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Goodbye Jesus

When Can I Start My Own Life?


Dryden

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Long story short I was born into a fundamentalist christian church. My experience look like the documentary "Jesus Camp". The church was a mega church that also did the whole televangelist thing. I met my former wife there and worked at the church for years. I went to Bible College and changed my stance on doctrine and followed a pastor to become a missionary. I've lost everything. I've given thousands of dollars through out the years to these organizations. I won't blame my failed marriage on leaving the religion but it had a great impact. My sole purpose in life was to become a pastor and preach the God news. 

 

I had PTSD coming out from the last church I was in. I couldn't function at all. I've been in therapy for almost a year in dealing with the symptoms, the constant guilt, and learning how to feel emotions. I've read a lot and watched a ton of documentaries trying to figure out my church experience which I now would describe as a cult. Religious trauma syndrome would fit my bill exactly.

 

I'm mad all the time and I feel spiritual raped by these people. I just wish I could let it go and move on but it's always there in the back of my head.

 

I'm also having a difficult time trying to figure out a career path or really making any decisions at all. Currently I don't have any marketable skills to get a job that pays a livable wage because I sought ministry work or served my life away at the church. I'm almost in my mid thirties and I can't support myself. When my wife left I had to move back in with my folks which I am grateful for but I feel like I won't every leave this place because I can't seem to get things going. 

 

I feel so lost and all I want is to be happy again and have a life. Can I every get to a place were my past religious experience doesn't effect my present?

 

 

 

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I too have wasted much on that cult.  You are not alone.  I tell myself that life begins right now.  Right now.  I try to make little changes and improve what I can.

 

 

 


 Can I every get to a place were my past religious experience doesn't effect my present?

 

Of course you can.  That is the real meaning of forgiveness.  Forget what Christians taught you, let go of the past and forge your own meaning in life.  Many of us are on the same path so sing out when you want advise or when you want someone to listen.

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I deconverted in my late 30's, thankfully my wife did too. We donated thousands of dollars to the church and our lives were centred firmly around church. The feelings you have are perfectly normal, albeit frustrating. You need to give yourself time to heal. A mental health professional can also help you recover from RTS.

 

Hang in there! You're not that old, you can start living a brand new, 100% FREE life right now! If you don't have kids, you're even more free. Take advantage of that. Imagine what would make you happy and go and make it happen. You can do that now...

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I'm mad all the time and I feel spiritual raped by these people. I just wish I could let it go and move on but it's always there in the back of my head.

 

Dryden, I'm so sorry you are suffering right now. Welcome to Ex-c. My heart breaks for you. It must be terrible having leaned on the hope of becoming a pastor (for purpose and salary) to wake up and realize that the whole damn thing was a lie. And then a marriage breakup....

 

I was so angry for so long, I can't believe my heart is still beating. There were times, my heart was beating so hard from anger, I thought I would have a heart attack. I despised being told a big lie. I had hate running through my veins and the only place I could vent all of this was on this web-site. You stay here with us, get the counselling you need and take slow baby steps to recover. Your mind is running at full blast right now like mine did. It's terrible.

 

Continue reading all you can, do as many fun things as you can, get out in nature, go out and take any job at a gas station if you have to for the time being (until you figure out what to do next) and  come here and post . Even if you worked at MacDonald's right now, it would give you a little money and purpose. Don't give up. Cry all those tears out of you. That's what helped me to start feeling again. Anytime, I get that frozen feeling, I know it's time to have a good cry. Then I can feel again and the depression lifts.

 

Here's a little document that might help you along. It did me.

I'm so glad you are here with us!!

 

http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-deprogram.html

 

Big (hug) for you today.

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Oh, I see there's a second thread that's a duplicate.  So I'll paste my answer here and maybe the other one can be deleted.

 

Dryden, on 17 Nov 2015 - 11:17 PM, said:snapback.png

 

 

I'm mad all the time and I feel spiritual raped by these people. I just wish I could let it go and move on but it's always there in the back of my head.

 

 

 

I feel so lost and all I want is to be happy again and have a life.. Can I ever get to a place were my past religious experience doesn't effect my present?

