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Goodbye Jesus

Question: Why Did You Leave


GuyGone

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I'm a pastor who gave up on God.  I wrote an e-book about my journey, if you want to see it, do a search for "Divorcing God by Guy Gone" on Amazon.  But what I want to do here is find out how people left their faith.  I read some of the things here and see parallels with my own story.  But it seems there are some almost binary divisions in how people leave their faith.  So here are some questions I'd like to see responses to from other people:

 

Did you leave your faith because of one big "if this is true, there can't be a God" moment?  Or was it an accumulation of doubts that overloaded the ship of faith and made impossible for it to stay afloat?  For me it was one big, somewhat complex event that started an avalanche of doubt.

 

How long did it take you to really let go?  Months? Years?  And if you hung on for a while, as I did, was it because of fear that God might be real and might be really ticked?  Was it because, like me, you really wanted it to be true even though you were finding it harder and harder to hang on?  Was it because you were hoping that God would somehow show up in an unambiguous way and "save the day"?

 

Were you mostly disappointed with God or more angry with God just before you left?

 

Finally, did you have genuine experiences that seemed to be God and that you had to let go of to let go of God?  Or was letting go of God more a result of never having that genuine, unquestionable experience that made God real?

 

I know that not everyone who is questioning is going to write their complete journey, and some haven't finished the trip yet.  But I am curious to know, even for those who don't want to write a lot, how these things factor into the journey and how you got to where you are now (wherever that is).

 

I look forward to reading your replies.

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I was in love with Jesus. I was also a recorded worship leader of charismaniac ilk.

 

I left because I discovered that I had the wrong beliefs. I discovered that god was not imminent, near, intervening, caring or powerful. God is a lie we tell ourselves. Eventually, the cognitive dissonance was too much and my brain broke. I could no longer gloss over the glaring problems and misfitting pieces of the puzzle of faith.

 

I regret every second I spent drinking and bathing in the Kool-aid of Christianity! What a waste!

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There were a lot of little bumps along the way that slowly wore away at my faith.  It's hard to say exactly when by break from Christianity began but with each of these bumps reality did not match what the Bible led me to believe.  The final straw that made me reject Christianity was the way Christian preachers reacted to the 2010 Haiti Earthquake.  Thousands were dead and televangelists blamed it on God's anger burning against Voodoo.  Up to that point I had never been more ashamed of Christianity. 

 

I tried to be a deist for a while but my beliefs continued to conflict with reality until I finally accepted that gods are man made.  From ex-Christian to atheist took less than two years.

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* Accumulation of doubt.

* Took years to let go because I just couldn't fathom that there was no god, probably because I had been taught from birth that he existed.

* Felt nothing for God by the time I left. I had spent all my anger on him through years of failed prayer requests and silence.

* Had two supernatural experiences -one an awareness of an evil presence in my bedroom as a college student, and the other a feeling of someone putting their hand on my shoulder from behind and pointing to something I was supposed to pay special attention to. Held on to those two experiences for years as proof until cognitive dissonance and a better understanding of psychology helped me to see the truth of those experiences. My husband actually lost his faith as a result of having NEVER had any response from God to his years of prayers asking God to make himself known to him.

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Yes, one thing that has bothered me and bothers a friend is the inconsistency of who God seems to pay attention to.  I read Strobel's book "The Case For Grace" and I was struck that many books of that type tell of God pursuing the down-and-out, those at rock bottom, those who seem to be running from God, Those who have been oppressed, abused, mistreated, and rejected.  Addicts, victims, emotionally injured, and others who are desperate in some way.  In other words, those with deep emotional scars or sometimes real dysfunction.  But when mature, well-adjusted people try to find God (instead of waiting for God to find them), they get only silence.  It's almost as if God were one of those people who are drawn to the hurt, but not to the well-adjusted, because the well-adjusted aren't desperate for love, acceptance, etc.  As if God only likes those who are "messed up" in some way.  You would want a God to love everyone who is messed up or broken or dealing with huge hurts. But you wouldn't want a God who rejects everyone else. 

