Trying To Save My Marriage - 1 Year Later

[Insightful]

Hi everyone,

 

I’m trying hard to hang onto my marriage – but it’s VERY difficult.  Before I give the latest update, let me recap my story first:

 

- I grew up in a Christian home, my parents were “saved” when I was 2-4 years old.  We went to charismatic churches early on (ages 4-8) as my parents were both “on fire”.  Then the fire cooled.  Eventually my family stopped attending when I was a teenager.  I still identified as “Christian”.  I was a good kid – no major rebellious phase, good at school, respectful. 

 

- In college, I started attending a campus fellowship group.  Through friends, I got introduced to Calvinism.  I became passionate about studying scripture, enjoying using my mind in worship and not just emotions (like when my family was charismatic).  Still though, I was soft on things like the age of the earth (I would have identified as Old Earth creationist).  As I studied, I had questions and doubts about things like the Trinity, but nothing strong enough for me to question the whole thing.

 

- In grad school, I met my now-wife.  She was much more fundamentalist than me.  A “high view” of scripture was very important to her – literal inerrancy, expository preaching.  Young earth creation for sure – because Young Earthers make science subservient to scripture, but Old Earthers make scripture subservient to science.  Although she liked me, she would not consider dating me if I held loose positions on inerrancy and the age of the earth.

 

- As my beliefs were not yet rigidly formed, I attended church with her where I was slowly but effectively indoctrinated – to the point where I agreed with her on pretty much everything theologically.  I tried very hard to not just believe to win the girl – but to believe with integrity, because I really thought it was true.  I bought into the entire fundamentalist perspective.

 

- We ended up getting married and stayed at that same church for 10.5 years.  Believing that being  godly leader was the most worthy thing to pursue, I led home groups, taught membership classes, taught pre-marital classes, led missions teams, started a compassion/adoption ministry, etc.  In my years of studying the Bible (hours per week), I came across many textual/logical problems that would mess me up in the head until I could find a way to rationalize them and stuff them.  We adopted 2 baby girls, now 9 and 7.

 

- Major problems started surfacing when we encountered the emotional and behavior challenges that abandonment/institutionalization/neglect created in our oldest daughter.  Because my mind was trained to be hostile to secular psychology, I approached parenting from a very tough authoritarian position.  Lots of intense spanking.  Rarely in anger, but still not what she needed.  Very little understanding and appreciation for her fears and trauma-influenced-behaviors.  I was convinced that all of her misbehavior was disobedience and sin.  She had a sinful nature by birth and my job was to confront that sin with spanking, pointing her to her need for a savior.  Our pastor had told us to “Break her will”.  Now I know that we were crushing her spirit.

 

- It took a few years – until my oldest was 4 ½ to realize how misguided my parenting had been.  I came to the sad conclusion that Christianity had actually set me up to be a WORSE parent than I would have been.  Oh the regrets I have.  Viewing her as sinful caused me to view her behaviors as HER fault, rather than the fault of all she’d been through at the orphanage.  Because the Bible taught me that “he who withholds the rod HATES his child” and the “rod will save his soul from Sheol”, I felt COMPELLED out of obedience to God to spank my daughter.  And for those who say the rod is just a shepherds guide, consider the psalm that says [about the rod] “though you beat (strike) him, he will not die.” 

 

- From there, all of my previous “scholarly” doubts came rushing back in combining forces with this newer emotional wound (of having harmed my daughter psychologically) and within a year or two, my faith had wasted away.

 

- Now I would identify as a humanist (to focus on what I DO believe) and an agnostic with respect to the existence of a god/gods.  As many of you have experienced, I actually LOVE LIFE so much more now than ever.  I’ve gotten over my grief about there probably not being a heaven / eternal life.  I’m excited to focus on THIS LIFE and all there is to do and experience.  I want to do right by my daughters and be the Dad my heart wants to be – not the dad that fear-based beliefs drove me to be.  I LOVE my career and my involvement in adoption/orphan care efforts.

