Beer

[ironhorse]

“If you were to drink beer in the afterlife, it would have no effect on you. Your days of getting "buzzed" will be over.”

~ Mystique

 

 

I disagree. Why would the pleasant sensation of moderate beer drinking be absent in heaven? I have never found that verse in the scriptures that would support that idea.

As I once posted in my thread on “Heaven”, I believe there is scriptural support for believing that much of the good things God created for us to enjoy on earth will also be for us in the new earth.

Martin Luther spoke and wrote about beer several times; It was his favorite pastimes.

He enjoyed spending sessions with his students either at the local pub or in his home, where they would drink beer and discuss theology late into the night. One reason the traditional starting time for protestant worship services on Sunday morning is eleven is because Luther often preferred to sleep a little later Sundays because these student sessions often lasted late into the night. His students later wrote up some of the discussions which became the volume “Table Talk“.

“See how much he [God] has been able to accomplish through me, though I did no more than pray and preach.  The Word did it all.  Had I wished I might have started a conflagration at Worms.  But while I sat still and drank beer with Philip and Amsdorf, God dealt the papacy a mighty blow.”

Luther wrote about beer in several of his letters, at one point writing to tell his wife how much he missed the beer they brewed at home. “I keep thinking what good wine and beer I have at home.”

Luther was fine with the use of beer in moderation, but he also warned about drunkenness and being under the influence of anything but the Holy Spirit as evil. Luther spoke against excess (Soberness and Moderation against Gluttony and Drunkenness, 1 Pet. 4:7-11, May 18, 1539 Luther’s Works  51:291).

“We ought to give thanks to God for providing us with food and drink and then besides, liberating us from the papacy, and feeding us with food and drink. If you are tired and downhearted, take a drink; but this does not mean being a pig and doing nothing but gorging and swilling.”

~ (Soberness and Moderation against Gluttony and Drunkenness, I Pet. 4:7-11, May 18, 1539 Luther’s Works  51:291).

[mymistake]

Instead of talking about theology could we talk about beer?  It would be nice to agree with you for a change.  

[ironhorse]

Instead of talking about theology could we talk about beer?  It would be nice to agree with you for a change.  

 

 

Yes, since I have already expressed my theological disagreement with Mystique on beer and its

useful purpose in this world and beyond, lets talk. I agree it would be nice for a change.

[Thought2Much]

I tend to like stouts. Here's one I like a lot: Tröegs Java Head

[ironhorse]

I tend to like stouts. Here's one I like a lot: Tröegs Java Head

 

I like stouts, especially on chilly rainy days like today. I will try of the Troegs Java Head asap.

Being made from oatmeal sounds interesting. 

 

Tonight, I've been enjoying a few Guinness Extra Stout.

[mymistake]

I like Guinness.  I like just about every heavy malt beer.  I love Sam Adams Ocktoberfest.

[Jeff]

Learning to like IPAs.

 

I always order the blackest beer they have (that isn't Guiness) when we eat out.

 

At home I drink PBR usually

[FlowerDemon]

I really like Alphedelic IPA, and Lagunitas IPA. I used to hate IPAs but I've developed an acquired taste for them. 

[Geezer]

I thought souls in heaven had spiritual bodies? If that is true then there would be no need for food or water, much less alcoholic beverages. Spiritual bodies would appear to be necessary since these souls will apparently live forever. They would seemingly also come in handy since all they apparently are going to be doing is standing around the Throne of God singing praises forever, Spiritual bodies would come in handy too since bathroom breaks apparently won't be allowed.

[Jeff]

IH. I must agree. The fact that you're contemplating alcohol in a spiritual afterlife is just another weirdness you embrace. This is not any different than Mystique and his orbs.

I like you I guess because you aren't a jerk even though you get a beating here. But since I like you, I guess I just hope you really are happy in your religion. At least you like beer! That is def not a baptist tradition from my old experiences.

Ugh this is weird. We should all just go to a bar and get a little sloshy.

[bornagainathiest]

Matthew 26 : 26 - 29.

 

26 While they were eating, Jesus took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and gave it to his disciples, saying, “Take and eat; this is my body.”

27 Then he took a cup, and when he had given thanks, he gave it to them, saying, “Drink from it, all of you.

28 This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.

29 I tell you, I will not drink from this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father’s kingdom.”.

.

.

Looks like Jesus will be drinking wine in heaven.

.

.

.

But beer..?

 

[Justus]

I believe there is scriptural support for believing that much of the good things God created for us to enjoy on earth will also be for us in the new earth.

