Mychainsaregone Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 Please permit me a rant at the effed up weekend I just had... I spent the weekend with a devout Christian friend whom I haven't seen in a few years. The last time we met, we were on a year out evangelism team thing and she was a bright, bubbly, joy-filled girl whom everyone loved. This weekend, she is a fragile, little shell of her former self thanks to a complete sh1t of a Christian husband and the vile, marital advice she has received from "wise, Godly" Christians in her life. She and I had always come from very different viewpoints on relationships - hers belonging in the Disney complementarian model (IMO!) and mine in the egalitarian camp - and unfortunately, she seems to have experienced complimentarianism at its very worst. On the evening I arrived, I listened to her sob and tell her story for over three hours while I sat there, silent and fuming. (At that point I hadn't told her about my new found freedom from xtianity as I thought it might not have been the right time.) On the outside, her husband looked like a handsome, popular, talented, "godly" (puke) influential Christian guy. But he basically was a jealous and insecure little man who initially must have fell in love with her warmth and zeal for life and then started to despise that about her, and set out to destroy it. He said it was 'unwise' (this word was used against her constantly - never outright forbidding anything, but exerting subtle control by insinuating she was being selfish or immature by not doing what he wanted) to 1. hang out with guys or have guy friends 2. to have friendships, ministry, church or her career ahead of him. So one by one, he asked her to give each of those up to prove that he was number 1 in her life. And my strong, confident, bright, beautiful friend did it because that was what she was advised by friends and Christian leadership to do in order to fix her broken marriage. Their sex life was f'ed up but he forced her anyway - rape basically - and again, this doesn't seem to have been cause for concern for those 'counselling' them - she was told by a few different older women in her church that this was her duty to sexually satisfy him, regardless of how she felt about it. He criticised her and ran her down until she reached breaking point and then completely out of character presumably due to her fragile emotional state, she kissed a guy from her job and her husband caught them in the act! And of course his response was 'this proves what I always knew about you!' and kicked her out of the house. She is now living at home with her parents, he has taken all their (incredibly judgmental by the sounds of it) friends with him ('how could you do this to him? I don't know how to relate to you anymore'), and she has no church community, ministry, barely has a faith left and is basically known as a fallen woman. Meanwhile, Mr Upstanding Wronged Husband is being comforted and consoled. She is blaming herself and doesn't see how abusive he and their church have been to her but I hope she realises in time. But oh man, what a disgusting theological and pastoral system! ARGH 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 I hope she gets a good lawyer and sues his ass for everything he owns. You are right that Christianity does this to people because it still holds the values from the Iron Age. Religion can't admit it was wrong. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilith666 Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 Welcome to Ex-C... but wow. Abusive relationships can break you down and mess with your head - sounds like that is what happened to your friend. I hope she will get healthy, secular counseling and understand how wrong he was and what a trap she was in. It's great you're there to support her. You two should stay in touch. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llwellyn Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 I'm so sorry for her grief and for yours. This is a terrible situation and will take a lot of clever thinking, originality and flexibility to solve. It will require skills and traits that they have not yet exhibited and perhaps aren't going to be able to summon up in order to create a solution. First, she needs to have half of the wealth of the household -- he does not get to "kick" her out of "his" home. They make compromises from positions of equality and mutuality. The law is on her side and says that she is an equal partner in the marriage and is an equal owner of all the family wealth. Since when is it so problematic for a woman in her position to kiss a co-worker? Sounds pretty natural, foreseeable, and trifling. Under the circumstances, perhaps she should also be having sex with the co-worker. If the two of them can't work this event into a dialectic of growth and compromise, then they should divorce. Because sending her away as a "fallen" woman just because of some illicit nookie is just ridiculous. She needs a new family of goodwill and rationality. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StillLooking Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 I feel really sorry for your friend and I can feel your frustration. It is a sad story but I am afraid is typical in christian marriage. Is it possible for her to see a secular therapist asap? She needs to have her confidence and self worth restored first. Then she can file divorce from her husband with a full fledged knowledge and awareness of her rights. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mychainsaregone Posted October 9, 2015 Author Share Posted October 9, 2015 Thank you for your replies. Yes, I have recommended all of the above - her and her husband will be meeting a mediator shortly to divide their assets. Unfortunately, she's still very much stuck in the Xtianity thing and won't consider a secular therapist or new ways of thinking about what has happened and who she is. But I have told her I am here for her and I will always seek to remind her of her value to me and to others, even if she's being treated as worthless or 'fallen' by others. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amateur Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 It sounds like a horrible situation for your friend. All you can do is be her friend and listen. You can offer whatever advice you like, but it's up to her to decide what she wants to do. You can't force anything on her. She's had enough of that already. If all of this has happened for her fairly recently, then she's still in shock and needs to just take time to let it all process. Encourage her to slowly get things together as far as financial issues, where she'd like to live (as opposed to staying with her parents forever), making new friends and finding new interests outside of any church settings. Are there any museum or art galleries or public gardens nearby that the two of you can go to and walk around and talk while looking at art or flowers? Any ethnic restaurants to go to with her, enjoy new food, and see completely different people than church people? Any gentle exercise class you can attend with her like a beginner's yoga or tai chi (I used to go to a gym that offered "Yoga for Grieving People" and anyone with any type of grief was welcome; no need to discuss the grief, just gentle, quiet yoga done together). Having been through a horrible divorce myself (they're all awful), I was grateful for anybody that would listen to me, but also I liked when I went out with someone and did something different while they still let me talk. Looking at art or flowers or eating different food gave me something pleasant to focus on rather than just the shitty divorce! It was helpful. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miamia Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 Oh I weep for this poor woman! I hope she knows her legal rights and grabs hold of them. when my mom kicked my dad out for watching porn (after not having sex with him for 10+ years and making him sleep on the couch), she only let him see us for 1/2 hour once a week, In public, despite the fact that he was the sole financial provider at the time. It never even occurred to him to contact a lawyer, so stuck he was in his guilt, because of his beliefs, and the pressure of the church. Different situation but it's caused by the same type of illogical rules. People have rights dammit! argggg. But from a religious perspective, giving into a normal biological urge even after a lifetime of oppression is damnable. At times like this I almost wish prayer served an actual function. Sending good vibes I guess. oh the frustration and anger 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astreja Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 Would that I had the power to inflict a month-long case of screaming, gnaw-your-own-leg-off pancreatitis on that bastard. I agree that she should get a tough, tough lawyer. I also recommend counseling from someone who is knowledgeable in domestic abuse cases, so that she understands fully what he did to her. I disagree with staging a confrontation at the church. In the long run it's better to go the other way, no contact at all with anyone from her former church. I also have a gut feeling that it might sabotage her divorce proceedings -- Never give ammo to your adversary. She might also benefit from finding a new church community to belong to (maybe UU?), so that she isn't going through a divorce and deconversion simultaneously. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llwellyn Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 You say she is not open to new ways of thinking about what has happened and who she is. Show her this video story: "MORMON SEXUAL REPRESSION" maybe she'll have enough distance from the story that she can learn from it, applying any lessons to her own life: "It just becomes this huge issue in your marriage because you're told that it's hurting you. You're told that this is supposed to hurt you. It doesn't have to hurt you. You can look at it with real human eyes. And step out of that mindframe. I was thinking I had to end this marriage because of that one thing. I'm just so glad we're past that. I'm really glad I didn't throw him in the garbage because of something so stupid." http://www.iamanexmormon.com/cycle-of-guilt/ "Families are Together Forever. My name is Kerri Bodie and I'm an Ex Mormon." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milesaway Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 I am so sorry for what happened to your friend. He had no right to treat her that way, xtian or not, and she deserved so much better out of him. He never deserved her, and from the sounds of it, she was always out of his league. She didn't deserve this from him, and she didn't deserve the treatment she got out of her former church. Unfortunately the fact that they chose to rally around her abuser seems to be the norm in this case. Think about how the congregations where there were abusive church leaders who've been caught rallied around the perpetrator and threw the victims under the bus. It's basically the same concept. Groupthink is an ugly thing, and I'm sorry her friends abandoned her like that. They chose their beliefs over a suffering friend, and that's a reflection of who they are. The best I can do is suggest that you make plans with her, let her grieve this relationship and her former church. They may have been shitty people, but they're still a loss on some level, even if it's not something tangible. Also it might help her to talk to the people at www.rainn.org, and www.thehotline.org. Even though I'm a random Internet stranger, I'm still rooting for her anyway! I believe in her as a survivor, and I believe her story. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlowerDemon Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 Even though this whole thing is mostly the husbands fault, she could have left him before she kissed the guy at her job. i mean i know she was at her ends wit and whatnot, but this situation could have been handled better if she would have left him before it got to that point. Was he abusive to the point where he made her feel like she couldnt leave? Why did she stay with him that long, to the point to where she was driven to kiss another guy? I'm not saying she deserved this at all. I think what he did was really fucked up and she didn't deserve that. But the situation could have been less rocky if she just left before it got that bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellinas Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 Seems to me a problem here is that many of the suggestions (and I particularly like the more combative ones) depend on her having the strength to turn herself into a vengeful fighter. Sounds to me like she is not in that category. And that is worrying, in a way. It leaves open the possibility that she'll find herself a serial victim, sucked into further relationships of the same sort. If you can encourage her to stand up for herself and to abandon the mindset that has brought this about, well and good. But take it quietly at this stage. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dichotomy Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 Is there anything like "The freedom programme" where you live? I'm not sure what country you're in? This is a copy of the pamphlet they give out and it looks like it is very relevant and would be suitable and helpful for her. I am pretty certain this programme is Christian, or at least the organisation is Christian based (but in a UK sense which means it'll be open to all faiths and those with non and also those who work on it won't necessarily be Christian) so something like this may be more acceptable to her? I think they have a book. Perhaps you could order it, have a read yourself and see if you think it would be suitable and acceptable to her? Obviously I'm fuming and terribly sad for your friend. Abuse is hideous in every circumstance but when it is part of a bigger systematic picture it's very hard to see. Her entire worldview is at risk here and this will make her very vulnerable. She's not only dealing with her abusive partner, but her abusive church community and her destructive belief system/faith, she may find it too hard to challenge the former when she relies so heavily on the latter and is still somewhat dependent on, in need of validation from the middle. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mychainsaregone Posted October 14, 2015 Author Share Posted October 14, 2015 Thanks everyone, especially to those wishing her well. I don't think she is in a vengeance place as she still doesn't see how so much of this was not her fault but with time, I hope she will come to realise that he needs to take responsibility for his behaviour. That being said, as satisfying as it would be to punish or humiliate the guy publicly (believe me, I've fantasized about it!) I don't wish that on him and I don't think she does or will either - it would continue the spiral of hatred, anger and control and I think she would like to break that cycle, by simply being strong, honest and assertive and holding him accountable for what he has done when she is ready. Unfortunately, we live in different countries so I don't get to spend much time with her but I will certainly send on some of the resources you guys have shared. FlowerDemon, the 'why didn't she just leave' question is commonly asked of domestic abuse victims and unfortunately, it's a lot more complicated than that. Here's an article that addresses some of the reasons why women don't leave abusive relationships: http://m1psychology.com/why-didnt-she-leave/ 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
★ Citsonga ★ Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 Wow, what horrible pieces of shit those faithful Christians are. I am so sorry for your friend. I wish her the best as she sorts through this, and good luck to you as you help and comfort her. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Margee Posted October 15, 2015 Moderator Share Posted October 15, 2015 Seems to me a problem here is that many of the suggestions (and I particularly like the more combative ones) depend on her having the strength to turn herself into a vengeful fighter. Sounds to me like she is not in that category. And that is worrying, in a way. It leaves open the possibility that she'll find herself a serial victim, sucked into further relationships of the same sort. If you can encourage her to stand up for herself and to abandon the mindset that has brought this about, well and good. But take it quietly at this stage. She is very lucky to have a friend like you Mychainsaregone. The reason I'd like to quote Ellinas is because I think this is right on the mark. Until I started the deconverting from christianity, I didn't have the balls to stand up to anything or anyone. (except in business affairs) I questioned everything and every behavior of humans and the church when I was feeling very hurt. My gut always told me something was wrong but I would get talked out of it by others who were trying to be good and godly. (including the church) They tried to make me see the bright side of everyone no matter how abusive they were. This precious girl is trying everything in her power to be the 'good, godly girl'. My heart bleeds for her and if she doesn't learn how to stand up for herself, she will suffer because people like to walk all over ''goodists''. I sure hope you can help her because these traumatic incidences can turn a soft heart into a very cold heart. Again I say, she is very lucky to have you. Best wishes for showing so much care. I hope she recovers from this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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