 

For me, it should be a 100% happy ending.  And then there’s my marriage…

 

My wife is completely devastated by my loss of faith.  She has said on more than one occasion that she will “never be happy in our marriage”.  She is certain of this.  She is angry at me for choosing to read the books I read that assisted in my deconversion.  She blames my unbelief on my choices to dwell on my doubts.  She says she has long-term deep anger toward me for “dragging her through this”, “dragging our children through this” and the impact my unbelief will have on our family, friends, and community.  She anticipates and plans to be miserable for the rest of our marriage.  She has made it clear she is only staying with me for our 2 girls.

 

Most painfully, she has stated more than once that she does not and cannot have romantic/sexual feelings for me anymore because the things she is attracted to are “spiritual” and I no longer have those.  I told her that it feels like she is faulting me for believing what I believe.  She said, “oh, now you’re playing the martyr, huh?”  She agrees to intimacy, but cries before and afterward.  

 

It seems pretty obvious to me that it’s over.

 

We talked a little bit last night.  It was a peaceful conversation – most of ours are.  I told her, “it’s OK if it’s over”.  That’s a place I’m trying to get to in my mind.  Divorce doesn’t have to be the end of the world.  But it sure feels like it…   We talked about options.  To me, the best scenario would be for me to have primary custody of our older daughter and for my wife to have our younger daughter.  I know it’s most common to keep both kids together but they are incredibly difficult girls – both with intense behavioral challenges.  I just don’t see one person handling both of them successfully.  Further, I have a WAY better relationship with my oldest compared to my wife.  And vice versa with our youngest.  But my wife is not open to that.  I asked if she would fight me for our oldest – she said probably.

 

I don’t know what to do.

 

As difficult as things have been with my wife, I am more than willing to stay married to her – but I’m not OK with this whole “I can’t love you / desire you / respect you” because of my unbelief.  It’s just not fair.  I don’t think I could live like that.

 

I’ve tried so hard to be the husband she wants – I’m working on EVERYTHING that I can.  I go to every therapy session.  I try to say sorry when I’m wrong and ask what I can do to be a better husband to her.

 

I admit that I’ve not been the best husband – I have my faults.  As a Christian, I would put a lot of pressure on my wife to adopt more kids, give away more money, etc., and make her feel less godly when she would resist/have fears.  In my messed up worldview and in my own immaturity, there wasn’t space for her feelings and fears.  I also used to put pressure on her to spend less so we could give more…  But I own these now and accept responsibility.  I’ve changed completely in these areas.  Also, as a Christian husband, I used to expect her to go along with my leadership, whether she preferred my decisions or not, as long as I wasn’t asking her to sin or violate her conscience.  So for so long, she felt like she had no voice.  I’m working so hard to give her voice in our relationship.

 

The sad reality for me is that despite my efforts to do all that I can, according to her, it will never be enough to make her happy.

 

It’s over, right?

 

Part of me feels angry – like how could she be like this??  I asked her – don’t compassion, generosity, kindness, diligence, and faithfulness count for anything??  Because I am all of those things.  I know I am.  And she said that they are good things, but “meaningless” without faith in Christ.

 

I also feel sad for her though.  I still love her so much.  I see her as imprisoned by her fears.  After all, that’s what Christianity often does.  I think she has it all right now – seriously, a husband that earns over $300,000/year, a 7 bedroom house, vacations to the Carribbean, she gets to be a stay-at-home mom.  She has a husband who loves her, who is committed to her, who prioritizes family over everything else.  I even slowed down to working 4 days / week to help her with the challenges our daughters cause her.

We’re going to lose it all if we can work things out.  I asked her if she could CHOOSE to be happy – to make a choice to view our marriage positively.  She said, “I can’t change the things that are most important to me, so ‘no’”.

 

It frustrates me SO much that she cannot see me for who I am – all of the good in me.  She just sees my unbelief – the simple fact that I just don’t think the Bible is true – and finds me unattractive and undesirable.

 

The one thing we haven’t done is look at the MANY passages in the Bible that support my position – that the bible is a HUMAN book, that the gospel story was built on layers of added legends…  If she would just open her mind and take an honest critical look at her faith, we could make so much progress.  I’m leaning toward pressing for that discussion.  It’s a Hail Mary pass, I know. 

