God Worshipping?

[knightcore]

I'm curious, because in a lot of the pagan communities I've tried to break into on other platforms the majority of the people there have a deity that they worship or at least pay tribute to. Personally I've been too burnt by Christianity and I don't want to commit myself to anyone right now. But if you do worship, how does that work for you? Do you have an altar? Do you leave offerings?

 

I'm really just wondering because while I have an altar it's more of a general thing, and I'm just trying to get a better grips on things.

[florduh]

[VacuumFlux]

I have a few pagan friends, so I've been curious about their practices. I do sometimes have conversations in my head with "gods", but all I really believe about them is that I'm talking to aspects of my subconscious. I also feel like I'm connecting to an ancient stream of humanity in the sense that people thousands of years ago worshiped those gods, which is kinda nice. Feeling like I'm part of something bigger than me, older than me, that will last well after I'm dead. Once I even poured out a touch of my tea to the god I was imagining I was talking to, as a sort of toast or sharing the drink. I figure that even if I think they're just parts of me, if I'm trying to get in touch with parts of my subconscious and bring the better aspects of it into my waking life, a small physical gesture can't hurt.

 

I tried to get more serious about the pagan thing because I like nature and I like altered states of consciousness (especially when you can get there legally!) But for all the things I like about it, it also made me realize that I'm very much not a theist. I did start doing divination, though. Again, it's a little tricky because I don't believe in it as tapping into any knowledge that I don't already have, but it is a good way to have talks with myself. When I pick up divination tools and start thinking about what question I want to ask, I can hit that "go into my head and deal with my shit" mental space way faster than when I try to just sit there and meditate. I've been using ogham, drawing one for past, one for future, and one for present. And then trying to make something coherent out of that based on the little piece of paper that came with the set that gives a few words for what each symbol means. It's rather fun. I love the feeling of setting aside some mental space, and a temporary physical space, for focusing on it. No great insights or anything, but it does seem to help with anxiety.

 

But mostly I just read books. I know I've got a very modern, Christian idea of what deity means and how that fits in with everyday life. So it's fascinating to read about how people in the past actually lived, and how the idea of gods fit into their lives. Recently I've been curious about which bits of the ancient practices made it into modern reconstructionist and neopagan practices, which were intentionally changed, and which is recently made up despite practitioners thinking it's old. The pagans I happen to know are pretty good about differentiating between what's old and what's modern, and I respect them for that.

[knightcore]

@VF I do some divination too! It's mostly for clarity and helping me sort my own thoughts, but I have two tarot decks. One is a Thoth deck and the other is the one most people think of when they think of tarot (but tiny and not with classical illustrations). I've found it helps my anxiety too even if it's just being able to say "no I don't want to do that" and making a point to do the opposite of what the cards indicate.

 

The "gods" being aspects of your subconscious is really interesting, I hadn't ever thought about something like that before. Also do you have any books that you would recommend? There's a used bookstore near me that has a pretty good pagan section, but I mostly get books on herbs from there right now since I'm not really sure what's worth investing in.

[♦ Fuego ♦]

I've dabbled in it and encountered via a vision an unexpected Egyptian deity (Sekhmet apparently) as a guide, but consciously tend towards Celtic trappings and Cernunnos. Lately, I've been trending away from the idea of gods other than as archetypes of personality. I don't see any of them as actual beings, but as parts of the mind or whatever we may "really" be outside of the body.

 

I have invited them, burned incense, smudged, etc. I have not had any encounters other than the one I mentioned. I had manifestations during my days as a charismatic that I still wonder about (electricity zipping through my body, focusing as a ball of buzzy energy at my abdomen, heat pouring down from the ceiling, verbal non-corporeal answers to fasting and praying with actual information I followed up with and was true). Since I know the Christian god isn't real, I don't know what to make of these things. Perhaps intelligence of the collective consciousness, whatever that means. I've really no idea.

[Ellinas]

This question is related to something that was discussed on a pagan forum of which I am a member a while back.

 

There are atheist pagans whose interest is in nature.

