenever I hear nonsense like "God has a purpose for you," the first thing that springs to mind is "So much for that 'free will' shit."

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Everyone has their place...

Women. Right?

Or some other group?

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upity people not knowing their place... This explains the misogyny at least. Seriously. Who else do you have in mind?

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Yes, your finite brain cannot envision how being a slave might be good....

 

Ah yes, the absolutist argument.

 

Because we cannot know the infinite and perfect God - we can therefore justify any action or deed (no matter how barbaric, sadistic and evil) as moral.

 

I'm not talking justification of evil etc. I'm talking about how what we perceive as evil may result in good.

 

 

 

Because you don't trust what you perceive End, you assert that nobody can trust what they perceive.  

That everyone must be like you - unable to trust their senses and forced to proceed by faith, not evidence. Yet, your own assertion rules that possibility out.  If you don't trust what your senses tell you, how do you know if other people can trust what their senses are telling them?  But by your own assertion - you can't know that.  By your own assertion - you can't know anything.  So all you can do is believe these things about yourself and about others - by faith.

 

So, believing that you (and everyone else) are unable to know zip, you apply what you believe to be true about yourself to everyone else.  

Because faith is all you have - it must therefore be all that everyone has.  

Having excluded all evidence from the process, you use faith to justify faith in an unbreakable (and irrational) circular argument.

 

Which is also an absolutist argument.

Because you are unable to know anything, everything must be taken on faith.  You can justify all of God's deeds or actions as being good and moral, because you believe (by faith) that it's impossible to know anything by evidence.  Therefore, even if evidence of God being evil existed (as it does in scripture) you disbelieve it, asserting that you cannot trust anything that you perceive.  

 

A totally circular argument!

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I'm not talking justification of evil etc. I'm talking about how what we perceive as evil may result in good.

 

 

It doesn't matter what you think, E3. All that matters is what the Bible says. My ancestors, Adam and Eve, ate from THAT tree.

 

According to your scriptures then, I know what evil is, and I see it in your God (again, for the sake of argument, letting the Bible be true).

 

Your statement is very representative of the problem in my estimation. Many of you think you have some level of certainty when you don't really have crap....and you stubbornly adhere in the face of admitting you don't have the answers. This comment case in point. What you have D about good and evil is multiple generations removed and dynamic cultures away from a theoretical absolute good and evil. You might think you know, but you really don't. I don't care to believe that my relative views are absolute. I DO believe there is absolute good and evil.

 

The sad part, even in your daily lives you don't do what you are professing. You faithfully adhere to something in the face of not knowing.

 

What a fn joke.

 

 

Again, in your estimation. Thanks for agreeing with me. All we have is the Bible, right?

 

I don't recall when God lifted his curse, or the knowledge of good and evil that went along with it.

 

Beyond that, I'm fine in the face of not knowing. It kind of makes me feel alive. 

 

 

Yes, Dude.

 

End faithfully adheres to the Bible in the face of not knowing anything.

 

Not knowing anything, he proceeds by faith about everything.

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.

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Yet, somehow the Bible gets a free pass..?

 

Somehow he can believe it's true, when he can't know anything else is true..?

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.

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Makes you wonder if his Quran would get a free pass if he'd been born in the Middle East, huh?  wink.png

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Posted Yesterday, 02:48 PM

end3, on 06 Sept 2015 - 11:19 PM, said:snapback.png

Yes, your finite brain cannot envision how being a slave might be good....

 

 

end3, on 06 Sept 2015 - 11:33 PM, said:snapback.png

Everyone has their place...

 

"Yes!! These quotes are the prime examples of christian thinking. Years ago I had a discussion with a catholic friend about injustices in the world and he had the same opinion as end3's. According to him everything happened in the world was god's will. My friend said a rape victim should understand the rape incident would serve maybe as a warning for the rapist's possible next victims or maybe preventing someone else less strong being raped or maybe something else that we human were not capable of thinking. So, as human we should accept our purpose in life. What a f***ed up way of thinking."

