Cognitive Dissonance?

[bunzooh]

Greetings. I have been away for several weeks, while my personal life has been adjusting...my personal life and my inner life, in fact. One of the reasons I stepped away here is the anger I read, especially in the rants and replies forum. There's so much bitterness and I didn't like the mockery, so I just stopped. I needed to think on my own, too. Like...why go from having one group of people tell me what to think, just to pick up opinions at a website dedicated to the opposite?

 

anyway, I haven't been thinking about this much, but lately have realized where I am in my beliefs:

 

1) the bible is deeply flawed and unreliable. And the god it depicts is pretty much a dick whom I refuse to follow even if he does exist.

2) the resurrection of Jesus. I do still believe in this. I have my reasons, and part of that is simply clinging to Jesus, whom I have loved too long to simply walk away.

3) related to belief in the resurrection: there are truly intelligent, highly educated individuals who DO believe in Jesus, who DO see the bible as valuable. Scientific minds that hold onto faith. I want to read more from them. Two in particular: NT Wright and John Polkinghorne (both Anglicans...which is where I was raised)

4) good things being done by religious people/Xtians. A xtian woman who has been feeding plates of breakfast to homeless people every Sunday morning for 35 years or so; an Episc church that gives away 3 days worth of groceries to anyone who asks, no questions, no requirements, available every Saturday; a friend who develops friendships and spearheads classes on all kinds of topics for personal growth in a local veterans' homeless shelter because she loves Jesus.

5) related to service to the needy: I haven't found any local secular groups who are serving the poor. (Haven't really searched, though)...but at first glance I see religious groups dedicated to giving back, but I don't see non religious groups doing so. and this is in my own home town. I don't know how things are outside of SLC.

 

So there is a cognitive dissonance of sorts, stemming from my own disbelief in the bible, PLUS my observation that those who are actually doing good in my town are those who do have faith PLUS the fact that there exist in this world, intelligent, rational, reasonable people who have thought it out and do believe.

 

Meanwhile, I'm living my life based on what I believe is right for me, including being sexually active even though I'm not married to the one I'm doing it with, and enjoying "forbidden" literature and movies that were frowned upon by me/my leadership for 30 years. Actually I'm as unhappy at the things that were given up, that really are good, as I am about the lying and manipulation. John Irving. Queen. JK Rowling. Steinbeck. Darwin. Hell, there is so much REALLY GOOD in the world that is either frowned upon or ignored, and that pisses me off. Thirty-three years of NOT filling myself with THOSE ideas. argh.

 

Sometimes I miss living for God; often I miss community. I'm weighing my options, possibly starting with donating to the food pantry mentioned at the Episc church. Donating some items to them once a month or something. Getting outside my own self, because that is the direction I seem to be drifting and I don't want to be that person.

 

Go to work. Come home. Turn on TV. Eat a meal. Visit a bit. Hit the hay and either sex and sleep, or snuggle and sleep. Wake up. Go to work. Do all over again. That is not for me. I want to do something that makes a difference, even if it amounts to giving away some canned green beans and boxed potato side dishes. I have even had communion on my mind lately. ... nah. Can't do that. Still, even with my "cognitive dissonance" I want to belong to something that is more than myself. In fact some of the unease I experience hinges on this...I need more than just myself and my little life.

 

[Geezer]

Rethinking religion, for a long time believer, is usually a journey not an event. And each persons journey is different. You are where you are now, but your journey will likely take you down many more paths before it ends.

 

Welcome to ex-Christian, I hope you find information here that will make your journey easier.

[mymistake]

It's okay to have religion and it's okay to choose your own spirituality.  Do what works for you.

[Burny]

Whatever works for you. Just remember that there's good Vikings, Azteks, Romans, Muslims, Hindi, Bhuddists and Wicans too. There are good people and bad people. They just happen to belong to a certain group of people and you register the Christians because that's the group you align with. I could give MANY examples of horrible people who were Christians too. It goes both ways.

