Guest end3 Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 We are much more forgiving of ourselves than others because we know ourselves. If we took the time to know others as well as we know ourselves, then we might find a little more grace for each other. Jesus says he would like our relationships to be analogous to his and God's.....which is eternal life. Double dog dare you atheist types to refute this. "Familiarity breeds contempt" A quote from someone that lived so long ago that I don't worry that I can't remember who. Consider your OP refuted. Can you show that my quote is any less true than whatever you think your Bible says? No? I wouldn't think so. Evidence, however, seems to show that my refutation is valid. So what are you going to believe? The words of two guys that can't even agree, or the evidence right in front of your eyes? I think familiarity reminds us of our own shortcomings. I think the pyramid suggests that we know ourselves and God before forgiveness and others come more easily. But I admit that was almost an ace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 miamia, I'm working on a response...sorry for the delay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 Reasonably sure that mathematics only partially demonstrates our reality. Unlike religion which demonstrates none. Your religion is no better at describing reality than the other ancient Roman religion that worshiped the planets; the one with Jupiter as the king of the gods. The theoretical often is conflated with religion/God if I am not mistaken. You are mistaken, badly mistaken. If we search God and mathematics or religion and mathematics, conflation is frequent. This is willful ignorance. You are choosing to reject knowledge for a fantasy. I am going to have to put you on ignore for a while. I can't stand seeing what Christianity has done to you. Maybe one day BAA will be able to teach you the meaning of grace but I have run out of patience. My final thought to you: "trying to teach you the meaning of grace" is not hatred. Try to not mix them up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 Reasonably sure that mathematics only partially demonstrates our reality. Unlike religion which demonstrates none. Your religion is no better at describing reality than the other ancient Roman religion that worshiped the planets; the one with Jupiter as the king of the gods. The theoretical often is conflated with religion/God if I am not mistaken. You are mistaken, badly mistaken. If we search God and mathematics or religion and mathematics, conflation is frequent. This is willful ignorance. You are choosing to reject knowledge for a fantasy. I am going to have to put you on ignore for a while. I can't stand seeing what Christianity has done to you. Maybe one day BAA will be able to teach you the meaning of grace but I have run out of patience. My final thought to you: "trying to teach you the meaning of grace" is not hatred. Try to not mix them up. You and BAA might want to revise your teacher's handbook.... And I can pull up several of the millions of hits regarding conflation of math ant religion/god......just give me the word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinzon Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 I agree with the following end3: We are much more forgiving of ourselves than others because we know ourselves. If we took the time to know others as well as we know ourselves, then we might find a little more grace for each other. but I am having a hard time seeing where you get a "therefore Christianity is the correct worldview" out of it. If your making a argument about the virtue of Jesus I am lost as to how its relevant. Why do you need Jesus to improve on something that at least to me seems obvious without Christianity as its obvious under a Christian worldview? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 I agree with the following end3: We are much more forgiving of ourselves than others because we know ourselves. If we took the time to know others as well as we know ourselves, then we might find a little more grace for each other.but I am having a hard time seeing where you get a "therefore Christianity is the correct worldview" out of it. If your making a argument about the virtue of Jesus I am lost as to how its relevant. Why do you need Jesus to improve on something that at least to me seems obvious without Christianity as its obvious under a Christian worldview? I don't have a good answer to your question. It was somewhat a revelation to me a few years back regarding John 17. I don't know that Christianity holds some lock on that insight. I suppose it was confirmation bias for me being a Christian. What's interesting are the several responses where people are less forgiving of themselves first. This makes me think we really need to know ourselves and be honest with that assessment before we can really see others in a different light. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StillLooking Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 You cannot conflate math and religon. Math is a discipline that is exact and need proofs. Religion is faith based, by definition religion doesn't do any proofing. With due respect, and I will get to other responses later, this statement seems absurd. Please elaborate Reasonably sure that mathematics only partially demonstrates our reality. The theoretical often is conflated with religion/God if I am not mistaken. If we search God and mathematics or religion and mathematics, conflation is frequent. No. Please cite where and when a mathematical theorem is conflated with religion / God. Reliable source please, which means a credible source in the field of mathematics discussing mathematics with the backing of peer review. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinzon Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 So why does this insight become so important to defend as you have? And why do you seem to assume there is a disparity because it seems entirely possible that people forgive themselves equally easy as they forgive others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 You cannot conflate math and religon. Math is a discipline that is exact and need proofs. Religion is faith based, by definition religion doesn't do any proofing. With due respect, and I will get to other responses later, this statement seems absurd. Please elaborate Reasonably sure that mathematics only partially demonstrates our reality. The theoretical often is conflated with religion/God if I am not mistaken. If we search God and mathematics or religion and mathematics, conflation is frequent. No. Please cite where and when a mathematical theorem is conflated with religion / God. Reliable source please, which means a credible source in the field of mathematics discussing mathematics with the backing of peer review. SL, it seems your are limiting the word conflate: con·flate /kənˈflāt/ verb past tense: conflated; past participle: conflated combine (two or more texts, ideas, etc.) into one. Here's one gentleman who mixes mathematics with the idea of God. http://bigthink.com/dr-kakus-universe/math-is-the-mind-of-god Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 So why does this insight become so important to defend as you have? And why do you seem to assume there is a disparity because it seems entirely possible that people forgive themselves equally easy as they forgive others? Just think it's an important growth tool that many could benefit from. My assumption is based on my experience. I gather people that have been raised to accept themselves and their limitations probably do not encounter such a gulf in the revelation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornagainathiest Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 End, I wish that MyMistake hadn't written that I was going to 'teach' you the meaning of grace. That was a genuine mistake on his part. He meant well but I'm not here to teach, because you and I are equals and it's not my place to assume the role of teacher, ok? But we can learn more by working together, wouldn't you agree? Now, I've identified a good worked example of grace between members of this forum and I reckon it'd be helpful if we looked over it to see the grace dynamic in action. Just say the word end and I'll post a link. Thanks, BAA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornagainathiest Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 Re: the Michio Kaku link, End. If you are submitting that he is talking about the Christian God of the Bible, then you need to provide a quote where he actually says he is. Otherwise he could well be using the word 'God' in an impersonal, Deistic sense, where he is conflating (that word again!) the physical universe with God. Please note that the theoretical physicist Stephen Hawking is quoted as saying... "If we do discover a theory of everything... it would be the ultimate triumph of human reason - for then we would know the mind of God." Another physicist, Paul Davies has even written a book entitled... "The Mind of God : The Scientific Basis for a Rational World." It's quite a common thing for scientists to use the word God in a Deistic sense and it would be a category error on your part to think that they are referring to the Christian God of the Bible. A Deistic God is quite different from the Christian God. . . . So, please identify exactly which God that Kaku is referring to. Thanks, BAA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StillLooking Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 SL, it seems your are limiting the word conflate: con·flate /kənˈflāt/ verb past tense: conflated; past participle: conflated combine (two or more texts, ideas, etc.) into one. Here's one gentleman who mixes mathematics with the idea of God. http://bigthink.com/dr-kakus-universe/math-is-the-mind-of-god I honestly have no clue what you mean by this "SL, it seems your are limiting the word conflate". I applied the word properly in my previous post. Where did I show I hadn't thought about conflate as merging? About Dr. Kaku's video, he was talking metaphorically. Thus I debunk your evidence that Dr. Kaku conflated math and god. metaphor [met-uh-fawr, -fer] Spell Syllables Examples Word Origin noun 1. a figure of speech in which a term or phrase is applied to somethingto which it is not literally applicable in order to suggest aresemblance, as in “A mighty fortress is our God.”. Compare mixed metaphor, simile (def 1). 2.something used, or regarded as being used, to represent somethingelse; emblem; symbol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 SL, it seems your are limiting the word conflate: con·flate /kənˈflāt/ verb past tense: conflated; past participle: conflated combine (two or more texts, ideas, etc.) into one. Here's one gentleman who mixes mathematics with the idea of God. http://bigthink.com/dr-kakus-universe/math-is-the-mind-of-god I honestly have no clue what you mean by this "SL, it seems your are limiting the word conflate ". I applied the word properly in my previous post. Where did I show I hadn't thought about conflate as merging? About Dr. Kaku's video, he was talking metaphorically. Thus I debunk your evidence that Dr. Kaku conflated math and god. metaphor [met-uh-fawr, -fer] Spell Syllables Examples Word Origin noun 1. a figure of speech in which a term or phrase is applied to somethingto which it is not literally applicable in order to suggest aresemblance, as in “A mighty fortress is our God.”. Compare mixed metaphor, simile (def 1). 2. something used, or regarded as being used, to represent somethingelse; emblem; symbol. You did read the definition where it says ideas, etc.??? combining facts and fiction is still conflating. It's not illegal. You might pick another word if you'd like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StillLooking Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 SL, it seems your are limiting the word conflate: con·flate /kənˈflāt/ verb past tense: conflated; past participle: conflated combine (two or more texts, ideas, etc.) into one. Here's one gentleman who mixes mathematics with the idea of God. http://bigthink.com/dr-kakus-universe/math-is-the-mind-of-god I honestly have no clue what you mean by this "SL, it seems your are limiting the word conflate ". I applied the word properly in my previous post. Where did I show I hadn't thought about conflate as merging? About Dr. Kaku's video, he was talking metaphorically. Thus I debunk your evidence that Dr. Kaku conflated math and god. metaphor [met-uh-fawr, -fer] Spell Syllables Examples Word Origin noun1. a figure of speech in which a term or phrase is applied to somethingto which it is not literally applicable in order to suggest aresemblance, as in “A mighty fortress is our God.”. Compare mixed metaphor, simile (def 1). 2. something used, or regarded as being used, to represent somethingelse; emblem; symbol. You did read the definition where it says ideas, etc.??? combining facts and fiction is still conflating. It's not illegal. You might pick another word if you'd like. Yes, I did read it. Yes I mentioned you were using the word conflating right. I have no idea where you think I said you couldn't use the word conflating. Are you okay? This is beneath your capability on understanding. What is going on? What I said, if you want to be taken seriously you shouldn't conflate math and religion because these two disciplines are almost polar opposite. Can you conflate fiction and non-fiction? It is either fiction or non-fiction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornagainathiest Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 SL, it seems your are limiting the word conflate: con·flate /kənˈflāt/ verb past tense: conflated; past participle: conflated combine (two or more texts, ideas, etc.) into one. Here's one gentleman who mixes mathematics with the idea of God. http://bigthink.com/dr-kakus-universe/math-is-the-mind-of-god I honestly have no clue what you mean by this "SL, it seems your are limiting the word conflate ". I applied the word properly in my previous post. Where did I show I hadn't thought about conflate as merging? About Dr. Kaku's video, he was talking metaphorically. Thus I debunk your evidence that Dr. Kaku conflated math and god. metaphor [met-uh-fawr, -fer] Spell Syllables Examples Word Origin noun1. a figure of speech in which a term or phrase is applied to somethingto which it is not literally applicable in order to suggest aresemblance, as in “A mighty fortress is our God.”. Compare mixed metaphor, simile (def 1). 2. something used, or regarded as being used, to represent somethingelse; emblem; symbol. You did read the definition where it says ideas, etc.??? combining facts and fiction is still conflating. It's not illegal. You might pick another word if you'd like. It's not illegal, but it is the wrong way to use language, End. We communicate by agreeing on the standard and accepted meaning of words and phrases. If you choose to use language in a non-standard way that's unacceptable to others, communication breaks down. Therefore, if you want to communicate effectively with others, the onus is on you to follow the rules language correctly. (Which is what SL is asking you to do.) . . . So, if you still think you're right about grace, then communicate what you mean using the accepted rules of language and we will understand you. But if what you think about grace requires you to break those rules - then we have a problem. You'd then be asking us to join you in your rule-breaking so that we can understand what you mean in your non-standard way, on your terms. Which, of course, we can't do. We all meet on common ground or not at all. Nobody gets to say that everyone else has to use their individual way of using language. . . . So, will it be common ground, End..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 Movies and shows like Harry Potter and Star Trek mix fact and fiction all the time. Bit no one is busting the authors for something "illegal" or inappropriate communications ... Rather shows that are entertaining and thought provoking. Seems lik our minds do much the same thing, but somehow it's against all rules if I do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornagainathiest Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 Movies and shows like Harry Potter and Star Trek mix fact and fiction all the time. Bit no one is busting the authors for something "illegal" or inappropriate communications ... Rather shows that are entertaining and thought provoking. Seems lik our minds do much the same thing, but somehow it's against all rules if I do it. If you do it for entertainment purposes (like Harry potter and Star Trek) ...no problem. So are you entertaining us, End..? . . . Sure, our minds mix things up. But when we want to get serious and stop thinking in showbiz terms, we divide entertainment off from science and concentrate only on the science. That's why science is called a discipline. It takes discipline to stop mixing everything up just as we want. Discipline requires focus and commitment and effort. . . . So can you stop mixing stuff up in your mind, just as you want... and meet us on the common ground of disciplined thought, End? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornagainathiest Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 You still think you're right..? Well, so long as you you think only in your terms, you'll always think and believe that you're right, End. But you'll never KNOW if you are or not. . . . If you really want to test if you're right about anything, you have to put it on the line and let others test it. And to do that you have to find common ground with them. You don't get to test things and know if you're right on your own terms. . . . Have it your way and you do so alone. Have it on common ground with us and then you get to KNOW if you're right or not. It's your call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 Movies and shows like Harry Potter and Star Trek mix fact and fiction all the time. Bit no one is busting the authors for something "illegal" or inappropriate communications ... Rather shows that are entertaining and