We've all been there, Dryden.  Although it sound like you received a double-dose.  Not your fault, man.  Being born into a fundy family puts you behind the 8 ball from the time you're in diapers.

 

If were to give you advice, I'd say to flush the pondering. It's not worth your time. You may not recognize it, but you're well on your way to leaving religion behind already. If you get stuck on some issue from your past (like hell, for instance) - learn about it from a non-religious perspective.  Figure it out.  Since it was just human beings who invented it,  you can put the pieces together yourself and be able to discard the fear eventually. The man behind the curtain is just a little whiny dude. Not the big fire breathing character on the screen.

 

 And do something.  Take a job that pays less than a livable wage in order to develop some usable skills.  Don't just flip burgers though.  Think about something you have an aptitude for and aggressively pursue it.  If it takes some training, do whatever you have to do to get training.

 

You're still young.  And it's a pretty long life.  Don't be in this same place 10 years from now.

 

Welcome to ex-christian, by the way. smile.png   Make yourself at home and look around.   

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It's easier to fool people than to convince them they've been fooled. Mark Twain
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I was a deeply involved & committed Christian fundamentalist for 40+ years before I started my de-conversion journey. I've been out for awhile now with no regrets or doubts that I made the right decision. There is a light at the end of the tunnel. In my opinion education is a vital element in the de-conversion process. Reading the works of Dr. Bart Ehrman, and other religious historians, will likely be helpful.

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Big hugs Dryden. I'm so sorry that you're struggling and feeling like this. 

 

As other's have said it's not unusual, most of us have felt similar to this at some point. It can be overwhelmingly difficult to think and feel and function, but you can get through it.

 

I had a fair bit of therapy that helped, and I found allowing myself to be angry in a safe environment helpful. Listening to Music while walking or running was a good means for me to let it out.

 

Give yourself time.

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My heart breaks for you.  You're dealing with so many losses and traumas at one time.  I'm glad you're in therapy and working things through.  Like other people said above, having some interests completely outside of religion should be a big help.  Keep thinking about what type of jobs would be interesting to you, and just keep working.

 

I have no good advice, but I do hope things work out well for you.  You've been through a lot; be gentle with yourself.

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...

 

Continue reading all you can, do as many fun things as you can, get out in nature, go out and take any job at a gas station if you have to for the time being (until you figure out what to do next) and  come here and post . Even if you worked at MacDonald's right now, it would give you a little money and purpose. Don't give up. Cry all those tears out of you. That's what helped me to start feeling again. Anytime, I get that frozen feeling, I know it's time to have a good cry. Then I can feel again and the depression lifts.

 

 

...

 

 

Margee is a wise woman. Listen to her. The good part is that, unlike many others, you get to start over and not make the mistakes of the past.

 

Something that has worked for me, and you might try, is to take a class at a community college. Any class. Welding. Contemporary American Literature. Photography. Astronomy. Anything that gets you out and into a stimulating environment. And you'll find that, once enrolled, community colleges have lots of resources that can help you in other ways. Their career center can help you find jobs that fit your interests and skills. And you'll also find other people there who are also searching for new beginnings.

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Thank you, older, for mentioning the community college idea. Dryden, I think you have more skills than you realize. A career counselor can help you compile a resume, look for work (even if it's foot-in-the-door internships), and maybe even suggest a short course of study that would solidify your skills and give you the degree you need. And they can help you find funding for your studies, I would think.

 

When you were working in the ministry (even if it was unpaid), I'm guessing you listened to people, solved problems, organized stuff, took care of all manner of things. Those are skills, man! The world always needs compassionate social workers, professional counselors, and people in businesses who take care of all manner of things.

 

You are at a disadvantage because you are probably not aware of all the career choices in the regular world outside of that ministry. And you don't have a degree, I assume. But there are people whose job it is to help you find your career.

 

This is going to suck for a little while, I admit. But you are going to figure it out. You are taking the first steps by acknowledging your predicament, coming here for whatever support we can give, and "putting it out there" that you need some guidance. You are further along than you may think!