 

I just read this, and these opinions make me so very sad.

 

 

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Your statement is very representative of the problem in my estimation. Many of you think you have some level of certainty when you don't really have crap....and you stubbornly adhere in the face of admitting you don't have the answers. This comment case in point. What you have D about good and evil is multiple generations removed and dynamic cultures away from a theoretical absolute good and evil. You might think you know, but you really don't. I don't care to believe that my relative views are absolute. I DO believe there is absolute good and evil.

 

The sad part, even in your daily lives you don't do what you are professing. You faithfully adhere to something in the face of not knowing.

 

What a fn joke.

 

 

Alright, Jesus , can you set the record straight for us regarding your absolute goodness and/or evilness, etc? Hello? Hello?

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BAA:

 

Yes, Dude.

 

End faithfully adheres to the Bible in the face of not knowing anything.

 

Not knowing anything, he proceeds by faith about everything.

 

........

 

And when a Christian proceeds by faith this means he lives his life exactly like everyone else.

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Your statement is very representative of the problem in my estimation. Many of you think you have some level of certainty when you don't really have crap....and you stubbornly adhere in the face of admitting you don't have the answers. This comment case in point. What you have D about good and evil is multiple generations removed and dynamic cultures away from a theoretical absolute good and evil. You might think you know, but you really don't. I don't care to believe that my relative views are absolute. I DO believe there is absolute good and evil.

 

The sad part, even in your daily lives you don't do what you are professing. You faithfully adhere to something in the face of not knowing.

 

What a fn joke.

 

Alright, Jesus , can you set the record straight for us regarding your absolute goodness and/or evilness, etc? Hello? Hello?

 

Believe it or not, I was pondering the absolute this very morning. Best I could come up with is the love of a child. Thoughts? Other than that I don't know.

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BAA:

 

Yes, Dude.

 

End faithfully adheres to the Bible in the face of not knowing anything.

 

Not knowing anything, he proceeds by faith about everything.

 

........

 

And when a Christian proceeds by faith this means he lives his life exactly like everyone else.

A KINARD! A PROVERICATION! Christianity is the best fit in my mind. Obviously not everyone's. As we had already concluded sir, we act by a set of best fits, including science, and faithfully follow.

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 Christianity is the best fit in my mind. Obviously not everyone's. As we had already concluded sir, we act by a set of best fits, including science, and faithfully follow.

 

 

 

Nope.  You can't make Christianity fit.  That is why you don't give real answers and you get pissed off at our questions.  Christianity is not any kind of fit, not even in your mind.  Instead you blindly accept Christianity and tell yourself that it is some kind of fit.  Telling yourself something is true when it is not so doesn't change anything.

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BAA:

 

Yes, Dude.

 

End faithfully adheres to the Bible in the face of not knowing anything.

 

Not knowing anything, he proceeds by faith about everything.

 

........

 

And when a Christian proceeds by faith this means he lives his life exactly like everyone else.

A KINARD! A PROVERICATION! Christianity is the best fit in my mind. Obviously not everyone's. As we had already concluded sir, we act by a set of best fits, including science, and faithfully follow.

 

 

This is how science tests itself for a best fit, End.

 

It's also how science keeps on improving it's best fit.

 

dxyBuGpuptewKZBC1zV4kCwF.png

 

So how what do you use to test your best fits?  

 

Faith?

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Your statement is very representative of the problem in my estimation. Many of you think you have some level of certainty when you don't really have crap....and you stubbornly adhere in the face of admitting you don't have the answers. This comment case in point. What you have D about good and evil is multiple generations removed and dynamic cultures away from a theoretical absolute good and evil. You might think you know, but you really don't. I don't care to believe that my relative views are absolute. I DO believe there is absolute good and evil.

 

The sad part, even in your daily lives you don't do what you are professing. You faithfully adhere to something in the face of not knowing.

 

What a fn joke.