 

There are those who state they maintain a relationship with deity without worship.  They tend to talk in terms of "talking to" those deities and of their being "guides".

 

There are those who state they do worship.  But it is far from clear to me that one man's respectful chat is not another man's worship.

 

There tends to be less formality and less hypocritical deference in relation to deity, I think.  Whether you call it "worship"...  Definitions can be slippery.

[VacuumFlux]

@VF I do some divination too! It's mostly for clarity and helping me sort my own thoughts, but I have two tarot decks. One is a Thoth deck and the other is the one most people think of when they think of tarot (but tiny and not with classical illustrations). I've found it helps my anxiety too even if it's just being able to say "no I don't want to do that" and making a point to do the opposite of what the cards indicate.

 

The "gods" being aspects of your subconscious is really interesting, I hadn't ever thought about something like that before. Also do you have any books that you would recommend? There's a used bookstore near me that has a pretty good pagan section, but I mostly get books on herbs from there right now since I'm not really sure what's worth investing in.

 

Sometimes I describe myself as an "materialist atheist Jungian polytheist". Carl Jung came up with the idea of the Collective Unconscious and the gods as Archetypes. Now, I think he actually believed that this was a collective thing external to individual humans that we could tap into, whereas I believe we just all have similar ideas unique to our own brains, but in practice those are very similar ideas. I have not yet actually read any of Jung; that's on my list to do some day.

 

As for book recommendations, I don't have many. I've mostly read blogs and academic books - working at a university has some nice perks. The one I'm reading right now is "Did the Greeks Believe Their Myths?" by Paul Veyne. The answer seems to be that that's a very modern question. And that the Greeks weren't monolithic in what they believed. They did get to a period where they (or at least the educated) decided that the supernatural probably isn't true because no one was experiencing anything like that now, but that it must have been based on real people and real events that just grew in the retelling. And even if it's not all true-true, if tradition treats it like truth then it's quite alright to play along - I think the term "customary beliefs" came up in a translation of a Greek talking about that (that might have been from Plato's Republic).

 

Mostly I've picked out books by picking a topic, figuring out which area of the library it's in, and then grabbing a few that sound interesting. For my next topic, after I finish all the Greek books I checked out, I can't decide if I want to follow clothing history from the Romans up through the Middle Ages (I found out that some aspects of Byzantine formal wear were basically blinged-out vestigial togas! What other weird things might I discover?) or learn about a particular Egyptian deity that the internet doesn't have much to say about.

 

 

There are atheist pagans whose interest is in nature.

 

I like this guy's thoughts on what it means to be "Pagan":

 

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/johnbeckett/2015/01/the-big-tent-of-paganism.html

 

That's a post about "The Big Tent of Paganism" supported by the 4 pillars of "Nature, the Gods, the Self, and Community". Pagans will vary widely in which of those aspects they're into. My primary interests are probably self and nature, but due to my local community I'm also curious about gods.

[Ellinas]

It's an interesting article.

 

I think pagans tend to use the term itself pretty loosely.  It's a label of convenience when talking to others rather than a clearly defined idea.

 

And yes, there are huge variations in the general outlook and in the ideas pertaining to the nature and relevance of deity.

 

He's right about people "wandering in and out", I think. But I'd want to consider the four tent poles at greater leisure before subscribing to this particular Venn diagram.

[Lycorth]

When I used to practice Asatru, I would go and pour some of the drink I was having, as a sacrifice to Thor or Odin, and ask them for guidance. Would do that when the mood struck me, not at any regular time. The drink was usually vodka, and sometimes I poured it out in a kind of hammer shape (think an inverted capital T).

 

I didn't have any issues adapting myself to comrade-type gods instead of a master-type god, like the one in Christianity. Justifying theism as a whole eventually proved to be the sticking point, but taking the usual Heathen tack of looking at the gods as comrades and allies instead of cranky-ass supervisors who needed to be constantly placated was refreshing and felt much more palatable.

