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Goodbye Jesus

Are You Ready To Re-Start The Dialog, End3..?


bornagainathiest

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Science offers a best current explanation for what it investigates.

It's flexible, adaptable and open to new data and new ways of thinking and understanding.

Unlike perfection.  Which is (by definition) fixed, unchanging and unable to be changed.

.

.

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Now, remembering that perfection isn't an option, why not start here and say why imperfect science doesn't satisfy you?

.

.

.

Thanks,

 

BAA.

 

Best fit?  So isn't best fit just another way of saying whatever one thinks is true, or rather one's best guess.  

 

So if Christians  believe Jesus was born to a virgin, or man walked on water then doesn't best fit allow them to choose for themselves what is the best fit? Or are you the supreme judge in those matter?

 

Since you don't believe the scientific method demonstrated by Thomas Paine who is quoted, "

 

Every science has for its basis a system of principles as fixed and unalterable as those

by which the universe is regulated and governed. Man cannot make principles; he can only discover them."

 

By principles we know that a female egg does not spontaneously become a animated zygote from a motionless gamete , without the process of fusion of the animated gamete from the male of like kind.  So not only does the principle allow one to see what is true today, it allows them to see what was true in the past and what will continue to remain true in the future.  A principle is not an absolute truth, but rather is absolutely true. 

 

However, while you claim your 'best fit' truth says a woman can't spontaneously conceive while on the same hand your say that non-living matter can spontaneously become living matter.

 

... further guidance for you, please read posts # 40 to # 58 in the, 'Earth's Water Origin' thread.

Here Ironhorse claimed that science... absolutely proves things ...and then discovered for himself that it actually doesn't do that.

It would help if you were to take his realization on board, so that we don't waste time talking about science proving things.

 

So what about the 'predictions", if the prediction was not based upon a definitive truth,or principle then how could one predict future occurences except but the principle that defines what and what isn't possible.

 

In reality you aren't promoting science, but some pseudo science of faith which is like your definition for perfection is purely fictitious. 

Unlike perfection. Which is (by definition) fixed, unchanging and unable to be changed.

 

Can you show the source of the definition for perfection you gave,which you could if you didn't make it up. 

 

the definition of perfection I found

1)  the condition, state, or quality of being free or as free as possible from all flaws or defects.

2) the action or process of improving something until it is faultless or as faultless as possible.

 

# 2 sure contradicts your imaginary definition.

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End,

 

If you are ready to restart our dialog from the, "God's Ways Are Not Our Ways" thread, please PM me and we can do so in private.

 

Thanks,

 

BAA.

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"However, while you claim your 'best fit' truth says a woman can't spontaneously conceive while on the same hand your say that non-living matter can spontaneously become living matter."

 

This would be a good thread on its own.

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Ok Justus,

 

I've cleared away my stuff to make room for your answer.

 

Let's see it, please.

 

You have the floor.

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Didn't see the thread BAA. Thanks for posting. Think I get the gist of what you would like to discuss, but you are welcome to restate or consider this: trust is life.

 

Thanks.

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Science offers a best current explanation for what it investigates.

It's flexible, adaptable and open to new data and new ways of thinking and understanding.

Unlike perfection.  Which is (by definition) fixed, unchanging and unable to be changed.

.

.

.

Now, remembering that perfection isn't an option, why not start here and say why imperfect science doesn't satisfy you?

.

.

.

Thanks,

 

BAA.

 

Best fit?  So isn't best fit just another way of saying whatever one thinks is true, or rather one's best guess.  

 

So if Christians  believe Jesus was born to a virgin, or man walked on water then doesn't best fit allow them to choose for themselves what is the best fit? Or are you the supreme judge in those matter?

 

Since you don't believe the scientific method demonstrated by Thomas Paine who is quoted, "

 

Every science has for its basis a system of principles as fixed and unalterable as those

by which the universe is regulated and governed. Man cannot make principles; he can only discover them."

 

By principles we know that a female egg does not spontaneously become a animated zygote from a motionless gamete , without the process of fusion of the animated gamete from the male of like kind.  So not only does the principle allow one to see what is true today, it allows them to see what was true in the past and what will continue to remain true in the future.  A principle is not an absolute truth, but rather is absolutely true. 

 

However, while you claim your 'best fit' truth says a woman can't spontaneously conceive while on the same hand your say that non-living matter can spontaneously become living matter.

 

... further guidance for you, please read posts # 40 to # 58 in the, 'Earth's Water Origin' thread.

Here Ironhorse claimed that science... absolutely proves things ...and then discovered for himself that it actually doesn't do that.

It would help if you were to take his realization on board, so that we don't waste time talking about science proving things.

