Lilith666 Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 Yesterday was my grandfather's funeral. My dad's entire family (it was his father) is very Christian, so of course the service was at my grandparents' Baptist church. The minister kept talking about how they all know he's with the lord, and doesn't have Alzheimer's disease anymore like he did for ten or twelve years, and was just jim dandy with Jesus. At the visiting hours the day before that, people were wondering whether Grandpa was building his heavenly mansion or making a flower garden like the one before the disease. And at the memorial service, the minister had to remind everyone that whoever doesn't have the holy ghost in his heart is destined for eternal damnation. Obviously, the worst part was they were serious. I sat there through the service thinking, Don't flip him off, don't flip him off, don't do it... Most likely I'll never see my grandpa again, and there they were pretending it was all okay because he is in a castle in the sky and is doing great. There was some patronizing comment about "those who have no hope," as in don't believe in Heaven, and I thought false hope is worse than none at all. Telling a person with a terminal disease not to worry because he'll be just fine if he only believes doesn't help. It makes things worse because you wish so hard that it were actually true. Can't people deal with death honestly instead of convincing themselves it isn't really death at all, so that no one has to figure out what a crock it is and be all the more devastated when they do? I hate this religion. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythra Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 Sorry you lost your grandfather. Funerals suck. Especially fundy religious funerals. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilith666 Posted November 23, 2015 Author Share Posted November 23, 2015 Thanks, Mythra. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 Yesterday was my grandfather's funeral. My dad's entire family (it was his father) is very Christian, so of course the service was at my grandparents' Baptist church. The minister kept talking about how they all know he's with the lord, and didn't have Alzheimer's disease anymore like he did for ten or twelve years, and was just jim dandy with Jesus. At the visiting hours the day before that, people were wondering whether Grandpa was building his heavenly mansion or making a flower garden like the one before the disease. And at the memorial service, the minister had to remind everyone that whoever doesn't have the holy ghost in his heart is destined for eternal damnation. Obviously, the worst part was they were serious. I sat there through the service thinking, Don't flip him off, don't flip him off, don't do it... Most likely I'll never see my grandpa again, and there they were pretending it was all okay because he is in a castle in the sky and is doing great. There was some patronizing comment about "those who have no hope," as in don't believe in Heaven, and I thought false hope is worse than none at all. Telling a person with a terminal disease not to worry because he'll be just fine if he only believes doesn't help. It makes things worse because you wish so hard that it were actually true. Can't people deal with death honestly instead of convincing themselves it isn't really death at all, so that no one has to figure out what a crock it is and be all the more devastated when they do? I hate this religion. Sorry for your loss. You are absolutely right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythra Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 If you want to see a pastor do a tap-dance, attend a fundy funeral sometime when a church member's unbelieving spouse has died. They don't dare say he's in hell. Even if the spouse was outspoken about being an unbeliever. They have to resort to stale and transparent platitudes. "Well, who can say what was in his heart? God judges the heart". etc etc etc. Pastors hate doing those funerals. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 If you want to see a pastor do a tap-dance, attend a fundy funeral sometime when a church member's unbelieving spouse has died. They don't dare say he's in hell. Even if the spouse was outspoken about being an unbeliever. They have to resort to stale and transparent platitudes. "Well, who can say what was in his heart? God judges the heart". etc etc etc. Pastors hate doing those funerals. The pastors know who is paying them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythra Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 And at the memorial service, the minister had to remind everyone that whoever doesn't have the holy ghost in his heart is destined for eternal damnation. Obviously, the worst part was they were serious. I detest it when they try and pull that crap. A funeral is for saying last goodbyes and honoring the life of the deceased. It is utterly disgusting when they exploit the emotional vulnerability of family or friends by trying to recruit new believers. This is for you, pastor. I just flipped him off for you, Lillith. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daffodil Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 Sorry for your loss Lilith. I haven't been to a funeral since deconverting, but I know I'll eventually have to sit through that same crap. Another thing that bugs me about funerals is how the pastor has to sugarcoat the life of the deceased. I went to one for a man that was a lying sack of shit but you sure wouldn't know by what was said about him. I know they do this for the relatives but just once I'd like to hear an honest description of the person's character. "Joe was a piece of shit to everyone he came in contact with and we're glad the asshole is finally gone!" 