[knightcore]

I really like how all of you seem to kinda agree about it being a more even grounds than christianity and making more personal. I think that's what I always wanted since the way I used to talk to god wasn't very reverent. Maybe that's why he turned his back on me

 

But in all seriousness thank you all for your responses, it's been really interesting to see how each of you have handled it. I still don't think I want to mess with anything but offerings now and then might become a thing.

[Ellinas]

Go with as much or as little as makes sense to you.

[nightflighter]

In my case, my belief in the bible god started to wane eight years ago when a particular Spirit said in a voice I could feel and hear "I am here". She went on to start to explain things to me, and said that She had claimed a tree in the back yard She wanted offerings at, usually flowers and alcohol poured around the base of the tree. I have "freestyle" prayers I say to Her, and She has blessed me in ways unimaginable in my life just a few years ago. Conversely, I have stared death in the face just so She could show Her power....As it turned out, it was one of my "baptisms" She gave me into the five elements; all were "up close and personal" except for the "water", which was a one-hundred year flood.

 

Oh, and little did I know.....She started telling me "nard", meaning She wanted me to get Spikenard. I got some Spikenard oil, She told me to touch it to myself, which I did. Later, it was getting hard for me to take care of my hair (She likes it long), I got a haircut. She said it looked good, which suprised me!

 

Later I was "lead" to get my left ear pierced, which I did. About a month after that, I was walking down a paved trail to go home. I usually walked on the right side, but today chose to walk down the "Left Hand", as it were. She said, "Why be walking left side, HAH?" I said I was practicing to drive a London Taxi, when She said "Earring". I put my hand up to my ear, but even before my hand got there, She said, No, look down". Between my feet was a gold hoop earring, 4mmx20mm, just like the "wedding ring" I wore on my left middle finger for Her. . It finally hit me....She had enacted, although it took some time, a marraige ceremony. I was bound to Her through an energy exchange five days after She came to me, so this seemed to merely be a formality....But I belong to Her.

 

Just a little background.

[Ellinas]

Provided you are happy with your experience, that is all that matters.

[FlowerDemon]

I have an altar and I am devoted to one specific goddess, even though i remain open minded to the possibilities. I do mostly meditations, and sometimes leave offerings such as herbs and water, and leave them on the altar after the meditation ritual and later on pour them into the earth as my offering to her. Of course I also use tools such as candles, incense, smudge sticks, stones, etc for specific purposes, such as healing for example. 

 

Sometimes I do the whole casting the circle, calling the 4 elements, etc...but most of the time I do this:

 

1. clearing my mind through meditation
2. asking my goddess for her presence if she so desires, focusing on her image and what my relationship with her means
3. Cleansing my tools of any negative energies (usually with water and sea salt) and filling each tool with energies of desired outcome (example I consecrate a candle with energies of healing, so i only use it during healing rituals, and ask my goddess to bless my tool and for it to be set for that specific purpose)
4. Invite her prescence. I'll do this by keeping a calm focused mind while saying "I invite you to be here during this ritual. This is in my devotion to you" or something like that. Sometimes I leave offerings.
5. Continue meditating on her presence. During this time I may also be praying either outloud or silently, chanting, and visualising my body and mind taking in her love when i breathe in, and visualizing myself breathing out smoke (negativity, distracitons, etc) when I exhale. (or similar visualizations)
6. If I have a specific ritual I'm doing, such as making a satchet, I will announce my purpose and reason and ask for her presence to be near while i do my work.
7. I'll go back to meditating, prayer, etc, and when I feel that my ritual is coming to a close, I'll thank my goddess, let myself meditate for a few minutes, and slowly open my eyes, allowing myself to slowly return to reality.

I have found that improvised rituals devoted to her have been much more effective and heart-felt then writing one out first and then doing it. I'll usually write down what I improvised after i complete the ritual for later reference, in my journal (or book of shadows, if u call it that)

 

My worship to my goddess involves admiration, thankfulness/gratitude, and prayers...but it also relies on my efforts to work on myself, and to put in effort to focus. aka not to just cry for mercy for a god to fix my problems, and sitting around not making the effort on my own. In my belief, affirming the worth of my goddess is also affirming my own worth, because I feel her in my soul and she symbolizes all of nature (is the embodiment, symbolic image of nature) And of course since I'm part of the nature on earth, I'm affirming my inner strength, worth, and potential. So therefore, not only am I devoted to my Goddess, but I am devoted in and have love and respect for myself.

