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Goodbye Jesus

Convoluted Escape Planning! Yay!


LadyNightingale

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Okay so, I've been trying to figure out a plan to move out with minimal drama. Since my mom wanted me to go to a Christian residential program, maybe I could just say I've gotten accepted into their program. She obviously wouldn't accost me at trying to go to the airport. Hell she might even drive me to the airport.

 

It would take huge amounts subterfuge. I would actually have to apply to the program and go along far enough with the application process to get them send me something so I can falsify an acceptance letter into their program.

 

This is a really convoluted plot and it would probably destroy any chance I had with making up in the future with my mother. But, it's so tempting to go through with this plot, I HATE confrontation. It's also not honest but, I'm not sure I can explain anything without my mother calling the cops in an attempt to "save me." I'm sure she would think I've been lured into a trap. She'd probably think I've been captured and forced into gay drug sex prostitution or something like that.

 

Anyone who's gone through moving out of a controlling household have any advice, feedback and/or ideas?

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I can see your thinking, kind of, although I admit I have very limited understanding and experience of this kind of OTT controlling religious families so bear that in mind with my reply, but I do have experience of women leaving abusive partners.

 

I'm not entirely sure that going along with her plan, lying, applying for the place etc. is a good idea. I'd be concerned that a, she might manage to get you into it by taking your herself, coming along with you on the plane etc. and that you'd then struggle to get away, and b, it could destroy any future relationship and assistance from her or other family in the future. The latter may not seem that bad at this moment in time, but you may live to regret it.

 

 In the case of women leaving abusive relationships, here in the UK we have quite a lot of services, charities etc. who are fantastic at getting people out. Sadly less so for men leaving abusive partners, but they do exist too. I'm certain there'd be similar where you are, but I don't know if they aid teens/adult children to leave abusive parents.

 

But what the likes of women's aid would do is get the police involved, encourage you to gather evidence of harrassment, abuse, control etc. they'd help you to make a financial get out plan and also a physical practical get out plan, but they do so by either helping you find a friend or family member to stay with or moving you into  shelter/hostel/refuge. Usually in cases where the controlling abuser cannot know that the person is leaving them the have it planned for a specific day and it's a case of when they're not there you chuck all your belongings that you definitely want, and important documents into a few bags, jump into a taxi and go to your destination, it's a rush job and disappearing act. In other cases though, they support you in informing the abusive individual that you are leaving them and that is often where the police are involved so's that they know that things *could* get difficult but they're already aware of the situation and are on alert to come if a call is made. The latter happened with my friend and her spouse was claiming she had mental health issues and was a risk to the children etc. but the police and social services were already aware of this so when *he* called the police/childservices he found himself to be the one that they dealt with not her.

 

If there is something like this in your area I would definitely recommend looking into it and seeing if they can at least give you advice if nothing more. 

 

Whatever you do, good planning and organisation is a must I expect. Sorry not to be of any real help.

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I can see your thinking, kind of, although I admit I have very limited understanding and experience of this kind of OTT controlling religious families so bear that in mind with my reply, but I do have experience of women leaving abusive partners.

 

I'm not entirely sure that going along with her plan, lying, applying for the place etc. is a good idea. I'd be concerned that a, she might manage to get you into it by taking your herself, coming along with you on the plane etc. and that you'd then struggle to get away, and b, it could destroy any future relationship and assistance from her or other family in the future. The latter may not seem that bad at this moment in time, but you may live to regret it.

 

 ...

 

No, you bring up good points. I see the overlap. But, like I said, convoluted plotting. I'm a bit of a coward. I actually did realize how stupid of a plan this is after I hit submit. Lol.

 

I imagine she would stay with me on the plane. She also would most likely find something to expose me. But, the thing is she has all my vital documents and I don't know where they are. I do know they are all together but, I'm not sure what to tell her to get her to give it to me.

 

And I actually do worry a lot about destroying relationships with my family but, I also need my distance. Might just be my state of mind right now but, I'm somehow doubtful they'll forgive me for everything after this is over, unless I had a come-to-Jesus moment.

 

I think a grand disappearance like you described is in order. If I live a note behind telling the truth, maybe in the future I can salvage something? This is difficult.