So what about the 'predictions", if the prediction was not based upon a definitive truth,or principle then how could one predict future occurences except but the principle that defines what and what isn't possible.

 

In reality you aren't promoting science, but some pseudo science of faith which is like your definition for perfection is purely fictitious. 

Unlike perfection. Which is (by definition) fixed, unchanging and unable to be changed.

Can you show the source of the definition for perfection you gave,which you could if you didn't make it up. 

 

the definition of perfection I found

1)  the condition, state, or quality of being free or as free as possible from all flaws or defects.

2) the action or process of improving something until it is faultless or as faultless as possible.

 

# 2 sure contradicts your imaginary definition.

 

Science only offers a partial understanding. What more is there to be said. Understanding perfection implies we know the answer.

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Science only offers a partial understanding. What more is there to be said. Understanding perfection implies we know the answer.

 

 

 

A partial understanding beats the hell out of the blind ignorance that is religion.

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Didn't see the thread BAA. Thanks for posting. Think I get the gist of what you would like to discuss, but you are welcome to restate or consider this: trust is life.

 

Thanks.

 

I'd like to oblige End, but Justus and I have some unfinished business.

 

Over to you, Justus.

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Justus,

 

I put a question to you nineteen (19) days ago and I'm still waiting on your answer.

 

Please answer my question.

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Justus,

 

On Sept 10, in post # 105 of the, 'God's Ways Are Not Our Ways' thread you claimed that true science is founded upon principles which are fixed and unalterable and which govern and regulate the universe and nature - which is an abridged version of your Thomas Paine quote in this thread.

 

On Sept 11, in post # 117, I challenged you about your claim to know what 'true' science is.

 

You've made the claim twice now and still haven't taken up my challenge by answering the question I put to you.

 

The onus is squarely on you to do this.

 

I have chronological precedence over you in this matter.

 

I'm under no obligation to address anything you write until you address my outstanding challenge.

 

I can repeat the challenge and the question in this thread if that suits you.

 

The next move is yours.

 

 

 

 

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What I find strange is justus (a self proclaimed christian) quoting thomas paine, an anti-christian man through and through. The age of reason anyone?

 

I am not sure which of the man-made 41,000+ christian sects justus belongs to, but is that where he is at, a christian quoting an anti-christian to prove his falsehoods? 

 

Also by quoting thomas paine, a mere mortal man, justus once again disobeys scripture in making flesh (man) his arm (strength). 

 

Thus saith the LORD; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the LORD. Jeremiah 17:5

 

Every time a christian quotes another man and his wisdom, he departs from the lord and his wisdom thereby bringing god's curse upon his own head.

 

If there was a hell, it would be full of christians.  

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I don't think Justus is a Christian.  This is a game to him.

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What I find strange is justus (a self proclaimed christian) quoting thomas paine, an anti-christian man through and through. The age of reason anyone?

 

I am not sure which of the man-made 41,000+ christian sects justus belongs to, but is that where he is at, a christian quoting an anti-christian to prove his falsehoods? 

 

Also by quoting thomas paine, a mere mortal man, justus once again disobeys scripture in making flesh (man) his arm (strength). 

 

Thus saith the LORD; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the LORD. Jeremiah 17:5

 

Every time a christian quotes another man and his wisdom, he departs from the lord and his wisdom thereby bringing god's curse upon his own head.

 

If there was a hell, it would be full of christians.  

 

Yes, MyMistake is right Catt.

 

Justus doesn't consider himself to be a Christian, even tho' his profile clearly says that he's an, 'Authentic Christian Believer'.

 

Go figure!  Wendyshrug.gif

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Justus,

 

On Sept 10, in post # 105 of the, 'God's Ways Are Not Our Ways' thread you claimed that true science is founded upon principles which are fixed and unalterable and which govern and regulate the universe and nature - which is an abridged version of your Thomas Paine quote in this thread.

 

On Sept 11, in post # 117, I challenged you about your claim to know what 'true' science is.

 

You've made the claim twice now and still haven't taken up my challenge by answering the question I put to you.

 

The onus is squarely on you to do this.

 

I have chronological precedence over you in this matter.

 

I'm under no obligation to address anything you write until you address my outstanding challenge.

 

I can repeat the challenge and the question in this thread if that suits you.

 

The next move is yours.

 

(Bump!)

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • Super Moderator

Nine days have passed since BAA "Bumped" you, Justus.  As a scientist myself, I'm sure you already know I have a fair amount of contention with what you have already stated in this thread.  However, deferring to BAA, I expect you to finish your business with him before I start any with you.

 

Please address the challenge.

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