Vigile Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 Thought experiment: If nothing really matters, go to the airport and shout "Bomb!" You'll find out real quick that things matter, ultimate, be damned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dichotomy Posted November 19, 2015 Author Share Posted November 19, 2015 So, as far as being nihilistic goes, we should probably be clear what we're talking about, as it's a very big term with a great many variations. If it's as described in the OP,[ Has your loss of faith meant a complete eradication of any form of meaning and spirituality and purpose ] yes, I can get onboard with that. If it's this: Nihilism is sometimes used in association with anomie to explain the general mood of despair at a perceived pointlessness of existence that one may develop upon realising there are no necessary norms, rules, or laws. That doesn't describe me at all. I'm with Disillusioned. I enjoy life. I love life. I love love. I love laughter. And I don't have any issues whatsoever with despair or melancholy. So, I'm an atheist for sure, and have been for 10 years. But nihilism,maybe not so much. Oh no, for me nihilism is just that there is no objective point, value, meaning or purpose to life. Subjective meaning is all we have, and that's what keeps us going and makes atheism and nihilism so freeing. The problem I have is that when I'm feeling depressed and low I fall into the trap of the despair side of things, but that's not true nihilism, that's well, depression and despair and emotional pain, of which I feel intensely and often unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
violetbutterfly Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 Disillusioned had a great answer. I'd like to add that right now I am having a bit of a personal crisis about it. One of my biggest pet peeves is hearing "everything happens for a reason" or "it wasn't meant to be." I'm three years into trying to move past some incredibly painful disappointments and regrets. I believe that life, on a day to day basis, is a series of choices. We make a choice and we live with the results. Sometimes they are negative consequences. I'm trying to forgive myself (for choices made when I was a Christian, go figure) and also accept that I have no control over other people's choices. No matter how hard you try to fill your life with your own meaning, purpose and happiness, sometimes things are out of your control and sometimes things simply suck. I think this is what makes life difficult for me. For the most part as an atheist the best part about it has been that there is no absolute obtainable, objective truth or purpose to life. There's no moral code or meaning or expectation, life just is. I am free to make my own meaning in life and decide what matters to me and why (well as much as anyone has free will to do so, I'm not entirely convinced we have complete free will). But, when things happen in life that are hard to deal with, and/or out of my control, which unfortunately appears to be often, it's hard not to fall into the "why bother it's all pointless anyway." Ultimately I think that the fact that it is all meaningless, that *nothing* matters, is quite freeing and creates an equality that didn't exist when I was a Christian. No one thing, no one life choice or path or person is more valid than another. Success is purely subjective, everything is subjective. This makes life more interesting, because it is what you make of it, and purely because you wish to. But although I can think that on an intellectual level, I find that my emotions don't like to match up with this so easily! Personally, when things that I cannot control happen, I find comfort in the fact that it ultimately doesn't matter. 200 years from now, no one will know who I was or what I did with my life. It won't matter if I die at 75 or 85 or 35. So I don't waste too much time worrying about the things that I can't control. But there are some things that I can control, and I try to do what I can with those. And yes, sometimes things just suck. In those times, we just carry on. Because what else can we do? Get busy living, or get busy dying. I choose life. True. But in my one particular situation, I lost a person I love because of religion. My life would just be better if he was in it, and I miss him. It's not stopping me from living life, but it does make me bitter and sad sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dichotomy Posted November 19, 2015 Author Share Posted November 19, 2015 Disillusioned had a great answer. I'd like to add that right now I am having a bit of a personal crisis about it. One of my biggest pet peeves is hearing "everything happens for a reason" or "it wasn't meant to be." I'm three years into trying to move past some incredibly painful disappointments and regrets. I believe that life, on a day to day basis, is a series of choices. We make a choice and we live with the results. Sometimes they are negative consequences. I'm trying to forgive myself (for choices made when I was a Christian, go figure) and also accept that I have no control over other people's choices. No matter how hard you try to fill your life with your own meaning, purpose and happiness, sometimes things are out of your control and sometimes things simply suck. I think this is what makes life difficult for me. For the most part as an atheist the best part about it has been that there is no absolute obtainable, objective truth or purpose to life. There's no moral code or meaning or expectation, life just is. I am free to make my own meaning in life and decide what matters to me and why (well as much as anyone has free will to do so, I'm not entirely convinced we have complete free will). But, when things happen in life that are hard to deal with, and/or out of my control, which unfortunately appears to be often, it's hard not to fall into the "why bother it's all pointless anyway." Ultimately I think that the fact that it is all meaningless, that *nothing* matters, is quite freeing and creates an equality that didn't exist when I was a Christian. No one thing, no one life choice or path or person is more valid than another. Success is purely subjective, everything is subjective. This makes life more interesting, because it is what you make of it, and purely because you wish to. But although I can think that on an intellectual level, I find that my emotions don't like to match up with this so easily! Personally, when things that I cannot control happen, I find comfort in the fact that it ultimately doesn't matter. 