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For me it started with how nasty Christians can be to one another. That lead to questions: If the holy spirit is supposed to be so powerful and capable of leading/changing people, do we have such bitter divides in the supposed body of Christ? Why can two different congregations of believers claim absolute truth through both the bible and the holy spirit, yet both accuse each other of being "wrong" and "deceived"? Either one is wrong or they both are. 

 

The rejection and pain from supposed brothers and sisters, questions about this divide led to other questions and doubt. For a year or two I struggled to answer these questions - until about 5 months ago I said "enough. I can't buy into this anymore" and officially labeled myself an atheist. And oddly enough, I found a lot more peace giving up God than I ever did accepting him.

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Did you leave your faith because of one big "if this is true, there can't be a God" moment?  Or was it an accumulation of doubts that overloaded the ship of faith and made impossible for it to stay afloat?  For me it was one big, somewhat complex event that started an avalanche of doubt.

I quit Christianity twice. The first time I was in college. I became aware that the only reason I believed in Christianity was childhood indoctrination. I wanted one of those born again experiences where I could speak in tongues to confirm the existence of God. I also wanted God to help me live-up to his strict sexual standards. After a couple of years, I decided that if God existed then He must not like me. I did not have evidence against God, so I wasn't a very strong atheist.

 

More recently I had a psychotic break and became 100% certain that God existed. After a few months, I started having fewer hallucinations, but I interpreted this to mean that God was disappointed with me. I became more and more extreme in my efforts in hopes that I could have more "visions". I wanted God to help me find a way to join a monastery, because I wanted to escape my life. Failing that, I wanted God to help me be happy and loving in my situation. Again, no help from God. I stopped going to church after only 2 years, but I have been educating myself about psychology and religious skepticism for almost 4 years. I'm still not done.

 

How long did it take you to really let go?  Months? Years?  And if you hung on for a while, as I did, was it because of fear that God might be real and might be really ticked?  Was it because, like me, you really wanted it to be true even though you were finding it harder and harder to hang on?  Was it because you were hoping that God would somehow show up in an unambiguous way and "save the day"?

See above. Fear was a big factor in keeping me in the faith even after I had doubts.

 

Were you mostly disappointed with God or more angry with God just before you left?

Disappointed.

 

Finally, did you have genuine experiences that seemed to be God and that you had to let go of to let go of God?  Or was letting go of God more a result of never having that genuine, unquestionable experience that made God real?

Yes, I still have trouble reconciling my experiences with my skepticism. Ironically, the experience I cherish the most is the easiest to dismiss. This experience was simply a beautiful dream where God seemed to tell me everything is going to be o.k. Another experience was where God seemed to answer my prayer to strike me with lightning LOL (obviously he didn't actually hit me wink.png ). I like to think maybe a higher power exists somehow, but why would he talk to me and not others?
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Yes, one thing that has bothered me and bothers a friend is the inconsistency of who God seems to pay attention to.  I read Strobel's book "The Case For Grace" and I was struck that many books of that type tell of God pursuing the down-and-out, those at rock bottom, those who seem to be running from God, Those who have been oppressed, abused, mistreated, and rejected.  Addicts, victims, emotionally injured, and others who are desperate in some way.  In other words, those with deep emotional scars or sometimes real dysfunction.  But when mature, well-adjusted people try to find God (instead of waiting for God to find them), they get only silence.  It's almost as if God were one of those people who are drawn to the hurt, but not to the well-adjusted, because the well-adjusted aren't desperate for love, acceptance, etc.  As if God only likes those who are "messed up" in some way.  You would want a God to love everyone who is messed up or broken or dealing with huge hurts. But you wouldn't want a God who rejects everyone else. 

 

If this particular god only exists in the minds of believers, and if believers tend to populate certain groups, then it would not be surprising if it appears as if this particular god spends more effort with those certain groups.

