Was There An Issue Or Event That Cracked Open Your Jail Cell Door?

[Mythra]

Did you guys have a single, primary event or issue that began your deconversion?

 

For me it was the holocaust.  And the implications involved in "no Jesus, no heaven".  I just could not get my head around it. 

The jews in  Auschwitz, Bergen-Belsen, Treblinka, Buchenwald and all the other concentration camps.

 

All were Jews, all of them, no Jesus.  All now in hell.  Forever.  And these were the chosen people of God.  And God did nothing whatsoever to help protect them from the Nazi's. The same God I worshipped and sang about every Sunday.   I couldn't live with myself.  

 

This was the single "POP" of my christian bubble that enabled me to begin my escape from religion.

 

Was there a single event for you?   

[Storm]

My Journey down the rabbit hole began when I started trying to reconcile the old testament law and new testament Christianity. And the trigger for that was tithing. I started studying tithing and started realizing that what they teach in church isn't anything like what the OT says about it. this lead to a disconnect regarding the law and grace. It all started unraveling at that point. As I continued to study this more, I stumbled upon a book written by a guy who left Christianity and then at some point, in a way related to that book, I stumbled onto this site and that sealed the deal for me. 

[Avandris]

I think the catalyst that prompted me to really start looking into Christianity was the death of my mum 5 years ago, it's not why I no longer believe but it is why I started to research and read and ask questions.

 

I had prayed and prayed for my mum's healing along with my mum herself, and literally hundreds of other Christians around the world and she still died just the same, in pain and discomfort from the cancer that had spread throughout her body, all the while staying true to her faith. I didn't understand why God had been so silent and when she passed all my friends and family switched their tune from 'we're praying and believing for her healing, God can heal her' to 'she's in a better place, God called her home, He has a plan for all things'.

 

I didn't understand why this God, my God, was so silent and distant. First I threw myself into my faith, praying for hours at a time, reading the Bible, sitting in quiet contemplation before the Lord. I begged and pleaded for his peace, for some understanding or comfort or anything. I got nothing and then the questions that had lingered in the back of my mind became too loud to ignore and for the first time I started to critically examine the Bible, its contents and composition.

 

I've got a lot yet to learn and read and come to a conclusion on, but from what I've read so far....well let's just say I'm no longer a Christian.

[Daffodil]

^ Very similar to Avandris. I was always frustrated by prayer. I once decided to study the bible to figure out how to get a prayer answered. I came up with something like 7 steps that included asking, believing and not doubting, having a pure heart/motive, etc. The first problem was that the list was impossible to cover. Of course I would ask, but how could I not doubt? How did I know if my heart/motive was pure? It was ridiculous! I got to where I would pray for others because it seemed like those prayers were sometimes answered (at least according to the person prayed for), but never for myself because I just could never get the doubt out of my mind. Then two major life issues came together over a 2-3 year period. I prayed earnestly to get pregnant (how could God deny that!) and never did. Then my dad, a pastor, died of cancer despite hundreds and hundreds of people praying for him for years.

 

Two things became clear to me. First, when people said that their prayers had been answered, it was really a hindsight "reformulation" of the request, such as, "I asked God for _________, but he knew what I really needed was ________. Praise God he answered my prayers!" No, no he didn't. I even used that one myself, deciding that the reason God never answered my prayers for pregnancy was because he meant all along for us to adopt our children. Second, whether a prayer for the healing of someone seriously ill was answered or not was completely random. Some were saved, some were not, but the final explanation was always, "God works in mysterious ways, but he always works for the good of those that love him." Ceasing prayer altogether was the first definitive step I took toward deconversion.

[mymistake]

I think the thing that got me free thinking was that I joined an unmoderated Christian forum.  When Christians from other denominations treated me like an enemy that was a real wake up call.  It got me thinking that my own personal behavior was not as loving toward outsiders and I wanted to think.  And that helped me realize that Christianity is not as loving as it claims.