 

But what else can I do at this point?  (I mean that rhetorically and also seeking your advice)

 

Thanks for reading.

[Blindsighted]

I'm sorry you're going through this. I'm glad you've transitioned away from authoritarian parenting. My biggest regrets are about how I parented my older children because of buying into "sin nature."

 

One thing that I don't think Christians understand is that most of us don't chose to disbelieve. It just happens. So you might could try to explain that. Also trying to present facts about the Bible might be helpful. You may also try marriage counseling.

 

One thing I would recommend is no sex. If she's going to be crying before and after you may end up setting yourself up for assault allegations. If you want any custodial arrangements with you daughters, then don't even give her ammunition against you.

 

Best of luck. I hope things work out.

[amateur]

Wow.  That's a dilemma.

 

Since she's committed to staying in the marriage no matter what, that should give you time to work on some alternatives.  It's not like she's demanding you leave tomorrow and has already hired a lawyer.  You have time to keep going to therapy for her, to keep loving your daughters every day, and to keep suggesting things to her that might make things bearable for you (she's on her own to come up with things to make life bearable for her, but she has time for that too).  

 

Is there a way for you to secretly have a sexual relationship on the side?  I'm actually not joking; is that a possibility for you, either something you could mentally want to do, or physically be able to carry off without your family knowing?  If that's a horrible idea to you, just ignore it.  If it's a doable idea, at least you'd have some time of relaxation, especially if you could keep from discussing your wife and problems with the other woman.  Maybe after another five-ten years of living in a passionless relationship, you might change your mind.

 

Realistically, you were the one who changed in the marriage.  You both entered the marriage as strongly-believing xians, and were raising your kids that way.  She hasn't changed, and is even willing to stay married because of her religious ideals.  Not that you should apologize for changing, but acknowledging that it was you that changed (not a bad thing, just a life thing) even just to yourself, might give you some sympathy for her plight.  If the roles were reversed and you felt as she did, what would you want from her?  Try to think of it from that angle and see if anything pans out for you.

 

Is there a way you could stay married but move out, or stay in the house but live a separate life (except for the kids)?  I'm serious here.  Just a thought.  I've known two couples that stay married, one because of health insurance reasons (one had insurance through work and they both needed it) and the other because they couldn't afford to split everything 50/50 as CA law dictates and still live comfortably.  So each couple stays married but live as though single, dating and all, not always living together but sometimes in the same house for financial reasons.

 

Is there a way you could move very close to her so you could still see the kids all the time?  For example, when my ex-husband and I divorced, we shared the house for four years after because we both wanted to be with the kids every day, and wanted the other to see the kids every day, too.  When it got too confusing and I needed some privacy, I bought a house three minutes away from my ex, and that worked out well for the rest of the kids' high school years.  I spent every evening after work down at the family house, then by 9 or 9:30, I'd either go out on a date or go to my own house for the night.  It was a reasonable arrangement with privacy for me, and we did both enjoy being with the kids.  You wouldn't have to be divorced to move next door.

 

The one thing you DO have is time to think of alternatives to suffering together forever or having a traditional divorce where she'll probably end up with custody of the kids.  Since she's very religious, she might not like such liberal ideas, but with time, maybe it'll calm her down.  

 

Good luck with whatever ideas you have, sincerely, you have a difficult situation.

[RenaissanceWoman]

Wow, that's rough. I remember reading your story about a year ago, and I'm sad to hear how it has developed. You seem like an amazing person, having come through all of that with wisdom and compassion.

 

There is of course, his side, her side, and then there's the truth. But based on what you have presented, I would say your wife needs to get a grip. OK, maybe you're not perfect, but you seem to me to be reasonable.

 

I find her drama before and after sex to be quite manipulative and mean. I get really annoyed when women use sex as a tool or a weapon. Maybe that's not exactly what she's doing, but it's just not right.

 

I'm sorry I don't have any advice for you. All I can offer is moral support. I hope that's better than nothing.

[dichotomy]

This is all very heartbreaking and sad. I wish there were words of wisdom and answers to your difficulties, but I suspect that there is no simple or easy way forward for you in this situation. 