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But, the thing is she has all my vital documents and I don't know where they are. I do know they are all together but, I'm not sure what to tell her to get her to give it to me.

 

 

 

I see from your profile that you are 19. Maybe someone else can chime in on getting your legal documents -- seems like she cannot withhold them from you. If you can't get them from her, I would do some internet searching to find out what you need to do to go get your own copy of your birth certificate and your social security card. I would jump on this right away. Drive to appropriate governing offices. Jump through their hoops to prove who you are and get what you need (school documents, driver's license, whatever you have and whatever they suggest). I assume they have to help you with this, since you are a legal adult. The birth certificate might cost you a few bucks.

 

I would not attempt to go out on your own in any way without proper ID. You'll have trouble renting a place, getting on a plane, getting education loans/grants, and probably even getting a job without some sort of documentation.

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I don't know your entire situation, so take my commentary for what it's worth:  I think it would be a huge mistake to lie to your mother in the way you are describing.  Like it or not, you will probably be interacting with her for as long as the two of you shall live -- this would pretty seriously poison the relationship.  You owe her the truth, and you owe it to yourself to tell the truth.  Knowingly lying about this kind of thing is part of a habit -- which already exists, or which will be, by degrees created, of lying.  That habit is no good.  Tell her the truth -- that you "HATE" confrontation is no excuse.  Start developing good habits.  

 

Don't be afraid of the police.  Since you are 19 years old, it is the police, on the scene, who would help you facilitate your freedom rather than limit it.  If you have a plan to talk to her, clear out of the home, and go somewhere else, then call the police and let them know what your plan is, and ask them to send a squad car at the right time.  Christianity tells us that "the law is a curse" -- but that's a trick that they use so that they can do whatever they want without interference.  The law and the police exists for the sake of "life liberty and the pursuit of happiness."  There are people on your side, the law is on your side.  And, under the right circumstances, with the right method, your mother could be on your side too.

 

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If you are 19, she has no right to withhold your documents. You should be the one calling the police if she is effectively holding you hostage by not letting you have your documents! I agree with the suggestions above. Start by getting your medical records. Even if you have been diagnosed as autistic, that is not grounds for your mother to remain in control of your life. Get copies of your vital docs and then get out! Most importantly, do everything you can to stay calm and rational. If the cops do get called, your mother will look like the crazy one if you come off calm and in control. Good luck

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I agree with the others, you need to find a way to get your i.d. whether that's by tellingyour mother directly thatyou want it or finding other ways to get it.

 

And I agree with llewllyn, lying is not the way forward. I think you need to find a way to be honest and frank. It doesn't even have to be in person, and it certainly needn't be an argument, but the truth would be better than making an elaborate plan involving many lies.

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Ok so I was looking it up, and while It would be risky to ask her then audio record her saying that she won't give you the documents (legally risky, look up the laws in your area) , you could text her or email her and ask for your documents, specify which ones in said text/email. If she refuses to give you the documents via text, you can show that to the police, and then she is in some shit. Look up the laws where you live. She may be dumb enough to fall for it. If she is anything like my mom, she probably believes she has a right to do what she is doing, so she may not even consider the legal implications of refusing to give you them via text. Do you think they are in her house? have you searched it? you live with her right?

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So sorry to hear you are in this situation.  Unless you think your mother would become violent I would recommend a more direct approach.  Miamia has some good ideas.

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I think you said you were currently in school. Many colleges have women's centers where you can go for local help. While we can offer you support and advice, they know local resources that can help you find a place to live and a means of support.

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Oh, and for the essential documents, you really don't need anything from your mom. You can get a birth certificate from the county where you were born, a social security card from Soc. Sec., and your med records from your docs.

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You are an adult. You have a right to whatever documents you want access to. You can easily get a certified copy of your birth certificate by contacting your Stare's bureau of vital statistics or whatever it is called in your state. It's an application, a small fee, and you'll have it in a few weeks. Same thing for your Social Security card. Simply report it as lost and get another copy. The personal documents are a simple, routine thing.

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There's been some studies that show that the kids of authoritarian parents aren't any "better" kids than ones raised in other households, but they are a lot better at lying. I've seen that a lot in myself, too. When your parents are control freaks who don't really care about how you feel or your rights, it's safer and easier to lie. I found myself lying to my friends out of habit, because I didn't trust anyone enough to be really honest with them all the time. And that was bad for all those other relationships.

