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Goodbye Jesus

The Older I Get, The More My Family Seem Like Unthinking Zombies


Prometheus

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I just got off the phone with my sister.  I called her to congratulate her on her new baby (she's 20 and just had her first child). I couldn't believe how vanilla she seemed. She seems to entirely lack any semblance of a personality. I have three sisters. I almost feel like, apart from the difference in their voices, they don't really have anything that makes them distinct. They seem like clones of each other.  And I can say this about almost all the Christians I meet. They are all "vanilla". None of them are expressive.

 

I would love to meet a Christian some day, that simply spoke their mind. But none of them do. All they are able to do is repeat what they've heard. Conversely, whenever I speak my mind to my family, they respond with... "Yeah". Period.

 

Whenever I go home for the holidays, I feel a sense of dread as if I'm going into a demonic battle zone of clones. I prepare to mute my thoughts, censor my speech, and simply "turn off" my mind when I walk into my parents' house, lest I be expelled for thinking.

 

Here's an example of the vanilla-ness of my family. Whenever I ask anyone in my family a question that requires a qualitative answer, they respond, almost 100 percent of the time, with the adjective "good" backed by a saccharine sense of optimism and happiness.

 

How was your week?

"It was good!"

 

How was dinner?

"It was good!"

 

How is your new baby?

"She's good!"

 

How are you?

"I'm good!"

 

It annoys me to no end, and it makes conversation mind-numbingly boring.  If I'm participating in a conversation, I want to talk to the person underneath the religion—but in my opinion Christians destroy the person inside themselves and replace it with a false construct. I value true connection, and that means true honesty.  But I truly, honestly believe that Christianity squashes any ability in a human to be honest, because TO BE A CHRISTIAN, one must be inherently dishonest—dishonest to their intuition, dishonest to reason, and dishonest to their emotions. To be a Christian, one is essentially required to turn off one's brain. As I become a better communicator, the more I see that this turning off of the brain passes into other areas of life, such as communication.

 

My question is, are most religious people in general like this, or just the Christian zombies? I don't want to pass judgement unless it is due.

 

Aggravatedly,

Prometheus

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Not every Christian is like that, and there are ways to end up that way without Christianity. But it does seem that there are more people like that inside Christianity than outside. At least in middle class white protestants, dunno how universal this is. They think that "having a good witness" means showing how God makes them happy all the time, so that admitting negative feelings is betraying their god. Unless you're talking politics and how much you hate liberals and how they're going to destroy America; then they're allowed to display strong emotions. Any other time it's socially unacceptable to emote.

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There is a real way in which the minds of Christians are paralyzed by the God Meme, and thus you are largely right in your observations.  Christianity substitutes a religious judgment for a human judgment.  The human sees something with his eyes and would describe a corresponding belief, except that Christianity would have him see and believe something different.  The way to do that is to flip the "OFF" switch in their mind and have them describe someone else's hallucination:  "Faith is assurance about what we do not see."  Hebrews 11:1 (NIV).  Or, as Mark Twain put it:  "Faith is believing what you know ain't so."  

 

Half of the Bible is written with the purpose and effect of persuading the reader that what seems to the reader to be true is not true.  Proverbs 12:15:  "The way of fools seems  right to them."  Proverbs 14:12, 16:25:  "There is a way that seems right to a man, but in the end it leads to death."   "The LORD knows the thoughts of man; he knows that they are futile."  Psalm 94:11.  Fffffuuuuckkk, futile?   Thus the Christian has to constantly speak words that aren't his own.  Those disabling words of the Bible.  But what is a man?  What has he got?  If not himself, then he has naught.  To say the things he truly feels -- and not the words of one who kneels.  The record shows, I took the blows, and did it my way!  -- Frank Sinatra

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Great lyrics, those.

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I can relate.  I can't have a conversation with my brother without him repeating the word "bless".

 

blah blah blah "We have been greatly blessed!"  yada yada yada "That has been such a blessing!"  . . . . "I've been so blessed!" . . . 