 

Even though I have been the wife who's husband became an atheist, (about 2 years prior to me) I am struggling to sympathise with her. When my husband announced his loss of faith my biggest worry was "how will we get through this together" and "will I lose him". I was angry that he changed the ball game, sure, and I felt a little betrayed and like my entire world had shattered, but that lasted for a couple of months at most, and I never told him such hurtful things. Her worldview seems very warped, even more extreme than the fundy stuff I was in. It must be very hard for you.

 

Part of me thinks that you should just tell her it's over, and look into your options legally, but part of me thinks you could keep at it, if you are in love with her and want to make it work, it's worth a shot for a while longer at least. Unless you feel it is damaging your children ever more?

 

Practically speaking, if you live in such a large house, you could live separately, but remain married legally and care for your children together, whilst also having your own separate living spaces and bedrooms, maybe even bathrooms and kitchens if its really big? 

 

I guess that'd be confusing for the children but it may be better than how things are "now".

[Insightful]

Thank you all for the heartfelt replies and helpful thoughts.  The moral support alone counts for much!

 

Amateur - thank you so much.  I greatly appreciate your tender concern and thoughtful suggestions.  They are all appreciated!

[Insightful]

Thanks, dichotomy.  It's helpful hearing your experience!

[Margee]

Thank you all for the heartfelt replies and helpful thoughts.  The moral support alone counts for much!

 

Amateur - thank you so much.  I greatly appreciate your tender concern and thoughtful suggestions.  They are all appreciated!

 

Insightful, I just wanted to give you a big hug tonight because this is such a heartbreaking story. Everyone has given you such wonderful suggestions. I can't say much more.

 

I would say that 'time' itself will give you your answer. Don't 'jump the gun' for sure. Stay as peaceful, loving and kind as you can. Your answer will be revealed to you as you observe your life now and the changes that have happened in your marriage. In the next little while, become completely aware of how you are feeling. Can you live like this? Could you live with yourself  if you decided to have a secret affair and stay in the marriage? Could you remain in a sexless marriage? Could you do all the things that your wife wants you to do and be genuinely happy?  Will you resent her for trying to meet her demands? These are going to be all the hard questions you alone can answer. Again, I feel that time itself (in the next few days, weeks, months) will give you your answer. Don't do anything radical right now unless you feel that that would be the solution. If you feel that some separation would be helpful to both of you, maybe you might consider that until everyone gets their heads wrapped around how things have changed? Be rigorously honest with yourself about all the things you need to consider to have a happy life.

 

Best wishes for you, for some kind of a positive outcome to this heartbreaking reality. Keep us posted on how it's going?

 

(hug)

[Insightful]

Thanks Margee!  I was hoping you'd reply.  You always bring warmth and positive energy with your comments =)  It's felt and appreciated.

[Margee]

Thanks Margee!  I was hoping you'd reply.  You always bring warmth and positive energy with your comments =)  It's felt and appreciated.

Good luck sweetie! We are all cheering you on!

 

Relationships can be hard at the best of times but these ones cursed by religion are even more 'special'.........

 

Another ((hug))

[mymistake]

That is tough.  I'm not there but from the way you describe it that sounds like your marriage is dead and never coming back.  Maybe if your wife lost her faith you would have a chance but don't count on that happening.  It might take 30 years or it might never happen.  I would find a good divorce lawyer and ask him or her what is it going to take to get custody of your eldest knowing that your wide will contest.  Your lawyer might know what kind of a chance you have.

 

I am so sorry to hear about all this.  So sad.

[♦ ficino ♦]

How very sad. I too remember your talking about this, disillusioned.

 

I second what BurnedOut said. Adding: from what I've been told, don't move out. If you do you may make it easier for her to take the house.

[Aiyana]

I'm going to assume that you are still young. You have a lot of years left in which you could be with someone who loves you.

[Aiyana]

Sorry for how abrupt that was, I got distracted.

 

I've been in your spot. Not with a religion addict, but with a drug addict. 