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I left Christianity because of the lack of evidence for God's existence, ultimately. I have a hard time making myself believe things because I want to; I have to be truly convinced one way or the other. I slowly came to realize I was just trying to justify being Christian when I could not argue with the evidence and proofs offered against it; the arguments offered by Christians in favor of the religion just didn't hold up against those. It had nothing to do with being angry at God, just coming to realize that God doesn't exist to begin with.

 

It took many years, and I went back to Christianity several times, usually for emotional reasons, or also because I expected to find the same proffered surety and dogmatic reassurances outside Christianity as I found within it; I was Catholic, and the Church does a great job of making you believe it has all the answers for the meaning of life and the truth of its claims. It took a long time, but I could not argue with the evidence offered against Christianity, and also could not deny that the morality preached by the religion in general was much more malevolent and less altruistic than that found outside the religion, particularly amongst freethinkers. Liberal, secular, progressive values are more inclusive and less divisive, more so that what I found in Christianity. 

I just could not believe a lie, anymore.

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Yes, one of the things I wrote in my book is that nobody can prove that God doesn't exist but only God can prove he does.

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All these replies make me think of another question: What was the hardest thing about leaving?  For me, it was letting my wife, who is a devout Christian, read my book before I published it on Amazon.  I wasn't sure what she'd do.  The good news is that she didn't start hating me or anything.

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I never doubted the existence of god. Lots of cognitive dissonance, but god was never doubted. In one night, when I was confronted with the idea that there really wasn't a god (a possibility that had never crossed my mind), all my faith vanished and everything just made sense. There really is no god. Wow! Ok then. So one night.

 

No anger or disappointment with god. Just with myself for being so stupid all those years. As for spiritual experiences, I consider them emotional experiences. I can see it from this side and realize it was all emotional.

 

The hardest part initially was telling my husband. Not knowing how he would respond. He is now agnostic after doing his own searching. The hardest part now is that I lost my relationship with my closest sister. But I can see how that may have actually been a good thing. It just makes me angry that she stopped having anything to do with me because I don't believe anymore.

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Blindsighted: I like your "hardest part", it is a mirror image of mine.  Maybe this tells us that if the relationship can be broken over a difference of belief, the relationship wasn't very solid to begin with.  Spouses who can accept us after such a decisions (maybe disagree, but accept it) are relating on some other level than just religious agreement.  Relatives who reject us completely over that have kind of a Muslim view of Christianity (we become the Christian version of infidels) and there probably was something shallow about the relationship to begin with.  At least on their side of it.  Maybe I'm not giving them enough credit.

 

I think a lot of Christians (and I mention this in the book) have a faith that is like believing in Bigfoot.  As long as it doesn't affect your life too much, as long as it's just a path to making sound relationship, financial, or life decisions based on moral principles, it isn't a problem.  But when you start spending all your vacation time at Bigfoot conferences and you start giving a lot of money to Bigfoot hunters, then you're getting close to the edge.

 

The difference between Bigfoot and God is that sometimes, some of us make a leap of faith in God and realize there is nobody there.  As long as you can attribute good things to God, it isn't a problem, even if they are things that would have happened anyway. But when we trust God for something that really requires God, something that falls apart if it "wouldn't happen anyway", then faith is destroyed.  People who never do that aren't in any danger of losing their faith because the faith isn't based on anything objectively real, so it doesn't really matter all that much. Which is probably why there are so many normal, well-adjusted, educated people who are Christians.  They just haven't ever depended on God for anything that really matters, so their faith has never been objectively tested.  As long as you have a casual belief in bigfoot based on grainy pictures, but that belief doesn't change any decisions you would otherwise make, it's harmless.  Useless, but harmless.

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Basically I was an agnostic who only started going to church and accepted Christ when I got married to a lifelong Christian. After the divorce I didnt go back to her church. I tried to go to another church off and on for a year or so but really did not have that much interest. Got tired of the shame, guilt and fear that the Pentecostals instilled into me so I told God goodbye.