 

And his way of saying good by is "Blessings!"

 

WendyDoh.gif

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+100! Maybe not every xtian is like that, but every one I know is... (fundy).

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Whenever I go home for the holidays, I feel a sense of dread as if I'm going into a demonic battle zone of clones. I prepare to mute my thoughts, censor my speech, and simply "turn off" my mind when I walk into my parents' house, lest I be expelled for thinking.

 

Here's an example of the vanilla-ness of my family. Whenever I ask anyone in my family a question that requires a qualitative answer, they respond, almost 100 percent of the time, with the adjective "good" backed by a saccharine sense of optimism and happiness.

 

How was your week?

"It was good!"

 

How was dinner?

"It was good!"

 

How is your new baby?

"She's good!"

 

How are you?

"I'm good!"

 

It annoys me to no end, and it makes conversation mind-numbingly boring.

Aggravatedly,

Prometheus

 

Prometheus, I didn't mean to burst out laughing at this, but I did. So incredibly sorry...but I also have a family exactly like this (including a very quiet hubby) and I absolutely dread all the occasions. Mine all answer: 'Yep' or 'cool'. I nearly go crazy. None of them really want to talk and if I didn't entertain the whole time it would be completely silent!!! Wendytwitch.gif It exhausts me completely. I always so glad when they go home.

I do love them but it's hard to take. Last year I gave my girl a dishwasher for X-mas and she said, ''Cool'' zDuivel7.gif  For fucks sake, can't they even try to jump up and down a little????? 

 

I don't think all christians or people are like this. It all depends on the personality. I used to have some pretty good conversations with my christians friends...but there were also those ones who would just answer, ''Good''.

 

I'm sorry you have to endure this, I really am.....

 

(Hug)

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The completely un-profound conversations you mentioned above ("everything is good") reminds me of the time I spent in church as an adult, at a stodgy Presby church.

 

Talking to the other adults in fellowship hour consisted only of bland discussions of the kids and what was going on that weekend.  Which was always "good."  Everything was always fine.  

 

And we tried a couple of bible studies and various small groups, and it was the same.  Everybody agreed that god was "good" and the world was "bad."  After over ten years of being heavily involved in that church (teaching sunday school, helping with vbs, being deacons) I can honestly say I never really knew anybody there.  When we got divorced and left, nobody called.  I guess since things quit being "good" with us, they no longer knew what to say to us.

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I was a bit younger about 16/17/18 but I thought that I was a testimony or "signpost" for christianity/god. this meant I had to be/look happy and super content and buzzing with life to the fullest potential (similar to motivational talk crap) all the time for the benefit of those who were visiting or new to the church. I had to demonstrate this in conversation too (plus the cultural way we talk in new zealand and in particular my church is very non-committal) made conversation very dull. there were some very funny people there and conversations were good but i don't think they ever expressed themselves, which is a different thing. I just told everyone things were "good" or "cool" or if things were tough the most I would say is "busy". I felt that not being my 110% equaled with betraying god, (this may be where creepy christian fake-nice smiles come from). of course the 110% was composed 0% of what i actually thought or felt, replaced with bible/chrisitan talk and sermons.

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I was a bit younger about 16/17/18 but I thought that I was a testimony or "signpost" for christianity/god. this meant I had to be/look happy and super content and buzzing with life to the fullest potential (similar to motivational talk crap) all the time for the benefit of those who were visiting or new to the church. I had to demonstrate this in conversation too (plus the cultural way we talk in new zealand and in particular my church is very non-committal) made conversation very dull.

 

-snip-

 

I felt that not being my 110% equaled with betraying god, (this may be where creepy christian fake-nice smiles come from). of course the 110% was composed 0% of what i actually thought or felt, replaced with bible/chrisitan talk and sermons.

