Stuck: Prophecy, Witchcraft & Tongues

[ExhaustedTee]

Hello, 

 

Been lurking here as a non-member and then (finally) a member.

This entire platform has been of more help to me than I can say which I'm quite thankful for (please forgive possible punctuation, grammatical errors).

 

I've been 'de-converting' for about 2-3 years now, a story not very different from a lot of yours, but which I think warrants a little backstory.

I was raised in a legally declared christian nation, into a devout christian home, with both parents having gone to bible school for qualifications in theology.

My dad went on to be an evangelical reverend for the Nazarene and assemblies of god denominations; my siblings and I had a humble but relatively happy childhood, both our parents being loving and quite easy to talk to.

 

I first had doubts about christianity around the age of 8, i remember sitting out in the yard and wondering why my kind, loving parents were telling me lies about hell, and the creation of the universe (I eventually figured adults used it as a way to control children and decided not to question it).

 

My parents seperated and divorced when I was around 13/14, my siblings and I went with my mum while my dad moved out of the city and into a more rural setting. 

The divorce was hard on my mum, although she hid it well, she got heavy into fundamental pentecostalism; meaning we had a new, more charismatic pastor over for dinner every other week and visited 'prayer sanctuaries'.

 

At 15, I moved in with my grandmother and started to go to a more orthodox protestant church, I was in love with the structure of the sermons and the way everything flowed in the same way every sunday. I started to search for god in a brand new way, attending youth overnights, camps, meetings and groups.

One of the biggest issues I had was an inabillity to hear god, or 'feel him move', like my sister or friends could, this made me angry at myself and in turn made me try harder.

 

When I was about 21, I started to live with my mother again and slowly (and at her request) started to go to her radical pentecostal church. 

It must be noted that by radical I mean 8 hours of spirit and tongue filled, casting out of demons, detaching destinies from ancestral spirits, prophecy, crushing evil foundations and uncovering witchcraft in family trees.

My first Sunday there was a bizarre mix of curiosity and terror.

 

I found that even surrounded by all this holiness and holy ghost 'fire' I was unable to reach god or speak in tongues,  I kept being told how I needed to find a way for god to speak through me and give me the gift of tongues, but could not so instead I threw myself into working for god.

I joined the churches outreach team, working tirelessly and making friends and finding a sense of belonging.

 

This was great and quite fulfilling but did nothing for the doubts that came at night or the lack of faith that existed constantly.

Instead of leaving at that point, however, I took on more responsibility, bought more church uniforms, subscribed to newsletters and (even!) started to fake holy ghost manifestations.

 

After a winter of doubt and delayed teen-angst, I spent the summer of 23rd year reading most holy books, christian authors and atheist/agnostic material and finally admitted to myself that I do not and possibly have never believed in the god of the bible. 

Mentally, I'd never been happier.

 

I attempted to have this conversation with my mother about possibly taking a break from church, her response was that it was an unholy phase and I should speak to 'dad' (which is what we call our Pentecostal pastor).

My pastor let me know that something tragic was coming in 5 years if I did not stay close by, and he would not tolerate people leaving during the current spiritual season. 

 

fast-forward two years and I'm embarrassed to say that, although I'm through-and-through atheist, I haven't had the courage to leave. I keep telling myself that I will eventually;

or that I should hold on because I'm in my last year of law school and my mother pays my tuition;

or that it's not as bad as I think;

or I'll break my mums heart, or my sisters heart (or whoever's heart I can dredge up that week);

 

In short, I do not see myself leaving, because christianity is such an inescapable way of life here, this makes me feel stuck and a lot like a coward.

A little bit of a bleak end point but thanks for reading and for making this platform possible.

 

Thanks again.

 

 

[GuyGone]

One thing I have learned is that in some situations, the only way to be sure you didn't leave too soon is to leave a little too late.  I know a lot of people on this forum are going to say to leave now because this is unhealthy and controlling and whatnot.  But in your case, you have more than the church and your relationship to it to consider; it's whether you want to risk alienation from your family.

 

When we left our last church I was ready to go months before we actually left.  But I was waiting for my wife to reach the same conclusion (about leaving an unhealthy situation, not about God).  I could have insisted, and she would have gone with me, but it might have caused problems later.  As it is, the way I did it, she has said more than once that she's glad we're not there anymore. There isn't any resentment because we were both sure. In your case, you don't have to wait for your mom to see the light.  But you might want to wait until she is accepting that the church isn't for you or maybe isn't healthy overall.  The reason you don't want to leave too soon is because if it does cause a schism, you want to be sure it's worth it.  You want to be sure that if you do something that is relationally permanent, that it's worth the cost.  Note that you might decide that those things are exactly true - it is worth it.  But you want to be sure, or as sure as you reasonably can be.  If you end up with broken relationships, you don't want to regret triggering it by leaving.  You might regret the break, but you don't want to regret triggering it. (Note that "triggering" doesn't necessarily mean "your fault", but obviously you make a choice and that triggers choices by others).  It's your call, of course.

 

It might not be a question of staying or leaving, it might be a question of how quickly or slowly you disengage.  That is, it may not be a sharp break, it could be a process.  If your church is, as it seems, really into active engagement with the leading of God, you could start by saying something like "that may be where God is taking you.  I don't sense that it's where God is taking me.  I'm, not sure what the future for me is, but I'm pretty sure that's not it".  If God is telling you, who can argue, right?

 

If the pastor does something controlling, you might tell him (privately, not putting him on the spot in public) that you feel his suggestion is controlling.  Just be upfront about it.  I had to tell a pastor that once (being an unpaid associate pastor has its advantages; even if I get fired it doesn't impact my income).  Or if you think he won't listen (likely), just say that you don't see God leading you in that direction.

