ironhorse Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 This is a proverbial statement, and must be interpreted in light of its literary characteristics. It does not carry a divine secure promise. It is a proverb from Solomon, not a command and promise from God. You don't like Proverbs - what about Deuteronomy? Do you think this is a command from God? These are the commands, decrees and laws the Lord your God directed me to teach you to observe in the land that you are crossing the Jordan to possess,2 so that you, your children and their children after them may fear the Lord These commandments that I give you today are to be on your hearts. 7 Impress them on your children. Talk about them when you sit at home and when you walk along the road, when you lie down and when you get up. These are commandments to Israel from God as they were about to enter the promised land. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 This is a proverbial statement, and must be interpreted in light of its literary characteristics. It does not carry a divine secure promise. It is a proverb from Solomon, not a command and promise from God. You don't like Proverbs - what about Deuteronomy? Do you think this is a command from God? These are the commands, decrees and laws the Lord your God directed me to teach you to observe in the land that you are crossing the Jordan to possess,2 so that you, your children and their children after them may fear the Lord These commandments that I give you today are to be on your hearts. 7 Impress them on your children. Talk about them when you sit at home and when you walk along the road, when you lie down and when you get up. These are commandments to Israel from God as they were about to enter the promised land. That means the commandment are fiction. They are part of a fake history. Israel never "entered" the promised land. Rather, much earler the Hebrews fled to the mountains when the Sea People kicked Egypt out of the region. All the stories about Israel leaving Egypt, wandering in the wilderness and then conquering the promised land were fiction. So any promise, covenant or command God made with the people during a fictional event was also fiction. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythra Posted November 4, 2015 Author Share Posted November 4, 2015 This is a proverbial statement, and must be interpreted in light of its literary characteristics. It does not carry a divine secure promise. It is a proverb from Solomon, not a command and promise from God. You don't like Proverbs - what about Deuteronomy? Do you think this is a command from God? These are the commands, decrees and laws the Lord your God directed me to teach you to observe in the land that you are crossing the Jordan to possess,2 so that you, your children and their children after them may fear the Lord These commandments that I give you today are to be on your hearts. 7 Impress them on your children. Talk about them when you sit at home and when you walk along the road, when you lie down and when you get up. These are commandments to Israel from God as they were about to enter the promised land. Oh, okay, I get it. This does not apply to us, only to the Israelites during the bronze age. That makes sense. And the same can be said for the ten commandments. And everything else in the writings of the prophets from that archaic time when they first learned to write. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythra Posted November 4, 2015 Author Share Posted November 4, 2015 It doesn't take a commandment from God to understand human nature. And nature in general. Whatever enters the developing mind of a human being, or a bird, or a dog or a squirrel, generally stays put there. And the fact that it's stressed in the bible only goes to show that the human beings who wrote the bible understood how it works. And they understood that the best way to perpetuate their legends was to teach the very young. It's actually irrelevant whether we talk about things in the context of whether it was a commandment of God or not. I agree with mymistake, of course. It's a fictional account that includes fictional things that "god" said to an ignorant people. We only need to discuss things like "whether it's supported by scripture" when involved in a discussion with a person who thinks the bible has some magical importance. For the rest of us, we might as well be discussing whether or not it's supported within the writings of Homer's Iliad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythra Posted November 4, 2015 Author Share Posted November 4, 2015 These are commandments to Israel from God as they were about to enter the promised land. Conversation between a religionist and a rationalist: Religionist: well, you have to understand the bible within the context of when it was written, who it was written for, and what was the main objective in writing it. Many things were written back then that were only for that place and time. Written to the children of Israel. They are no longer things we need to follow. For we are not under the law. We are under grace. Rationalist: Oh, I see. So you mean things like eating bacon and shrimp, trimming sideburns, working on Saturday, homosexuality, tattoos, piercings, and a woman showing her hair in church? Those are all things we no longer need to be concerned about? Religionist: EXACTLY! oh wait. Can you say that again, more slowly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DivineBlasphemer Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 These are commandments to Israel from God as they were about to enter the promised land. Conversation between a religionist and a rationalist: Religionist: well, you have to understand the bible within the context