 

Don't make a habit out of lying; it will only hurt you in the long run with sane people, not protect you. You don't have to trust everyone, but you don't have to lie to them either. The sorts of lies that you use to avoid confrontation with your mom... with normal people, those conversations don't become confrontational. People work things out like adults, respecting each others' autonomy. And even when people do get into fights, with sane people, you can work through that and be fine with each other after you've settled the issue. Once you realize that's possible, life is a lot less stressful.

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I escaped my mentally ill, controlling mom by renting a small apartment with my little savings, buying a second hand couch to sleep on, and just staying there enjoying the silence. When she found out she raged at me over the phone, but luckily my father was on my side and told her to treat me decently because at that point I could simply decide not to visit her anymore. She realized he was right and allowed me to get my stuff.

 

It was a difficult time in my life and I couldn't face confrontation with her because she would yell until the other person walked out, it was never a conversation like it is with most people.

 

The comment above mine (by Vacuum) - I wish I could upvote more than once! It was a huge realization for me that you can disagree with people, you can confront them, you can discuss difficult things without everything turning into a storm. Took me years after moving out to even start seeing that.

 

Btw I have lots of autistic traits too.

Hugs.

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Subterfuge is a bad idea.  Even if it works, it will only strengthen her hand as and when you next come face to face.

 

In order to break her authority, you need to assert your own.  I appreciate that you have no wish for confrontation.  Sometimes, however, it is unavoidable.

 

I cannot give you practical advice as we are in different countries with different legal systems.  All I can say is that you need to plan a direct route out based on your having somewhere to live and a means of support, and take that route regardless of any shouting and screaming - even replying with an equal volume of the same if need be.  It won't be pleasant, but that will be the shortest and surest route to freedom.

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Okay, I have to go to church in a little bit and I'll probably be awhile before I can get on today. I really appreciate all the replies but, I have to give a more full reply when I get back home. But I'll just say a little something right now.

 

Like I said in my last post maybe this is bad idea the more I think about it. It's comforting to know I can probably inform the police if I think there's going to be trouble. I don't like confrontation but, you are all right to say this isn't the way. I feel guilty for even having the idea.

 

I do know that it might have to be a letter. I know I won't be able to get a word in if I talk to her face to face. I might have to leave a letter and call her when I get settled in.

 

I still have a feeling I'll be kicked out of the family even if I am honest. :/

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If you are kicked out, that will be their doing, not yours.  Not easy either way, but at least not your responsibility.

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Oh and I also wanted to add, I'm already lying by visiting this site. She doesn't like me interacting with Internet people. I'm pretty sure I'm guilty as sin right about now. So yeah, I'm not the most moral person in the room.

 

 

Dumb question here.  Are you of legal age, over 18, over 21?  If you are, there is not a thing your mother can do to keep you in an institution unless there is a court order.  Even if your mother footed the bill for you to be there, if you are of legal age, they cannot hold you there.

 

Okay, I am 19 and I looked up the laws for my state and it says I have to show "imminent harm to self or others." It also mentioned they had to prove mental illness. I don't think anyone can just point to me and say "this woman is X and should be restrained immediately!" I also would imagine if I called the police and maybe explained the situation I would be less likely to be restrained and taken in for an evaluation.

 

You are indeed right in that no one can force me into treatment just because. But I do know that taking me in for a psych evaluation would mess things up. I don't want to stay longer than I have to. If she wanted to, I bet she has ways of delaying me and to have a chance to further guilt trip me.

 

 

 

 

 

But, the thing is she has all my vital documents and I don't know where they are. I do know they are all together but, I'm not sure what to tell her to get her to give it to me.

 

 

 

I see from your profile that you are 19. Maybe someone else can chime in on getting your legal documents -- seems like she cannot withhold them from you. If you can't get them from her, I would do some internet searching to find out what you need to do to go get your own copy of your birth certificate and your social security card. I would jump on this right away. Drive to appropriate governing offices. Jump through their hoops to prove who you are and get what you need (school documents, driver's license, whatever you have and whatever they suggest). I assume they have to help you with this, since you are a legal adult. The birth certificate might cost you a few bucks.

