Llwellyn Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 The article describes the shocking story of a woman who was forced to be prostituted, as a child to "at least 30 customers a day, seven days a week." Of course, these customers were almost all male. Some of them were likely married, while others of them were unmarried -- some with partners, and others not. When I look at this situtation, I don't immediately conclude that these men are abstractly evil, that they are spontaneously choosing to be wicked. That's how Christians understand prostitution. Instead, I would imagine that this behavior is responding to a challenge, a stimulated cruelty rather than a spontaneous impulse. Do you think it would have been possible for those thirty men to each day be ushered into other rooms for them to have adult consensual sex, paired off, with each other? That is fifteen different couples experiencing something something that they are seeking. What is making these men pester women who are not consenting, and too young to consent? Why don't these men leave these particular women alone when they see that there are so many other humans who are ready and willing to have sex? I don't think that what they are seeking is rape, as in non-consent, alone, otherwise they would be raping each other. They want sex, but this problem is being solved in a destructive rather than constructive way. Perhaps if there was a greater acceptance of novel sexual behavior, that community would be better able to manage that tremendous evil. Perhaps also rigid rules in Mexico concerning monogamy, marriage, birth, paternity, abortion, and birth control are also creating an environment where thirty men each day are raping a child. What do you think? http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/10/americas/freedom-project-mexico-trafficking-survivor/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orbit Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 What do I think? I think raping a child is unspeakable. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeThinkerNZ Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 The effects of the Catholic Church on society has caused a lot of problems in Mexico and other Latin American countries. Archaic views on women, and sexuality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 I've said this before but pimping is a crime against humanity. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StillLooking Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 I think those men who rape are sick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llwellyn Posted November 13, 2015 Author Share Posted November 13, 2015 How do we reduce this kind of thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwc Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 I think that prostitution should be legalized and regulated (see Nevada and other places). With regulation would come checks to make sure that everyone there is of legal age and that they consent. Involving outside groups in conducting these (random) checks would help in keeping institutionalized corruption down. I don't know if it would help this sort of illegal prostitution however. It sort of seems like the difference between pot and meth (and the like). You legalize pot and you still have illegal meth out in the wild causing problems. The legalization of pot doesn't solve the whole problem and, with drugs, it might be alright to legalize the whole shebang but clearly that won't work for underage prostitution so the comparison falls apart which is why I really don't think legalization is an answer for this although it may take some pressure off for guys who aren't looking for a particular type but simply a female body to have sex with (to use the drug analogy: any high will do be it pot or meth not just meth in particular). mwc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llwellyn Posted November 13, 2015 Author Share Posted November 13, 2015 it may take some pressure off for guys who aren't looking for a particular type but simply a female body to have sex with It seems to me that the prostitutes are often children because children are more vulnerable to exploitation of all kinds. It's the same reason that there is child labor without pay. There are some people (men and women) whose specific predilection is non-consent (rapists). And others whose predilection is childhood (pedophiles). But I would conjecture that the majority of people who are paying to be with these children are not this way -- they are seeking to have a sexual experience, and their opportunity is with these pimped children. (Rather than with each other, as I have provocatively suggested.) Is homophobia part of an environment that results in child rape? Are there lines of causation that go back and forth between these phenomena? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedah Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 "It's the powerful that allow trafficking to continue" Why am I not surprised. They don't care about anyone who is not them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disillusioned Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 it may take some pressure off for guys who aren't looking for a particular type but simply a female body to have sex with It seems to me that the prostitutes are often children because children are more vulnerable to exploitation of all kinds. It's the same reason that there is child labor without pay. There are some people (men and women) whose specific predilection is non-consent (rapists). And others whose predilection is childhood (pedophiles). But I would conjecture that the majority of people who are paying to be with these children are not this way -- they are seeking to have a sexual experience, and their opportunity is with these pimped children. (Rather than with each other, as I have provocatively suggested.) Is homophobia part of an environment that results in child rape? Are there lines of causation that go back and forth between these phenomena? I agree with the bolded. For