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I grew up in a really religious family but the whole affair never really sat well with me. It never made sense and that bothered me as far back as I can remember. I definitely believed what I was told as a kid but it never felt right. I would try and reason all of the conflicting stories of the bible out in my head, try to picture and imagine how it all fit together. But it didn't. I think that if I had only heard one version of the truth, one explanation to my questions even if it didn't make sense, I would have stayed under the illusion for a while longer, maybe my whole life. But even within the strictest christian environment, there are so many different interpretations of "the truth" being thrown around that it becomes fairly obvious that no one actually can say they know the real story. So to start, 

 

  • Conflicting bible stories
  • Conflicting interpretations

My mother is an example of a pretty damaged person. Neurotic, hysterical, abusive, obsessive, controlling, needy, just... anyway she is also an extremely devout believer. everything about her life is god, god, god. all the time. she proselytizes every time she gets the chance. Does daily bible study and volunteers. she is now gong to school for apologetics and a bunch of other stuff, at the age of 60 so she can work with damaged kids and bring them to god.As a kid I would look at her and think, if all that it takes to make a christian is belief, and that belief is supposed to make you a better person who does better things, why is my mother so utterly terrible? She sees herself as this kind gentle sweet person, and sees the world as a big, bad evil place, universally. Neither belief is true. Belief doesn't change anything about a person, it just changes how they feel about the world and themselves. It molds to fit their pathology. Which reveals the fallibility of 

 

  • Faith

Faith, or the idea of it, was oddly enough, one of the most glaringly false ideas in christianity to me. Faith is supposed to move mountains, Faith is supposed to change lives, in the bible it allows tiny groups of men to overcome armies, parts the sea, feeds thousands of hungry people. All I observed faith doing was convincing people that their car running on fumes far enough to get them to church when their tank was empty was a "miracle" That when a little girl dies of cancer, it's a "miracle" that god took her peacefully in her sleep, not just a stoke of luck, a "miracle" a "miracle" every little thing that happens is a "miracle".When you believe something because you  are told that FAITH is your ticket to heaven,  you look for reasons to believe it, instead of scrutinizing the stories you are told, wondering, why is it that there are no noticeable miraculous events today even for people who truly believe, events that change the whole world, or even one small part of it. No voices from heaven, audible to the masses, no parting of seas, no noah's arc to spirit away the animals facing extinction, no documentable heavenly intervention on any level, for anyone, even the most devout and innocent. And anyone I asked, what was their answer? Have faith................... NO. I refuse. I couldn't if I tried. 

                 Also pretty notable how faith doesn't work as a virtue. Die for others? "nope, not enough, gotta have faith." Feed the hungry? "nope."  Clothe the naked? "nope still not enough." Never hurt others only do good live as a celibate pacifist? "Nope, shoulda had faith, sorry, you're doomed for hell. This warlord over here though, my man king David, he's just the best. He's so devout, He steals other people's wives and has them killed, he is a usurper, manipulator, a thief and a murderer, hes just so human and relatable, plus he has faith, you know... should have been more like him."

 

  • pride

The claim that you need to be humble always bothered me. I mean arrogance is bad, but pride can be healthy. What drives you but a sense of satisfaction with your accomplishments???

 

what made it hard to leave: Fear of the end coming and being left behind. I was aware that the whole system was wrong and irrational, but I stayed in the dark for many years because of this, feeling afraid to even RESEARCH the subject for myself objectively because of the feelings it brought up. Feeling afraid alone at night, thinking I no longer had god's blessing, (if he existed) and thus no protection from demons or the devil, if they existed, fear of hell, etc. Finding this site really helped in squashing the very last bit of my fear in a very final way. Anyway that's all I can think of for now.

 

 

I never was angry or hopeful about god. I eventually just came to the realization that god was my fear. I would say it was less an accumulation of doubt and more like a long, inevitable journey out of a maze. I never really believed. I just didn't know anything else. So I kept looking.