[Blindsighted]

I had never even considered the possibility that there wasn't a god. But earlier this year my 4 month old granddaughter died. She endured two open heart surgeries to correct a congenital heart defect. Many, many, many people were praying. It was heartbreaking when we lost her, but I came through faith intact. It was God's plan I rationalized. But for my son, who was her dad, he knew that day that God was not real. Prayer doesn't make sense. It always gives God a pass no matter the outcome. His deconversion is probably more complex, but in this way it relates to me. He didn't tell me though, because he didn't want to hurt his Christian parents.

 

I happened to see a "like" of his on Facebook from an atheist page. It was as I was going to bed. Even though I knew what he had just gone through I was livid. How could he turn his back on God? But I thought I would at least read the "I fucing love atheism" website before I asked him what was going on.

 

So I stayed up hours, pouring over stupid memes that held more truth than I had ever admitted. It sounds ridiculous, but all the cognitive dissonance that I'd tried to reconcile about the Bible, about creationism, about suffering, and about prayer made sense when I considered that there was no god. And poof. It was gone. Faith was totally not there anymore. Life made so much more sense.

[RenaissanceWoman]

Wow, Avandris, that was a painful read. I feel you. What a harsh journey. And another example of throwing oneself into the faith and ending up ditching the whole thing.

 

Daffodil, I went through a similar prayer process. What a mind fuck, constantly thinking it was somehow my fault. I finally came to the same heart-wrenching conclusions you did. Funny how the efforts to get closer to god and his word push so many of us away altogether.

 

Blindsighted, another painful read. You summed up your events in a few sentences, but I know those sentences cover months of pure torment. I hope you are finding some kind of peace. Welcome. I trust you will find some kindred souls and some comfort here.

[dichotomy]

I wrote this in response to your comment on the other thread but will add it here:

 

Mine was much smaller scale but completely disgusting (imo).

 

A young newly wed christian woman died suddenly not long after I'd lost my faith. She was the member of a church that a friend of mine was connected with. Rather than allowing her husband and family to grieve the church leadership and a significant amount of the congregation went down to the hospital morgue and insisted on praying for her to be raised from the dead. apparently they did this for hours and were having all night vigils at the church because they were *certain* that God was going to use this as a testimony, miracle, evangelistic tool, or whatever. I was horrified and so angry. What a horrifically selfish and insensitive thing to do.

 

Actually, thinking about it, when I was still a Christian but questioning the church a similar instance happened to the above. A woman's baby died in utero at around 40 weeks and again, rather than doing the decent thing and supporting her in her grief the church congregation insisted that God would save the baby and prayed that when her labour was induced the baby would actually be born alive. Ugh it makes me sick to my stomach, I remember being so angry at the time but too scared to say anything as this wasn't my church, in fact I may have left church by this point, and this was another nail in the coffin of my faith.

[dichotomy]

When my Dad died I realised that I was losing my faith because I didn't care if he was in heaven or hell or not because I was beginning to realise that neither probably existed. 

 

Took me a good couple of years to admit it to myself properly, but that was a key moment.

[dichotomy]

I had never even considered the possibility that there wasn't a god. But earlier this year my 4 month old granddaughter died. She endured two open heart surgeries to correct a congenital heart defect. Many, many, many people were praying. It was heartbreaking when we lost her, but I came through faith intact. It was God's plan I rationalized. But for my son, who was her dad, he knew that day that God was not real. Prayer doesn't make sense. It always gives God a pass no matter the outcome. His deconversion is probably more complex, but in this way it relates to me. He didn't tell me though, because he didn't want to hurt his Christian parents.

 

I happened to see a "like" of his on Facebook from an atheist page. It was as I was going to bed. Even though I knew what he had just gone through I was livid. How could he turn his back on God? But I thought I would at least read the "I fucing love atheism" website before I asked him what was going on.

 

So I stayed up hours, pouring over stupid memes that held more truth than I had ever admitted. It sounds ridiculous, but all the cognitive dissonance that I'd tried to reconcile about the Bible, about creationism, about suffering, and about prayer made sense when I considered that there was no god. And poof. It was gone. Faith was totally not there anymore. Life made so much more sense.