 

How about pot, marijuana, Mary Jane, ganja, sticky stick or whatever term used to describe the Cannabis plant.   Is that okay in moderation?  

 

Do you think that they will be cannabis there too? [Not meant to be a gotcha ? yet considering that it will be done on earth as it is in heaven]

[RogueScholar]

Since it is the ethanol in beer that produces the characteristic effects we call intoxication and since this is a physical process in that there is good evidence that points to ethanol interacting with NMDA and GABA receptors along with GIRK channels, then are we suggesting heaven/new earth is a concept with ties to the physical universe? If so, the physical, testable and falsifiable evidence that this place exists should be pretty easy to find. This also suggests that these particular processes must transcend death. I've done a cursory review of the literature and I've yet to find any empirical evidence to suggest GABA receptor, NMDA receptor and GIRK channel function along with all their complex down stream effects in neurons within the human brain transcend death.

[bornagainathiest]

Ah but Rogue...

 

...you're comparing apples and oranges!

 

The biology of our fallen, spiritually-dead and sin-polluted human bodies simply cannot be compared to the purified and spiritually-transformed resurrection bodies that all true Christian believers will have in heaven.  That's why your limited, worldly, physical knowledge simply cannot explain how Jesus was able to walk thru walls, disappear and appear at will and have gaping wounds in his hands, feet and side without experiencing pain, without going into shock, without developing gangrene and without exsanguinating. 

 

 

[Mythra]

exsanguinating? 

 

I have a decent vocabulary, but that's a first for that word.

 

No wonder he has no blood left.  People keep drinking it every sunday.

 

 

It would make a good title for a book though:  The Exsanguinated Savior. 

 

Thanks, spock.  

 

Hey, about your avatar - I never met Spock, but I did meet Leonard Nimoy about five years ago.  He was a jerk. (no offense).

[amateur]

 

It would make a good title for a book though:  The Exsanguinated Savior. 

 

That would be an awesome book and I would read it.  While drinking a dark ale.

[Justus]

Since it is the ethanol in beer that produces the characteristic effects we call intoxication and since this is a physical process in that there is good evidence that points to ethanol interacting with NMDA and GABA receptors along with GIRK channels, then are we suggesting heaven/new earth is a concept with ties to the physical universe? If so, the physical, testable and falsifiable evidence that this place exists should be pretty easy to find. This also suggests that these particular processes must transcend death. I've done a cursory review of the literature and I've yet to find any empirical evidence to suggest GABA receptor, NMDA receptor and GIRK channel function along with all their complex down stream effects in neurons within the human brain transcend death.

 

That is a very astute observation, yet one doesn't need to retain the hard drive, processor and memory components from their computer when all the data is stored in the cloud.

[RogueScholar]

For intoxication to occur, said receptors need to be acted upon by the ethanol molecule. My original statement still holds.

[mymistake]

For intoxication to occur, said receptors need to be acted upon by the ethanol molecule. My original statement still holds.

 

You are being literal.  You forget that in heaven we will have magic bodies that operate through magical mechanisms.  And the ambrosia we shall sip there will have magical properties.

[duderonomy]

 

Since it is the ethanol in beer that produces the characteristic effects we call intoxication and since this is a physical process in that there is good evidence that points to ethanol interacting with NMDA and GABA receptors along with GIRK channels, then are we suggesting heaven/new earth is a concept with ties to the physical universe? If so, the physical, testable and falsifiable evidence that this place exists should be pretty easy to find. This also suggests that these particular processes must transcend death. I've done a cursory review of the literature and I've yet to find any empirical evidence to suggest GABA receptor, NMDA receptor and GIRK channel function along with all their complex down stream effects in neurons within the human brain transcend death.

 

That is a very astute observation, yet one doesn't need to retain the hard drive, processor and memory components from their computer when all the data is stored in the cloud.

 

 

So Heaven is drunk, and digital! Glory!

[♦ ficino ♦]

Matthew 26 : 26 - 29.

 

26 While they were eating, Jesus took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and gave it to his disciples, saying, “Take and eat; this is my body.”

27 Then he took a cup, and when he had given thanks, he gave it to them, saying, “Drink from it, all of you.

28 This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.

29 I tell you, I will not drink from this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father’s kingdom.”.

.

.

Looks like Jesus will be drinking wine in heaven.

.

.

.

But beer..?