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Did you leave your faith because of one big "if this is true, there can't be a God" moment?  Or was it an accumulation of doubts that overloaded the ship of faith and made impossible for it to stay afloat?  For me it was one big, somewhat complex event that started an avalanche of doubt.

 

For me was an accumulation of problems found in the Bible.

 

The short version: Seeing contradictions between the Gospels made me realize that the Bible is not perfectly accurate, and then seeing how the Gospel writers fabricated prophetic fulfillments by taking Old Testament quotes completely out of context made me realize that the story is contrived and completely unreliable. Then, once the blinders of indoctrination were removed, I was able to see other Bible problems for what they really were (absurdities, justified cruelties, etc.).

 

The long version: See the letter I wrote my parents, which is attached to the 13th post in the thread linked in my signature, as well as my extimony, which is the other thread linked in my signature.

 

How long did it take you to really let go?  Months? Years?  And if you hung on for a while, as I did, was it because of fear that God might be real and might be really ticked?  Was it because, like me, you really wanted it to be true even though you were finding it harder and harder to hang on?  Was it because you were hoping that God would somehow show up in an unambiguous way and "save the day"?

 

For me it was a matter of months from my first doubts until I couldn't believe it at all anymore. I wanted Christianity to be true, since it was the only worldview I'd known up until then, but I recognized that truth is not dependent upon what I personally want. Truth was what I valued the most, and Christianity was turning out to be sorely lacking in that department, so I had no choice but to let go of it. (I did continue going to church for a while after I stopped believing, because of my wife, but I eventually couldn't stomach it anymore.)

 

Were you mostly disappointed with God or more angry with God just before you left?

 

No more than I could be disappointed or angry with the Tooth Fairy. However, I was disappointed with how I had been deceived by a false religion that was completely man-made.

 

Finally, did you have genuine experiences that seemed to be God and that you had to let go of to let go of God?  Or was letting go of God more a result of never having that genuine, unquestionable experience that made God real?

 

I definitely had experiences that I had attributed to God. Those experiences seemed very real at the time, but they weren't anything that couldn't be explained as being conjured up in my own mind, so they didn't really serve to counterbalance the hard-core truths I was discovering that undermined the claims of Christianity.

 

All these replies make me think of another question: What was the hardest thing about leaving?  For me, it was letting my wife, who is a devout Christian, read my book before I published it on Amazon.  I wasn't sure what she'd do.  The good news is that she didn't start hating me or anything.

 

For me it was two things. First, since I had never operated from a different worldview, losing Christianity made me feel like the ground had been yanked from under my feet and I had nowhere to get a foothold. That was a very depressing time for me.

 

The second thing was knowing that I would be misunderstood by family and friends who are still believers. They cannot allow themselves to consider the possibility that Christianity may not be true, so they would have to erroneously assume that my leaving the faith was because I was either deluded or defiant (or both). I don't like false accusations, but it's inevitable in this scenario.

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Citsonga: Thanks for replying, I did read your letter after posting this topic. 

 

Where are your parents with your journey right now?  If you don't mind me asking.  I think the last post in that thread was quite some time ago, unless I missed one.

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Citsonga: Thanks for replying, I did read your letter after posting this topic. 

 

Where are your parents with your journey right now?  If you don't mind me asking.  I think the last post in that thread was quite some time ago, unless I missed one.

 

Not much happened with regard to that until this past August, at which time my dad stated pestering me with text messages. Here is a thread about that conversation: http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/69348-text-messages-from-dad/

 

A week or two after that texting exchange ended, I received two single paged letters from my parents. The letters did not address a single problem I had raised in my very detailed letter, but instead just recounted some of their personal experiences that they see as confirming their faith. As far as evidence goes, those experiences are pretty flimsy, as they easily have other explanations.