 

I'm so sorry for the loss of your granddaughter, a horrible and devastating thing to happen. Xxx

[Margee]

I had never even considered the possibility that there wasn't a god. But earlier this year my 4 month old granddaughter died. She endured two open heart surgeries to correct a congenital heart defect. Many, many, many people were praying. It was heartbreaking when we lost her, but I came through faith intact. It was God's plan I rationalized. But for my son, who was her dad, he knew that day that God was not real. Prayer doesn't make sense. It always gives God a pass no matter the outcome. His deconversion is probably more complex, but in this way it relates to me. He didn't tell me though, because he didn't want to hurt his Christian parents.

 

I happened to see a "like" of his on Facebook from an atheist page. It was as I was going to bed. Even though I knew what he had just gone through I was livid. How could he turn his back on God? But I thought I would at least read the "I fucing love atheism" website before I asked him what was going on.

 

So I stayed up hours, pouring over stupid memes that held more truth than I had ever admitted. It sounds ridiculous, but all the cognitive dissonance that I'd tried to reconcile about the Bible, about creationism, about suffering, and about prayer made sense when I considered that there was no god. And poof. It was gone. Faith was totally not there anymore. Life made so much more sense.

Blindsighted, I am sooooo sorry for the pain you endured.  So Sorry. The trauma and pain is unbearable. ((hug))

 

My mom died  and before I could grieve that death, my only sister died who was 11 months younger than me and my bestest friend in the whole world died from a brain aneurysm and I inherited her two children. (whom I love dearly-their fathers were not in the picture) We had the whole city praying for her recovery and she still died. My husband couldn't take having any children and walked out the door on me one day during this horrible time. I was completely traumatized. I struggled sooooo hard to keep my house (which I am proud of today) Three years later my dad died of a heart attack. I was bombarded with grief and right to this day, I still suffer from all of it because it all happened within a very short amount of time. Then 9-11 happened and I knew I was done. I cursed god that day and I have been recovering from it for a long time now. I was diagnosed with complex-Ptsd 3 years ago and just about anything today can trigger me with fear..

 

Losing my faith in god was the single most heartbreaking thing that ever happened to me.

[Mythra]

Wow Margee - you've been through a awfully lot.  No wonder you have such a tender heart and such open, honest empathy for people who come here hurting.  

I already respected you, but it just went up a notch. 

 

[big hug].  M.

[dichotomy]

Margee that is such a lot to have been through and contend with. How do you keep going? You're an inspiration.

[amateur]

I grew up with agnostic parents.  The only thing my mom would ever say about religion was, "Don't take religion too seriously."  My dad had a bit more open approach, saying, "How do I know what will happen after we die?  I'm not there yet!  Death is the last of life's big adventures!"  So I always felt free to have questions and doubts; I did my best to believe in god but my concept of god was very nebulous.  I rarely voiced my questions or doubts because I never heard any rational explanations at church.  This was all in the 70's, so pre-internet.  My dad would say, "People invented religion and gods to answer the big questions of life:  why are we here?  where do we go when we die?  why do good people suffer?"  I agreed with my dad, but I still didn't understand how people of all ages and races came up with a similar god-type idea.

 

By the way, my parents did attend church, but it was a pleasant, liberal, stodgy Methodist church.  Apparently, their neighbors had invited them when they were new to the neighborhood, so they began going to be nice to the neighbors, then over time made friends with different people there, and my dad said when my sister was in the nursery there she'd come home filthy every week because she must've been crawling under all the tables and my sister loved going and crawling around and getting dirty, so they kept going because she enjoyed that.  It was also around 1961, so it was the socially-accepted thing to attend the local church.  When my sister turned 15, she quit going to church, announcing, "I'm going to start going to St. Mattress on Sunday mornings," and she did the laundry while we were at church, so my parents didn't complain at all.

 

My teenage rebellion was to become born again and take religion too seriously.  By the time my mom died of breast cancer when I was 18, I had totally quit praying and had gone back to agnosticism.  Religion seemed sophomoric to me after experiencing the end of my mom's life and her pain, which was very real to me, unlike religion by that point.  But I did keep trying to understand it.

 

The final nail in my coffin of agnosticism was reading "The Original of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind" by Julian Jaynes which finally gave me rational answers for why people through all of history and across the world had gods.

[violetbutterfly]

These are some heartbreaking stories. It sounds so selfish in comparison but the catalyst for me was my divorce. I'd gotten married young because I was trying to "do the right thing with God." Even though it felt all wrong, I thought Jesus wad my homeboy and God was blessing me and my marriage so everything would work out and I'd be happy because I was doing it right, not like those other sinners sleeping around and living together before marriage.

 

When the shitshow of misery fell apart and I finally left him, I felt so guilty for being divorced, not to mention angry for the things I'd missed and given up. I dove into Christianity until I was at a psychotic level but nothing helped. All I found were reasons I was a selfish sinner, an adulterer, and how I could never make things right. As it turns out, Jesus will forgive you for anything else, even murder...but not divorce.

 

I got so stressed out and angry that everything just imploded and suddenly I saw how ridiculous ALL of it was. And everything clicked into place. Everything mentioned above....the holocaust, 9-11, death of children and suffering of wonderful, loving people, the disgusting ways Christians treat people, the fact that prayer never works and whatever the result people have a justification that it's God's plan...all came to the surface of my consciousness. It never made any sense to me.

 

Until I realized Christianity is nothing but a bunch of delusional bullshit.

[yunea]

I was a New Agey Jesus follower (I have a history of for example Pentecostalism, where I was a magnet for personal prophecies and experienced lots of weird stuff; then I was a rather apathetic believer for some years). I dove in headfirst after during the course of a few months I'd lost my engagement, my brother (he just dropped dead one day, a week after my engagement broke), and my ability to study. Looking back on it now I had a burn-out and severe depression, but I thought the pain was me fighting back the work that God was doing to cleanse my heart, or something. Kind of like how wound cleansing substances always sting, but you're better off using them.

 

Things seemed to evolve fast, and I felt I was following sign after sign after sign, meeting all these meaningful people after one another, witnessing and doing what I thought were little miracles. I constantly prayed to Jesus, but never once felt that I was doing anything wrong - instead I felt loved and encouraged to believe more and more strange junk.

 

It seemed I was coming closer to the tipping point that would have me leave the whole old wreck of me behind and the prophecies would come true, God would deliver the big promises, my "gifts" would flourish - and then the person I thought was my spiritual leader, who would help me take those very steps, started eerily resembling this very seriously psychotic person I've known all my life. In fact so eerily that the whole thing, my whole life at the time, started shaking and breaking into pieces.

 

My endless prayers to Jesus gave me mental images of going through a magnificent shiny gate, so attractive and beautiful and full of promise if I'd just take a huge but simple leap of faith, but I absolutely could not continue. Was this the sin of not submitting fully to a figure of authority, and at the same time, God? Was I letting Jesus down? Was Jesus asking me to figuratively die for him? Was he testing me? Was he not on my side at all? What was left of my life? Continuing the jesusy path suddenly was no option anymore, but just earlier I'd thought it was the only thing left for me to do. I didn't believe I could study again or return to normal after having "seen" so much, "knowing" so much about the spiritual world.

 

I was suicidal. I was stopped, but the following days I had moments that I could not speak out loud for hours, or was borderline catatonic in panic. I told Jesus to never contact me again, because I could not trust a person who had encouraged me to truly go into my destruction - it seemed he didn't want to "love" me, he wanted warriors. For so many years I'd thought he was the one thing in the world I could always trust to stay with me and be on my side! 

 

Months later I realised that none of my experiences were proof of a god, I was just very good material for mind tricks, hypnosis etc, even if some of the people at church for example may not have known that that was what they were doing. I don't know what the "jesus" was that caused the mental images and the attraction to destruction until it became too real, but I guess it might have been my deep depression and self-hatred talking.

 

Well, now a psychiatrist recently told me I'm recovering well from the depression, and soon I'm actually going to have my first degree from the same studies I once thought I was done with. Plus I now know for a fact that unless I get a severe brain disorder or something, I don't have any further personal questions about religion and don't have to waste time wondering if I should explore it - it's obvious that I do better without. 

[Blindsighted]

It's fascinating how many ways there are to finally crack open the jail. And none of them are trivial or selfish. They just are.

[Mythra]

Yeah, right?  So far, not a single "I wanted to sin and not feel guilty".  