 

Please take some time to mourn, get angry, work through the pain. I totally get that, oh boy, do I ever. But please also take heart, have courage, and take steps forward to find light at the end of this tunnel. Busywork toward a career path will fill your head with other things to think about, and that will help too. You're on your way. Keep plugging away.

 

Don't be shy around here. We can't solve all your problems, but we can empathize and offer comfort and encouragement. We want you to recover and shine!

 

Peace to you on this journey, dear Dryden.

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There was a Korean immigrant in Baltimore who would look around for services that people needed. Then he went to the library and read how to perform those services. He made good money. I'm sorry I don't know the link to documentation; a friend from there told me of his story. But you can absorb a lot of stuff when you're past the usual schooling years.

 

And what older and RW said.

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Thanks for the replies.

 

Looking back I've gone through this multiple times and that is why it's hard to be positive and hopeful. When I was 24 and I broke away from the church but never left the belief system. I always held onto guilt and I thought what I was doing was wrong based upon the religion even though now I feel I did nothing wrong. I was going to bars and clubs with my co-workers. I was even shunned then by some Christians. Back in the Myspace days I had a friend who became a Christian youth pastor who wouldn't accept my friend request because I had photo's of me holding a beer. He sent me some long message about how he couldn't be associated with me because his youth kids could get curious about who he was friends with. Another time I was at a birthday party with a lot of people from church and I was hung over. I mentioned it to a someone who I thought I could trust and he ended up getting so mad at me that he laid a big guilt trip on me about it and left the party mad. 

 

When I was going through Bible College I was still working and serving the at the church I grew up in. My stance on doctrine started to change but I still had a faith in God. The pastor who married me and my wife who I severed under him as youth leader as well as a sound engineer for his youth church of around 150 kids. I gave countless amount of volunteer hours and didn't miss a Wednesday night youth service in years. I was always the first person to show up and the last to leave due to me running sound. He demanded perfection and I gave him it at a professional level without any pay. When I started to ask questions about things like prosperity (giving to the church 10% of your income or more so God will bless you with material wealth) or why the church didn't do more to help the needy is when he cut me off. At the time I was only asking questions to understand my faith better. He told me that he couldn't be around me because I was being to negative. I've know this guy since we were kids. Right before I left the church to become a missionary I tried to meet up with him 5 separate times thinking we were still friends. He always canceled on me for various reason. Even though I lived a mile away from him and 5 miles away from the church he never could make time even though I felt I gave him part of my life. 

 

The missionary church was the worse. My entire life was under scrutiny. I left but also found out later that the pastor manipulated me into leaving. Once again I pretty much gave this guy everything. The church was only 15 people and we wanted to be a missionary to the city we lived in. We all moved to the most liberal and opened minded area in the city of Seattle. Somehow my wife and I over a year gave 8K to the pastor and let him borrow my car for several months. Once again I was doing my due diligence to read and understand the Bible. The pastor claimed he had BA in theology. I started to once again started to question doctrine and the Bible when I was studying church history. After a lot of questions he made the claim I wasn't saved and then sent a whole rant to my wife at the time which it included instructions of what she needed to do as a wife to someone who isn't a believer. I still believed in God at the time. Once again I was shunned. 

 

Every time something like this happened I fell into a deep depression and would be filled with guilt. I always blamed myself. I felt that it was due to some sin or that I didn't do enough for God. I somehow was able to pick myself up and then throw myself into church giving more of my time and effort. The missionary group I felt like I gave everything to including my whole being. That is why it's hard for me to see the light at the end of the tunnel. I tried for so long and worked my ass of for years and every time it didn't work out. It really left me broken. 

 