 

For example, the first experience my dad recounted was that he saw Jesus depicted in the clouds one time over 40 years ago. Well, first off, how would he know what Jesus actually looked like? Secondly, even if it looked like the standard Jesus of artists' illustrations, we humans are good at pattern recognition and often see resemblances in the clouds. Third, I once saw a cloud formation that looked like Buddha, so by dad's line of reasoning, I should be a Buddhist. Fourth, I've seen a picture of a dog's ass that looked like Jesus with his arms stretched out, but I'm sure that my dad wouldn't find doggy-ass Jesus inspirational!

 

There was nothing in the letters any more convincing than that. I decided not to respond to the letters unless they try to push it, but so far the issue hasn't come up again.

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Citsonga: Sometimes it's best to just say where you're at but not try to convince anyone, as I'm sure you know.  I have a lot of friends and family members who don't know where I'm at, which is the reason I published the Amazon book under a pseudonym. My wife specifically asked me not to bring it up to our (grown) kids, which I wouldn't have done anyway. I just don't see it as my mission to deconvert anyone.  I've left churches because they were unhealthy but I haven't tried to take anybody with me; people need to reach those conclusions on their own unless there is something like child molestation or embezzlement going on. I don't even try to convince my wife, although I do explain how I reached where I am if she asks me something specific.  I can still give all the pastoral, Biblical answers to faith questions (although now I tend to make things very practical when people ask me questions; the book of Proverbs still has some very good life wisdom).  Whether in or out, I suspect few people change their faith because they lost an argument. Unless it's an argument with themselves.

 

Whether Christian believer or non-believer, we're all susceptible to confirmation bias.  I think that's part of the reason it takes so long for those of us raised and saturated in faith to wade out; we're in pretty deep water when we start.

 

You're right about pattern recognition; our bedroom has a textured ceiling.  With the ceiling light on, I can lie on the bed, look at the ceiling, and see "faces" almost any day.  I've seen a fox, a space alien (round head, big eyes), a long-nosed movie bad guy, and numerous other variations of human and animal faces.  It "works" best at night when t here isn't any daylight from the window to mess up the patterns of shadows.

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Citsonga: Sometimes it's best to just say where you're at but not try to convince anyone, as I'm sure you know.  I have a lot of friends and family members who don't know where I'm at, which is the reason I published the Amazon book under a pseudonym. My wife specifically asked me not to bring it up to our (grown) kids, which I wouldn't have done anyway. I just don't see it as my mission to deconvert anyone.

 

Same here. I've never brought the issue up with my family (other than some initial talks with my wife, which I think were necessary). Every exchange I've had with my parents on this topic has been started by my dad. Even my long letter wasn't really an attempt to change their minds (I especially knew that my dad wouldn't be swayed anyway), but rather just a response designed to demonstrate that it wasn't something that I took lightly. My position was well thought out.

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Did you leave your faith because of one big "if this is true, there can't be a God" moment?  Or was it an accumulation of doubts that overloaded the ship of faith and made impossible for it to stay afloat?  For me it was one big, somewhat complex event that started an avalanche of doubt.

 

How long did it take you to really let go?  Months? Years?  And if you hung on for a while, as I did, was it because of fear that God might be real and might be really ticked?  Was it because, like me, you really wanted it to be true even though you were finding it harder and harder to hang on?  Was it because you were hoping that God would somehow show up in an unambiguous way and "save the day"?

 

Were you mostly disappointed with God or more angry with God just before you left?

 

Finally, did you have genuine experiences that seemed to be God and that you had to let go of to let go of God?  Or was letting go of God more a result of never having that genuine, unquestionable experience that made God real?

 

I am curious to know, even for those who don't want to write a lot, how these things factor into the journey and how you got to where you are now (wherever that is).

1. It was more just me sitting staring at the ceiling one inconsequential day and thinking.... "Hm, there probably isn't a god, is there?" Then I thought about going to McDonald's for a McDouble (I call them Mcdoobles because then the workers know it's me and I get a shit ton of pickles on my burger) and a soda (I pronounce it So-der, the second verification to smother my shit in pickles).