 

Just tales of survival.

[Margee]

Margee that is such a lot to have been through and contend with. How do you keep going? You're an inspiration.

 

Thanks hon, but I'm really not an inspiration. Just look at the pain on this thread. Look at the pain in the world. No one gets away without suffering at some point in their lives. We all get it. We all have to go through horrible losses. These stories are all amazing. The heartbreak, the pain that people must go through is terrible. I do have a great amount of empathy for anyone who is suffering. I got stuck with a very sensitive personality so I can almost feel the pain of others. I'm the stupid one that can barely kill a bug. There is a downside to being very sensitive. It can keep you in pain a lot longer than some other people who have much stronger personalities.

 

It just so happens that some of the shit I went through happened in a very short time frame and I did not have the time to recover from one thing before something else happened. It was explained to me by a doctor that all of us suffer Ptsd to a certain degree. Any shock that hits the body and mind can paralyze a person for awhile. The human animal needs time to recover. When I joined Ex-c five years ago, I came on here feeling nothing. I had no feelings. I was an empty shell. It was like my soul left and went somewhere else. My first 1,000 posts will show you that I was desperate for answers to life. And the gang here helped me to recover. The only reason I did not take my own life was because of my sister's two children. They still don't know that they saved my life. And so did EX-c. As I said, my first posts contained a lot of pain that I did not think I could recover from. You all, with your stories of suffering and pain have helped me to recover. You are all brave and have inspired me!!

 

I also have that personality that has a smile pasted on for the world. I could be thinking of taking that handful of pills while giving you a big, smiley hug at the mall. I would be the one in our community that would keel over from shock because I hid my depression so well from all of them. I would have made a good actress.

 

Reading these types of threads are what give me my strength. Knowing that we all are all in this shit -filled, bitter-sweet world together is what keeps me strong. All of us here.... trying so hard to help each other live a somewhat healthy, happy life by being honest with each other!!

 

You guys are all awesome!! Awesome, awesome, AWESOME!! AWESOME!!!!!

 

Thank you all for everything you did to help me in the last few years. Keep going. Keep strong. Don't give up!! I'm not going to.  I am going to make it in this fucking life. There's some really nice stuff in between the pain and I want to be around for it!!! 

 

((((( hug)))))

[♦ Fuego ♦]

I had been promoting a preacher/missionary for 9 years, made a website of his preaching (which seemed to drawn in the presence and power of god). I was drawn to him because he called sin SIN, preached that the church was way too comfortable to be obedient, and he lived out among the Mexican Indians doing hard work. He claimed all kinds of amazing miracles that he related in gripping stories. That seemed very genuine, so when he talked about raising the dead, I was enthralled. He seemed so damn honest. So did the missionary guys with him. I made a website where I digitized audio and video of him and made it available for free. People sent me tapes of him from all over the world.

 

I watched a series of videos from Germany where he preached in a large church. The translator had trouble with the man's southern accent, so he sometimes couldn't keep up with translating. No big deal, but it clearly annoyed the preacher. The next video I watched was of him back in America talking about what had happened in Germany. He went into great detail about a coven of witches showing up to challenge the power of God, and were cursing his translator who became unable to speak. He says that he leapt down from the platform and squared off with the haughty head-witch. There was a tremendous battle of power and she was thrown against the large glass doors of the auditorium and all her coven was knocked out by the power of Jesus. In the video, the church he went wild clapping. I sat there stunned because none of it had happened outside of his imagination. I knew instantly that all the amazing stories were made up. I was stunned that his men also report such miracles. But months later it sunk into my mind that this is classic cult behavior, to fit in with the charismatic leader.

 

Over the next 12 months of pondering, old questions began to rise up in my mind about no hell in the OT, god being a complete jerk, god failing to keep any promises and always having a "better plan". It took me a year of questioning and seeking answers to come to this website. A month later I posted my deconversion story.

[Storm]

Yeah, right?  So far, not a single "I wanted to sin and not feel guilty".

 

Just tales of survival.

I forgot to mention that I wanted to try eating a baby. I heard so much about that, that I just had to try it.

 

Sorry, to spoil your party.