 

I would not attempt to go out on your own in any way without proper ID. You'll have trouble renting a place, getting on a plane, getting education loans/grants, and probably even getting a job without some sort of documentation.

  

If you are 19, she has no right to withhold your documents. You should be the one calling the police if she is effectively holding you hostage by not letting you have your documents! I agree with the suggestions above. Start by getting your medical records. Even if you have been diagnosed as autistic, that is not grounds for your mother to remain in control of your life. Get copies of your vital docs and then get out! Most importantly, do everything you can to stay calm and rational. If the cops do get called, your mother will look like the crazy one if you come off calm and in control. Good luck

  

I agree with the others, you need to find a way to get your i.d. whether that's by tellingyour mother directly thatyou want it or finding other ways to get it.

 

And I agree with llewllyn, lying is not the way forward. I think you need to find a way to be honest and frank. It doesn't even have to be in person, and it certainly needn't be an argument, but the truth would be better than making an elaborate plan involving many lies.

  

Ok so I was looking it up, and while It would be risky to ask her then audio record her saying that she won't give you the documents (legally risky, look up the laws in your area) , you could text her or email her and ask for your documents, specify which ones in said text/email. If she refuses to give you the documents via text, you can show that to the police, and then she is in some shit. Look up the laws where you live. She may be dumb enough to fall for it. If she is anything like my mom, she probably believes she has a right to do what she is doing, so she may not even consider the legal implications of refusing to give you them via text. Do you think they are in her house? have you searched it? you live with her right?

  

Oh, and for the essential documents, you really don't need anything from your mom. You can get a birth certificate from the county where you were born, a social security card from Soc. Sec., and your med records from your docs.

  

You are an adult. You have a right to whatever documents you want access to. You can easily get a certified copy of your birth certificate by contacting your Stare's bureau of vital statistics or whatever it is called in your state. It's an application, a small fee, and you'll have it in a few weeks. Same thing for your Social Security card. Simply report it as lost and get another copy. The personal documents are a simple, routine thing.

Okay, so I have a state issued ID and I have a copy (not certified) of my social security card. My ID should be enough to get a copy from the state. So it looks like she can't exactly hold me here because of that. That's a huge relief. So it's not necessary to lie about that sort of thing to get my essential documents. Good, good.

 

 

 

 

There's been some studies that show that the kids of authoritarian parents aren't any "better" kids than ones raised in other households, but they are a lot better at lying. I've seen that a lot in myself, too. When your parents are control freaks who don't really care about how you feel or your rights, it's safer and easier to lie. I found myself lying to my friends out of habit, because I didn't trust anyone enough to be really honest with them all the time. And that was bad for all those other relationships.

 

Don't make a habit out of lying; it will only hurt you in the long run with sane people, not protect you. You don't have to trust everyone, but you don't have to lie to them either. The sorts of lies that you use to avoid confrontation with your mom... with normal people, those conversations don't become confrontational. People work things out like adults, respecting each others' autonomy. And even when people do get into fights, with sane people, you can work through that and be fine with each other after you've settled the issue. Once you realize that's possible, life is a lot less stressful.

  

I escaped my mentally ill, controlling mom by renting a small apartment with my little savings, buying a second hand couch to sleep on, and just staying there enjoying the silence. When she found out she raged at me over the phone, but luckily my father was on my side and told her to treat me decently because at that point I could simply decide not to visit her anymore. She realized he was right and allowed me to get my stuff.

It was a difficult time in my life and I couldn't face confrontation with her because she would yell until the other person walked out, it was never a conversation like it is with most people.

The comment above mine (by Vacuum) - I wish I could upvote more than once! It was a huge realization for me that you can disagree with people, you can confront them, you can discuss difficult things without everything turning into a storm. Took me years after moving out to even start seeing that.

Btw I have lots of autistic traits too.

Hugs.

Fair enough, Vaccum makes a good point. I will just be honest. I know all teens lie to get or do something but, yeah I definitely shouldn't keep doing it. I mean my plan looks like I'm a dumb kid trying to runaway. Granted she'll see it like that no matter what I do but, I need to do it in a way that asserts the fact I am an adult.

 

 

I think part of the reason I don't want confrontation is because I know she has good friends who live in the same neighborhood and I'm afraid they might get involved and say I'm out of my gourd. So I'd just be out numbered.