the rest, I can only answer for myself. I would not, under any circumstances, engage in sexual activity with a child. Nor would I engage in sexual activity with a pimped adult. Consent is essential to my enjoyment of sexual activity. Moreover, I am eminently heterosexual. I would rather forgo sex entirely than engage in sexual activity with another man. Sexual activity with a consenting male adult is not abhorrent to me in the way that rape or child molestation is, but it does go against my nature. I think that suggesting that any sexual activity will do overlooks the fact that people have preferences, and that these preferences are important. If it were just a sexual experience that these people were craving, then surely they could just satiate themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llwellyn Posted November 14, 2015 Author Share Posted November 14, 2015 people have preferences, and that these preferences are important. Important preference by what origin, and at what cost? Humans are plastic -- I wouldn't say "perfectible" because that would require some reference point. But man's nature is to have no nature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disillusioned Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 people have preferences, and that these preferences are important. Important preference by what origin, and at what cost? Humans are plastic -- I wouldn't say "perfectible" because that would require some reference point. But man's nature is to have no nature. The origin and cost are beside the point. No matter the origin and cost, sexual orientations and preferences remain. My sexual preferences are important to me. If what I'm seeking is sexual gratification, then I'm looking to have a pleasurable experience. It boots nothing to suggest that those who are looking for pleasure should "be plastic", and seek it where they are not sure to find it, or where they may even be sure not to find it as the case may be. The sexual orientation of individuals play a large role in the gratification that they will receive from sexual activity. This isn't homophobia. It's no more related to homophobia than my personal distaste for chickpeas is related a fear of legumes. I just don't like chickpeas. If I were hungry enough, yes, I would eat them. But the analogy breaks down, because sustenance is essential to my survival. Sexual pleasure is not. Moreover, we can always just gratify ourselves. In the case you bring up, sure, some of the individuals may have been closeted homosexuals or bisexuals. In that case, by all means they would have been better served to just engage in consensual sex with one another. But if not, then I doubt that consensual sex with on another would have been on the table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest immoralchristian Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 Bullshit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest immoralchristian Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 people have preferences, and that these preferences are important. Important preference by what origin, and at what cost? Humans are plastic -- I wouldn't say "perfectible" because that would require some reference point. But man's nature is to have no nature. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disillusioned Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 Bullshit. Would you care to elaborate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironhorse Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 The effects of the Catholic Church on society has caused a lot of problems in Mexico and other Latin American countries. Archaic views on women, and sexuality. I agree with you. I would add Europe and the rest of the world. The gross error of demanding celibacy among the clergy has caused much pain and suffering to victims. Their strict views on divorce has kept untold numbers of women in abusive and failed marriages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 The effects of the Catholic Church on society has caused a lot of problems in Mexico and other Latin American countries. Archaic views on women, and sexuality. I agree with you. I would add Europe and the rest of the world. The gross error of demanding celibacy among the clergy has caused much pain and suffering to victims. Their strict views on divorce has kept untold numbers of women in abusive and failed marriages. And yet the Holy Spirit, God the Father and Jesus all watched the Catholic Church causing all this harm for over a thousand years and they did nothing. Absolutely nothing. Then when they had finally had enough the only thing they did was inspire Christians to break away and form thousands of new sects. Meanwhile the Catholic Church continues to do harm while God does nothing else. You have some explaining to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daffodil Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 people have preferences, and that these preferences are important. Important preference by what origin, and at what cost? Humans are plastic -- I wouldn't say "perfectible" because that would require some reference point. But man's nature is to have no nature. No, SOME humans are plastic. There are certainly humans who are very fluid in their sexuality, but the vast majority are not. If they were, then same sex and so-called "deviant" sex would be far more rampant. I have watched lesbian porn and just can't get into it. I have never in my life had even the slightest inclination toward sex with a minor. The same with bondage sex. If I am "plastic", wouldn't I at least be curious? There have been many attempts to "fix" pedophiles, just as there have been attempts to "cure" homosexuals. It just doesn't work because we are what we are. I don't buy for one second the idea that homophobes would work out their frustrations on kids. There are plenty of people that would be happy to secretly meet their needs and have done so. Ted Haggard, anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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