 

"Unequally yoked" marriages are rough, even if the remaining Christian spouse is a "typical" Christian. It sounds like your wife is much, much more than that. I know this is blunt, but I do not see it getting better. I am terribly sorry for the pain that this is causing you. There is a woman out there who will accept you and love you for who you are, and even if you change.

 

I'm the nonbelieving spouse in my (current) marriage. My husband still believes, but if he ever told me he couldn't sleep with me because my faith has died, I would be absolutely devastated. It is abusive, the way she is treating you. Even the Bible says that the believing spouse is to stay with the unbeliever, for who knows but they might win them to Christ? Your wife is not even following Biblical principles.

 

She's had a year to adjust to this. I'm sorry, but the words "I can't sleep with you" are identical to saying "the marriage is over". You deserve better.

[Leo]

Insightful, you have my most profound sympathies. Better minds than mine have advised you, but I also am in an interfaith marriage. I have the good fortune of my daughter being grown, and I was not given the test you were at the beginning of your relationship, where she wanted to vet your beliefs first. It sounds like she had a role for you to play and what she loves is the role, not the person.

I'm so sorry for your situation, and hope you can at least keep your older daughter. I too have regrets about my own daughter, different from yours, but regrets are regrets. Mine are of the passive variety allowing others to dictate things that deep down I knew was wrong.

I'm just so sorry for your loss here, and hope you can find the best outcome for you and your kids.

[FreeThinkerNZ]

I agree with everything said above. My heart goes out to you, and I think you are one of the most amazing, strong, compassionate people I have come across on this site.

 

I agree there is no hope of an equal, mature, respectful relationship unless she deconverts, and she might not ever do that.  She's one of the more extreme fundies I've read about.  I recommend not having sex with her again... it's just not worth the pain of upsetting her or maybe even getting accused of assault.  Because her religious delusion is so strong, she is just not able to treat you with the respect and care we all deserve from a spouse.

 

IMO you need legal advice soon, regardless of what you end up doing.  You need to have the best chance of getting custody of your elder daughter, and possibly your younger one too.  What if she remarries a guy who will be too strict with your younger daughter?   If you win custody of both, you can afford all the professional help needed to care for them.  Getting a psychological assessment of them both will help.  That way you can show what sort of care they need, and how extreme fundamentalism is bad for them.  I know it's not easy to convince a US judge of something like this, but it's worth a try.

 

Get a couple of legal opinions from very good family lawyers.  Definitely do not move out unless you have legal custody arrangements made.  Child custody is the most important thing - money only matters to the extent that it allows you to care for them.  Living in a small but comfortable home knowing your children are safe and well would be so much better than having lots of money but knowing they are suffering.  

 

I know of a divorced couple who have a good arrangement for their child.  They live close to each other, and the girl lives with her dad, but her mum has her during the day, most days of the week, and every second weekend.  So she has stability, and gets to see a lot of both parents.  There are many ways to do it.  Lawyers and psychologists can help you consider a range of options to seek.

[RenaissanceWoman]

OK, I didn't want to be too mean about how your wife is treating you, but others have stepped up, so I feel a little better to say a little more.

 

I have an atheist friend with a fundy wife. I mentioned your story vaguely to him, to see what he thought. He admitted that he and his wife have had sex three times in the past eleven years. WHAT?

 

He is the sole provider in the home, with two kids (almost finished with college now, but still living at home). His friends tell him that he has every right to "get it somewhere else", but he is honestly afraid that if she finds out he is having an affair, he will be at fault and she can take him for all he's worth. So he suffers in silence.

 

He has all sorts of odd health problems creeping up (immune system issues, muscular-skeletal issues, prostate problems), all of which I believe are stress-induced. He gets no love, affection, or appreciation for his very existence. This situation is literally killing him. And his soul is suffering. And his self esteem. It's a bad situation.

 

He did see an attorney in the past year or so. The attorney assures him that the judge will throw the book at his wife for "alienation of affection" or "constructive abandonment" -- which are grounds for divorce. (I guess there is such a thing as "wifely duties" on a legal level -- but your attorney will be best to advise you on that.) While my friend relishes the idea of a judge telling her how wrong and evil she is, he still loves her and does not want to humiliate her and crush her soul. Ugh. You guys are too nice!