of when it was written, who it was written for, and what was the main objective in writing it. Many things were written back then that were only for that place and time. Written to the children of Israel. They are no longer things we need to follow. For we are not under the law. We are under grace. Rationalist: Oh, I see. So you mean things like eating bacon and shrimp, trimming sideburns, working on Saturday, homosexuality, tattoos, piercings, and a woman showing her hair in church? Those are all things we no longer need to be concerned about? Religionist: EXACTLY! oh wait. Can you say that again, more slowly? Isnt that inconvenient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DivineBlasphemer Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 Also, jesus himself said in Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironhorse Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 Also, jesus himself said in Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. And, as a Christian, I believe it was. “In Jesus, God has put up a "Gone Fishing" sign on the religion shop. He has done the whole job in Jesus once and for all and simply invited us to believe it - to trust the bizarre, unprovable proposition that in him, every last person on earth is already home free without a single religious exertion: no fasting till your knees fold, no prayers you have to get right or else, no standing on your head with your right thumb in your left ear and reciting the correct creed - no nothing. . . . The entire show has been set to rights in the Mystery of Christ - even though nobody can see a single improvement. Yes, it's crazy. And yes, it's wild, and outrageous, and vulgar. And any God who would do such a thing is a God who has no taste. And worst of all, it doesn't sell worth beans. But it is good news - the only permanently good news there is - and therefore I find it absolutely captivating." ~ Brennan Manning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 Also, jesus himself said in Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. And, as a Christian, I believe it was. “In Jesus, God has put up a "Gone Fishing" sign on the religion shop. He has done the whole job in Jesus once and for all and simply invited us to believe it - to trust the bizarre, unprovable proposition that in him, every last person on earth is already home free without a single religious exertion: no fasting till your knees fold, no prayers you have to get right or else, no standing on your head with your right thumb in your left ear and reciting the correct creed - no nothing. . . . The entire show has been set to rights in the Mystery of Christ - even though nobody can see a single improvement. Yes, it's crazy. And yes, it's wild, and outrageous, and vulgar. And any God who would do such a thing is a God who has no taste. And worst of all, it doesn't sell worth beans. But it is good news - the only permanently good news there is - and therefore I find it absolutely captivating." ~ Brennan Manning So nobody is going to hell and everyone is going to heaven even if they don't believe? That is a lot more ethical than the God most Christians imagine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironhorse Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 Also, jesus himself said in Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. And, as a Christian, I believe it was. “In Jesus, God has put up a "Gone Fishing" sign on the religion shop. He has done the whole job in Jesus once and for all and simply invited us to believe it - to trust the bizarre, unprovable proposition that in him, every last person on earth is already home free without a single religious exertion: no fasting till your knees fold, no prayers you have to get right or else, no standing on your head with your right thumb in your left ear and reciting the correct creed - no nothing. . . . The entire show has been set to rights in the Mystery of Christ - even though nobody can see a single improvement. Yes, it's crazy. And yes, it's wild, and outrageous, and vulgar. And any God who would do such a thing is a God who has no taste. And worst of all, it doesn't sell worth beans. But it is good news - the only permanently good news there is - and therefore I find it absolutely captivating." ~ Brennan Manning So nobody is going to hell and everyone is going to heaven even if they don't believe? That is a lot more ethical than the God most Christians ima It is a invitation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 It is a invitation. No, that is dishonest double talk. You mean it is an invitation to join a religion, which means Christianity is the opposite of what you quoted in post 33. Jesus invites us to a religion. We have to do the work of joining the religion and believing the indoctrination. All the rewards come with strings attached and must be earned through religious rituals. If we were really forgiven without religion then we wouldn't need to be Christian or believe in God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duderonomy Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 It is a invitation. No, that is dishonest double talk. You mean it is an invitation to join a religion, which means Christianity is the opposite of what you quoted in post 33. Jesus invites us to a religion. We have to do the work of joining the religion and believing the indoctrination. All the rewards come with strings attached and must be earned through religious rituals. If we were really forgiven without religion then we wouldn't need to be Christian or believe in God. Ironhorse, this is a real problem! What must we do to be saved? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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