When I left the missionary group I couldn't function at all. I didn't trust anyone and I had complex PTSD and didn't know it. I was suicidal. My marriage was a nightmare too. I couldn't work. I couldn't really do anything at the time. Instead of my wife being understanding she gave me an ultimatum. I either get help within two weeks or she would leave me. At this time my parents came over and tried to take me away from it all. I was completely co-dependent on my wife so I couldn't bare the thought of leaving her. I felt overwhelmed and didn't even know how to start looking for help because of this I reached out to someone who was apart of the church that I grew up in. He was a counselor and refereed me to a Christian therapist. The therapist helped me a little bit and got me at a place were I could function but he didn't understand what I was going through nor helpful in dealing with the guilt I had. He also wanted to keep me within the religion instead of me having my own independent thoughts. A couple months later my wife left and I was shunned by almost everyone I knew. I was applying for jobs and had several interviews but still no job The friends I had all came from the mission church and they all shunned me. One of them yelled in the street saying that it was 100% my fault that my marriage was in ruins. I then lost it again and admitted myself to a hospital for suicide. That is when I learned I had PTSD and they gave me an antidepressant. I found a job a week later and I was still seeing the Christian therapist weekly but he never addressed the PTSD. He just helped me get over the hump of the divorce. I stopped seeing him. 

 

This is when I started to feel better. I got laid off from my job due to a huge city construction project and I had saved up a lot of money. I ended up taking a vacation in ways and did what I wanted to do. I got into shape. I lost 65 pounds. I ended up joining and training at a circus gym where they teach you acrobatics. I ended up making some new friends and my self confidence was at an all time high. It all came crashing down in Dec when I gave up my faith. I thought I could just not believe in God and that would be it but that is when I started to remember all the crazy stuff that has happened in the church. I started to have panic attacks and flashbacks. I couldn't sleep due to nightmares. I ended up getting help with through another therapist who wasn't religious which she specializes in PTSD. I also started to read and watch a lot of documentaries. Once again I also lost most of my remaining friends that were within the church. I started to see them as judgmental and not loving. One guy who I would consider my brother his wife was extremely harsh with me. She said that my marriage failed because I had premarital sex with my ex. She then said I needed to wait to have sex until I got remarried. Every time I would visit them all the conversation revolved around was church and God. Another friend who was a missionary to Kenya who I gave him financial support his wife commented on my Facebook when i was tagged at a night club. She said "What are you doing at a night club?". No return calls after that.

 

What is frustrating I feel that every time I make a step forward something new gets uncover makes me take two steps back. In a lot of ways I wish God was real. It seem more simple to deal with. Everything would be okay if I just prayed, read my Bible, and went to church but clearly that hasn't worked for me. Instead every layer of myself that gets peeled off exposes more pain and hurt.

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Congrats on the weigh loss! Are you still going to the gym?

 

You have been shit on enough. Those people were not your friends. Now what you need to do is get away from Christians and make some real friends elsewhere. Try the community college thing (but stay away from philosophy classes for right now).

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Wow, Dryden, thanks for taking the time to elaborate. I've been through some of those things, not quite as heavy-duty as you, however. Those ingrates put you through the wringer. And in your quest to be the best Christian you could be, you moved from one user to the next, hoping the next would be the real deal, right? Just keep giving it your all, and eventually it will be awesome? I'm glad you finally noticed the pattern and saw those people for who they are. Do not feel bad about this -- many of us have gotten stuck in that trap. It's a real slap in the face when you realize some truths, huh?

 

I was heavily involved in our music ministry (singing and playing various instruments), so I feel your pain regarding all the Wednesday nights and trying to be perfect and all that. I had rehearsals on Monday nights for praise band, rehearsals early evening on Wednesdays for the Wednesday service to follow, choir practice on Thursday night, plus two services on Sunday (with another rehearsal between services, instead of chilling at the coffee hour between services). Not to mention, if I was playing piano that week for any of those services, I would spend hours every day practicing at home or at church (since their piano feels a lot different than mine at home). I once had the tithing discussion with our pastor, since I was giving 20-30 hours per week to the church (some weeks I gave 40 hours), did that sort of count? (This was in addition to being the primary breadwinner in my house, with a career, a husband, a young child, a house, a garden, and all that. Can you say -- burned out???) I didn't really get a response from the pastor, but other members said hell yeah I was giving more than my 10% just by giving them half my freakin' life!

 

And after all the using-and-abusing I endured (followed by shunning and all the shit you described), I too had to go the antidepressant route. I'm off them now, since I've worked through a lot of what you are working through now. Your current torment is not forever. You seem to be working hard, and that will pay off. Soldier on!

 

You mentioned Bible college. Did you finish a degree? You have options, believe it or not. I am a freelance designer, so I occasionally work in-house for medium to large ad agencies. (Mostly now I work at home, but starting out, I did a lot of in-house "perma-lance" gigs.) Two different agencies had account executives with degrees from Bible colleges. At both agencies, these guys were good at their jobs, clients liked them, coworkers respected and adored them. I'm curious about people's life paths, so eventually I ask where people went to school and how they came to this current job. I admit I was surprised when these guys said where they had gone to school. I once asked a close coworker if he knew about the one guy's degree (I'm from the midwest and don't know much about all the Bible colleges here in the Bible belt), and he said yeah sure, everybody knew. No big deal, other than a kind of wink that it's not as "real" as those of us who went to the big state schools. But who cares? The Bible college guys were working in the same agency as the rest of us, making the same amount of money, living the same career path. And on my side of the agency (the art side as opposed to these guys who were on the account side), many of the designers only had two-year degrees from tech schools, not a big fancy bachelors of fine arts like I have. But they have talent, went to school to pick up the technical skills, and here they are along side me (and often more creative than I am, I admit!).

 

My point is, having a degree shows that you have commitment and basic skills. It's almost a rite of passage. Having gone to a Bible college may not matter as much as you're imagining. (My degree is technically in art history, for pete's sake, but I work in the ad business and sometimes get job offers that have nothing to do with art history. But I have a degree and ambition, and that's good enough!) In my line of work, it's all about experience and portfolio, who cares about the degree. Of course, the economy is different now, so maybe my optimism for you is misplaced.

 

Have you considered teaching? I could never teach in the traditional sense, but I am open to the idea of one day teaching something like A.P. art history or comparative religions or something at our specialized public high schools, where all the advanced kids from the county converge for a few hours a day for special classes. Our state has a program to encourage professionals to become teachers, and they help with the certification process and job placement and all that. I've looked into it, and the pay is actually surprisingly good, and the benefits are nice too.

 

Sorry, Dryden, if I'm way out in left field with my ramblings here. If your brain is stuck in a rut (like many of us experienced), thinking about ideas from all directions can sometimes help.

 

I give you a ton of credit for all your have experienced and survived, and for coming here to share your story. You have put your thoughts together very well. You're in a hell of a spot right now. I wish I could snap you out of it, but alas, no.

 

You are working on it. You will come out of this! We hear you, and we care about your journey.

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I feel so lost and all I want is to be happy again and have a life. Can I every get to a place were my past religious experience doesn't effect my present?

 

I think you can certainly build a happy life for yourself. I'm not sure, though, that you can get to a place where your past doesn't affect your present. We are, all of us, the sum of our experiences. The choices you made in the past, and the things that you have experienced (voluntarily or otherwise), have led you to where you are today. The choices you will make today are affected by what has occurred in the past, and who you will be tomorrow is affected by the choices you make today.

 

None of us can change what has happened in the past. We can only go forward from where we are. But the good news is that you still get to choose what you will do today. You can decide where you want to go, and figure out how you want to get there.

 

I wouldn't be the person I am today if I had not had my own religious experiences. But I like who I am today, so the fact that my religious experiences have helped to shape me does not bother me. My advice to you would be to focus on becoming who you want to be. Do not focus on the past, focus on what lies ahead.

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I have an AA in Biblical Studies. The school was unaccredited. In ways I feel is a sham. My credits can transfer to some private universities. As for community college I did attempt to register and get myself back into school for IT but the process was to overwhelming for me right now. I don't even know if that is something I even want to do. I hate working alone. The only reason why I even wanted to attempt getting into the field is right now there is a huge tech boom in my area and starting wages are really good but I don't want to go to school for something that I end up hating. I did school before and look at what a waste that was. 

 

The most frustrating fact is all I've ever wanted to do is be a pastor. I thought that is what I was born to do. That was my sole pursue that God had given me and now that''s gone. 

 

I did go to a meet up group were there are people like me coming from a cult like church experience and it has help a little bit. It makes me feel like I'm not so crazy. 

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You don't have to pick a major right away. Take some general ed classes and go to the campus career center and take some of their tests to see what your aptitudes are. Many folks find out what they want to do as a result of taking classes.

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