SCM I like the way you described that. I went through the same thing. I always wanted to look bright and enlightened and I flaunted my "healed soul" any chance I got, to show people that Jesus was real and I was "living proof" of the fact. Lacey Sturm was my role model and I tried to portray her attitude and her devotion/dedication to the lord. I would watch videos of her testimony almost every week to instill the belief that the Biblical God was the one and only god, and that everyone needs to know him. When I was around non-Christians, I tried to display an enlightened attitude and i started to refrain from swearing/dirty jokes more often. Constantly trying to be that example while constantly not expressing myself.

 

I noticed I was acting so fake. Trying to act peaceful and "free" when inside, I was struggling with things that were sins in god's eyes, and I was having a hard time giving them up for god. I always felt so heavily convicted, so heavy hearted to give up my sins of the flesh, so I could bear the fruits of the spirit. It psychologically damaged me, where I would cry and pray to god if I knew I commited a sin, or if I failed to follow one of god's promptings to share christ with somebody. I constantly felt guilty for the double life I was living outside of the church, but at church I put on my spiritually healed face and tried to act holy and close to god.

 

My mind was warped into believing that everything was either "sinful" or "unsinful." I would always hesitate to do something to make sure it wasn't a sin. I felt convicted before my 21st birthday, for example. i felt like God was calling on me to take a stand by not going to the bar on my birthday, and to set an example by living a sober life, because scripture references being sober and alert in order to pray and connect with God. my religion caused me to feel guilt over this and i almost didnt go to the bar.  (of course, i did go)

 

As soon as I took a step back and asked "Do I really believe in all of this?", I realized I was brain washed, because I didn't feel like the things I was doing at the time were sins, and I didn't get why doing something like getting drunk (responsibly) once in a while or living with your unmarried, non-believer partner was such a big deal. i was tired of feeling guilty for the things i did that didn't harm myself or anyone else. and then i looked at how i was talking and acting and it was clear that i was living a double life. At church/around christians/at work: acting happy and enlightened. Alone/outside of church, struggling with guilt, sadness, confusion of self, and conflict between what i wanted and what the biblical god wanted me to be like. finally i said "fuck this, i'm just gonna be."

 

Honestly, I never became that holy Christian girl I imagined in my head. It was all a delusion, all a lie. I was denying how I truly felt about religion/god/the universe, to try to match up with what the Bible taught me. I tried to say things like "This was a blessing." "Thank God/Jesus" "Praise the Lord" and things of that nature. And other times I'd swear and speak in ways that were "unholy." I felt divided into 2 different faces, 2 different people. And one of them wasn't the real me.

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Pity about the term "vanilla".. I'm rather fond of that flavour of ice-cream.  And yoghurt.

 

Leaving that aside, yes there are an awful lot of characterless Christians - people who are busy trying to be what they think that they are expected to be.  Which generally equates with the truly horrific epithet: "nice".

 

Are all Christians like this?  No.  Some are doctrinal firebrands forever looking for a verbal fight to show how clever they are.  Such are just as objectionable, but for entirely different reasons.

 

Are other religious people like this?  Depends on the religion and the individual.  I doubt you would describe a jihadi as "vanilla".  But I have seen some cloying apparent "niceness" in the context of "new age" types and even when I've seen Buddhists on the media.  But that may be unfair - I don't actually know any Buddhists personally.

 

And on the basis that my wife has again told me today how obnoxious I can be (didn't quite behave as she would have liked this morning when some Christians were doing daft things) I am reasonably confident that I'm not a vanilla pagan...!

 

It probably depends upon the degree to which the "religion" is structured around a moral code with promises of happiness and well-being, as modified by the strength of personality of the individual.

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My in laws are like that and family gatherings, which happen quite often, are mind-numbing experiences. But I don't think it's because they're hardcore Christians, it's more that they are just inherently not very curious or educated people. Now the two could be intertwined cause afterall, religion requires ignorance to perpetuate.