 

It's tempting to just say that you should lay it all out and tell the pastor, mom, sister, and whoever how wrong they are.  But you won't convince anyone that way.  But you might be able to tell your mom that "the pastor said I shouldn't leave, but I'm concerned that he's more interested in keeping (or controlling) people than he is about what's best for me".  Even if she thinks you're wrong, it's a viewpoint that she can grasp.

 

I've obviously never met your mom, but let me throw something out: When your dad left, everything she thought the Bible said about God's protection, direction, and influence was called into question.  A marital split in a marriage that is like the one your parents had calls a lot of things into question.  Some people get angry with God and turn away.  Others think "I needed to be more holy or more dedicated" or whatever.  It's like an abused wife who thinks "if I didn't make him mad or if I was sexier or whatever he wouldn't hit me so much".  It sounds like your mom took the approach that she needed to appease God more.  So think of it as her being really uncertain whether she's doing enough to appease God and get on his "good side".  That might change your perspective.  You might even ask her if she feels that God is happy with her and her level of dedication.  She may just not have thought about the fact that she'll never be doing enough because it's not God she's really trying to please.  Or maybe I'm completely wrong, I'm doing a little remote diagnosis based on what you've said.  A pastor who wants to be called "dad" is problematic in my mind, though.  That would set off all kinds of alarm bells for me.

[rjn]

That's one tough situation, and I hope you'll be able to live independently soon enough. Anyways, Welcome to ex-C, good you have you aboard!

[florduh]

I think it's never easy to leave and circumstances and timing are different for everyone. Eventually, though, you must live your life for yourself and not someone else. I hope your freedom can be realized soon.

[♦ Fuego ♦]

I know how very Christian it is in African countries, and the Pentecostal branches are by far the strongest. It is enhanced by the very popular superstitious views regarding witchcraft that abound in many of the people groups. This makes it much more difficult to leave, because it is EVERYWHERE. Everyone wants a magic fix for their problems, and to have an "in" with a more powerful kind of magic (in this case Jesus). The pastors are very often charismatic leaders with devoted followers, and the pastors can be very corrupt men who enjoy the power and prestige of being in charge. In Mozambique, one of them even raped the very young daughter of a missionary couple I knew. They did nothing to the pastor because they believe in turning the other cheek (I wanted blood, and still do).

 

I hope you can find your way out of the controlling culture in which you are currently trapped. Christianity is finally losing some of its power and prestige in the United States, and many radicals have gone to Africa to spread their hateful ways. If you get a chance to leave, do it. Being shunned and regarded as a devil by believers is a hard place to be. We all need a community of people we can trust and love.

[★ Citsonga ★]

Greetings, ExhaustedTee, and welcome! Thanks for sharing your story. It's great that you've seen through the sham of Christianity, but it certainly can be rough in dealing with close relationships with committed believers, especially family. I certainly wish you the best as you deal with your situation.

 

Here's something that stood out to me:

 

My pastor let me know that something tragic was coming in 5 years if I did not stay close by, and he would not tolerate people leaving during the current spiritual season.

 

It appears that your pastor is a controlling person. Instead of giving evidence to try to show that the religion is true, he's resorting to threats to try to keep you. Though I've never been to Africa and I don't know all the dynamics there, I have heard about how incredibly unsafe some areas are. I certainly hope that your pastor isn't a wacko who would actually orchestrate something tragic for you in order to "prove" his point.

 

Anyway, good luck as you deal with the difficult circumstances you're in.

[Lycorth]

Welcome to the forum!

 

Ultimately, I've been struggling with deconversion for the bulk of nine or ten years. In the early years, I didn't come out about my deconversion to my family for fear of hurting or confusing my parents, particularly my father. Now, my father wasn't overly devout and certainly wasn't zealous, but came from a Polish family, and had a very strong "cultural Catholic" belief. I didn't want to cause him hurt or upset by coming out about no longer being interested in the religion he held to; not causing distress to a kindly old man who loved me and did well by me as his son was more important than making a big deal about leaving Christianity. I had already left in my mind, so I was no longer psychologically enslaved to the Christian cult, and that was all that mattered. Also, as I was still adjusting to all the new information and perspectives that came along with deconversion, I had a very long time to go before I really confident enough to go public with my change in view. It took a long time not to allow myself to become an asshole on account of my disbelief.

 

Give yourself time; hopefully, you can leave home and be on your own soon enough, and at least then you might not have to waste time in church for the sake of preserving things with your family. But, on your own, you will be free to. Eventually, though, after you've adjusted to life as a non-Christian and all of the new information and perspectives that go along with it, you'll have to be forthright and open about what you are, because the power of Christianity over the minds of others will not be chipped away at until people come out with their disbelief in the religion.

 

But that's for later. Just focus on the here and now and on learning and coping. Don't try to build Rome in a day

[StephenW]

Hi ExhaustedTee,

GuyGone and Lycorth have both given you some really good advice. Don't be so hard on yourself, and don't think you have to rush the process. My counselor of 10 years told me over and over again, "You are at the place that you are supposed to be."

Best Wishes,

Stephen

[Abrooks2007]

Your situation is definitely a difficult one.

 

While I'd never consider 'manipulating the cirumstances' as it were, I'd go with GuyGone's suggestion.  Assess the situation, and then make the best choices you can, given the situation you're in, if that makes sense.  For me, I'm fortunate that I live on my own and my family is composed of different people with different religious beliefs...or lack thereof...so I was able to make the break away from faith easily.  However, in some instances I do have to capitulate and attend religious services, such as when my dad got married to his second wife in 2014.

 

At the end of the day, being true to yourself and your own existence is paramount.  It's something to keep in mind.

 

I hope this helps.