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurisaz Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 The most disgusting thing I've ever heard said during a funeral was not from a pastor (well that's me having been in the liberal lukewarm German protestant church ) but from some attendants. I think it was at my mother's funeral years ago, can't remember correctly. While we were waiting for the ceremony to begin, some bitches whispered among each other (still clearly audible because the chapel was dead silent!) about the flowers and wreathes that this-and-that other relative had sent being soooo tiny and their own looking so much prettier. PSA: If all you can say during a funeral is how you want to show off with your fucking flowers, keep your pie hole shut lest you may lose some teeth. As for funerals in general and those myths, well I guess it's purely conditioning. Reminds me of one of the Earthsea novels where the hero find out that a renegade mage has find a way to get people back from the death realm and demands people's obedience for offering that way to him. His minions are the only ones in that entire world (among those the hero meets anyway) who fear death. The mage made them afraid of death in the first place, creating the disease for which he offered the "cure". Where have I heard that before? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Portobella Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 Sorry to hear of your grandfather's passing, Lilith. I definitely suspect that religion was originally born from inability to accept the seeming finality of death. I also think that Christianity is so popular because of the sunny picture it paints of death. Promises of eternal life help some come to terms with the loss of a loved one, but as you've mentioned, it is particularly devastating to realise you've been force-fed false hope. And false hope can indeed be destructive, especially when somebody is ill. During Christian funerals, I find the inevitable guilt trip into believing to be absolutely despicable - "Accept Jesus into your heart... it's what they would have wanted, because they want to see you again one day". Preying on people's emotions like that... it's just awful and manipulative. Sorry you've had this experience. Hope you're doing ok. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♦ nivek ♦ Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 Lilith, Best said might be he's free of that dammed dementia. Condolences to you and family for your loss. I make it a point to not allow preachers to get to that altar call shit.. Known to stand up and ruin the suited whore's timing. kL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedStar Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 It's truly disgusting when funerals are used to attempt to manipulate emotionally vulnerable people. The fact that they think they're doing the right thing makes it even worse. I always wonder how a xian copes when an unbeliever they love dies, it has to chew them up thinking that the person is being tortured and that it'll never stop. It's one of the cruelest doctrines I've ever come across. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wittyusername Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 I am going to write in my will that I would like a humanist celebrant to do my funeral. Many people probably won't even notice it's not 'Christian '. As Red star said above, I do not want my loved ones distressed at the thought of me in hell - funerals are for the living after all, however I do not want my death to be an opportunity for someone to spew that hateful, mind damaging shit. Edited to say my condolences to those of you who are grieving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythra Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 I lost my best friend recently to Alzheimers. It was an awful thing to watch. I had a good cry when he died, but then got over it. Because I knew he would not have wanted to exist like that for even a day. In the case of alzheimers, or anyone else who is really suffering, we can say "he's in a better place". Even if that better place is the cessation of consciousness. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwc Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 Sorry about your grandfather. My grandparents had basically pre-planned their whole services for ages in advance. So they both got what they wanted. They had religious services that suited them. I can't say the same thing for other funerals I've attended so I know what you're talking about. The families sort of impose their beliefs on the person which is creepy and wrong. The thing is if you dare state what you think you come off looking like the bad guy in everything. mwc 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilith666 Posted November 23, 2015 Author Share Posted November 23, 2015 Thanks so much for your sympathy, everyone. Grandpa was Christian, so the family and minister weren't imposing their beliefs on him. I'd have been so much angrier if they had been. Funerals are for the living, but that doesn't mean defacing the person's memory. Anyway, it pissed me off that everyone was grieving and the minister had to twist the knife by reminding them that any unbelievers (me and whoever else; my family know about my stance on religion) will go to hell. That is such an unbelievably classless thing to do. The point should be to alleviate grief, not to increase it! This just reinforces that Christianity is not a religion of peace or love, and is not harmless. I can't grasp what it must be like to believe that a person you love is experiencing unimaginable pain that will never end. I am sorry about your friend, Mythra. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Margee Posted November 23, 2015 Moderator Share Posted November 23, 2015 Yesterday was my grandfather's funeral. Lilith, I am so sorry to hear about your grandfather. May he rest in peace. I hope for peace for you also hon. (hug) And also, so sorry you had to sit there and listen to such bullshit. Even though I understand that people hold on to their faith because they are hoping so much to see their loved ones in the afterlife, the churches are so incredibly sick when using the fear of hell at funerals. I am learning all about how people use fear and manipulation to keep people under control. Stand proud my friend. As sick as this is (especially at funerals) you can be proud that you will not follow the crowd and be a phony. Unfortunately in these situations, we must also learn how to control our emotions for our dear loved one's sake and come and vent here instead. I give you the biggest hug in the world today. (((((hug))))) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blindsighted Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 I'm sorry for loss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilith666 Posted November 23, 2015 Author Share Posted November 23, 2015 Thank you, (Margee) and Blindsighted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castiel233 Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 A very dear family friend died some years ago. She was very old and had suffered from some sort of dementia. Her name was Vie and she was lovely At the funeral the vicar spent a good potion of Vie's service, telling us about his church and it's services times and how lovely it would to see us all there, basically using her funeral to sell himself. He naturally also reminded us that it "is faith in Christ, and ONLY in Him, that we have salvation" Anyway at end of this service, in which this ego driven "man of the lord" ensured he was the star billing, him and his organ grinder walked down to the car park in front of me. I got into my very battered and old Ford, while him and matey got into their very nice and shiny BMW's..... Now the message about not storing up treasures on Earth, seemed to have passed these two by 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilith666 Posted November 24, 2015 Author Share Posted November 24, 2015 That's hideous, Castiel. Funerals are for remembering the loved one and seeing him desecrate your friend's memorial service must have been awful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stamps1962 Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 My fundy father's funeral actually ended with an altar call. Anyone there who wanted to repent of their sin was invited to come forward. I sat there knowing that he'd deliberately arranged this in hope that his 'sinful' son would feel such guilt I'd go running down the aisle. Looking back now, I laugh. It just showed how little he knew me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cousin Ricky Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Shit Christian celebrants say at funerals:“Please turn to your neighbor and tell him or her, ‘God loves you.’”“Please turn to your neighbor and tell him or her, ‘God is good.’” (This by a funeral home rep, not a preacher!)“We will now take up a collection for our Christian school.” (Yes. At a funeral.)“Let us pray for those who did not donate to our Christian school.”Just in the past 6 months.At least I haven’t experienced an altar call or threats of damnation. (Catholic priests have expounded upon how the deceased went to confession, but the threat there is too veiled and indirect to bother me greatly; I find the hymn selections more triggering.) The down side is that the reason I haven’t experienced these may be that the minister assumes that everyone in the house is already a Christian. (This would be in contrast to the “no true Scotsman” attitude common among American fundies.) I wonder what would happen if a mourner shows up in a hijab. (I’m sure the Muslimahs in my community have many Christian friends.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burny Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Sorry for your loss. Religion is all about fear. Without fear, it can't exist. What are most people the most fearful about? Death. It's really that simple IMHO. Everything else is just window dressing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amateur Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Lilith, I am sorry to hear about your grandfather's death. And wow, I have obviously been lucky in that I have never heard of any of that at a funeral. Growing up in an old, sick family, I went to a lot of funerals. I counted it up once and between the ages of 4 and 9 I went to 11 funerals (with my parents, not alone!) and actually saw my one grandmother die right in front of me when I was 4. I'm sure I wasn't at all the services, but my parents never shied away from keeping us from the facts of life (after seeing my grandmother die, why bother?), so I know I went to some, and I do remember the after-service parties (luncheons or dinners, but I remember them as fun family parties, since that's about the only time I ever saw most of them), so I must've been at a bunch of services. My family wasn't very religious, so the services I remember were actually nice. The services for both my parents were nice. The minister at my mom's talked about what a nice woman she was, and always busy making something (she was a great cook and baker), and always making people laugh (she did!). We had the lay minister do my dad's service because he had known my dad for years from working in the steel mills together, and he did a lovely remembrance of my dad who was just a kind person, caring of others, a great dad, and loved the jobs he had. Both my parents were agnostic, and there was no mention of the "religious" side of things in either of their services. I am so grateful for that. I'm glad that my memories of funerals are happy, which I guess is strange to say, but really we went to so many that it was just a normal part of my childhood. I am glad the memories of the funerals and my extended family during them were just happy. I know for a fact that I would be a very different person today if my family had been religious, and if I had been subjected to 11 funerals with fear, guilt, altar calls, and collections at that young age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts