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Goodbye Jesus

The Voice Of God


Mythra

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When I walked away from God escaped the religious mindset, I moved into uncharted territory.  It was scary as hell.  Because it felt like I was losing my identity.  I was so used to hearing the voice of God, that still small voice. I was being left to fend for myself without any support.  I was losing my crutch, my helper.   But then I found out the voice in my head didn't stop.  I kept on getting help, advice, guidance, correction.

 

Huh.

 

Maybe it wasn't the voice of God at all.  Just my brain talking to my brain.  

 

The voice of God was me. 

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When I walked away from God escaped the religious mindset, I moved into uncharted territory.  It was scary as hell.  Because it felt like I was losing my identity.  I was so used to hearing the voice of God, that still small voice. I was being left to fend for myself without any support.  I was losing my crutch, my helper.   But then I found out the voice in my head didn't stop.  I kept on getting help, advice, guidance, correction.

 

Huh.

 

Maybe it wasn't the voice of God at all.  Just my brain talking to my brain.  

 

The voice of God was me. 

 

Mythra, Good points! I also know now, that I can follow all my gut instincts and they are very reliable for me. It was my gut instincts that started all the questioning I had about christianity.

 

These were also the same instincts that I mistakenly thought was gods 'voice' all through the years. I always knew when something wasn't right and I also knew when I listened to them carefully, they could lead me back on a path down on the right road again. Sometimes, of course, being human and all, (and young and stupid) I made mistakes along the way but if I listened closely to my gut, the 'voices behind my bellybutton' could help get me back on the right track. I remember so clearly contributing getting back on the right road to god leading me there... but that was all a big lie. I was lead to believe a huge lie about christianity and it nearly destroyed my whole life. I will not ever allow this again from any institution.

 

This is what I choose today to call, ''My higher voice''. Lol  It was never god. It was always me. 

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Intuition is a wonderful thing.  There are parts of your brain that recognize that something is wrong or dangerous or not right, and can warn the conscious part of your brain to look out or get away.  It's not god.

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Even though I am not an atheist I still think that everything I have learned or had revelations/epiphanies about, were not "the voice of god." It was a conclusion that I came to on my own, by means of meditation, self reflection, mantras, etc. 

 

Whether someone believes in deity(s) or not doesnt matter, we are all in control of ourselves and we all have moments of intense realization/reflection/revelation/epiphany/change at times. It's a part of life. It's called learning. Every day stores a lesson for us and we are the ones who learn the lesson and apply it to our lives, if we so choose. It's not "the voice of god."

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I read a book recently called - "The Minds of the Bible, speculations on the cultural evolution of human consciousness".  It talks about the way the human mind worked and was understood by those who lived prior to 500 b.c.e.  It is based on a theory proposed by Jaynes, back around 1980, about something called the "bicameral" mind. 

 

This book hypothesizes that the "voice of god" that was heard by the old testament prophets was an audible voice.  Not a real voice, it was hallucinated.  Much the way hallucinations still occur today.  But it was understood to be a real voice, coming directly from God.

 

But back then, the human mind operated differently than it does with us.  It was termed a "bicameral" mind because the left brain / right brain were not as integrated as they are today. This explains why we see behavior in the Old Testament that seems like God gives an order and the Israelites, like a bunch of automatons, obey.   

 

The brain underwent a "Cultural evolution" (not a biological evolution, which would have taken much more time), but a cultural evolution as the result of the babylonian captivity.  And the cognitive dissonance that occurred when Yahweh failed to protect the Israelites from the destruction of the temple and the capture and exile of the israelite hierarchy.

 

And that's why, after the babylonian captivity ended,  we see so much lamenting about "why are you silent, God? why do you hide your face?  what must we do as a people, to get you to return to us? "  

 

The way the two hemispheres of the mind work today is termed "introspection". Self-analysis. And most people understand it to be a kind of dialogue, verbal in nature, in which various functions and problem-solving occur. Nothing external is involved.

 

When reading it, at times I wondered if a modern-day fundamental christian (and my former self included) is kind of tricked into slipping back partially into a bicameral way of thinking.

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I found that when I was a Christian the Holy Spirit opened doors for me in life, showing me the right path.

 

Now that I am agnostic atheist doors continue to be opened for me. I still have people walking into my life giving indispensable advice etc. It seems it was never a holy spirit, but rather a phenomenon that everyone experiences.

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  Here is a paragraph from the book "The Minds of the Bible" written by Rabbi James Cohn.

 

Human emotions are feelings experienced within a conceptual framework of time, that is, within introspection.  At some point in the middle of the first millennium b.c., shame becomes guilt. Fear becomes anxiety. Anger becomes hatred. And, most importantly, perhaps, pain becomes suffering. In each case, the former feeling is possible with animals, and also in pre-introspective bicameral people; but the latter emotion is the product of introspection, because it requires a feeling that is introspected within a narratized time-space. 

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This is what I choose today to call, ''My higher voice''. Lol  It was never god. It was always me. 

 

So, could that be termed a  "mental falsetto" ?  GONZ9729CustomImage1539775.gif

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Mythra gave a wonderful description of the bicameral mind, above.  After I read the Jaynes' book on the bicameral mind, the whole concept of where gods had come from made perfect sense to me, and at that point I went from any agnostic leanings directly to atheism. 

 

As far as our modern minds being "tricked back into bicameral thinking," the Jaynes' book said that even today, when someone is under a great degree of stress they will sometimes "hear voices."  For instance, right after my mother died when I was 18, for at least six months or so I would sometimes "hear" her calling my name from over my shoulder.  She never said anything else, just my name in her voice.  It was a stressful time so it made sense that I heard it, and hearing it also stressed me out at first because I'd hear it then look behind me because it was so clear, then nobody would be, especially not my dead mom!  After about six months or so, I started enjoying hearing it, and that's when it stopped, as my grief and stress had dropped a lot by that point. 

 

I would think that being in a fundy church during a very emotional service would also "trick" the mind into regressing into its bicameral state, and hearing a voice would not be an impossibility.  Or if you were praying and really getting into it in a very emotional way, I can imagine a person could "hear" a voice that they would think would be a god.

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Guest realchild

When I walked away from God escaped the religious mindset, I moved into uncharted territory.  It was scary as hell.  Because it felt like I was losing my identity.  I was so used to hearing the voice of God, that still small voice. I was being left to fend for myself without any support.  I was losing my crutch, my helper.   But then I found out the voice in my head didn't stop.  I kept on getting help, advice, guidance, correction.

 

Huh.

 

Maybe it wasn't the voice of God at all.  Just my brain talking to my brain.  

 

The voice of God was me. 

You can be the voice in my head if you want, I don't mind.

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I've been trying to get in there, but you keep covering your ears and shouting LA LA LA LA  I CAN'T HEAR YOU!!!

 

cistinebiggrinA.gif

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Guest realchild

I've been trying to get in there, but you keep covering your ears and shouting LA LA LA LA  I CAN'T HEAR YOU!!!

 

cistinebiggrinA.gif

Well even if I did that I can still feel you.

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Let me guess.  You're 9 years old? 

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  • 2 weeks later...

This book hypothesizes that the "voice of god" that was heard by the old testament prophets was an audible voice.  Not a real voice, it was hallucinated.  Much the way hallucinations still occur today.  But it was understood to be a real voice, coming directly from God.

To begin with the hypothesize is false. 

 

Are sure you heard the author say that it was an audible voice?

 

In Torah [The Third Book of Moses v. 12:6]  it is clearly written:

And he said, Hear now my words: If there be a prophet among you, I the LORD

will make myself known unto him in a vision, and will speak unto him in a dream.

 

And in v.12:7-8 it is written:

[7] My servant Moses is not so, who is faithful in all mine house.

[8] With him will I speak mouth to mouth, even apparently, and not in dark speeches;

and the similitude of the LORD shall he behold:

 

I guess he got confused by the scripture in  the Fifth Book of Moses v 34:10:

And there arose not a prophet since in Israel like unto Moses, whom the LORD knew face to face,

Yet that passage was written after 120 years of Moses birth.

 

The author you cited would probably hypothesize that it is written in the scriptures that Moses cast down a rod at Pharaoh's feet that

became a serpent, wasn't really a serpent, but anyone who believes that Moses cast down the rod at Pharaoh's

feet are actually the ones who experiencing a seemingly real perception of something not actually present,

typically as a result of a mental disorder or of taking drugs.[1]

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This book hypothesizes that the "voice of god" that was heard by the old testament prophets was an audible voice.  Not a real voice, it was hallucinated.  Much the way hallucinations still occur today.  But it was understood to be a real voice, coming directly from God.

 

 

It was perceived to be an audible voice. Perhaps I should have been more specific. It was heard in the auditory receptors in the brain.  It would not be heard by anyone else.  

 

Nothing else you talked about has anything whatsoever to do with this book. 

 

He's a rabbi.  With a  Masters Degree and Ordination at Hebrew Union College - Jewish Institute of Religion.  I'm guessing he has at least a cursory familiarity with the Old Testament.

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Justus: If you're really interested in the hypothesis of bicameralism other than representing it as something it's not and then calling it false,  read this.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicameralism_(psychology)

 

from the wiki article:

 

Jaynes inferred that these "voices" came from the right brain counterparts of the left brain language centres—specifically, the counterparts to Wernicke's area and Broca's area. These regions are somewhat dormant in the right brains of most modern humans, but Jaynes noted that some studies show that auditory hallucinations correspond to increased activity in these areas of the brain.[3]

 

 

Jaynes' concepts were the original ones,  which Cohn expanded upon and modified somewhat in his book. 

 

And, I'm not claiming it's truth.  I'm saying it's an interesting hypothesis and not easily dismissed.

 

But it's not without it's detractors, like most hypotheses. 

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