 

As far as leaving one group just to join another - I agree 100% with you. Atheists and free thinkers can be just as dogmatic about their ideas and it can be equally distasteful.

[Mythra]

I know that some people here find mockery distasteful. But it's not done just to be cruel-spirited or rude. It's part of the process of escaping the religious mindset. The process of de-fanging religion.  Rendering it powerless.  By making fun of it, you are demonstrating that it no longer terrorizes you.  No longer holds you hostage.  

 

It's not for everyone.  But there are many different kinds of people here.   I don't understand some of the heavy philosophical and physics discussions, and I can't even participate.  But I still enjoy reading them. 

[bunzooh]

Whatever works for you. Just remember that there's good Vikings, Azteks, Romans, Muslims, Hindi, Bhuddists and Wicans too. There are good people and bad people. They just happen to belong to a certain group of people and you register the Christians because that's the group you align with. I could give MANY examples of horrible people who were Christians too. It goes both ways.

 

As far as leaving one group just to join another - I agree 100% with you. Atheists and free thinkers can be just as dogmatic about their ideas and it can be equally distasteful.

you got that right. One mini step in my journey was years ago, before I realized how the bible really is, was an online article about a man in India...a Hiindu I think, though his religion was never mentioned...who was taking meals and medical supplies to the lowest castes in his society. Essentially someone in the Brahmin or some other high caste, giving of himself in order to help people who had nothing. That's GOODNESS, in a non-Christian. And I dated an atheist for a few months...truly one of the best men I've ever met. Really a good person, and utterly despising of religion. So yeah...there are people of all walks of life who are REALLY good, who do good things, who are honest to the core.

 

But I've never seen a non-religious community dedicated to serving the needy. That doesn't mean there is none. Just that I haven't seen one.

[yunea]

Bun, check out www.kiva.org/team/atheists and you will see lots of atheists helping the needy.

 

If you like, google Azusa Street Survivors. It's a web community for former charismatics, many of whom aren't atheist. It's very different to this website.

[Burny]

Check out Responsible Charity on Facebook for another Atheist organization that helps the poor in India. There are many more examples, like you said you simply aren't familiar with them because they aren't "your people".

 

Once you start looking you find many non-Christian organizations helping the less fortunate. That being said, most Christians do feel an obligation to assist the poor and needy, because Jesus, as an Essene Jew, espoused the abandonment of wealth and the assistance of the needy. This is a great thing. I just wish he didn't follow that up with so many harsh (eternal?) judgments on anyone who disagreed with him. That kind of takes the goodness away in my books.

 

Why not just do good without doing the judging? And most modern Christians forget or don't realize that Jesus did do a LOT of judging. He even introduced the concept of eternal suffering which still doesn't exist in the Jewish faith today!

[sdelsolray]

...

But I've never seen a non-religious community dedicated to serving the needy. That doesn't mean there is none. Just that I haven't seen one.

 

 

The United States government, among other secular governments, provide billions of dollars each year to the needy.

[bunzooh]

The US government isn't a community though...a group of people you have things in common with, that you can spend time doing things with. I had that with church, and there is a group in town that is secular. That's what I'm talking about. Community.

 

I'm going to see about Azusa Street survivors. thanks for the input, all.

[ALackOfColor]

The whole process takes a long time. I've been de-converting for probably 5 years now. For me, it was one thing at time, just adding to the list of things I could no longer believe or support. When I began reading about Jesus, about the historical evidence of his existence (or lack thereof) and all of the pagan gods who came before him who share his story, that was a huge nail in the coffin for me.

 

But like you, I do miss the community and the service aspect, but like others mentioned, there are a lot of secular communities who serve. In fact, I think they serve a lot more for political type causes or social rights issues. But I would suggest that if it isn't something you can find in your community, maybe consider trying to start your own. Or be like the old woman who serves breakfast to the homeless. Go buy a bunch of mcmuffins every saturday morning and drive around, passing them out to the local homeless. The choice to do a service for your community is within you, not specific to the church.

 

Also, bear in mind that a lot of the service attitude of religious folk comes from the need to do "works" for God. Sometimes genuine empathy is not actually there.