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FlowerDemon -When you actually become sinless (or close) its much worse. you practically do or feel nothing because you don't want to be sinful. you never go out, you have to show disapproval at any dirty jokes, or any suggestion of sinful behavior. you have to bring God into your conversations with christian friends even. the whole thing feels white, cold and still/stagnant. you can never release less-than perfect expressions or frustrations, like you can't emotionally breathe. it's not right, one of the reasons i even deconverted was because i started seeing how real non-christians talked and what their relationships/lives looked like, and it was so much better, and easy, you could live almost without effort. how could a perfect god prescribe a cure that had no clue about how humans actually operated? didn't he design psychology?

 

 for people who think sin is unavoidable and they get forgiven for it anyways, christians really haven't learnt how to live with sin yet.

some of the more liberal chrisitan denomonations accept/live with your sinful side more, but you can't really get away with saying "embrace your sin!" and still have a church by the end of the sermon.

 

For fun, here are some legal christian emotions:

Happy

Good/Nice

Overflowing with the spirit, or forgivness, or guilt/righteous repenting

Disapproval (of sin)

anger (at sin or politics or those people doing sinful things or our oppression)

 

 

Remember a fair portion of the bible is spent on breaking people down (trust in god, lean not on your own understanding, numerous "you stupid humans are dirt and barely fit to worship my shit!" -paraphrased, deny your self, selfish ways are sin etc. thus expressing something you feel is usually equated as being sin because it it/you are selfish so everything your doing that's not blowing god is sin/selfish. another angle as others here have pointed out, christianity and education aren't friends.Neither are most "worldly" films, games, current events, art etc. maybe knowing your going to live forever allows you to be happy living a mundane unexciting life, thus breeding boring conversation.

I'd say christianity just gets you used to swapping out your own opinions for what God thinks, so in conversation your talking to their submitting/lobotomizing themselves to God complex.         

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I had a best friend from around 14 years old that had a great unique out going personality and thought deeply about everything, at 23 he got himself 'saved' and it has been downhill ever since. He is shallow and boring with just the usual generic points ever talked about. If I start to tell him about anything of depth, he always tells me that he thought I was going to say (enter statement from a ten year old child here). It really is sad that these people throw away their real lives for this delusional crap.

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I know atheists that sound like that too. I think people tend to reach a zombie phase in their lives at some point and become intensely boring. Or else they are very uninterested in talking to you. Or you aren't talking about whatever topic they still find interesting. I know a lot of people that barely speak in a conversation unless you hit on their one topic they care about. It's like a light bulb switching on and off. Bring up what they love and they suddenly can talk for hours. Bring up something they don't care about and they have barely anything to say. This can vary by topic and who they're talking to. They might find talking to YOU about things is only worthy of one word answers, but with someone else they can talk endlessly and enthusiastically about the same topic.

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As we all know, Christianity does tend to make one not trust their own thoughts and desires.  "Empty myself to be filled with Christ" bullshit.  It leaves many as a shell of their former self...sometimes it's partially for the better, say, if they were able to break free of drug addiction, but there's quite a cost.

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.  

 

 Everybody agreed that god was "good" and the world was "bad." 

So the creator , created a bad world, even thou He was good 

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I love this place. I have just started posting and so many things you all say really resonate with me. I literally have to look at everything through fresh eyes and not through bible framed glasses. Conversations were for edifying each other or praising God. I can identify with the blandness you speak of and probably have some myself.

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Whenever I ask anyone in my family a question that requires a qualitative answer, they respond, almost 100 percent of the time, with the adjective "good" backed by a saccharine sense of optimism and happiness.

 

Have you considered the possibility that you are being dismissed?   Perhaps they find you boring.

 

To me you sound intelligent and probably quite engaging, but other people might find you tiresome.

 

It's all relative.

 

 

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Whenever I ask anyone in my family a question that requires a qualitative answer, they respond, almost 100 percent of the time, with the adjective "good" backed by a saccharine sense of optimism and happiness.

 

Have you considered the possibility that you are being dismissed?   Perhaps they find you boring.

 

To me you sound intelligent and probably quite engaging, but other people might find you tiresome.

 

It's all relative.

 

Or they could find you too challenging.  You are actually thinking and may be asking questions that require thought!  

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