 

2. I had moments in the past with stuff like that. I also moved around. Went from Lutheran to Buddhist to Sufi to Pagan to Atheist to this, that, and everything else. I remember buying the Avesta and thinking, "ahhhh, originality." And so I was Zoroastrian for a day until I realized I was being a stereotypical Westerner not knowing shit and pretending to be something from somewhere else to be "authentic." And if there is one thing I am not, it's a goddamn hippie. Anywho, it was more or less a week that was really inconsequential, where I sat down and thought... "I've been going to church every week.... Why?"

 

3. I wasn't really anything. I was curious. About other things. I even looked into Ignosticism, and found I liked it. Then I became curious about the linguistics and philosophy of the definition of deity. So it wasn't anger, disappointment, or anything. It was like after I found out Santa was a historical person, but died a long time ago, I went and bought a book on him and read it. For context I was one nerdy snot-nosed brat as a kid.

 

4. Never had a religious experience, except for Paganism. I was wondering if Odin was real, then two crows came and landed right by my window and looked at me. That was pretty cool. Not so sure it's conclusive evidence for the existence of Odin, but I believed it for a week. I'm constantly working on decreasing my credulity.

 

5. Eh, nothing really factored into it more than others.... In all honesty it was Reza Aslan's Zealot that helped get me to the point that I felt comfortable being non-Christian, and got me thinking further about deity. He's a moderate Muslim, but he writes really well, and I liked what he had to show about the historical Jesus of Nazareth, and also dispelling myths. I'm not a scholar and I will never pretend to be, but I appreciate good arguments that are put into common language. I still haven't read any of the great atheists like Dawkins or anybody else and I probably never will, but I appreciate they probably have great arguments. For me, it's just a matter of being honest to myself. Plus I don't want to force religion on my kids because I think it'll make them better. If I have kids I want them to be good for the sake of being good, and instilling that will be my responsibility. Unless they're just awful. Then I'll make 'em go to Baptist or Mormon churches and then I'm sure that'll freak 'em out enough to behave.

 

All these replies make me think of another question: What was the hardest thing about leaving?  For me, it was letting my wife, who is a devout Christian, read my book before I published it on Amazon.  I wasn't sure what she'd do.  The good news is that she didn't start hating me or anything.

 

For me it's looking at old photos and being sad. Or seeing religious objects and wanting a reality that never even really was. My mom's the most traditionally religious, but she will never go to church and never wants to, and never will. Yet she can't stand other churches or religions, except Buddhism, Methodists, Presbyterians, Catholics, and any non-modern or evangelical-y churches. She thinks mormonism is as bad as scientology and wants 'em both extinguished. She's super Lutheran, but she's not a super Lutheran, if that makes sense. I'll never tell her I'm not, but pretty much everyone knows how I feel and what I think. It's just not a big deal. No one usually hates on you, unless you preface, "Hi I'm an atheist!," with "I'm such a hard-core Democrat, Go Hillary!" Then you get sucker punched. That goes for whatever religion you could be as well. Saying you're a Muslim goes over a lot better if you say you're a Trump fan first, or a Rubio fan, or whatever. But God help you if you say you're a Democrat and a Muslim. Needless to say the only difficulty I've had with being non-Christian is only ever self-inflicted. And whenever I feel sad I get happy because it gives me an excuse to buy Vodka.

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My journey out of religion took many years. It began in the late 90's and ended around 2010, but I still didn't sever my membership until 2012. It came about due to an accumulation of many things mostly having to do with the inconsistencies & contradictions that are replete throughout the Bible.

 

Those Biblical issues led me to begin a multi year study & research of the history of religion & Christianity. That study lead me to read a number of books written by Historical Critical scholars like Bart Ehrman, Robert Price, Elaine Pagels, and many others. Their books convinced me the Bible isn't literally or historically true. When I became convinced the Bible wasn't true my faith melted away.