[Bhim]

I'm curious, because in a lot of the pagan communities I've tried to break into on other platforms the majority of the people there have a deity that they worship or at least pay tribute to. Personally I've been too burnt by Christianity and I don't want to commit myself to anyone right now. But if you do worship, how does that work for you? Do you have an altar? Do you leave offerings?

 

I'm really just wondering because while I have an altar it's more of a general thing, and I'm just trying to get a better grips on things.

Hi knightcore. Let me try and answer your questions.

 

I do have an altar, and I leave what one might call offerings. I'm Hindu, born and raised (I spent six years as an evangelical Christian, hence my presence here), so this is why I'm part of an established religion instead of paganism.

 

Here's the funny part: at the moment I don't actually believe in God. My wife does, and she does all of these rituals in a more precise fashion than I ever could. She even prepares prasadam (our version of offerings, usually fruits and Indian desserts) and offers them to God. Personally I find it helpful to practice an ancient and well-defined tradition rather than making stuff up as I go along. One day my religious practice may lead to actual belief, but even if not, at least I'm somehow continuing an established system.

 

Please don't take this as a suggestion that you should look into Hinduism. It's worked for me, your milage may vary.

[Mindmaster]

I think in the truest sense spirituality is self-created and self-instructed. As for as methods it's not just about doing things, but more doing things that are meaningful for you. Some pagans might pray to a god(dess) and some may see things in a much more pantheistic light where the spiritual manifestation is all around and throughout them. There just really aren't any fast and hard rules in these cases, and really it is just going to require a great deal of research. But, there is no need for ritual tools if you can make those connections via your own heart and mind -- they are just props and mood setting devices and it shouldn't be seen as a critical component. Many people feel such things are pretense, and just stuff others have seen in movies or are otherwise inauthentic.

 

Some Druids, for example, are monotheist, polytheist, or don't even specify anything out side of nature to worship. That's just the variation within one religious group, and I am sure you can see similar things across other groups. You should spend a bunch of time reading before choosing a spiritual path and the one that is right for you will resonate throughout your being -- it is really simple as that. If you don't find that magical bond with one religion or the next keep exploring, and know that even if you don't find one that is perfectly fine as well. Never accept anything you don't know to be true and logical. It must make sense to you most of all!

[FlowerDemon]

I think in the truest sense spirituality is self-created and self-instructed. As for as methods it's not just about doing things, but more doing things that are meaningful for you. Some pagans might pray to a god(dess) and some may see things in a much more pantheistic light where the spiritual manifestation is all around and throughout them. There just really aren't any fast and hard rules in these cases, and really it is just going to require a great deal of research. But, there is no need for ritual tools if you can make those connections via your own heart and mind -- they are just props and mood setting devices and it shouldn't be seen as a critical component. Many people feel such things are pretense, and just stuff others have seen in movies or are otherwise inauthentic.

 

Some Druids, for example, are monotheist, polytheist, or don't even specify anything out side of nature to worship. That's just the variation within one religious group, and I am sure you can see similar things across other groups. You should spend a bunch of time reading before choosing a spiritual path and the one that is right for you will resonate throughout your being -- it is really simple as that. If you don't find that magical bond with one religion or the next keep exploring, and know that even if you don't find one that is perfectly fine as well. Never accept anything you don't know to be true and logical. It must make sense to you most of all!

i agree, tools definitely aren't really needed if you can make the connection with your heart and mind. They kind of help set the focus for me, because they have a sacred purpose that is special to me. Lately I have been going out in nature doing meditations to my goddess without any tools, and I have found I've connected to Her more that way then being indoors at my altar. It is pretty much self-created and self-instructed. You do what feels right for you and makes sense to you. There is no dogma or set of rules to abide by. You do what benefits you.