 

Sounds like it's time for you to get some legal counsel. Find out your rights. Be proactive. Protect the kids. Safeguard your emotional and physical well-being. You may be in a better position than you think, with this alienation of affections angle.

 

I know it's easy for us to sit back and say, "Get a lawyer! Screw her!" But you are living it, and you still love her, and it's much more complicated. I'm sorry you are in this position. Keep us posted if it helps you.

 

Good luck. I hope you find solutions soon.

[dichotomy]

I just wanted to add, having thought about this a little more, that you must remember that you have not done anything wrong. I realise that you will know this, but sometimes in these situations where a spouse is being exceptionally difficult and emotionally manipulative, which certainly seems to be going on here, we can start to blame ourselves and take on that guilt. 

 

Losing your faith is not grounds for her behaviour, it just isn't. You have done nothing wrong. She may not like it, it may change the dynamic of your relationship, but were *she* willing to be mature and accepting and work at things, you could at the very least, be living a more amicable and healthy life, even if your relationship were different from now on. It is her choice and her doing that is making your lives challenging and difficult, and it is sad, because it doesn't need to be that way. She should love and respect and enjoy you for who you are, not your faith status.

 

Obviously worldview, opinions, values and beliefs do impact our relationships with people, and it can be difficult to be with someone who thinks so very differently from yourself, but it sounds like she is seriously pushing that to the extreme and she is not treating you properly.

 

I agree with others that you should make some decision preparation.

 

When things were very difficult with my husband (nothing to do with our faith or loss of) I mentally, emotionally and somewhat practically prepared myself for three different outcomes. I had an action plan for leaving him, what I would do practically, how I'd go about it, how it would impact the children, I spoke to and made arrangements with my family. I didn't seek legal advice as it wasn't relevant, but in your case I think you should. And I also paid for therapy, and talked over clearly all my different options.

 

I think you should do something similar. At the very least it will bring you clarity.

 

Much love x

[RenaissanceWoman]

It sounds like she had a role for you to play and what she loves is the role, not the person.

 

Wow, I think you're on to something here. That is just awful.

 

Insightful, we like you as the person!

[Leo]

Insightful I think it bears some consideration what the church trots out as stereotypes about the unbelieving husband. This is in no way an excuse for your wife's behavior or a reason for you to put up with things.

Now I'm speaking as a man here, fully cognizant that the tropes trotted out when women leave the faith are probably somewhat different, certainly similar in some ways, but just as one man to another in an inter-faith marriage.

Remember when you were in, how a lady would come to the church by herself, and everyone would swoop around her like as though she'd been a victim of an air raid? Perhaps you may have been assigned to bring in the wayward husband, perhaps not, but you probably heard about them. Something that always struck me, even as a Christian (though I was never the powerhouse or leader some on here were, just a member of the masses): The stark difference between the stories told about these nonbelieving husbands, and what you learned when you got to know these guys. I had the very bad habit of sympathizing with the unbelieving spouses, being their friend just for friendship's sake. I could get away with it, of course, since I was not a leader. While my Wife was, and so my actions could come under scrutiny or "cause concern" I would venture a guess if you're in leadership you couldn't get that close.

I guess what I'm saying is, it's really sad: She's being reinforced at church, because those people at church need a story. A story of reconciliation. They need for you to come home, crawl around and self-efface, the more disgustingly effacing you are the better, tell everyone how wrong you were. It's a tough pill to swallow, but they don't love you. They love the magic show.

I've had nowhere near the challenges you are having, though I think I'd have had it far worse were we still living in Florida and the daughter still small. But even as I am, where things are relatively amicable in this department, I know She's uncomfortable with where I am. I'm not playing to the stereotype of the angry oppressive husband keeping his poor wife away from church or discussing god-related things at home. Far from it; I've read Dale McGowan's book "In faith and In Doubt" and taken it to heart, as it certainly sounds like you have whether you got the book or not.

I thought I could defeat the trope by just being myself, being different, not participating in that sort of behavior. But that damned trope is there nonetheless and I have been "out" since April, 2014. It serves a purpose, though it does not serve your wife or mine. It's a tool for control, and I've yet to figure out what to do about it personally.

Admittedly I'm waiting for the day when some Christian source ceases to be dishonest about interfaith relationships, stops lying to our wives about us. Probably that day will never come, but my reason is our collective spouses would probably at least listen to a Christian who could communicate this to them.

After all, any foundation worth having need not be propped up by lies.

I think as husbands we have to live for now with the notion that the lie is greater than the triuth about us, at least in the Christian's mind.

 

That isn't to say there aren't cases where the stereotype may play out. My Wife has a relative who married someone who "prevented" her from expressing her faith in their house. Of course, they're of an older generation, she in her 80s now. And honestly even when I was Christian, my mind stopped at the "Prevented from expressing" part and never made it to the faith part of that story. To me that is uniquely and unnecessarily cruel, and I cannot imagine enacting that kind of suppression, about a spouse's faith or anything else.

Ironically, all too often it's the Christian who suppresses, and later imagines that we are, or someday will, suppressing them. You mentioned "banned" or contraband books, and I hear you. I have the good fortune of being totally blind, so anything I read was in Braille most of the time. So I think a lot probably unintentionally slipped by without getting noticed.

I hope, for your sake, that your wife for whatever reason switches churches. I think that has probably benefitted the both of us in our relationship, in that there is no history at the new place.

But sadly, it's the most fervent, the most fundamentalist, tiresome and angry places who typically have the most complete programs for kids, which is something parents are going to consider.

 

Your story breaks my heart, but it makes me appreciate what I do have.

I do get angry about the lies propagated about us. But I try to remember they're lying to our wives and kids. We have not done as the New Testament says the apostates will do, and further, from reading your posts, it sounds like you and I both have not lived out the religious leaders' sick fantasies about an oppressive angry male spouse, who suppresses the poor wife's religious expression, so that these same leaders and their group can rush in and rescue her.

 

Every story needs a villain, and tag, we're it. But if they actually had the truth in their claims, it would be very much beneath them to need to lie about us. Bald-faced, bold, open lies. I can very much appreciate on the night I told my Wife of my nonbelief, when She said that She didn't want to be "one of those women" who went to church and her husband didn't. Nobody wants to be pitied like a storybook prop to be rescued.

 

As hard as it is to remember, those people do not love your Wife when they engage in this trope-baiting. They love the idea of being part of a script, a story of redemption, where they help save the poor woman from the distress brought on by a wayward now-heathen husband. And yes, they won't be above lying about you. I, a younger fool, sat by when men lied about nonbelieving spouses whose characters were far better than the portrayals of them in the churches.

Doesn't mean we don't have our faults: I've got enough to go around in case anyone's in need of a few extra or too good for the rest of us. But I think the megalomaniacal tyrant of a nonbelieving husband, as trotted out by supposed holders of truth, is pretty far from just being normally flawed.

 

You've made me think, which is a good thing. And you've made me just a bit more appreciative in my situation, which is probably a better thing. Far better than the rote recitations of gratitude and praise characteristic of my Christian days.

[dichotomy]

Remember when you were in, how a lady would come to the church by herself, and everyone would swoop around her like as though she'd been a victim of an air raid? Perhaps you may have been assigned to bring in the wayward husband, perhaps not, but you probably heard about them. Something that always struck me, even as a Christian (though I was never the powerhouse or leader some on here were, just a member of the masses): The stark difference between the stories told about these nonbelieving husbands, and what you learned when you got to know these guys. I had the very bad habit of sympathizing with the unbelieving spouses, being their friend just for friendship's sake. I could get away with it, of course, since I was not a leader. While my Wife was, and so my actions could come under scrutiny or "cause concern" I would venture a guess if you're in leadership you couldn't get that close.

I guess what I'm saying is, it's really sad: She's being reinforced at church, because those people at church need a story. A story of reconciliation. They need for you to come home, crawl around and self-efface, the more disgustingly effacing you are the better, tell everyone how wrong you were. It's a tough pill to swallow, but they don't love you. They love the magic show.