[Mythra]

They aren't really that tasty.  With a little salsa, though....

[dichotomy]

 

Margee that is such a lot to have been through and contend with. How do you keep going? You're an inspiration.

 

Thanks hon, but I'm really not an inspiration. Just look at the pain on this thread. Look at the pain in the world. No one gets away without suffering at some point in their lives. We all get it. We all have to go through horrible losses. These stories are all amazing. The heartbreak, the pain that people must go through is terrible. I do have a great amount of empathy for anyone who is suffering. I got stuck with a very sensitive personality so I can almost feel the pain of others. I'm the stupid one that can barely kill a bug. There is a downside to being very sensitive. It can keep you in pain a lot longer than some other people who have much stronger personalities.

 

It just so happens that some of the shit I went through happened in a very short time frame and I did not have the time to recover from one thing before something else happened. It was explained to me by a doctor that all of us suffer Ptsd to a certain degree. Any shock that hits the body and mind can paralyze a person for awhile. The human animal needs time to recover. When I joined Ex-c five years ago, I came on here feeling nothing. I had no feelings. I was an empty shell. It was like my soul left and went somewhere else. My first 1,000 posts will show you that I was desperate for answers to life. And the gang here helped me to recover. The only reason I did not take my own life was because of my sister's two children. They still don't know that they saved my life. And so did EX-c. As I said, my first posts contained a lot of pain that I did not think I could recover from. You all, with your stories of suffering and pain have helped me to recover. You are all brave and have inspired me!!

 

I also have that personality that has a smile pasted on for the world. I could be thinking of taking that handful of pills while giving you a big, smiley hug at the mall. I would be the one in our community that would keel over from shock because I hid my depression so well from all of them. I would have made a good actress.

 

Reading these types of threads are what give me my strength. Knowing that we all are all in this shit -filled, bitter-sweet world together is what keeps me strong. All of us here.... trying so hard to help each other live a somewhat healthy, happy life by being honest with each other!!

 

You guys are all awesome!! Awesome, awesome, AWESOME!! AWESOME!!!!!

 

Thank you all for everything you did to help me in the last few years. Keep going. Keep strong. Don't give up!! I'm not going to.  I am going to make it in this fucking life. There's some really nice stuff in between the pain and I want to be around for it!!! 

 

((((( hug)))))

 

 

If I could *like* your comment I would.

 

We sound quite similar. I was kind of hoping that there was some magical answer to how to get through life without feeling like you're wearing a mask and barely keeping your head above water, but perhaps that's not the case.

 

I think that you sound sensitive *and* strong. Quite often the most resilient people are the ones who quietly suffer and hold things together for others. I think that as much as you've got from this forum you've given back to others. I know that I benefitted from your comments years ago and still do now.

[FlowerDemon]

When my ex and I had an arguement (when we were still together), I stormed out of the house and sat out in nature alone. Staring at the water, I wondered why god hadn't answered my prayer to bless our relationship and to help us through the struggles. I also wondered why god cared so much whether or not I had pre martial sex or not. Then I started thinking about everything i read in the bible that made no sense, and how my pastor said it is stupid for 2 people to be together if they don't both have love for Christ...along with this huge rant about marriage that I felt was passively aggressively pointed towards me. I cried after the sermon because I felt convicted to leave my bf for God, and my church friend was like "yeah that was pretty heavy, wasn't it? that's the holy spirit." no....it was more like a sermon guilt tripping me of my lifestyle.

 

Anyways, after all of that shit happened, I pulled from under the rug all of my questions and disagreements about Christianity, and started honestly examining them. And when I joined this site, I saw how people are joining this site almost everyday, and that was a lot of proof to me that the Christian God isn't real. If he really loved all of his children and wanted us to believe in him, why doesn't he make himself more obvious and how come he allows more people to deconvert and join ex-C? That's when I knew I was done with believing in Christianity forever.

[Eugene39]

Was there a single event for you?   

 

Yes, I read the Bible through. While there were several things, I couldn't get past the difference between what the OT says the Messiah is and what Christianity claims. Also there's the major difference in the NT of what brings justification - Jesus clearly taught faith plus works, while Paul teaches that works aren't a part of that at all.