 

Alright, Jesus , can you set the record straight for us regarding your absolute goodness and/or evilness, etc? Hello? Hello?

 

Believe it or not, I was pondering the absolute this very morning. Best I could come up with is the love of a child. Thoughts? Other than that I don't know.

 

 

End3, you do believe there is an absolute good and evil, huh? Doesn't the absolute part blow a hole in your 'everything is subjective' argument?   But beyond that...

 

Allowing that the Bible is true for the sake of argument, there are very specific things that are good and evil. One doesn't have to read very far in to see that.  How are people supposed to eschew evil and cling to that which is good if they can't tell the difference?

 

But of course, we can tell the difference, and that is why we see evil in Biblegod.  He says he created evil, (Is. 45:7) right? Nothing exists that wasn't created by God, right? And it's held together by Christ, by whom all things consist, right?

 

It may pain you, but the fact is before evil could be created, it had to exist in God, for there was once a time when there was nothing but God.  You also have to admit that God is the same yesterday, today, and forever; he never changes.  So I don't see any way around the fact that Biblegod is, at the very least on some level, evil.     

 

This goes beyond fact vs. faith. If you are a Christian, you accept what the Bible plainly says. Even non Christians can say, 'yeah, that's in there' without believing it. Either way, you don't get to decide what the Bible says. You believe or you don't.

You can flip and flop all over the place, change the subject, chase down a new rabbit trail and hope we follow, but you can't escape the truth: there is evil in Biblegod. He is no example of absolute good. If there is such a thing, you'll have to find it elsewhere.

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BAA:

 

Yes, Dude.

 

End faithfully adheres to the Bible in the face of not knowing anything.

 

Not knowing anything, he proceeds by faith about everything.

 

........

 

And when a Christian proceeds by faith this means he lives his life exactly like everyone else.

A KINARD! A PROVERICATION! Christianity is the best fit in my mind. Obviously not everyone's. As we had already concluded sir, we act by a set of best fits, including science, and faithfully follow.

 

 

There just doesnt appear to be any difference in behavior between a Christian and a non-Christian. Except one wastes time at church, talks to his other personality and feels guilty for no reason.

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1) End3, you do believe there is an absolute good and evil, huh? Doesn't the absolute part blow a hole in your 'everything is subjective' argument?   But beyond that...

 

2) Allowing that the Bible is true for the sake of argument, there are very specific things that are good and evil. One doesn't have to read very far in to see that.  How are people supposed to eschew evil and cling to that which is good if they can't tell the difference?

 

But of course, we can tell the difference, and that is why we see evil in Biblegod.  He says he created evil, (Is. 45:7) right? Nothing exists that wasn't created by God, right? And it's held together by Christ, by whom all things consist, right?

 

It may pain you, but the fact is before evil could be created, it had to exist in God, for there was once a time when there was nothing but God.  You also have to admit that God is the same yesterday, today, and forever; he never changes.  So I don't see any way around the fact that Biblegod is, at the very least on some level, evil.     

 

This goes beyond fact vs. faith. If you are a Christian, you accept what the Bible plainly says. Even non Christians can say, 'yeah, that's in there' without believing it. Either way, you don't get to decide what the Bible says. You believe or you don't.

You can flip and flop all over the place, change the subject, chase down a new rabbit trail and hope we follow, but you can't escape the truth: there is evil in Biblegod. He is no example of absolute good. If there is such a thing, you'll have to find it elsewhere.

1)Actually a subjective perspective really has little to do with whether there is an absolute. I may be staring straight at some absolute and it be totally subjective.

 

2) Through faith only. How else. Seriously, how else. Subjective agreement? Cultural norms?

 

That I accept what some part of the Bible says does not mean I have closed the book through my lens. I choose to leave those issues open for the possibility there is some explanation, probably some extremely simple explanation that changes the way in which I view many things.

 

I'll get back to this....need to read a bit.

 

Not sure why we have decide and declare at this moment.

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