 

 

I think this is a good point. 

 

I remember when my husband lost his faith I was *very* aware that this was how I'd be viewed. I didn't want to be the "poor wife" with the "backslidden husband" and everyone gathering around me "in prayer and support" whilst also pitying me and talking about me behind my back.

 

The way I dealt with it was to think sod em, and never go to church again. But it wasn't easy, and I was on a different path to your wife insightful, if church and the christian community matters to her, this will all be very hard for her to deal with, and she'll be being fed lies and views and her beliefs reinforced.

[RenaissanceWoman]

Wow, Leo, such an interesting angle. Thanks for sharing that!

 

So maybe Insightful could encourage his wife to switch churches, start fresh. Probably won't happen, but I think it may help, as you suggest. Get her out of the victim rut she doesn't even know she's in. Scary.

[Insightful]

Wow - I'm blown away by all of the love and support - seriously, guys, this is incredible.

THANK YOU.

 

Thank you Leo, Aiyana, FreeThinkerNZ, Renaissance Woman, Dichotomy.

 

I hope to sit down soon and reply to each of you individually.  For now, please know that your suggestions, experiences, affirmations, and support are all of immense value!

 

Leo: Something I found to be ironic:  you are blind and I am an eye doctor, but you are the one helping me to see things clearly. =) 

 

I will update soon.

 

Much love,

Insightful

[Insightful]

I'm trying hard right now to fight for this marriage.  The emotional pain is intense. 

 

My question for you all:

 

I recently asked my wife if she could try to be encouraging - to say affirming things, to be more appreciative of me as a person.  She said that she cannot affirm anything about me completely because my unbelief taints all of my actions.

 

What I wonder - and I'd love your feedback - is if AFFIRMING ME is actually frightening for her because that would mean admitting that there can be goodness apart from religious belief?  Essentially, to affirm me - and to allow me close to her emotionally - both of those steps would mean making herself vulnerable to questioning her faith.  Does this make sense?  In other words, if she were to view me positively and allow herself to have warm feelings again toward me, she would have to be sympathetic to my unbelief - and that is not a place she wants to go.

 

Her feelings toward me seem irrational - she can be fun and funny and happy with me, like all is good.  But when it comes to intimacy, love, and encouragement - she is so distant.  The irrationality of it makes me suspect that fear is underlying it all.

 

I'm walking around every day with this anxious feeling in the pit of my stomach - in constant pain from the muscle tension the stress is causing....

 

I feel like I must choose between

 

1) staying and seeing my personal happiness die

2) leaving and seeing the death of my family.

 

It realy stinks.

 

I know it's not really as extreme as that - that's just how it feels a lot of the time.  I know there are ways to stay and find happiness elsewhere or leave and still  love my kiddos.  It's just messy and ugly.... and it hurts!

[amateur]

Wow, I think you hit on something when you say that affirming you would be frightening for her because it would admit there can be goodness apart from religious belief.  I understand what you're saying there, and not knowing her at all or you beyond these posts, I think that your gut feeling is right.

 

I'm not saying this would help or cure anything, but it's just an idea I'm throwing out:  have you been affirming her with anything she's doing?  Does she do a good job in any special way with your daughters, especially with the difficult situations?  Are you appreciative that she is willing to stay married to you, in spite of your apostasy, and regardless of the fact that emotionally and sexually she is being cruel?  Are you appreciative that because of her attitude towards marriage (sucky as her emotional attitude is) you are able to still see your kids every day and be a part of their lives?  When she is having a fun, funny and happy moment with you, can you blurt out, "I love seeing you having fun . . . being happy . . . laughing! . . . etc."?

 

Do you think it would be helpful or hurtful to tell her about your gut feeling?  Not to attack her and her beliefs, but to say, "I understand that you don't want to affirm me at all because to do so would be to admit that there can be goodness apart from religious belief."  Keep to "I" statements.  Do you think saying that to her would be a good move or might result in more anger?  Or maybe she'll just be angry until she has time to process it.

 

Good luck and I'm so sorry about how stressful it all is.  It does sound horrible.