 

I just want to make sure I'm not going to be somehow in a worse situation.

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I just want to make sure I'm not going to be somehow in a worse situation.

 

 

You know, I don't think you've mentioned how long this has been at crisis level. While we all seem to agree that it's time for you to move out, if you are not in immediate danger, taking time to make plans to insure success would be a prudent thing to do. The worst situation would be for you to leave and then have to come back.

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I understand you've given up subterfuge but I'm not clear. Does that mean you no longer plan to falsify applications and acceptance letters with the school? I think that would be taking things much too far, getting the school involved dishonestly that way. You might burn bridges you later want to cross, especially if word gets out in academic circles that you are the kind of person who does that. You might find it difficult to enter a secular school of your choice. I suggest it would be better to skip a year of school and return when you're settled than to falsify documents. But I think you already know this. I wish you the best of luck as you find your way to safety. Turning back on family and burning those bridges can be very painful but if that's the only way to save your sanity...I think you got some really good advice in this thread.

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I understand you've given up subterfuge but I'm not clear. Does that mean you no longer plan to falsify applications and acceptance letters with the school? I think that would be taking things much too far, getting the school involved dishonestly that way. You might burn bridges you later want to cross, especially if word gets out in academic circles that you are the kind of person who does that. You might find it difficult to enter a secular school of your choice. I suggest it would be better to skip a year of school and return when you're settled than to falsify documents. But I think you already know this. I wish you the best of luck as you find your way to safety. Turning back on family and burning those bridges can be very painful but if that's the only way to save your sanity...I think you got some really good advice in this thread.

I did. And I intended to use it. Puts my mind at ease.

 

It's a Christian residential program. A place for wayward women.

 

Not a school. That might be illegal.

 

You're right it was a risky idea. Having an idea isn't illegal.

 

And anyways, I'm not doing that. Not after getting good advice

 

I admit, I might have to submit an application or at least start one because shit really went down today. But canceling or telling someone I've changed my mind isn't illegal.

 

Edit: I think.

 

 

 

I just want to make sure I'm not going to be somehow in a worse situation.

 

You know, I don't think you've mentioned how long this has been at crisis level. While we all seem to agree that it's time for you to move out, if you are not in immediate danger, taking time to make plans to insure success would be a prudent thing to do. The worst situation would be for you to leave and then have to come back.
I know. That's why I've stayed as long as I have. In fact, I already have arrangements to move in with a friend who is seriously helping me.

 

I'm doing all I can to save up and leave.

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I'm still a little confused at your situation. You are a legal adult. You don't have to go anywhere you don't want to. Why are you still talking about submitting an application to a "residential program" for "wayward women"? Are they threatening to hog-tie you and drag you there kicking and screaming? I don't get it.

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I'm still a little confused at your situation. You are a legal adult. You don't have to go anywhere you don't want to. Why are you still talking about submitting an application to a "residential program" for "wayward women"? Are they threatening to hog-tie you and drag you there kicking and screaming? I don't get it.

 

I am to buy me time. I just need her to calm down, so I can figure stuff out. I just don't want her too do something rash. It's just me timing everything right. I know I sound crazy but, I won't even finish the essays they'll have me write, play phone tag... Etc.

 

Forget I said anything. Just confuses people.

 

Just going to keep the peace at home.

That's all.

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I should really know when to stop talking. I apologize.

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I should really know when to stop talking. I apologize.

No no, we're here trying to help you stay safe now and in the long run, so the questions we ask aren't to judge you, it's so we can help you better. It's hard to think straight when living with someone abusive, though of course you're the one who knows your situation better than any of us.

 

That sounds very good that you have a friend to help you. I was terrified about renting the apartment so my friend actually phoned the landlord pretending to be me, and set things going.

 

So your mom has many friends, I get that, but what can they really do? I have had my mom phone around the little town we lived in for "advice" when she thought I was going astray in my teens, and then told me about everyone she'd called and what they said, to make me feel bad. It surely didn't help my social phobias. Well, when I moved out, I left the little town. In bigger towns I had a clean slate, as the original social circles were tiny.

 

I only had to make sure I could afford it somehow, because of course the raging of my mom included stuff like "you'll return home crying", and it would have been horrible if she'd been right.

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