Insightful Posted January 7, 2016 Author Share Posted January 7, 2016 Your issue is how to break through the barriers of prejudice to a probably very frightened woman who is seeing her whole world in danger of collapsing. Spot on, Ellinas. I think she is quite frightened. And thank you Deidre - your thoughts (and prayers =)) are appreciated. So here's the latest: It's not looking good. Since I finished my defense of what I believe 3 days ago, my wife has had a devastated look on her face. She looks so depressed and miserable most of time. We talked a bit last night and she is still stuck in the same place: no matter how positive the rest of our relationship is, according to her, "Without faith in common, we cannot have 'relational connectedness'". She said that she "cannot like or respect a non-believer" - she simply can't. She says it's not volitional. She said "because you [insightful] are 'not safe', I cannot be my true self around you and I have not been for the last 18 months. Without being free to be my true self, we cannot have relational connectedness." Yet she affirms her willingness to stay. But it doesn't sound good to me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 You can give her time to see if she warms up to you. However you deserve better than this. You don't deserve to be treated this way. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dichotomy Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 What a sad situation for both of you. I think it's really devastating that her faith and mindset has affected her to such a degree. But it is still fairly early days since your conversation, so she could just need longer to process and think. More hugs for you Insightful. x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amateur Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 I'm so sorry to hear this, insightful. My sincere best wishes for the situation for both of you and your children. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Margee Posted January 7, 2016 Moderator Share Posted January 7, 2016 Hang in there buddy. Time will give you your answer. We`re here for you. (hug) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RenaissanceWoman Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 Thanks for the update, Insightful. I am weirdly interested in your story, so I appreciate you sharing with us. You have rocked her to her core, and that is going to take some time to sink in. My neighbors and I are in a bit of a battle with a trashy neighbor on my street. We initiated legal action, but the lawyer warned us that it could backfire: "This guy is not going to give in, he will only dig in." You know your wife and have to honestly ask yourself which of these she will do -- give in / accept it and find peace, or dig in and make you even more miserable. The friend I mentioned on the first page (sex three times in 11 years with his fundy wife), has been dealing with this for the 18 years I have known him. I'm just saying... I don't have high hopes based on his experience. Hope for and work for the best. But realize it may turn out for the worst, and prepare yourself emotionally (and legally) for that too. I'm still holding out hope for you. You are honestly trying, and your open communication with her is laudable. I feel your pain and wish there were something I could do to ease that. Maybe just knowing that others care will be enough to give to you strength until your answers become clear. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 "Without being free to be my true self, we cannot have relational connectedness." Yet she affirms her willingness to stay. Dear wife, if we are not having relational connectedness, what is it then, that we are now having? Does Jesus want you to stay with a non-believer? "She said "because you [insightful] are 'not safe', I cannot be my true self around you and I have not been for the last 18 months." Safe enough to co-habitate. But not 'safe' enough to give affection. One contradicts the other. "She said that she "cannot like or respect a non-believer" - she simply can't. She says it's not volitional." That's sad and kind of says it all, right there. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offtheromanroad Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 Dear Insightful, Thank you for keeping us posted. I aplaud you on your courage to share your reasons for deconverting with your wife. This, I am sure, was by no means easy. I think it's good you are being honest with her. This might also show her that you're not hiding anything mysterious from her, and that your decision to leave faith behind was not a light hearted one. However, it might also frighten her. Anyway, I would like to second what others have already said -- you need to realize that the things she is telling you right now are not to be taken light heartedly either: She is telling you she can neither like nor respect a nonbeliever. This basically means the relationship is over for her (if I may interpret). Of course she is "willing to stay": Her religion AKA her version/her church's (spelling?) version of the Bible probably tell her to do so. In my opinion, she either still loves you and can't admit/wrap her head around the fact that you are not a totally different person because her faith tells her otherwise, OR she doesn't even love you anymore and just stays with you because her religion doesn't allow for a separation/divorce. Maybe a good idea would be to ask her quite frankly what the situation is -- does she still love you but thinks she can't love you anymore/is not "allowed" to because of her religion, or doesn't she, but thinks she is forced to stay with you because of her religion? Or does she force herself to keep "loving you" because her version of the Bible tells her so? If so, would this be real love? I hope I do make sense, I realize that this sounds a bit twisted (but then it also is, becaue some churches/versions of Xianity are so twisted). Long story cut short: You still love her, but the question is: Is this feeling reciprocal? If