 

The most difficult part of leaving the church was the complete loss of our social structure & dealing with my wife who is still a believer. I have since then at least convinced her the Bible isn't literally true. She left her fundy church and placed membership with a liberal Christian group. I can tolerate liberal Christians so her continuing to be a believer isn't a major problem now.

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Geezer: It took me a long time, 2-3 years or maybe more, depending on whether you mark the start as when I had serious doubts or when I really started moving away.  Technically I guess I'm still "in" because my denominational credentials haven't expired (I don't expect to renew them this year, obviously). My wife did ask me to explain more of where I'm at today at lunch and I reiterated what I posted here earlier: Nobody can prove God doesn't exist, only God can prove he does.  I said that it's like a person who asks to be trusted; first they have to demonstrate some trustworthy behavior.  The more trust they demand, the more evidence you should expect. We discussed a lot of the ways we've seen God seem to do nothing when doing something would build trust.  She didn't suddenly swing around to agnosticism, but she did agree with a lot of what I said.  But if she stays a Christian forever, I won't feel like I've lost a battle or anything, because convincing her isn't my goal.  In that sense, I guess I'm "religious" because I've learned not to bash my head against walls that I can't move.  I learned doing pastoral counseling that when someone doesn't want to accept reality, I can't do it for them.  If one spouse doesn't want to work on a marriage, I can't fix it for them.  People only change when they accept that something is wrong with the status quo.

 

I think (and, again, I put this in the book) that the first two chapters of the book of Job are really problematic for God, at least as we teach God's existence today. 

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I'm a pastor who gave up on God.  I wrote an e-book about my journey, if you want to see it, do a search for "Divorcing God by Guy Gone" on Amazon.

 

Out of curiosity, are you still a pastor? If so, how long do you see yourself continuing as one?

 

It took me a long time, 2-3 years or maybe more, depending on whether you mark the start as when I had serious doubts or when I really started moving away.  Technically I guess I'm still "in" because my denominational credentials haven't expired (I don't expect to renew them this year, obviously). 

 

This makes it seem like you may have already stepped down, or at least will be soon because of allowing your credentials to expire. If you have left, then what kind of work are you doing now? Or if you plan to leave soon, do you have something else in the works?

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Citsonga: I was never a paid pastor, I've always been employed elsewhere.  It let me be an associate pastor at churches that couldn't afford an associate pastor.  And, yes, we left the last church where I was an associate pastor, although my leaving Christianity was only part of the reason (there were also some unhealthy things happening).   For various reasons, we stayed at the church after I had decided God didn't exist (or didn't care - there is quite a bit in the book about how that plays out).  But I'm really big on integrity, so I left as soon as it was practical to do so (after I had finished my commitments). Part of the reason is because I just didn't want to be teaching lies.

 

For employment, I'm a scientist - specifically an engineer.  I was one of those people that I mentioned in an earlier post who could drift, even as a pastor, because nothing in my life really depended on faith.  We always say that it does and I think believe that it does, but it really doesn't.  That is, we believe God is "leading" us to do something, but we'd be able to decide the same thing on our own, given a similar worldview.  Where it really fell apart for me was when I felt "led" to really trust God for something only God could do - and God did absolutely nothing.  But even then it took a while for me to acknowledge that it not only hadn't happened, but wasn't ever going to.  In the church, we give a lot of credit to God for things that are beneficial, but not necessarily God.  I call it "making excuses" for God.  We can't see anything that is indisputably God, so we "read" God into ordinary events.  So our faith is not really based on anything measurable. When it became measurable, when something really depended on God keeping a promise (as opposed to interpreting events as God's action) is when I realized that inaction is the norm.

 

I don't think most Christians ever really put their faith to the test in a way that couldn't be anything but God.  That is, we read God into events that happen, but we never really take the kind of chance on God in such a way that continuing in faith depends on God doing something real.  Instead, we have faith that is really superstition wrapped up in Christian terminology.

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