bird28 Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 I being the nut I am, have a psychiatrist. I told her about my religious dilemma and she said "that's an emotional decision, not an intellectual one" but why should I not use facts in my decision? I guess lots of people "go with their heart" but the heart does not know everything I.e. the facts about the evolution of animals. What do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dichotomy Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 Emotions are involved, but from what I've read on here, from my own personal experience, that of my husband and a couple of ex-christian friends, generally it is an intellectual decision over all. But that's assuming it is an active decision. I think for many people the loss of faith is something that they neither decide to do, nor "feel" like doing, it just happens that they eventually realise they've lost that faith. That the evidence before them, the experiences they've had etc. have led to them no longer believing. For me, were it an "emotional" decision I'd have kept my faith, because I *Desperately* wanted it to be real. NB. nothing wrong with having a psychiatrist or therapist etc.... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythra Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 How about this? An emotional decision followed by intellectual reinforcement. Just as your knowledge of evolution has shown a bright spotlight on creationism, exposing it - So knowledge of higher criticism shines a light on religious texts. Knowledge of cognitive neuroscience shines a light on the hypothesis of the soul. But a lot of people don't like it when facts get in the way of their attachments. And for those people I have two words: carry on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Furball Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 For most it is emotional. For some others, it is an intellectual one because they get fed a steady diet of false evidence from authors like lee strobel or josh mcdowell. For me personally, it was an emotional decision that I didn't want to experience the suffering of hell. If I had educated myself before believing, I would have made an intellectual decision to not be a christian. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♦ ficino ♦ Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 A cynical reply: she's a shrink, so she trades in emotion. Of course she wants you to focus on the emotion. That's what you're paying her to talk with you about. Not that she's a crook. Just that emotion management is her field. If she were a philosopher, she'd focus on arguments and probably, evidence. She might even say that it's an intellectual decision, not an emotional one. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moanareina Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 For me it was somewhat emotional and philosophical. Not sure if you can call philosophical intellectual. Somehow I see it as something in between. Because I never really did a fact check like studying science books or so. But I did a check on my own convictions on a philosophical level. But what I can say for sure, it has never been a decision. It just happened. Step by step, one by one. Maybe it would help you if you write down the things that trouble you. What is giving you difficult times. Then discuss this with your therapist and see how he can help you with the emotional side of it. My therapist tells me the same about other things. In spring I had a depressed episode of three months. During that time I had a conflict with my birth mom. And I got into the idea of wanting to find out all about my adoption, finding out if she lied to me and what really happened etc. (it's a complicated story...). I wanted to find out what kind of mental she is. My therapist stopped me by telling me that I would not get better by finding out the truth. I would only get better by learning to deal with the emotions that got triggered by this conflict. It took a bit more to convince me but I am getting there... I guess it won't hurt in your case to find more evidence and all. And it might also help you to get there with your emotions. But there is also a component that needs time and all to process. It took me a lot of thought and processing, as I said more on the philosophical part, to toss the doctrine of heaven and hell. To think it all through till it just made no sense anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daffodil Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 It was intellectual with me. I stuck with religion for years despite being angry and frustrated by it almost constantly. The few times I felt comfortable speaking my mind with other Christians, I honestly told them how annoyed/angry I was whenever I read the bible because of how contradictory it was. If it had been an emotional decision, I'm sure I would have let it go a long time ago. I just kept trying and trying to wrap my brain around it and finally couldn't tolerate the cognitive dissonance anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 I being the nut I am, have a psychiatrist. I told her about my religious dilemma and she said "that's an emotional decision, not an intellectual one" but why should I not use facts in my decision? I guess lots of people "go with their heart" but the heart does not know everything I.e. the facts about the evolution of animals. What do you think? In this particular case (I do not know the context in which this was said, so I am only speculating) I would say that the psychiatrist is inflecting her own values into therapy and that is a no-no. Therapy is about the client and nothing more. Instead of sharing her opinion, she should have explored what feelings you are having and what is the root cause of those feelings and how they are affecting your life. Then, once the root causes are determined, find a way to help you work through those issues and get you to a point where you are comfortable with who you are. You determine the outcome, not her. Its her job to get you there. It is certainly true that there is some emotion involved in deconversion, however, (without the specific context) I would say that she is allowing her personal beliefs to enter into the therapeutic relationship. If she is a psychiatrist, then she is a Medical Doctor who specializes in the treatment of mental illness and other related mental disorders. She should have a good working knowledge of how the brain processes information and how beliefs develop and why people think and believe the things they do. If she is making this statement, I would suspect that she is not applying that information appropriately. I also suspect that she is a believer, or at the least, someone who believes that religion is ok and perfectly normal. To a point, that would be true. Religion does serve a purpose and does have some social and cultural value. That being said, I suspect that she doesn't really understand the gravity of your struggle with deconversion. I don't think she understands that you are in the process of deprogramming. I don't think she realizes that you have been experiencing cognitive dissonance and that your brain is trying to develop a new worldview that is devoid of religion. This is a very difficult thing to do for most people. Personally, I feel like she is minimizing your experience. I want to make clear that I am only speculating based on a very small amount of information. But for her to make a statement such as that, I would have reservations about her willingness to help you with this particular aspect of your life. Its her job to help you become stable in whatever way works best for you. Her ideals and belief are irrelevant. She should know this if she is worth anything as a psychiatrist. Evaluate her based on your experience with this area of your life. If she isn't helping you get to a safe and comfortable place in your life, then you should consider working with someone who can get you there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amateur Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 I agree with Mythra: an emotional decision followed by intellectual reinforcement. I didn't find it hard to believe when it was purely at an emotional level. But when I had questions, then more and more of them, I wanted honest answers based in reality. That was the end for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blindsighted Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 But that's assuming it is an active decision. I think for many people the loss of faith is something that they neither decide to do, nor "feel" like doing, it just happens that they eventually realise they've lost that faith. That the evidence before them, the experiences they've had etc. have led to them no longer believing. This. There wasn't a decision. I couldn't have kept believing even if I wanted to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjn Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 I would just like to add that one can still retain a semblance of spirituality, despite going down the road of rationality and atheism. Using ones intellect is not the same as dismissing the heart altogether. We're not robots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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