 

This is a bit of a hijack, but: only when I saw a discussion of this passage on another board did I think of what a weird speech act Jesus is laying on. I mean, the dude is eating and drinking himself at a party. And how can the bread and wine become His flesh and blood before the crucifixion? And is he merely describing them, or do his words, "this is my body" cause the bread to change its substance right then and there?

 

Ca-razy! I guess that's why transubstantiation is a mystery (code word for "bullshit").

[bornagainathiest]

Mythra wrote...

 

exsanguinating? 

 

I have a decent vocabulary, but that's a first for that word.

 

No wonder he has no blood left.  People keep drinking it every sunday.

 

 

It would make a good book title though:  The Exsanguinated Savior

 

 

Thanks spock.

 

Hey, about your avatar - I never met Spock, but I did meet Leonard Nimoy about five years ago.   He was a jerk. (no offense)

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

None taken, Mythra. 

 

If you take a second look at my avatar and you'll see that I'm... not ...Spock.  

 

I'm Spock's evil mirror. 

 

http://www.letswatchstartrek.com/2013/01/28/04-tos-mirror-mirror/

 

[ironhorse]

I thought souls in heaven had spiritual bodies? If that is true then there would be no need for food or water, much less alcoholic beverages. Spiritual bodies would appear to be necessary since these souls will apparently live forever. They would seemingly also come in handy since all they apparently are going to be doing is standing around the Throne of God singing praises forever, Spiritual bodies would come in handy too since bathroom breaks apparently won't be allowed.

 

 

It is very unfortunate that this view of heaven where we float around as disembodied spirits strumming on harps and lounging on clouds is a common view of some Christians and non-Christians alike. This is not exactly an exciting proposition.

 

Two things I remember from my teen years drove me to find out exactly what the Bible said about a future life. One was when a visiting evangelist was holding a revival and one night he preached on heaven. He made a big point to say that he believed there would be Pepsi-Cola in heaven. Why not?, he said, the new Earth will be filled with many of the good things we enjoy now.Several chuckles came from the congregation but he got my attention. Here was something a little different from the strumming on harps for eternity, here was a soda break for the thirsty! 

 

The other was when I first saw The Twilight episode "A Nice Place to Visit" as a teenager.

 

 

Here's a review I found on IMDB:

 

After trying to knock off the South Side Loan Company small time hood Rocky Valintine, runs into a streak of bad luck as well as a police bullet in the head as he tries to makes his escape. Waking up in a state of shock Rocky sees that he's not only alive but in the presences of this fat guy Mr.Pip.

 

It takes a while for Rocky to realize this but he's in fact dead and by some big mistake, by the Big Guy upstairs, he's in heaven with Mr. Pip as his Guardian Angel! All the dreams that Rocky ever dreamed about were happening to him and he loved it. Beautiful dames fancy clothes all the money he can spend or gamble away and an apartment that would rival the deluxe penthouse on top of the Trump Towers, occupied by Mr.Donald Trump himself, are at his disposable.

 

What Rocky loved best about this strange arrangement is that in the local casino whatever games he plays roulette craps cards as well as the slot machines he never loses at! The women are just crazy about Rocky which at first pleases him to no end but later turns him off in that they easier for him to make it with than with a $10,00 a trick street hooker with him having $100.00 bill glued to his nose!

 

What Rocky likes is excitement but with everything preordained for him to work out in his favor the excitement is gone and so is the fun that goes along with it!

 

Almost on his knees and pleading with Mr. Pip to give him, in the afterlife, what he really deserves Rocky to his shock and horror finds out that's exactly what he's gotten.

 

____________

 

Not exactly theologically correct but the story does make the point about how boring life in eternity would be if everything came so easy and without any effort.

 

If interested, Randy Alcorn's book "Heaven" presents a scriptural view of heaven far different from the "harps and the clouds' view.

[mymistake]

 

 

 

Not exactly theologically correct . . . 

 

 

Heaven is an imaginary place.  Nobody ever goes there.  It doesn't exist.  So arguing about the details of Heaven is like arguing about where the turbolifts are located on the starship Enterprise.  One guy imagines Heaven differently than the next guy.  If one of those guys is a Pope or Martin Luther or the greatest theologian who ever lived it makes no difference.  Their imagination of heaven is just as accurate as that of a four year old.

 

Whenever you are ready to grow up reality will be there for you.  If you choose to never grow up then reality will continue on without you.  Reality doesn't care.

[bornagainathiest]

Maybe Ironhorse would like to grace us with something from his 'years' of skeptically appraising his Baptist beliefs..?

 

Doesn't have to be here, IH.

 

You know where the relevant thread is and we're still waiting on you.