yunea Posted December 25, 2015 Share Posted December 25, 2015 I live with my bf and a woman about my age, we're all poor students so only together we can afford to rent an actually nice place. I've known her for about 5 years now, one and a half of that we've lived together. We used to be good friends, had a lot in common. Pretty soon after first meeting we found out we were both Christian. We have also both been severely depressed, and both a bit "outcasts". So we were able to support each other in many ways and share a lot of stuff. The Christianity I felt wasn't a major factor, rather like a beautiful secret we shared and would trust each other to understand if we wanted to discuss it (which we sometimes did, usually accompanied by lots of smiling). Things happened, I had my own rather violent, traumatic deconversion, and during/after that I also finally started on the road to recovery from depression. I was still deconverting and a huge mess in the head when we moved in together. I couldn't talk about it until a long time after the fact, though when I did, she claimed to not be surprised because "in the spirit" she'd known. Also, while I was getting better and also farther away from religion and superstition, she joined a small church with its roots in a bigger local Pentecostal church (I don't know what that means), and while attending it more and more often and even hosting "Women's Cell" nights in our home (for which I and my also atheist bf politely go somewhere else, but that's not a problem for us at all), her depression and general dissatisfaction with life seem to at least not be getting any easier. The other day I realised our once nice friendship has withered down to discussing household practises such as washing dishes, and what my pet snails are doing at the time. She won't even be honest with me about studying (I found this out by accident). Then the memories came flooding back. I don't know why I took so long to realise this but I miss our friendship so much it hurts. It might be that a part of it was so closely linked to my past as a religious nut, even if it didn't define our friendship from my point of view, and I have pushed a lot of my memories from that time to the back of my mind where they're hard to access. I also understand that if I want this to change and know that at least I tried, I'll have to take initiative. I wonder if she gets told at church that she should minister to me and my bf, as on top of being atheist, we're not married but live together (and sure don't keep our hands off each other) so that's many problematic things in their view. I've been thinking of perhaps telling her that if they tell her that, they should just talk to me instead of her (my bf agrees on this 100% and would talk to them too if they were to come over for that). The problem is I have no clue how narrow-minded the church is, as there are very different kinds of churches here. I feel like maybe attending a service or a few just to see what this sweet young woman lets herself be exposed to. I feel strong in my own atheism and also have viewed so many crazy Pente videos, I don't think I'd get too terribly bad PTSD there. Then again if I actually did, that'd of course be painful for me but it perhaps might erase other people's doubts about whether I was serious in the first place - something I know a lot of us have heard others say re deconversion. We are going to live together for at least another six months, possibly longer. I love this place and it would suck to have to abandon it because we don't get along anymore. I know no one here is a clairvoyant and knows exactly what to do, but I would appreciate thoughts. I'm ready to work to repair the friendship but I'm not sure how to go about it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted December 25, 2015 Super Moderator Share Posted December 25, 2015 Sadly, those who leave the religion suddenly have nothing in common with those in the cult. You are no longer seen as an equal in her eyes since she now believes she has been "filled with the spirit" and you are just another sinner who needs her help. Best of luck to you all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♦ ficino ♦ Posted December 25, 2015 Share Posted December 25, 2015 Hi Yunea, your story of your friendship slowly wilting breaks my heart. I've been through that before, and I've seen it happen many times. It sounds as though, if you weren't roommates, you'd be drifting apart. I wish I knew from observation or experience a way to restore the "us" that you miss now. I can't say I've found it. I went through a very painful slow dying of what I thought would be a friendship for life. I started noticing on the internet and in bookstores that a lot of people confide their feelings in such heartache to writing. There is a whole book called something like "The Friend That Got Away," by twenty or more writers who talk about close friendships that deteriorated. It can be more painful than breaking up with a lover, partly because you don't expect it as readily with a friend. We think our friends are there for us, not for what they're getting from us, and we for them. But the shared basis can change over time. From what you've said, it sounds as though part of your shared basis, beyond religion, was sort of bonding in time of personal struggle and depression. It might be that it's best to think of the friendship you had as part of that time. Now that you are both past that time - and especially, you - the basis isn't the same. Does she envy or even resent the fact that you have a boyfriend and are living together? Does she feel that the "us" isn't the same anymore? Anyway, I have no solution to offer. I can imagine your having a calm conversation and telling her how it seems she lied to you and how it hurts you, since you've been close friends, and trying to open up from there. I'm not good at predicting how things will go. But maybe that's the ethical thing. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geezer Posted December 25, 2015 Share Posted December 25, 2015 Life is filled with change. You are going through a period of change in your life. Couples divorce, friends move on, you move to a new place, you change jobs, that is just life. It seems from your post that you & your friend don't have much in common anymore. It happens. Your post sounds to me like you are both ready to move on with your lives & go in different directions & that is probably going to happen whether you want it to or not. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitehot Posted December 25, 2015 Share Posted December 25, 2015 She probably feels the exact same way as you - she must miss your closeness as much as you do but maybe doesn't know how to say so. If you want to save your friendship, be honest with her about what you're feeling. You shouldn't have to go to her church and spy on what she's being taught, but rather just communicate directly with your friend. I have been very surprised by how understanding and loving people have been when you just approach them with humility, love and honesty. Not talking about their views and not being challenged is the reason why Christians get away with treating people badly - if you love her and think she's a good person, don't let her get away with any bad behavior due to the religion. Lovingly tell her your alternate views and respectfully disagree. Don't let the Christian superiority complex make you feel inferior. Friendship can transcend religious beliefs and interfaith friendships can be fertile ground for personal growth. In short, don't give up! That's my 2 cents. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RenaissanceWoman Posted December 25, 2015 Share Posted December 25, 2015 Nice responses so far, interesting perspectives. I think ficino is on to something with the third-wheel feeling she may have. You and your bf are atheists, are a couple, have your own thing going ... so where does that leave her? I'm sure you are not an us-against-her kind of situation, but with her depression and your happier couplehood, it could just be awkward for her. Since she is doing the Women's Cell things, she seems to be reaching out to other people for social interaction. Maybe she feels included in something that way. Is there something that the two of you used to do together, that you could do again? Even if it's just going to the grocery store together? Work together on baking/cooking a favorite meal together. Repaint the kitchen together in sunshine yellow, a partnership project. Something like that. When couples lose their spark, people advise them to rekindle date nights and such, so maybe that could work for you as girl friends also -- I don't know, just an idea. Don't get me wrong -- I'm not blaming you making her feel left out or anything like that. I hope it doesn't come across that way. We're all just trying to see things from both sides so we can give thoughts to help with the big picture dynamic. If the relationship is meant to fade away, well, so be it. That happens with deconversion, and it is a painful reality. But if you are going to be sharing a roof for several more months, it might be worth trying to rekindle it for a while for peace (and maybe even happiness?) in the home. I hope you'll keep posting your thoughts on this as time passes. And I hope you find some peace with this soon. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlowerDemon Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 She probably feels the exact same way as you - she must miss your closeness as much as you do but maybe doesn't know how to say so. If you want to save your friendship, be honest with her about what you're feeling. You shouldn't have to go to her church and spy on what she's being taught, but rather just communicate directly with your friend. I have been very surprised by how understanding and loving people have been when you just approach them with humility, love and honesty. Not talking about their views and not being challenged is the reason why Christians get away with treating people badly - if you love her and think she's a good person, don't let her get away with any bad behavior due to the religion. Lovingly tell her your alternate views and respectfully disagree. Don't let the Christian superiority complex make you feel inferior. Friendship can transcend religious beliefs and interfaith friendships can be fertile ground for personal growth. In short, don't give up! That's my 2 cents. ^ this. Just be straight up and say how you feel. If she is understanding and willing to spend time with you and work on the friendship, then perhaps it will get better. But if she lets her religion conflict with your guys' friendship (like it sounds like it already has a bit)..then perhaps it's time for you and your bf to move on. I can understand the attachment..not wanting to leave a place you've grown to love, with a person you've been friends with for a long time. Recently, I had to leave my ex and move out of my comfortable home, not knowing where I was gonna go or what was gonna happen. You will know in your gut if you want to stay or go, and so will your bf. Just follow your instincts and do what is best for you, even if it means conflict. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yunea Posted December 31, 2015 Author Share Posted December 31, 2015 Thanks very much for all the replies. She's been visiting her family so I've had time to let these thoughts and the feelings they bring sink in. I'll be posting about how things go. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellinas Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 Not a lot to add - save that I've learned to appreciate the wisdom of an approach to which I suppose I've generally adhered but was best articulated by a woman with whom I work: "I don't do rewind, only fast forward". Recovering a past relationship can be at best difficult and rarely worthwhile. The question, it seems to me, is whether there is still a relationship to recover. Only you can answer that one. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offtheromanroad Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 Is she back now? How is it going? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarbarousBill Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 I hope it works out for you. My best mate and I talk religion a lot. He's an unobservant (though he claims to be "serious" and "devout") Mormon (no he doesn't pay tithe) and sometimes talks religion. We kind of have an unwritten understanding where he can go off about it, or philosophy, and then I get my time. He can get offended easily but I'm a good enough salesman he gets the gist of what I'm saying. Usually it revolves around death. He is oddly okay with there being nothing after death. And I am too. It's never been a source of any particularly bad disturbance in the friendship. I got some Buddhist friends who took a critique of their religion MUCH MUCH MUCH worse, which was unexpected. And I'm constantly surprised how many Arab Atheists and open minded Muslims I meet at University every day. Either way, I have no foot in the pool you're immersed in and I wish you all the best. It's good to have multiple plans. I'd say plan for any eventuality, hope for the best, and work for the rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amateur Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 I'm liking what whitehot and FlowerDemon said above. If you think the relationship is worth saving, or if you want six months of a more comfortable relationship in your home, you need to sit down and talk directly with her. Just a talk like friends, about where you are now and what you still cherish about her friendship. If you go to her church, she'll be getting a different message than what you want. She'll think you're coming back to church and god. You can ask her about the church she attends, if her beliefs have changed because of that church, and how she feels about it. Her perception of the church and what she gets out of it are the important things, not the actual church and their teachings. Good luck! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yunea Posted January 10, 2016 Author Share Posted January 10, 2016 She only came back tonight, and everyone was much too tired for serious talk. I will be posting, and I sincerely thank everyone for your thoughts. However if you don't see me for a while, it's because I fear I have a major lingering health issue and am going to seek for treatment asap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offtheromanroad Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 Hey yunea, We'll be here waiting for you. I will keep my fingers crossed and hope for the best when it comes to your health. I hope for the best treatment you can get, whatever it is! OTRR 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedah Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 This is unfortunately a common problem. With deconversion comes the realization that you really don't have as much in common with those in the fold as you thought. Part of the proof of this is the very fact that you ended up deconverting - you did so likely because you felt that something was wrong with how you viewed the world, in one way or another. The reality is some of your old friendships will be unsalvageable. Most of us here have been through this and you just have to sort of accept it and move on. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yunea Posted January 13, 2016 Author Share Posted January 13, 2016 Phew, I probably am not that awfully ill. I'll give it a couple weeks and if I still have these certain symptoms I'll get back in touch with a doc. In other news I am wearing a polygraph machine right now, complete with the face mask. I feel like a robot. With that out of the way... I'm a little surprised, she has acted very friendly towards me since she returned and had enough rest. Nothing awfully deep going on but there's much more smiling, much more small talk, her seeking to be with me on campus, that kind of little niceness. I'm focusing on returning it because that kind of thing is nice and all, but I get a little blunt at times because she's almost like catching me off guard - I don't expect this and am not pre-"tuned in". Might be that she's missed us too. I'll be posting when there's something new to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amateur Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 I hope you continue to do well with your illness. Please take care of YOURSELF first, worry about her after that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlowerDemon Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 I have learned that no matter what your living situation is, always have a plan b in case of things not working out. It's a safety net that's always good to have set up, because you never know what could happen. Even if you decide to stay roommates with her for longer, it wouldn't hurt to have some kind of back up plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yunea Posted February 1, 2016 Author Share Posted February 1, 2016 Okay, we finally talked. What matters the most is that we both seem willing to work again to spend time together doing nice things, such as walks, sitting at cafeterias, that kind of things. That and there immediately was a better general atmosphere once I had gone ahead and said, "I really want to talk". Some details that might interest people here: I kind of get the vibe that she has explained my deconversion to herself by deciding I wasn't really a Christian anyway. She doesn't really say it out loud, but something about her tells me that. Granted I did have my adventure into the New Age-style jesusy stuff before leaving religion altogether (hey, I was one of those people who wanted to see the astrological natal chart of jesus!), and then there's the whole thing about me being able to leave, and I know both of those make me seem suspicious from a Biblical point of view. Some of the more gruesome details I still leave out when talking to her about it, so she unfortunately gets the idea that it was altogether an easier time than it was, but I told her more than I had before and she said "I didn't know it was THAT hard". However, we did have a good talk about her faith and what she finds positive about church (some of you guys were very right about what she might say), and we also looked back on some things that happened before and during we have known, seeing those things very differently now. At least now it seems possible to live together without too much tension. It's a good start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amateur Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 I'm glad things are calmer between you two! It's horrible living in an awkward situation with someone! Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeThinkerNZ Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 Glad to hear it's improving and I hope your health is doing better too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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