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Goodbye Jesus

Christian Faith And The Classics Of Tv Science Fiction


ironhorse

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After watching most of the SyFys annual New Years "Twilight Zone" marathon, I thought I would share the following:

 

The Truth Is Out There: Christian Faith and the Classics of TV Science Fiction

 

~ Amazon reader review of the book by Thomas Bertonneau and Kim Paffenroth

 

These authors have used six television shows, Doctor Who, Star Trek, The Prisoner, The Twilight Zone, The X-Files and Babylon 5, to examine the ways such television shows acknowledge a God who is intimately engaged with humans. Each of these television shows offered its viewers iconic archetypal heroes and villains, ones who are not that different from the great figures of the biblical text.

 

Over time these productions grappled with human choices when presented with ethical dilemmas. They looked into the multidimensional faces of evil in the human realm. Viewers were thrust into the midst of such grand storytelling, right along with the characters in the television production. These authors have looked at the power of one aspect of the popular culture, linked it to theology in informed ways, and offered conclusions that are hopeful. Rather than reject television as "trash," Bertonneau and Paffenroth offer readers a fascinating analytical consideration of an inextricable part of our everyday lives.

~ From a review of The Twilight Zone episode “The Gift” on IMBd

 

Rod Serling was never one to try shy away from religious themes, and this is an example of such. It's not so much a science fiction story as a veiled retelling of the story of Christ: a mild-mannered man comes to Earth to bring a message of peace, but, instead, he is seen as a threat and killed, with a crowd calling for his death. One character is even called Judas for betraying his whereabouts to authorities.

 

It's fascinating to see, as you watch this and other episodes of the Twilight Zone, just how much faith Serling put into religion and belief in God.

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Those shows were popular many, many, years ago the country & the thinking was very different then. The fact God & religion was more widely accepted 100-75-50 or even 25 years ago isn't relevant to the present generation. Knowledge has greatly increased since the beginning of the 20th century. God isn't as popular as he used to be.

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This is cute. A christian relating the stories in the bible to a fictional television show without so much as batting an eye at the irony.

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This is cute. A christian relating the stories in the bible to a fictional television show without so much as batting an eye at the irony.

 

...or dealing with outstanding matters first, before launching into such trivia.

 

Such as making good on his claim that he's skeptically appraised his own Christian faith.

 

We're still waiting IronHorse!

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There are standard themes that reoccur throughout the human story. People always have and always will write stories addressing those major themes of love, lust, hate, murder, power, dynasty, destiny, loss and salvation. Some of those writers produced works about the human condition and they ended up included in the material chosen to be chapters or books in the Bible. 

 

It seems that Bible stories acknowledged the gods and religious practices which existed at the time of writing. Current authors reference current gods and religious practices as well. Neither example provides validation for the gods/religions referenced in their fictional works.

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Mileage may vary on these sorts of things.

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That's how I got saved. I was watching the Twilight Zone and saw the light. Later I was baptized in the Holy Ghost listening to Bono sing. I immediately was led to the desert and tempted with Black Sabbath albums, but resisted by listening to Bob Dylan songs for forty days.

I suspect Ironhorse thinks the way I do.  I don't see the need to discuss faith or the Bible. Everything we need to be saved and live a godly life is right there in pop culture.  

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This book sounds a lot like a lot I have seen (probably in the no-longer-existent SPCK bookshop in Durham Cathedral), usually from he liberal-sih side of Christianity, trying to link theology and popular culture.

 

A sharp contrast to the types who think it's all evil, godless and whatnot. (I'm sure you'll find one fundy nutcase out there deriding all of these shows. I mean, I was a Trekkie as was one of my pastors but there were storylines I was uncomfortable watching whien still a Christian...)

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That's how I got saved. I was watching the Twilight Zone and saw the light. Later I was baptized in the Holy Ghost listening to Bono sing. I immediately was led to the desert and tempted with Black Sabbath albums, but resisted by listening to Bob Dylan songs for forty days.

I suspect Ironhorse thinks the way I do.  I don't see the need to discuss faith or the Bible. Everything we need to be saved and live a godly life is right there in pop culture.

LOL
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There are standard themes that reoccur throughout the human story. People always have and always will write stories addressing those major themes of love, lust, hate, murder, power, dynasty, destiny, loss and salvation. Some of those writers produced works about the human condition and they ended up included in the material chosen to be chapters or books in the Bible. 

 

It seems that Bible stories acknowledged the gods and religious practices which existed at the time of writing. Current authors reference current gods and religious practices as well. Neither example provides validation for the gods/religions referenced in their fictional works.

 

 florduh,

 

I realize we do not agree on most issues in the Lions Den, but I do appreciate that you agree that writers often will incorporate their religious beliefs in their writings. They often do with the use of allegories, symbolism , imagery, and other literary techniques.

Religion and the other themes you mention are universal themes in good literature.  

 

Even those silly TV writers or silly songwriters. 

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The bible IS literature.  Not an instruction manual, but literature.  It's art.  And can be interpreted many different ways by different people.

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There are standard themes that reoccur throughout the human story. People always have and always will write stories addressing those major themes of love, lust, hate, murder, power, dynasty, destiny, loss and salvation. Some of those writers produced works about the human condition and they ended up included in the material chosen to be chapters or books in the Bible. 

 

It seems that Bible stories acknowledged the gods and religious practices which existed at the time of writing. Current authors reference current gods and religious practices as well. Neither example provides validation for the gods/religions referenced in their fictional works.

 

 florduh,

 

I realize we do not agree on most issues in the Lions Den, but I do appreciate that you agree that writers often will incorporate their religious beliefs in their writings. They often do with the use of allegories, symbolism , imagery, and other literary techniques.

Religion and the other themes you mention are universal themes in good literature.  

 

Even those silly TV writers or silly songwriters. 

 

The only "universal themes" would be the fundamentals of human experience: sex, death, people.

 

That religious themes from the dominant religion in a society show up in its creative works just means those things are out there. The fact that someone incorporates such a thing into their work doesn't mean that the thing is true, or even that the artist thinks it's true. It just means that it's out there.

 

You can pick any number of lenses and find other things in the same art. Art is rich and complex, and the ways we read and interpret it equally so. 

 

But really, this is just Ironhorse's latest thing that he'll bring up until it's obvious that he doesn't actually understand it very well and that it isn't leading any of us to change our minds, and then he'll drop it, too, and throw out some other half-thought-out thing.

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There are standard themes that reoccur throughout the human story. People always have and always will write stories addressing those major themes of love, lust, hate, murder, power, dynasty, destiny, loss and salvation. Some of those writers produced works about the human condition and they ended up included in the material chosen to be chapters or books in the Bible. 

 

It seems that Bible stories acknowledged the gods and religious practices which existed at the time of writing. Current authors reference current gods and religious practices as well. Neither example provides validation for the gods/religions referenced in their fictional works.

 

 florduh,

 

I realize we do not agree on most issues in the Lions Den, but I do appreciate that you agree that writers often will incorporate their religious beliefs in their writings. They often do with the use of allegories, symbolism , imagery, and other literary techniques.

Religion and the other themes you mention are universal themes in good literature.  

 

Even those silly TV writers or silly songwriters. 

 

The only "universal themes" would be the fundamentals of human experience: sex, death, people.

 

That religious themes from the dominant religion in a society show up in its creative works just means those things are out there. The fact that someone incorporates such a thing into their work doesn't mean that the thing is true, or even that the artist thinks it's true. It just means that it's out there.

 

You can pick any number of lenses and find other things in the same art. Art is rich and complex, and the ways we read and interpret it equally so. 

 

But really, this is just Ironhorse's latest thing that he'll bring up until it's obvious that he doesn't actually understand it very well and that it isn't leading any of us to change our minds, and then he'll drop it, too, and throw out some other half-thought-out thing.

 

 

1. I agree, it does not necessarily mean it is true but neither does it prove it is untrue.

 

2. I agree, religious themes are found in other belief systems. Yes, it does depend on it is interpreted.

 

3. I have been interested in religious themes in literature, music and art since my days in high school. Like I posted, after watching The Twilight Zone marathon, I found this book and the review interesting. 

 

Last week I watch the 2015 film Fury. It is a realistic gritty film about a WW2 tank crew. Towards the end of the story, facing a grave threat, they pass a bottle of brandy and quote a few scripture verses. It is the quiet before the storm. No, that is not trying to prove or disprove the scripture, but is does show that in extremely dangerous situations some people do seek comfort in their faith.

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Ironhorse appears to be looking for external justifications for his own religious faith.

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I meant "art" is in something that can interpreted in many ways by different people.  I wasn't judging it as good or bad.  But it can most definitely by interpreted differently by everybody.

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Ironhorse seems to have left "The Walking Dead" out of his assessment.  

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It's odd to me how people view Christianity, since Jesus' primary goal on earth was to establish a religion with worship of himself as its object, not to bring peace and love and good morals. 

 

According to the mythology, that is; the Jesus depicted in the bible didn't exist, according to what we know, so it's all moot from the get go.

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Ironhorse seems to have left "The Walking Dead" out of his assessment.  

 

Happy to see you are aware of some of the religious/faith themes

and the Christian characters in "The Walking Dead".

 

Whether you agree or disagree with the themes or characters, it is a good example.

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Ironhorse,

 

Please rearrange these words to make a meaningful sentence and then do something about it.

 

appraisal

excuse

failing

faith

for

have

I

my

no

of

present

skeptical

the 

to

 

 

 

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Ironhorse seems to have left "The Walking Dead" out of his assessment.  

 

Happy to see you are aware of some of the religious/faith themes

and the Christian characters in "The Walking Dead".

 

Whether you agree or disagree with the themes or characters, it is a good example.

 

No, the flesh-eating, society-destroying, brain-dead zombie theme dovetails quite nicely with the christian religion, in my humble opinion.  Raise a glass of Cheerwine, my good man; we actually agree on this point.

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Yeah, Rick Grimes and the gang spend so much time on their knees praying it's ridiculous. ..

 

Funny though, father Gabriel (a priest/preacher) is the only christian character I can recall at the moment. And he is plain as day THE most worthless, backstabbing and cowardly character on the show.

 

Just wait until they introduce Jesus! He's a character from the book. He's a badass ninja type that kicks serious ass!

 

Does that get you excited IH, knowing that there's a character in The Walking Dead named Jesus that kicks ass? I'm sure it does. Probably has you frothing at the mouth thinking, 'Wow! The Walking Dead really IS a christian show! They HAVE to be if they have a character named Jesus!'

 

 

Well, IH, the character is also gay. Yes, Jesus is gay. This is absolute proof that The Walking Dead is a christian story, right? And that the writers have nothing but christianity on the brain when they put it together.

 

Fuck off...

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Yeah, Rick Grimes and the gang spend so much time on their knees praying it's ridiculous. ..

 

Funny though, father Gabriel (a priest/preacher) is the only christian character I can recall at the moment. And he is plain as day THE most worthless, backstabbing and cowardly character on the show.

 

Just wait until they introduce Jesus! He's a character from the book. He's a badass ninja type that kicks serious ass!

 

Does that get you excited IH, knowing that there's a character in The Walking Dead named Jesus that kicks ass? I'm sure it does. Probably has you frothing at the mouth thinking, 'Wow! The Walking Dead really IS a christian show! They HAVE to be if they have a character named Jesus!'

 

 

Well, IH, the character is also gay. Yes, Jesus is gay. This is absolute proof that The Walking Dead is a christian story, right? And that the writers have nothing but christianity on the brain when they put it together.

 

Fuck off...

 

 

"No, the flesh-eating, society-destroying, brain-dead zombie theme dovetails quite nicely with the christian religion, in my humble opinion.  Raise a glass of Cheerwine, my good man; we actually agree on this point."

~TheRedneckProfessor

 

I can see how the Christian faith can be expressed in a brain-dead zombie story. So, I guess we do agree somewhat on this topic.

Thank you for your toast. I do indeed raise my glass bottle Cheerwine also, my good man.

 

Now, back to the fray...woohoo.gif

 

 

Fweetthawt's comments and replies:

 

Yeah, Rick Grimes and the gang spend so much time on their knees praying it's ridiculous. ..

 

Your statement just put me back into my 7th grade teacher language arts mode.

So, please bear with me on my reply.

 

The theme is a message about life that tries to convey to the reader. Many writers consider the theme before they begin the writing process. Stories may dwell on one theme or several themes. The theme is a message about life that you take away from the book, which can be derived from a set of symbols or a motif that keeps appearing and reappearing throughout the work. Themes are rarely conveyed in plain language but are inferred.

 

List of the most commonly used themes:

http://www.elsegundomiddleschool.org/ourpages/auto/2011/9/21/38403027/75%20COMMON%20THEME%20TOPICS.pdf

 

Stories can have a religious theme without it be overtly stated or shown as in your example of characters constantly praying.

 

 

Funny though, father Gabriel (a priest/preacher) is the only christian character I can recall at the moment. And he is plain as day THE most worthless, backstabbing and cowardly character on the show.

 

I understand why you couldn't recall all of them. I had to look them all up myself.

 

There are other Christians in the story:

http://walkingdead.wikia.com/wiki/Themes:_Religion

 

 

Just wait until they introduce Jesus! He's a character from the book. He's a badass ninja type that kicks serious ass!

Could be, I don’t know.

Does that get you excited IH, knowing that there's a character in The Walking Dead named Jesus that kicks ass? I'm sure it does. Probably has you frothing at the mouth thinking, 'Wow! The Walking Dead really IS a christian show! They HAVE to be if they have a character named Jesus!'

 

I never said The Walking Dead was a Christian show. I remember the character named Jesus turned out to be gay in the comic book and one main LGBT character, Tara Chambler, was introduced in  season four.

 

 

Well, IH, the character is also gay. Yes, Jesus is gay. This is absolute proof that The Walking Dead is a christian story, right? And that the writers have nothing but christianity on the brain when they put it together.

 

I did not say they only had Christianity on their minds. They did, however, wrote several Christian characters and religious themes

into the story.

 

Fuck off...

 

Uh oh! Now there is a word that can start up the etymology lesson.

The word first appeared in an English dictionary in 1598….........

 

Wendytwitch.gif Sorry, I guess I will drop my teacher mode now.

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I did not say they only had Christianity on their minds. They did, however, wrote several Christian characters and religious themes

into the story.

 

 

 

That better be a typo, Mr. Teacherman.  smile.png

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