Jump to content
Goodbye Jesus

The Devil Doesn't Know What You Are Thinking?


born1ce

Recommended Posts

One day in church last year, the pastor said something to the effect that "since the devil doesn't know what you are thinking".....

I was shocked...what do you mean he doesn't know what I am thinking? If he doesn't know what I am thinking then WHO is telling me all that bad stuff in my head??? For example:

 

I think in my head " I really hate that nasty bitch so-and-so" and then I have the thought "Hey, that's really not nice, I shouldn't think that way" and then a few minutes later I start hearing in my mind "remember when she did this and when she did that." So if that's not the devil, then it's me thinking that way and if I think that way then I don't have the LOVE in my heart towards everyone and aren't I supposed to if I'm a Christian?

 

 

So I asked someone- "if the devil can't hear my thoughts, then how does he know how to put bad thoughts in my mind or how does he know what I am thinking when I feel like I'm battling him" (as in the above example) and their reply was , "well he is really smart and he can tell  from your facial expressions and body language".

 

And that is when I was stopped in my tracks. WHAT THE HECK????? That has made little sense to me and it seems that this means that I am thinking these thoughts and no one is planting them in my head.   

 

Any thoughts on how this proves anything? (I'm still vacillating between belief).

THANKS!

 

 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I use to drive my self nuts with that stuff.  I was worried that Satan was putting thoughts into my mind and I couldn't tell the difference between Jesus speaking in my mind or Satan.

 

 

Fact is that all humans have an internal voice.  It is called sub-vocalization.  It's not the devil.  It's not Jesus.  It's not Casper the Friendly Ghost.  It's just your mind.  And if you don't like a random thought that drifts by your mind then all you have to do is ignore it until some other random thought comes along.  Thoughts are not crimes and they are not tricks.  You don't have to feel guilty about them and you certainly don't have to obey voices in your head.  Get that indoctrination out of your system and start thinking for yourself.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Since the bible isn't clear on any of this, people, christian leaders and christians, make stuff up to fit their needs.

 

If they need you to think that the devil can control you, they will say that the devil can read your thoughts or your body language or control what you do.  If they need you think that god can control you, they will say that god can read your thoughts and tell you what you should do.

 

The god and devil part is just made up.  If you've been alive a while and have dealt with people and situations a while, then you pretty much know what you should or shouldn't do in most situations, and who is trustworthy or not.  The first little voice in your head is past experience, for instance, telling you that someone is a nasty bitch because of specific things she did, and the other voice in your head is the part of you that is truly a nice person that wants to give others the benefit of the doubt.  But if someone has been really bad to you on purpose, it's best to keep a distance from them so they can't affect you so much in the future.  We learn to put boundaries up with people who deserve them because of past experience.  Letting people run roughshod over you again and again isn't doing them or yourself any favors.  Pretending that letting yourself be abused again and again by someone in the name of xian love isn't helpful to you or them.  It's codependent behavior and you're enabling them and allowing yourself to be abused (in an emotional way).

 

You don't have to face this person and explain to her that she's a nasty bitch, because you already know, from past experience, that that conversation will not go well!  Neither do you have to go as a friend to this person and keep telling her your personal business and extending friendship because you want her to know how much you love her.  You are entitled to protect yourself, and keep a healthy distance from the person, whether physically or emotionally.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for the feedback! Both responses make a lot of sense.  I  never thought that maybe my mind is my own. I was raised by an atheist dad and agnostic mother and I wasn't indoctrinated at a young age into Christianity---ALTHOUGH I grew up in Lynchburg, VA (Jerry Falwell's hometown) so I definitely had Christianity all around me. But, it seems to me that even from a very young age, I believed that God could hear my thoughts and that the devil was making me think bad things, even though I wasn't a Christian at the time, I had this magical thinking process. I don't know if it is because I was a child and children think that way, or maybe because I have OCD and people with mental health issues think that way?I don't know. I am so confused, thus spending Thanksgiving evening on the internet trying to figure it all out!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I read a book WAY back when I was taking a psychology class in college.  It was called A Guide to Rational Living by Albert Ellis.  It talks about how everyone communicates with themselves through internalized sentences. It's the REACTION to those sentences in your head that cause emotional swings and erratic behavior.   It's possible to reprogram the "dialogue" in order to reduce the emotions and behaviors that are causing problems.  The book left a definite impression on me. 

 

It's a book that's worth a look.  58.gif

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

For instance, your internal dialogue about the lady in church.  You didn't have to feel guilt over that.  By changing the sentences in your head to something like "that's bullshit - NO one feels love for everyone"  you could have changed the emotion.  It sounds like you're feeding yourself jive, but it does work.

 

I'm oversimplifying it, of course - because it's been 40 years since I read that book.  But the technique is pretty effective.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

One day in church last year, the pastor said something to the effect that "since the devil doesn't know what you are thinking".....

I was shocked...what do you mean he doesn't know what I am thinking? If he doesn't know what I am thinking then WHO is telling me all that bad stuff in my head??? For example:

 

I think in my head " I really hate that nasty bitch so-and-so" and then I have the thought "Hey, that's really not nice, I shouldn't think that way" and then a few minutes later I start hearing in my mind "remember when she did this and when she did that." So if that's not the devil, then it's me thinking that way and if I think that way then I don't have the LOVE in my heart towards everyone and aren't I supposed to if I'm a Christian?

 

 

So I asked someone- "if the devil can't hear my thoughts, then how does he know how to put bad thoughts in my mind or how does he know what I am thinking when I feel like I'm battling him" (as in the above example) and their reply was , "well he is really smart and he can tell  from your facial expressions and body language".

 

And that is when I was stopped in my tracks. WHAT THE HECK????? That has made little sense to me and it seems that this means that I am thinking these thoughts and no one is planting them in my head.   

 

Any thoughts on how this proves anything? (I'm still vacillating between belief).

THANKS!

 

 

It "proves" nothing.  Basic rational thinking 101 requires a series of statements/claims/evidence which, in total, present a conclusion that makes sense.  Study the "mere assertion" fallacy, which the pastor you referenced used more than once.  Of course, analyze your own thoughts which arose in response to the pastor's claim.  The pastor provided no premise, no evidence, just a bald conclusion/assertion.  The human brain is capable of much more, your brain included.

 

Let me deconstruct this further.  Someone said (a pastor in your church as if that's important), "[T]he devil doesn't know what you are thinking".  This is an assertion, a claim, a mere statement.  More accurately, it is a bald assertion, a simple claim and an unsupported statement.  You attempt to analyze this as if it were true in the first instance.  That is your mistake.  You should challenge the claim before going any further.  For example, how does this pastor "know" that, "[T]he devil doesn't know what you are thinking"?  What evidence does he provide?  None.  Not one iota.  This is a simple mere assertion, for which no evidence in support of the claim provided.  A rational thinker will reject the claim and have nothing more to do with it.

 

The time you have spent in response to the claim is wasted time.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

how the fuck could the devil tempt anyone into "sin" if he doesnt know what youre thinking? that makes no sense.

 

it's funny how Christianity claims to be a monotheistic religion, when they hold belief in the trinity, and then the devil. The devil isnt necessarily seen as "God" but he's known as the "god of this world." he is the one who temps us into "sin" and is something that christians must resist. So technically, Christians believe in 4 different deities!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

One day in church last year, the pastor said something to the effect that "since the devil doesn't know what you are thinking".....

I was shocked...what do you mean he doesn't know what I am thinking? If he doesn't know what I am thinking then WHO is telling me all that bad stuff in my head??? For example:

 

I think in my head " I really hate that nasty bitch so-and-so" and then I have the thought "Hey, that's really not nice, I shouldn't think that way" and then a few minutes later I start hearing in my mind "remember when she did this and when she did that." So if that's not the devil, then it's me thinking that way and if I think that way then I don't have the LOVE in my heart towards everyone and aren't I supposed to if I'm a Christian?

 

 

So I asked someone- "if the devil can't hear my thoughts, then how does he know how to put bad thoughts in my mind or how does he know what I am thinking when I feel like I'm battling him" (as in the above example) and their reply was , "well he is really smart and he can tell  from your facial expressions and body language".

 

And that is when I was stopped in my tracks. WHAT THE HECK????? That has made little sense to me and it seems that this means that I am thinking these thoughts and no one is planting them in my head.   

 

Any thoughts on how this proves anything? (I'm still vacillating between belief).

THANKS!

 

All the thoughts in your head are just you. 

:) 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderator

We were taught in Pentecostalism that all we had to do was say Jesus's name when the devil 'spoke' to you or you found yourself to be tempted into some kind of 'sin' and the devil would flee from you. woohoo.gif  Never really did work for me as hard as I tried...... yelrotflmao.gif

 

''James 4:7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.''

 

We  all have positive thoughts and we have negative thoughts. It's all part of being a conscious human being.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

     The devil doesn't know what you're thinking.  That's true.

 

     So god reads your mind and tells the devil what you're thinking while they're having one of their gambling parties like it says they did in Job.  "Hey devil did you see anyone sinning?  No?  Are you sure?  Did you take a real good look at Job?  How about we put a little wager on it to make it interesting?  Here's his dossier."

 

          mwc

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for the feedback! Both responses make a lot of sense.  I  never thought that maybe my mind is my own. I was raised by an atheist dad and agnostic mother and I wasn't indoctrinated at a young age into Christianity---ALTHOUGH I grew up in Lynchburg, VA (Jerry Falwell's hometown) so I definitely had Christianity all around me. But, it seems to me that even from a very young age, I believed that God could hear my thoughts and that the devil was making me think bad things, even though I wasn't a Christian at the time, I had this magical thinking process. I don't know if it is because I was a child and children think that way, or maybe because I have OCD and people with mental health issues think that way?I don't know. I am so confused, thus spending Thanksgiving evening on the internet trying to figure it all out!

 

This.  Yes, people with mental health issues, especially OCD, tend to think this way.  I have depression and anxiety disorder, so my automatic thinking can be erroneous, if I don't challenge it using reason and logic.

 

Do you have a good, secular, therapist that you see regularly?  They can help with this stuff.  sdelsolray's post is very helpful.  You can test these thoughts using rational and logical thought processes.  A therapist can teach you how to do this.  Also, I strongly believe that medication can make this process much, much easier.  Your brain chemistry encourages obsessive thinking, and going by what others with OCD have said about it on this forum, it sounds like the disorder would drive a person crazy with worry about things that aren't real. IMHO, medication can dampen that stuff down, and free up more of your brain power for tackling the automatic thoughts with reason and logic.  From reading posts, it seems that the difference in wellness between unmedicated and medicated is quite significant.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi FreeThinker, thanks for answering that. I actually am on different meds from doctor and they help a lot with most every crazy obsession I come up with....but the not knowing about going to hell or not or if it's real or not is the one that drives me mad. In OCD therapy I've had to learn to live with uncertainty and train myself to think " ok maybe I did run over someone " (for example)-- I have to live with the risk" and that by not checking to make sure I defeat the obsession and the anxiety lessens. However, this does not work with the hell obsession because of the nature of the matter-- that living with the risk could mean eternal torment perhaps. Even all the meds I'm on can't quell this obsession or the accompanying anxiety once I start thinking about it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Fact is that all humans have an internal voice.

Prove that since you are claiming that it is a fact.

 

Now I would agree that all humans have thoughts but a thought is not a voice unless you think I can't prove it.

 

However, Thomas Paine had an interesting hypothesis regarding thoughts in which he asserted that there were two distinct classes of what is called thoughts; one class being those thoughts that we produce in ourselves by reflection and the act of thinking and the other being those thoughts that bolt into the mind of their own accord.

 

Now anyone who is familiar with Thomas Paine would know that he rejected Christian theology at the time as unprincipled, yet where would a thought come from if it did not originate within one's own mind. Since he states bolts into the mind then my first thought was it must come from the LORD since he is the only external source from which would be plausible explanation whereby a thought that wasn't one own thought, since if it originated from one's own mind then how could it bolt into one's mind unless it came from outside.

 

Of course it is written in Isaiah 55:8, "For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD."

 

I really didn't grasp the validity of Thomas Paine teachings until I encounter a situation which I will let you decide for yourself.

 

After getting a permit from the City to building a storage building near the back property line of my residence, my neighbor behind my property began making comments that I didn't have any right to build the structure and that I better stop building cause he  was going make sure that I would have to tear it down.  Shortly thereafter, my next door neighbor dad [the lot on the other side is a vacant lot] whose son claim that he was the owner of the house,, approached me to discuss  the issue of our property lines [since the neighbor behind me had removed the survey stake] While initially saying that it didn't appear to be on his property a week later and after talking to the other neighbor begin saying that it was crossing his property line.

 

 And while I did move the position of the wall next to the property to my side just for the purpose of avoiding any controversy will my neighbor.  After moving it back three feet, and this wasn't a portable building, it only served to piss them off even more, which I believe was due to the fact that it only took a couple of hours to take down the section that the neighbor asserted extended over the property line and rebuild it back to the same stage as it was before.

 

So when the side neighbor approached me again claiming that it was still on his property I basically told him that if didn't want to disclose his property survey that he was claiming showed that I was on his property then he and the other neighbor telling him that I was building on his property could go F themselves, but I said in a nice way.  Which they promptly did when they went to City Hall and complained, one neighbor saying I didn't have a permit and the other saying I was building on his property.  (The City sent an inspector who upon completion of his inspection did in fact issue out a citation, but it was issued to the neighbor next door for the addition to his house he was building without a permit and the Health inspector was sent out later by the City who issued a citation to the neighbor for all the junk on his property.)   

 

But I had called my attorney regarding what I needed to do to squash the accusations that I was trying to steal my neighbor property by building over the property lines.  He advised me to save the expense and turn it over to the Title Insurance company who insured the deed to my property since it was their responsibility to defend any claims against the title deed to the property.  However, the Title insurer put my claim on ignore and not wanting to do any more to the building until I got confirmation from the insurer that the neighbors claims were unfounded, after 3 months I being pressuring them to resolve my claim.  At which point I receive an email from a legal assistant with the insurer which informed me that my claim had been reassigned to a different attorney. So great, I was now back to step one, but after  I spoke to the new attorney once, thereafter he simply ignored my messages over the next several  months to contact me, in addition to several letters from my personal attorney requesting the insurer's disposition of my claim, which were ignored too.

 

So frustrated and not knowing what to do, I figured that the insurer's claim attorney was not answering my calls was because his direct line had caller id, so I thought maybe if I called his legal assistant who sent the email then maybe I could get around the caller id, but I knew what was going to happen, she would answer and ask who was calling and then put me hold, buzz  the attorney who would tell her to tell me that he wasn't available and they would set up an office pool on how  long the sucker on the phone will wait on hold before realizing they weren't going to do anything regarding their claim and hang up.  Well, I had a bet with the LORD myself  which was that after putting me hold for a lengthy period that  she was going to say, "I'm sorry he is not available right now but can I take a message" .

 

But before I picked up the phone a thought came to my mind, "Google her";  I was like what the f, where did that come from, why in the hell would anyone think of googling the name of a legal assistant and for what purpose.  Then I remembered what Thomas Paine said about the two classes of thought, I knew that I wouldn't even think of googling a legal assistant

s name, since the thought did not involve hurting anyone or doing anything illegal, I decided to google her name.   

 

Well, I called the number and she answered, I asked to speak with the attorney to which she responded, "Let me check and see if he was in".  After about 10 will get you 20 minutes on hold, she comes back on the phone and tells me "I'm sorry he is not available right now but can I take a message for you."  So I tell her "No thanks, but could I ask you a question."  After saying it was ok, I asked her if she competed in the Miss America pageant as Miss Nebraska USA back in 2007.  She asked me how I knew that.  So I answered the best I could and said "I must have friend."  Then she said, "Hang on a second I see he is back in his office now so let me transfer your call."  I wish I could have seen his expression when he picked up the phone and heard 'Helllooo, this is Adam."

 

Well there is more to the story but I will conclude with the moral of this testimony, don't bet against the LORD cause He'll will win every time.  And to those who think this story is fabricated, all I got to say is "Helllooo neighbor"

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

Well, I called the number and she answered, I asked to speak with the attorney to which she responded, "Let me check and see if he was in".  After about 10 will get you 20 minutes on hold, she comes back on the phone and tells me "I'm sorry he is not available right now but can I take a message for you."  So I tell her "No thanks, but could I ask you a question."  After saying it was ok, I asked her if she competed in the Miss America pageant as Miss Nebraska USA back in 2007.  She asked me how I knew that.  So I answered the best I could and said "I must have friend."  Then she said, "Hang on a second I see he is back in his office now so let me transfer your call."  I wish I could have seen his expression when he picked up the phone and heard 'Helllooo, this is Adam."

 

Well there is more to the story but I will conclude with the moral of this testimony, don't bet against the LORD cause He'll will win every time.  And to those who think this story is fabricated, all I got to say is "Helllooo neighbor"

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And so, after this (rather long) account, is it your claim that God, not google, informed you that she competed in the Miss America pageant as Miss Nebraska in 2007?  Or is it your claim that God told you to consult google?

 

Because if it's the first claim, would you mind coming with me the next time I decide to go play craps in a casino? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Fact is that all humans have an internal voice.

Prove that since you are claiming that it is a fact.

 

 

What is your hangup with this voice thing?  If we said that human beings engage in internalized dialogue, or internalized sentences, or internalized conflicting thoughts, would you be equally hypercritical?

 

Is it the use of the word voice that's a problem for you?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

And so, after this (rather long) account, is it your claim that God, not google, informed you that she competed in the Miss America pageant as Miss Nebraska in 2007?  Or is it your claim that God told you to consult google?

 

Because if it's the first claim, would you mind coming with me the next time I decide to go play craps in a casino? 

 

 

 

Google is God.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Google that person... why don't I ever think of that?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

One day in church last year, the pastor said something to the effect that "since the devil doesn't know what you are thinking".....

I was shocked...what do you mean he doesn't know what I am thinking? If he doesn't know what I am thinking then WHO is telling me all that bad stuff in my head??? For example:

 

I think in my head " I really hate that nasty bitch so-and-so" and then I have the thought "Hey, that's really not nice, I shouldn't think that way" and then a few minutes later I start hearing in my mind "remember when she did this and when she did that." So if that's not the devil, then it's me thinking that way and if I think that way then I don't have the LOVE in my heart towards everyone and aren't I supposed to if I'm a Christian?

 

 

So I asked someone- "if the devil can't hear my thoughts, then how does he know how to put bad thoughts in my mind or how does he know what I am thinking when I feel like I'm battling him" (as in the above example) and their reply was , "well he is really smart and he can tell from your facial expressions and body language".

 

And that is when I was stopped in my tracks. WHAT THE HECK????? That has made little sense to me and it seems that this means that I am thinking these thoughts and no one is planting them in my head.

 

Any thoughts on how this proves anything? (I'm still vacillating between belief).

THANKS!

This shows again that thinking is highly dangerous to religion
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would find it laughable, the idea that the devil can read your mind and put thoughts into your head.

 

If I hadn't been there once. It's an awful feeling. Vulnerable. Under attack. Helpless.

 

Caught in a tug of war with powerful invisible forces.

 

With eternity at stake.

 

Not fun.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Fact is that all humans have an internal voice.

Prove that since you are claiming that it is a fact.

 

Now I would agree that all humans have thoughts but a thought is not a voice unless you think I can't prove it.