[Margee]

 I want to belong to something that is more than myself. 

 

Hi bunzooh. Thanks for sharing. We certainly understand what you are going through. It so good to write it all out. This is just a little suggestion (and pun) for you right now, to keep you going until you find that something that fills that void. Your very own G.O.D. - Good, Orderly Direction... You take the reins for the time being.....

 

Just keep posting here and venting what you are going through and take good care of YOURSELF in the process. Keep carrying on in life. Keep enjoying what you can. Go for walks. Go to funny movies. Do anything that helps you to take care of your own business right now until you get this all figured out. It's a bit of a bumpy road. Forming a new world view after believing something else to be true for so long can be hard. You're going to make it. Once the cognitive dissonance calms down a bit, you'll be able to see things in a different light. Do this in bite size pieces. Its gonna be alright my friend.

 

(hug)

[Klym]

I understand exactly what you mean about the anger and bitterness. I, too, left ExC for awhile because of that very thing. But then I realized that alot of posters here, myself included, have been deeply and irrevocably hurt and traumatized by the Christian religion. What appears as hate and anger is really just the outer crust of protection against being hurt again. I tend towards a great deal of bitterness myself. I have to work on that every single day of my life---I deeply desire to be BETTER, not BITTER.

 

I have been de-converting now for seven years and I'm still not there yet. It's a long and very difficult process. I also want to be part of something greater than myself. I have found the community I so needed at a Unitarian Universalist church in my area. You can go online at UUA.org to find a UU fellowship near you. I like UUism because it does not promote a particular creed or doctrine---UU's covenant to affirm seven principles which I cherish and try to live by. You can find those seven principles on their website.

 

I also don't want to jump from one group of people to another. There are good and bad in all people and in every group. Most of my friends at my UU church are agnostics and atheists and they do a great many good deeds. Good deeds are certainly not limited to just Christians.

 

All the best to you on your continuing search. Hugs!

 

Klym

[JenniferG]

 

Also, bear in mind that a lot of the service attitude of religious folk comes from the need to do "works" for God. Sometimes genuine empathy is not actually there.

Ain't that the truth! I wasted over half my life forsaking my own needs, desires, creativity, and ambitions because of the need to "work" for God!

[JenniferG]

The whole process takes a long time. I've been de-converting for probably 5 years now. For me, it was one thing at time, just adding to the list of things I could no longer believe or support. When I began reading about Jesus, about the historical evidence of his existence (or lack thereof) and all of the pagan gods who came before him who share his story, that was a huge nail in the coffin for me.

 

Same here. Also, it was the religious abuse that was literally affecting my mental health.

[bunzooh]

Klym, in fact, I am forever indebted to the UU church, because they have a LGBT youth group in the town where I used to live...which was available to my daughter as she was struggling so hard to realize she is gay...her Xtian youth group was not supporting her (They didn't kick her out or anything, but her orientation was simply beyond them...she could not be who she was and they didn't understand or try to help her pain)

 

I watched her go from dark and scary "down"...weepy, non communicative, unhappy...to bright and responsive, excited about life, and powerful. Thanks to "Outreach" which is NOT SOMETHING any evangelical church would sponsor, that's for sure. Maybe I'll find something along those lines. I also know of a homeless service, full plates of hot breakfast every Sunday morning. I could get behind that. It is a xtian group,. but not preachy. It isn't a pew sitting, lean back and listen, then coffee and treats and visiting and see you next Sunday thing, but very other oriented. Practical assistance to needy people.

[Daffodil]

Greetings. I have been away for several weeks, while my personal life has been adjusting...my personal life and my inner life, in fact. One of the reasons I stepped away here is the anger I read, especially in the rants and replies forum. There's so much bitterness and I didn't like the mockery, so I just stopped. I needed to think on my own, too. Like...why go from having one group of people tell me what to think, just to pick up opinions at a website dedicated to the opposite?

 

anyway, I haven't been thinking about this much, but lately have realized where I am in my beliefs:

 

1) the bible is deeply flawed and unreliable. And the god it depicts is pretty much a dick whom I refuse to follow even if he does exist.

2) the resurrection of Jesus. I do still believe in this. I have my reasons, and part of that is simply clinging to Jesus, whom I have loved too long to simply walk away.

3) related to belief in the resurrection: there are truly intelligent, highly educated individuals who DO believe in Jesus, who DO see the bible as valuable. Scientific minds that hold onto faith. I want to read more from them. Two in particular: NT Wright and John Polkinghorne (both Anglicans...which is where I was raised)

4) good things being done by religious people/Xtians. A xtian woman who has been feeding plates of breakfast to homeless people every Sunday morning for 35 years or so; an Episc church that gives away 3 days worth of groceries to anyone who asks, no questions, no requirements, available every Saturday; a friend who develops friendships and spearheads classes on all kinds of topics for personal growth in a local veterans' homeless shelter because she loves Jesus.

5) related to service to the needy: I haven't found any local secular groups who are serving the poor. (Haven't really searched, though)...but at first glance I see religious groups dedicated to giving back, but I don't see non religious groups doing so. and this is in my own home town. I don't know how things are outside of SLC.

 

So there is a cognitive dissonance of sorts, stemming from my own disbelief in the bible, PLUS my observation that those who are actually doing good in my town are those who do have faith PLUS the fact that there exist in this world, intelligent, rational, reasonable people who have thought it out and do believe.

 

Meanwhile, I'm living my life based on what I believe is right for me, including being sexually active even though I'm not married to the one I'm doing it with, and enjoying "forbidden" literature and movies that were frowned upon by me/my leadership for 30 years. Actually I'm as unhappy at the things that were given up, that really are good, as I am about the lying and manipulation. John Irving. Queen. JK Rowling. Steinbeck. Darwin. Hell, there is so much REALLY GOOD in the world that is either frowned upon or ignored, and that pisses me off. Thirty-three years of NOT filling myself with THOSE ideas. argh.

 

Sometimes I miss living for God; often I miss community. I'm weighing my options, possibly starting with donating to the food pantry mentioned at the Episc church. Donating some items to them once a month or something. Getting outside my own self, because that is the direction I seem to be drifting and I don't want to be that person.

 

Go to work. Come home. Turn on TV. Eat a meal. Visit a bit. Hit the hay and either sex and sleep, or snuggle and sleep. Wake up. Go to work. Do all over again. That is not for me. I want to do something that makes a difference, even if it amounts to giving away some canned green beans and boxed potato side dishes. I have even had communion on my mind lately. ... nah. Can't do that. Still, even with my "cognitive dissonance" I want to belong to something that is more than myself. In fact some of the unease I experience hinges on this...I need more than just myself and my little life.

Just a few thoughts:

 

1. Yup!

 

2. Perfectly understandable. I never felt a closeness to Jesus so that wasn't an issue for me, but I totally understand not wanting to abandon someone you know as a friend.

 

3. As geezer stated, deconverting is usually a journey. Very few of us had a sudden "lightbulb" moment. I kept reading more and more progressive thinkers until I found myself in agnostic territory.

 

4. Though Christians will swear they are the only ones capable of doing these kinds of things, you will find (if you start looking) that they are not. It's just that they (oddly, considering their book tells them not to parade it around) have a habit of trumpeting it to the masses.

 

5. Consider where you're from. There may not be a need because the Mormons and other faith-based groups have it covered. Look at other major cities for inspiration. Here's an interesting article: http://ieet.org/index.php/IEET/more/pellissier20111125

I have also read that when comparing believer/atheist giving, believers overwhelmingly give to their churches who keep that money "in house" to pay salaries and maintain buildings while atheists give to worthy causes, so the numbers can be misleading.

 

Lastly, as to the anger you see here, some have very good reason to be angry. As you spend more time here, though, you will find that there are tons of compassionate, kind-hearted individuals that will not judge you as you have been judged by believers and will not criticize your lifestyle choices.

 

Welcome!