thought provoking. Seems lik our minds do much the same thing, but somehow it's against all rules if I do it. If you do it for entertainment purposes (like Harry potter and Star Trek) ...no problem. So are you entertaining us, End..? . . . Sure, our minds mix things up. But when we want to get serious and stop thinking in showbiz terms, we divide entertainment off from science and concentrate only on the science. That's why science is called a discipline. It takes discipline to stop mixing everything up just as we want. Discipline requires focus and commitment and effort. . . . So can you stop mixing stuff up in your mind, just as you want... and meet us on the common ground of disciplined thought, End? I hear what you are saying, but religion is a discipline as well. So I gather we will have to work as well as we can around these issues. When we talk about God, unless there is some type of proof, then we have NO other option but to conflate two opposing disciplines......and I'm not even sure mathematics always falls in an applied fashion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StillLooking Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 Movies and shows like Harry Potter and Star Trek mix fact and fiction all the time. Bit no one is busting the authors for something "illegal" or inappropriate communications ... Rather shows that are entertaining and thought provoking. Seems lik our minds do much the same thing, but somehow it's against all rules if I do it. Okay I'll play. Remember you open the door. Since you started it, let us mix physics (in general sense) with christianity. Let start. What do you think christianity say about creation of the universe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 Movies and shows like Harry Potter and Star Trek mix fact and fiction all the time. Bit no one is busting the authors for something "illegal" or inappropriate communications ... Rather shows that are entertaining and thought provoking. Seems lik our minds do much the same thing, but somehow it's against all rules if I do it. Okay I'll play. Remember you open the door. Since you started it, let us mix physics (in general sense) with christianity. Let start. What do you think christianity say about creation of the universe? Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StillLooking Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 Movies and shows like Harry Potter and Star Trek mix fact and fiction all the time. Bit no one is busting the authors for something "illegal" or inappropriate communications ... Rather shows that are entertaining and thought provoking. Seems lik our minds do much the same thing, but somehow it's against all rules if I do it. If you do it for entertainment purposes (like Harry potter and Star Trek) ...no problem. So are you entertaining us, End..? . . . Sure, our minds mix things up. But when we want to get serious and stop thinking in showbiz terms, we divide entertainment off from science and concentrate only on the science. That's why science is called a discipline. It takes discipline to stop mixing everything up just as we want. Discipline requires focus and commitment and effort. . . . So can you stop mixing stuff up in your mind, just as you want... and meet us on the common ground of disciplined thought, End? I hear what you are saying, but religion is a discipline as well. So I gather we will have to work as well as we can around these issues. When we talk about God, unless there is some type of proof, then we have NO other option but to conflate two opposing disciplines......and I'm not even sure mathematics always falls in an applied fashion. I was wrong. Actually religion is not a discipline, religious study is. This means it is more obvious you cannot conflate religion, namely christianity here, with any disciplines. And no, mathematics is usually in theoretical realm. Applied math is usually physics, applied physics is usually engineering. Also no, we don't conflate two things that have meaning against each other. Is moon landing fact or fiction? You cannot say it is in between. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StillLooking Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 Movies and shows like Harry Potter and Star Trek mix fact and fiction all the time. Bit no one is busting the authors for something "illegal" or inappropriate communications ... Rather shows that are entertaining and thought provoking. Seems lik our minds do much the same thing, but somehow it's against all rules if I do it. Okay I'll play. Remember you open the door. Since you started it, let us mix physics (in general sense) with christianity. Let start. What do you think christianity say about creation of the universe? Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Then? What does Genesis 1:2 and 1:3? Would you please display verses here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 Movies and shows like Harry Potter and Star Trek mix fact and fiction all the time. Bit no one is busting the authors for something "illegal" or inappropriate communications ... Rather shows that are entertaining and thought provoking. Seems lik our minds do much the same thing, but somehow it's against all rules if I do it. Okay I'll play. Remember you open the door. Since you started it, let us mix physics (in general sense) with christianity. Let start. What do you think christianity say about creation of the universe? Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Then? What does Genesis 1:2 and 1:3? Would you please display verses here? Feel free to make your point SL...post all the verses you would like and I shall entertain them. It's Friday evening where I am and I am about to participate in an adult beverage. Btw, disciple comes from discipline if I'm not mistaken. Pretty sure the most important thing about any region is not only the study, but the practice....the faith without works thing. Ask BAA, he will tell you. He like to point that out regularly with me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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