 

However, Thomas Paine had an interesting hypothesis regarding thoughts in which he asserted that there were two distinct classes of what is called thoughts; one class being those thoughts that we produce in ourselves by reflection and the act of thinking and the other being those thoughts that bolt into the mind of their own accord.

 

Now anyone who is familiar with Thomas Paine would know that he rejected Christian theology at the time as unprincipled, yet where would a thought come from if it did not originate within one's own mind. Since he states bolts into the mind then my first thought was it must come from the LORD since he is the only external source from which would be plausible explanation whereby a thought that wasn't one own thought, since if it originated from one's own mind then how could it bolt into one's mind unless it came from outside.

 

I don't necessarily agree with Paine that there are two "distinct classes" of "thoughts", it is important to note that our brain processes information on two different "levels" if you will. We have the conscious thoughts that are regularly running through our head, but then there is another "level" where information is being processed and worked through that we are completely unaware of. A simple example of this would be that your brain knows that you are wearing clothes right now. It receives and processes tons of sensory information from your skin letting it know that there is something on it. However, your brain has not brought this information to your conscious thoughts because it isn't really necessary. But it knows that there is sensory information from your skin. Now add all the other things into the equation such as your eyes and ears and nose. Your brain is processing millions of points of information without your knowledge and it is also making decisions for you that you are completely unaware of. It is thinking for you without your knowledge.

 

Sam Harris has made reference to multiple studies where researchers have been successfully able to determine what a persons answer will be on a choose one or the other experiments up to (I believe) 2 seconds before the person actually indicates their answer. Your brain makes decisions for you prior to your knowledge. I think it would also be safe to say that your brain thinks about stuff that you are unaware of and this would explain why random thoughts enter your conscious thoughts. Long story short, Sam Harris concluded that you are no more in control of your thoughts than of what the next words I am writing to you will be.

 

Onomatopoeia

 

Didn't see that word coming did you?

 

This whole thing gives serious discredit to the concept of free will. If you aren't in control of your own thoughts, how can you make informed and directed choices?

 

Something to think about. Or not...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi FreeThinker, thanks for answering that. I actually am on different meds from doctor and they help a lot with most every crazy obsession I come up with....but the not knowing about going to hell or not or if it's real or not is the one that drives me mad. In OCD therapy I've had to learn to live with uncertainty and train myself to think " ok maybe I did run over someone " (for example)-- I have to live with the risk" and that by not checking to make sure I defeat the obsession and the anxiety lessens. However, this does not work with the hell obsession because of the nature of the matter-- that living with the risk could mean eternal torment perhaps. Even all the meds I'm on can't quell this obsession or the accompanying anxiety once I start thinking about it.

I'm sorry to hear that the meds aren't enough to help with this obsession, but I am glad you are using them, because if you weren't, I think the obsessions would most likely be worse.  I think there is reason to have hope, that one day the obsession will be significantly reduced, or even absent.   Deconversion can take a long time of processing, thinking, and questioning.  Hang in there.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is an interesting idea and one I've thought about before as well.

 

Christians typically talk about temptation coming from three sources: Satan, the World, or your own sinful flesh. The Bible talks about Satan roaming around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour. The story of Job may be an example. He is a Liar, the Deceiver, the Tempter.

 

How does this idea of Satan controlling the world system, attacking believers, possessing some, and tempting others fit into the construct of Satan as a created being? Surely if he can do all that he would be omnipotent and omniscient, right? But only God has those characteristics. Theologians call them incommunicable attributes of God, that is, only God possesses them.

 

How can one finite, created being (Satan) be all over the planet getting into people's minds and tempting them to evil?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

How can one finite, created being (Satan) be all over the planet getting into people's minds and tempting them to evil?

The way we were taught is that it is basically a franchise system. You have your main baddie, Satan in charge of overall policy and strategy and he subcontracts to demons. They are the ones influencing you on a day to day operations level. The devil does deal with the tempting of important clients personally (Jesus, disciples, apostles, mega church pastors) and just for lulz will occasionally freelance some random Joe Schmoe.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Guidelines.