200 years from now, no one will know who I was or what I did with my life. It won't matter if I die at 75 or 85 or 35. So I don't waste too much time worrying about the things that I can't control. But there are some things that I can control, and I try to do what I can with those. And yes, sometimes things just suck. In those times, we just carry on. Because what else can we do? Get busy living, or get busy dying. I choose life. True. But in my one particular situation, I lost a person I love because of religion. My life would just be better if he was in it, and I miss him. It's not stopping me from living life, but it does make me bitter and sad sometimes. Hugs ((())) I kind of know what you mean. I lost a couple of friends this year and my OH has bi-polar and it makes life really hard because in some ways I feel like I've lost him too, even though he's here. I can't do anything about it, I can't change it and there's just this pile of emotion left to deal with. I get that it's just life and we just have to make the most of it, but it's difficult sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disillusioned Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 Personally, when things that I cannot control happen, I find comfort in the fact that it ultimately doesn't matter. 200 years from now, no one will know who I was or what I did with my life. It won't matter if I die at 75 or 85 or 35. So I don't waste too much time worrying about the things that I can't control. But there are some things that I can control, and I try to do what I can with those. And yes, sometimes things just suck. In those times, we just carry on. Because what else can we do? Get busy living, or get busy dying. I choose life. True. But in my one particular situation, I lost a person I love because of religion. My life would just be better if he was in it, and I miss him. It's not stopping me from living life, but it does make me bitter and sad sometimes. I'm so sorry to hear that. Sadness and bitterness are certainly to be expected. And they are a reflection of the fact that while our lives may not have ultimate meaning, they nevertheless have a great deal of meaning to us. And sometimes things just suck, and nothing we can say can make it better. Hugs. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythra Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 So, what is the end-game for someone who has decided they are no longer a christian? It's not the same for everyone. And it doesn't have to be. I remember when I first came here, fresh out of christianity, even perhaps one foot still with a toehold in christianity. At that time there were only a handful of people here who listed themselves as atheists. And it was kind of a shock to me. When you're religious, an atheist is the enemy. And at that time I didn't foresee myself ending up there. Non-religious, yeah okay. Free from a head full of religious baggage? Definitely wanted that. But not atheist. Not me. But I read what the atheists had to say. Although they were kind of rigid and take-no-prisoners in their approach, I still appreciated the fact that they seemed strong in a way. Self-assured. And I was tired of feeling weak and dependent. And, without even realizing it at the time I gravitated slowly in that direction. Not saying that's an inevitability for everyone. To each his own. Maybe I just don't understand "spirituality". Or I had no more appetite for anything that might resemble just a different flavor of religion. I've been an atheist for around 10 years. The best thing about it is, there is no cognitive dissonance. You don't have to try and reconcile or rationalize your beliefs against things that are factual. You only have to dismiss other people's beliefs. Which are easily dismissable once you change your way of thinking. I feel solid and comfortable in what I think is real and my place in the world. And there's worse ways to feel. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjn Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 There are different kinds of nihilism. As far as I know, Nietschze - who invented or at least popularized it - saw it as a purifying state in which one did away with all illusions, and then built something of true meaning. Nietschze has a reputation of being dark and brooding, but the little I've read of him was actually quite life-affirming. I must admit I'm kinda stuck in a passive kind of nihilism though. I guess it can be attributed to my depressive state, but stuff feels so fucking empty and pointless right now. "Going atheist" did provide some mental clarity for a while, but... I don't know. I'm gravitating towards spirituality, and that is both comforting and scaring. I fear I'll succumb to my irrational thoughts and fears, against my better knowledge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blindsighted Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 I had to look up nihilism. Eccleciastes, over and over again, says to eat, drink, and enjoy your work. So aside from that I never found any other meaning in Christianity. I didn't lose meaning and purpose because what religion offered was too ambiguous for me anyway. I needed something practical that I could apply to my life. Take god out of the picture and I can still eat, drink, and enjoy my work. As for morals, I find myself falling into the humanist category. I can justify most behavioral restrictions and freedoms based on how it would impact all of society, not just an individual. But I get to think about the arguments first, without just accepting someone's word for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExCBooster Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 (The only thing I can think of when it comes to nihilists, are the ones from the movie The Big Lebowski...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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