she does, she needs to break free from those parts of her religion that tell her she can't be with a nonbeliever, otherwise you'll both be miserable. If she doesn't, you need to break free from her, because 1) you'll both be miserable, and 2) you shouldn't stay with someone who does neither respect nor love you, but think they have to stay with you for the sake of religion. The problem is that her breaking free from her current view of a relationship with a nonbeliever might take a lot of time or might never happen. Maybe you need to ask yourself (but I am sure you already have) how the past 18 months have been going and whether there is real hope for change -- and how much longer you'll be able to wait for things to change. As RenaissanceWoman says: Please be prepared! All the best and a hug OTRR Edited for spelling/grammar 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellinas Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 I suspect part of the problem here is actually a form of the much mentioned (on this site at least) "cognitive dissonance". She knows what she has been taught. She knows what she actually feels. The two don't match up. At present she's taking refuge in the relative certainty of affirming the lifelong prejudice that's been pumped into her. She has no idea what else to do. I return to the thought that there is something here worth fighting for - otherwise she would not have stayed thus far or be willing to continue, Maybe - and this is just a thought rather than advice - the time now is to lay off the discussion and to try to find a way of showing her what she has got (what does she enjoy? What makes her laugh? Try and share some such experiences with her to convince her that the relationship can have "connectedness" (whatever that means). In saying that you are not safe, is she saying that you are "a danger", that you are "in danger", or both? If the first, treat her and show her that you are as harmless and even as beneficial to her now as you were previously. To the extent that the second is in view, the same applies - she needs to see that nothing has changed in terms of your feelings for her and to come to terms with the idea that you are not suddenly in mortal danger just because her doctrines say so. That is, however, likely to prove the more intractable of the two issues. All the best. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deidre Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 Your issue is how to break through the barriers of prejudice to a probably very frightened woman who is seeing her whole world in danger of collapsing. Spot on, Ellinas. I think she is quite frightened. And thank you Deidre - your thoughts (and prayers =)) are appreciated. So here's the latest: It's not looking good. Since I finished my defense of what I believe 3 days ago, my wife has had a devastated look on her face. She looks so depressed and miserable most of time. We talked a bit last night and she is still stuck in the same place: no matter how positive the rest of our relationship is, according to her, "Without faith in common, we cannot have 'relational connectedness'". She said that she "cannot like or respect a non-believer" - she simply can't. She says it's not volitional. She said "because you [insightful] are 'not safe', I cannot be my true self around you and I have not been for the last 18 months. Without being free to be my true self, we cannot have relational connectedness." Yet she affirms her willingness to stay. But it doesn't sound good to me... Is this basically 'code' for...'I won't have sex with you unless you come back to faith?' 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milesaway Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 I'm sorry she's acting like this towards you. She should be so ashamed of herself! Whatever you decide to do from this point moving forward, we've got your back. Her actions are inexcusable, and nothing gives her the right to hold you hostage emotionally. I'd be willing to bet she was like this long before you ever found each other, because people seldom just do this kind of thing out of nowhere. She has a damn good guy on her hands, and still she finds something to say about it. That's on her, not you. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aiyana Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 I'm sorry she's acting like this towards you. She should be so ashamed of herself! Whatever you decide to do from this point moving forward, we've got your back. Her actions are inexcusable, and nothing gives her the right to hold you hostage emotionally. I'd be willing to bet she was like this long before you ever found each other, because people seldom just do this kind of thing out of nowhere. She has a damn good guy on her hands, and still she finds something to say about it. That's on her, not you. ^ALL OF THIS. I can't help but think of Maris's character from Frasier. But there was a Daphne out there for him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offtheromanroad Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 How are you, insightful? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
readyforchange Posted January 24, 2016 Share Posted January 24, 2016 ... She said that she "cannot like or respect a non-believer" - she simply can't. ... It may be worthwhile to ask her how she feels about people of different religions - can she respect Orthodox Jews, Buddhists, Muslims, Hindus, Sikhs, etc., even though her Christian faith might disagree with what these people believe? Can she respect their perspective and how/why they believe what they do? Or give some examples of non-believers (famous or otherwise) who seem to be good people and exhibit characteristics she might associate with Jesus followers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deidre Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 I'm sorry she's acting like this towards you. She should be so ashamed of herself! Whatever you decide to do from this point moving forward, we've got your back. Her actions are inexcusable, and nothing gives her the right to hold you hostage emotionally. I'd be willing to bet she was like this long before you ever found each other, because people seldom just do this kind of thing out of nowhere. She has a damn good guy on her hands, and still she finds something to say about it. That's on her, not you. so much this!! At the end of the day though, we teach people how to treat us. If you continue to tolerate someone treating you sub par, then you will continue to be treated sub par. Tough decision, but hope you are doing better in any event, OP. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dichotomy Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 Been thinking of you insightful and really hope you're okay. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenW Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 Hi Insightful, I have been reading your story with great interest. I just saw your story today, and I hope that things are going well with you. In any case, I have a few thoughts that I’d like to share with you. One thing that I would strongly recommend is that you put aside the whole thought of trying to prove that Christianity is false. It really doesn’t matter, no it doesn’t. It’s how you act towards her that matters. If you win this argument you may possibly lose the war, and possibly lose your wife, if you have not already done so. As an example, I have never seen logic or “best argument” win against my wife. But I have seen having a kind consistently loving and approving attitude prevail again and again. Now, why do I say these things? What is my basis for telling you this? I would like to tell you the story of my marriage. I am 65 years old and have been married for 26 years to the same woman. We have a very special relationship that I think very few marriages have. But it did not come easy. I was raised in an abusive and “Christian” home. I never learned how to truly love anyone. In fact, when people at church or anywhere hugged each other, it sent shudders up me. I couldn’t take it, I had to leave. After I got marriage it took me some time to learn what love is. Early in our marriage I was very selfish and self-centered. Although I that that I loved my wife (as best as I knew how) I mainly thought about my own needs and desires. I’d get mad at her whenever she said no to my sexual advances. I just roll over in bed and move away from her. It was only some years later that I discovered that she was in constant pain from the abuse earlier in her life. She had said no because of the pain, and while she was in pain needing my loving acceptance, I turned away from her in my anger. I cringe now as I think back to how self-centered and uncaring I was to my wife. I also made some bad choices, committed a crime which violated my wife’s trust in me and brought disaster, much pain, and a great deal of sorrow to my family. I was separated from my wife and baby daughter for about 15 months. Along with this, it seemed that it would be a loooong before my wife would want to have sex with me, if ever. I had severely betrayed her trust. I went through months of great blackness and sorrow where I almost despaired of life itself. I felt like everything that I cared about was being ripped away from me. One good thing that happened while we were separated is that the authorities provide child care so that my wife and I could spend some time together. I don’t really know how it happened, but during this time when it seemed like my life was falling apart, something within me started to see how much my wife was hurting and suffering because of what I had done. My heart began to warm towards her. Since I knew that sex was out of the question, I began to just hold her, caress her, and massage her, with no ulterior motives. I just wanted to comfort her in her pain. That was a huge turning point in our marriage. I was no longer thinking only of myself, but instead, I was focusing on the needs of my wife. During this time I was convicted, and put on 10 years of probation, counseling, and countless polygraphs. This whole time was a very traumatic time for me, not to mention the affect it had on my wife. My counselor was like a father to me. He taught me much about how to live a responsible and compassionate life. During this time I learned to treat my wife better and to live an honorable and obedient life. I lost my fear of the authorities. One of the big lessons that I learned (as a result of taking about 25 polygraphs over 10 years) was that it was important to always tell the truth, in big things or little things. Another of the effects of this time of my life is that I lost all of my religious language. I also began to see the world from a non-religious mindset. My relationship with my wife has been very close. She is my best friend. She and I talk over almost everything in our lives. We share the most intimate things in our lives with one another. We have no secrets from one another. She knows the worst there is about me and still loves me as I do her. I have learned from experience that the husband is the moderator/pacifier/peacemaker of the family. If the husband can keep calm and collected, loving and kind, then no matter what else is going on in the house, the craziness won’t last. The calm loving attitude of the husband will prevail. I have seen it happen over and over again in my house for many years. However, if the husbands returns the anger or tries to prove himself right, that just adds to and amplifies the tension and anger in the house. Now, back to your situation. You might think that your difference in beliefs is the big issue. I have another viewpoint. I submit to you that if you genuinely and consistently showed your love to her in very practical ways (gently touching and caressing her with no ulterior motives, never yelling at her or condemned her, always spoke respectfully and encouragingly to her, helping around the house, taking out the trash without being told …. that it would make a huge difference in your relationship. and NEVER defend yourself or your beliefs to her. Instead, just put aside your desire to “correct” her impression of you, instead, ALWAYS act with love and compassion to her, AND just listen to her. Gradually draw her out. and let her express whatever is on her mind to you, about you, or anything else, in a safe environment. (Safe, meaning not criticising or correcting her), just let her be herself. and I would suggest to you that you change your attitude towards her and to be pleased with her, smile at her, play with her, and just tenderly express your love to her no matter how she is acting towards you., Watch your wife (without her knowing) and study her. See what is important to her and take an interest in whatever interests her. A big change may not come about instantly, but don’t give up, EVER. The both of you have a lot of history and habits to overcome. But keep at it, don’t get discouraged. Whenever there is a rift between you two, no matter who was at fault, you take the initiative and apologize, and really mean it. Don’t ask for forgiveness (a faulty Christian practice, which would require a response from her that she may not be able or willing to give) Instead, say, “I’m sorry, I was wrong”. (That requires nothing from her.) And then let it go. I’ve heard it expressed, “Do you want to be right, or do you want to be happy?” Yes, I’ve seen it play out that way in my marriage. I’d rather be happy. If she gets angry at you and start throwing fiery darts at you (figuratively speaking), stand aside and let the angry comments go past you. Don’t pick them up, don’t get angry back, but remain calm and listen to her. Insightful, I don’t know your wife. Nor do I really know your situation. However, I’m convinced that you can make a difference in your situation with patient loving perseverance. Put aside the thought of religious difference and just fully love your wife, from the heart. Do it in ways that she can see every day. Learn what she likes, and then do those things, willingly with a glad attitude. Learn to please her as a man pleases a woman. This is not about religion, or beliefs, or any of that stuff. Put all that aside, and just love and care for her from your heart. Smile at her, talk sweetly to her. It doesn’t matter how she responds. Do it because that is who you are. Go read this article. You are Love, Live Out Who You Are (disregard the word God in the article) My dad was the BOSS of the family at home, and he was frequently angry. (Anger is a control tactic) Having seen how that played out in my birth family, I wanted nothing to do with that role model. In my marriage I see my wife and myself as equal partners. I set her free to be who she is, as she does me. She doesn’t live by my blueprint, but by her own. She has told me over and over again that she is so glad that is he is married to me. As I am to her. We both work together to make this marriage work. She is a delight to my eyes, and a balm to my soul (whatever that means.) Hoping that things go well with you. Best Wishes, Stephen 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insightful Posted February 2, 2016 Author Share Posted February 2, 2016 Wow, guys, I continued to be BLOWN AWAY by all of the kindness, empathy, support, and ideas you all have shared. Thank you especially to OTRR and Deidre for your personal concern for me and asking about how I've been. I also really appreciate the marriage veterans - Ellinas and Steven. Your perspectives and wisdom mean a lot. Some points I wanted to reply to: Someone mentioned how my marriage struggles are much deeper than a difference of faith. I agree. I think if we'd had a strong marriage where there was deep mutual respect and trust, we'd have had a better chance getting through my loss of faith... (Im sure it still would have been really hard...). But, whoever said this was right - we are just so very different in a lot of ways. The difficult thing for me is that I think that CHRISTIANITY had a lot to do with why my wife felt so disregarded: the Bible taught me that my wife was created FOR me to be MY helper. (I don't think this way any more, but how could I be blamed for think so as a Christian?). All of these ideas promoted by the Bible - that women are to be submissive to their husbands, that they are to remain silent in church and not have authority over men, etc, how in the OT, women were treated much like property - all of these ideas subconsciously influence how Christian husbands treat their wives, even if we men are not being malicious... I honestly think my wife is a humanist / feminist at heart. All of her cries for equality and value I agree with. But if I blame Christianity for it, she sees me as not accepting responsibility PERSONALLY for hurting her... But I feel strongly that the ways in which she was hurt by me had MUCH to do with how Christianity colored and shaped my view of marriage... And if I can't accept full personal responsibility (while completely exonerating the Bible), then she doesn't feel like she could trust me - because I wasn't accepting responsibility... Another clarification: By "not safe" she means that she is not safe to be vulnerable with me (and vulnerability is necessary for emotional connectedness which in necessary for sexual connectedness) because of past hurts (judgment, criticism, etc) and present faith differences (she can't be 100% herself because she knows I think that her worldview is incorrect). I feel like I CAN be a confidant to her and that I CAN respect her and honor her despite our different beliefs but this is a barrier for her. In terms of where we are at: * We have at least a superficial peace. We are able to get along, co-parent, and have some laughter and shared experiences together. * She does not pull away when I kiss her on the lips, although she is only very slightly responsive * For the last 2 months or so,whenever I would tell her "I love you" she would just say "thanks" or "goodnight". Sweetly, but no "I love you" back. I talked to her about this - how rejected it was making me feel, and how it made me not want to say that to her anymore if it was never going to be said back. She agreed and is beginning to say it more. of course it's sad that I have to ASK for that. but it's progress. * she still cries before/after any time of intimacy, which are becoming more infrequent right now, in part because I don't enjoy being part of her feeling that way. I think it was OTRR who said that she either 1) doesn't love me anymore or 2) loves me (ultimately) but her faith doesn't allow her to see me as good/lovable anymore because of my unbelief. I think the answer is BOTH to a degree. She has some love left, I can tell. It's much less than it was 5 or 10 years ago, but there is something still there. AND that little bit of love is held hostage by her belief system... AND, I think there is a 3rd element: she feels like the only way to be heard and have her needs met is to continue telegraphing to me that things are NOT OK between us. Hence, limited display of affection, for fear that if she shows affection, I will think that we are doing great and that she is happy in our marriage... So to recap: 1) her love is diminished but not gone 2) her faith/beliefs make it very hard to love and affirm me 3) in her desire to be heard and understood, she limits affection In other ways, though, she has shown a lot of concern for me: 2 weeks ago, she agreed to let my mom stay with us for 10 days. My mom is not an easy person! But she was going through some massive depression, so my wife was gracious to take her in - and to personally make sure she was eating well and taking her meds. My wife even drove my mom 90 miles one way to her Dr appt so someone would be with her to help understand what the doctor had to say... And yesterday, she came into the office with me (my own business) to help fix a big work problem. I felt so supported by her. So that's where we are. It's not great, but it's workable for now - especially if it can get better. I think it can, but maybe I missing all of the obvious signs. I don't feel like I'd be any worse off though to give it a little more time... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offtheromanroad Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 Hi insightful, Good to hear from you! Just a few thoughts: - Do you really have to blame Christianity? Can't you just apologize for how you have treated her in the past and change how you treat her? - I imagine such a changewould be closely related with you un-learning what you grew up with (headship, helper, submission...) and learning/finding your way to redefining your partnership as a couple (!) - It'd also have to do with her seeing that you want to change how you treat her - Maybe she's afraid you won't provide for her anymore (not just financially) - show her you will, and be patient - I don't think it's fair to have her tell you she loves you if she doesn't want to do so (and it doesn't make sense to me) - Show her that you love her, and she might just love you back - maybe it's not as much about words now but about showing her you love her and won't let her down just because you don't believe anymore - try to win her back through love, not by making her tell you she loves you... - She doesn't have to kiss you if she doesn't feel like it. Accept that. - Find a way to redefine your partnership together and learn about what EQUALITY really means. Together. This might sound very different from my last post, but your hints about what image of marriage you (both?) grew up with might just make me understand her a little more (and you, too). I think it's much more about redefining your partnership and learning what respect is and that equality is possible. Try to learn about that, go and find resources! And don't force her into anything along the way. Make it about you both as a couple, not about you vs. her or your unbelief vs. her faith system. And learn how to truly respect each other. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daffodil Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 Insightful - glad things are going reasonably well and that you still see reason to hope, but I have to say one thing. You have mentioned more than once that she cries before and after intimacy. Every time you mention that, I flinch because it sounds coercive. Why are you being intimate with someone who clearly is uncomfortable with it? I understand you have needs, but is it worth making her cry to get your needs met? That by itself would make me think her lack of trust in you is warranted. I want to support you and would love to see your relationship with her restored, but are you still operating under the patriarchal mindset of women must meet the sexual needs of their husbands even when they don't feel like it? When I confessed to my husband years ago that I sometimes had sex with him even when I didn't want to because I knew he "needed" it, he was appalled! He told me he'd rather not do it at all than think I was just going through the motions for his benefit. I know some people see it differently, and I have found that sometimes I can get in the mood after a little help from him, but it still sounds coercive the way you are depicting it. Maybe I am misreading it. Just wanted to share my thoughts. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenW Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 Hi insightful, Good to hear from you! Just a few thoughts: - Do you really have to blame Christianity? Can't you just apologize for how you have treated her in the past and change how you treat her? - I don't think it's fair to have her tell you she loves you if she doesn't want to do so (and it doesn't make sense to me) - Show her that you love her, and she might just love you back - maybe it's not as much about words now but about showing her you love her and won't let her down just because you don't believe anymore - try to win her back through love, not by making her tell you she loves you... - She doesn't have to kiss you if she doesn't feel like it. Accept that. - Find a way to redefine your partnership together and learn about what EQUALITY really means. Together. And don't force her into anything along the way. Make it about you both as a couple, not about you vs. her or your unbelief vs. her faith system. And learn how to truly respect each other. Hi offtheromanroad, I couldn't agree more. Nicely said! Insightful, listen to him. Show her consistently that you love her (by treating her with kindness, gentleness etc.). Don't "expect" anything in return. Let your good behavior toward her be about you and how you will treat her. Don't try to make or convince her to respond any except what she genuinely feels. Men are initators, women are responders. If you consistently show that you love her, by your kind actions, no matter how long it takes it will speak volumes to her. How you treat her consistently over a long period of time will determine a lot in how she will respond to you. Don't give up, and don't submit to the pity party feelings. Don't think about your needs now, think about only her needs. She is wounded and just needs you to care for her. And I also agree with Daffodil, stop having sex with her right now. When you have sex with her, as Daffodil, it sounds coercive, AND you are hurting her emotionally. You are damaging your relationship with her when you have sex with her when she clearly doesn't want it. Back off of the sex, and just focus on treating with complete tenderness and kindness. Whenever she will willingly let you, just hold her and caress her tenderly WITH NO EXPECTATIONS of it leading to sex. Instantly let her go anytime she wants to get free. You are building her inner sense of safety when you do these things. That is what is important in your relationship right now. One other thing, Insightful, I'm currently working on a book, of sorts about the marriage relationship. It's called, The Wedding Night, and Beyond. There are many things in it that may help you. I especially think that you need to read the section on page 7 called Honoring Her "No". It seems clear that she is telling you "no" (by her crying before and after intimacy), but you are not listening to her. The book is in a real rough early first draft right now (There are lots of unwritten sections), but there are some things that could give you some helpful ideas and directions. Best Wishes, Stephen 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insightful Posted February 3, 2016 Author Share Posted February 3, 2016 I guess I'm getting confused... before, everyone was saying "you deserve better!" "she's withholding affection and that is not OK" and now the sentiment seems to have turned? I'm just curious to understand the shift?? Could any of you stay married to someone who doesn't: 1) ever tell you they love you 2) turns away from your affection 3) cries over intimacy 4) tells you that you cannot be respected because of your unbelief Who could stay in that situation?? So I'm trying to communicate with her what I need to be able to stay in this. I'm gladly working through my issues, but where can I draw strength and motivation to do that if I'm not receiving what I need from this marriage? Does this make sense? #s 1-4 above are leaving me feeling pretty depressed. I feel worthless to her. I feel sometimes sick over it. SO alone. While I understand the advice I'm being given, I'm just hoping you all can try to imagine what it's like to try to pour oneself into a relationship while feeling totally empty and with little hope... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daffodil Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 I do understand this is a very difficult situation for you, and that is why I didn't say anything the first time you mentioned the crying. If she is crying in order to manipulate you, that's obviously messed up, but I keep envisioning having sex with someone who is crying and I just can't imagine how you are getting any satisfaction from that. If she is just trying to manipulate you or if intimacy really is that difficult for her, either way I would think it would be doubly uncomfortable for you to be intimate with her. Maybe telling her you desire her but are no longer willing to be intimate as long as she acts like it's emotionally painful for her. If she never comes back to it, that tells you something, I think. I don't know. I really do feel for you and I know this must be terribly lonely for you, I just felt the need to tell you how it sounds when you say that. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milesaway Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 I can imagine what it's like to give a relationship your all and feeling hopeless the whole time. I've been there myself, though in my case religion had nothing to do with it. I got the impression that you never once gave her any reason to act like this, and that's what I based my comment on. All of that still holds, and to answer your question, there's no way in hell I could stay married to someone who acts like this upon finding out about my lack of belief in any god or gods. You're taking the steps to work on whatever issues you have, but it doesn't seem like she's all that interested in doing the same, like a normal adult. You went into this caring about her as a person, not because of her beliefs, and the way you're feeling now is living proof of it. If she truly feels like she can't handle a relationship with someone irreligious to the point she's having meltdowns over it, then either she should be actively looking into counseling or starting divorce proceedings, not putting you in a really terrible situation like this. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offtheromanroad Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 Insightful, we're not suddenly turning against you. We're trying to look at the situation and give advice based on what you're telling us. She might also feel lonely and hurt, and vulnerable. Maybe your deconversion is not the only thing she can't handle (and I don't say this to hurt you!). Talk to her. SHOW her that you love her. What do you think? How are you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts