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Goodbye Jesus

My Long Story. May Be You Can Help Me.


dask

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So I'll start by saying Im a 29 year old male. I was born in 1986. I questioned my faith for the first time in my life when I was 29 years old, in October 1, 2015.

So my story sucks, I'm kind of a whimp about this. But I want to write this incase anyone can give me productive advise and or feedback.

Ever since I could remember I knew about God and churches, I was taken to church before I went to school. My parents raised me as a fundamental christian, the first songs I ever sang were christian songs.

Then when I entered elementary school, everyone around me was in a way religious, everyone I knew was either christian or catholic. The christian emphasis at school increased during Thanksgiving and christmas. When we pledge alliance to the flag, it was under God. In my mind I had no reason to question God, especially since I was only taught the good things about the bible, in cartoons and kids books. I loved my life so I had no problem saying God is good and loved the idea that God was watching over me.

In junior high I had a role model teacher I looked up to, she was outspoken about her christian faith, she was smart, good looking and very nice. She said she graduated from peperdine university, I was very impressed. So I liked christianity even more. Junior high was a blast, I started listening to punk rock, but stayed away from anything that was anti religious.

For high school if I remember correctly, I was not too focused on religion, at this point I had not read the bible, I prayed rarely, only when I felt I was getting tempted or if I felt I had sinned, but I was dependent on religion in a way, for example, I always told myself that one day after I experiment with the world a bit, I will go to God through reading and obeying the bible, and it gave me great peace thinking that. In that way I will end up in heaven, I felt as if God was allowing me to compare the world to his his love, so that I would appreciate his love even more.

I however ended up being a very wild young adult after high school, I lived a high risk life, using weed and alcohol, I would black out a few times. I was trying to have fun, and I still felt like one day I would make it to heaven after I calmed down. Anyways around the age of 26 my world got flipped upside down. I had an std risk exposure with a one night stand girl, I met through a friend that first night.

I was scared for over a year, that I had gotten HIV, luckily for me I tested negative. Through that year I prayed to God 24/7 for peace, reading the bible, i stopped "sinning" and researched about HIV and HTLV. I never got that one moment where I was like ok I'm at peace now, and I had to stop reading the bible when I got to the book of Job, cause it felt like God was scolding me. It felt horrible. So I then turned to smoking weed again, I was starting to feel ok again, I would play video games and stay high, I had a medical card for weed. My life had slowed down by this time.

As I was starting to feel better I started searching for funny videos on youtube, but I accidentally stumbled across an end times bible prophecy video, it was about the one world government illuminati, and I 100% beleived it. I got so scared, I felt I was going to be part of a new age holocaust, where all christians would be given the option of the mark of the beast(666) or having their heads chopped off.

So I went into another spiral of anxiety and depression, but I was now determined to get right with God once and for all. I told myself no more sinning for me, I stopped smoking weed, going out, listening to music, stopped watching TV and movies:( I continued reading the bible from where I left of (Job) I was on a mission to finish reading the bible cover to cover and convincing everyone that we are in the end of times, I was trying to slow down the end times, I was petrefied. My church attendance increased, I was praying 24/7, again I never got that peace I was praying for. My parents were encouraging my beleif on the end times, although they said not to worry so much, "God has the control".

By the time I had finished the old testament, my beleif of the end times bible prophecies had been solidified, I could say my faith had increased. Within 2 weeks, right before starting the new testament a couple of youtube videos dealt the first blows ever to my faith.

The first video was of 2 bible scholars sharing their journey, both of them started of as fundamental christians and both of them eventually after studying the bible in dept, began to have doubts. (This was contrary to what I had been taught)(the more you read the bible the stronger your faith gets) so the first lie emerges. One of them overcame his doubts (Mike Licona) but still he seems like he has some doubts by the way he speaks. The other bible scholar became an atheist (Bart Ehrman).

So listening to them was a big blow to my faith, however I marched forward. Then the second hit to my faith comes in about a week later, (Richard Carrier) with his impacting question "Did Jesus even exist?" Huge surprise to me, I thought Jesus was a historical proven fact prior to this "ouch".

So then as I'm about to start my first page of the new testament, I tell myself that if I can agree with most of what is written, I have a chance of maintaining my faith. Well by now I'm already reading the bible more critically than ever before, nonetheless I prayed before and after I read the bible each day, for God's guidance, religiously.

I get to (mathew 5:32) and boom, I get another blow to my faith, (Who ever divorces their spouse makes them commit adultery and who ever remarries a divorced person commits adultery.) I thought about the women who gets beat up, I guess according to the bible the abused woman must stay single if she divorces her husband.

I searched for verses that would describe exceptions where it would be permitted to divorce under abusive circumstances. Well not only did I not find excemptions, but the other beleif that I had about Jesus forgiving people who still sin was crushed. I finally had read the entire bible, and it wasn't the old testament I had trouble with, it was the new testament, to my surprise. I kept hearing nothing but good things about the new testament, but after reading it, I asked myself "where is the good news?"

After reading the new testament I understood that once you accept jesus you can't go on sinning anymore, and the problem is what the bible describes as sinning, for example "the rich young man" (Mark 10:17-31) his sin was that he did not sell everything he owned and give the proceeds to the poor, another example if you see a person who you find attractive you have already committed adultery, and of course a remmaried person is considered an adulterer, and according to the new testament these people will be getting the same punishment as "Hitler". Who will be the judge of who gets punished? Jesus.

Most christians will say Jesus is God, so in this case Jesus came to warn us that if we don't obey he will be throwing us in to the lake of fire.

All of a sudden it hits me like a ton of bricks. I get this feeling that my family, my friends and I myself which we all considered ourselves christians, we are all going to hell. And there is not much we can do about it, so I jump to the thought christianity can't be true. I took my blinders off and started to research for arguments against christianity. At this point I either beleive that my entire family who I love so much, are going to hell and I have to be thankful about it and become a monk, or I beleive that christianity is not true. Either way I felt screwed. The praying slowed down and it wasn't the same, reading the bible made me anxious and nauseous, but I was encouraged (forced) to read the bible by disobeying hypocrite "rightious" christians.

The Bible,, man what a book, it tore me apart. And not in a good way.

So the arguments against christianity are abundant and I understand why.

So all in short studying the bible, while trying to prove why christianity is true, led by fear of the apocalypse, and some bible and history scholars, made it as if impossible to reconcile my faith in christianity.

I still look for ways where I can return to that faith I had before reading the bible, but it seems it will never happen.

It's difficult for me to go on without a God that I can pray to, so that he watches over me, that leads me the right way, that cares about my happiness, that I can try and please, one that gets mad at me cause he loves me. But now those beleifs are replaced by the beleif that we live in a violant, cold, eerie and unknown world that is of complete randomness. The chance of tomorrow feeling pain is literally a random chance. The next hour getting hit by a devastating earthquake or natural disaster, chances are there.

I know beleiving in God doesn't change any of that, but it sure did feel like it for me. I had a totally ignorant faith, but my theology of my beleifs was ignorant but beuitiful. After reading the bible I knew my theology had nothing solid to stand on.

Is been about 4 months for me since this happened to me, I still feel anxiety and depression. Christianity was effective in convincing me the world has nothing good to offer, so here I am trying to figure out what's good in this world. I hope one day I can be a normal happy person again, one that is focused on the good, important things.

I want to end this writing by saying that one of my biggest influences in my life was my dad, we had an unshakable relationship up until this happened. I fear of breaking his faith, everytime I see him or talk to him, which used to be everyday, we would pray, so unfortunately now I have to try and avoid him, all while checking up on him, he is an older man. I tell him how much I love him every chance I get, and I mean it. It's unfortunate that religion has hurt our relationship so much whether I'm right or whether he is the one who is right.

And maybe me being so close to my dad is one big reason I wish I could share his same faith. But it feels to me accepting christianity would be like accepting a ride on a flat tire, when you have a flat tire you have to admit is flat regardless who tells you otherwise. I'm not saying christianity is false I'm just saying that from reading the bible and researching what I could, I'm forced to BELEIVE christianity unacceptable to me.

I appologize for my wild style of writting.

And thanks for taking the time to read my story.

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But it feels to me accepting christianity would be like accepting a ride on a flat tire, when you have a flat tire you have to admit is flat regardless who tells you otherwise. I'm not saying christianity is false I'm just saying that from reading the bible and researching what I could, I'm forced to BELEIVE christianity unacceptable to me.

 

Any "god" who would allow even one of his children to suffer eternal punishment, is a cruel and vengefull tyrant. One could only fear such a "god". If Christianity was proven true tomorrow, I would tell Yahweh to kiss my ass. Congrats on becomming a Free Thinker. Since you've only had doubts for 4 months, I've added some links below.

 

John Loftus

Drew Bekius

Jeffery Jay Lowder

Neil Godfrey

Bob Seidensticker

Matthew Ferguson

Michael Vito Tosto

Life After Doubt

Bruce Gerencser

Clay

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Congrats on becoming an ex-christian and hopefully realizing the truth, not matter how dark it might be, will end up giving you some actual light in the world. For example:

 

- The problem of evil is now solved: No god, means it's up to us to solve the evils in the world. It's within our own power to do so and we should do everything we can.

- With no heaven or hell, it's all about the here and now. Every moment is precious! Don't fret about death or bad things tomorrow - work to make things better NOW so when the future comes, you'll be prepared to deal with it. 

- With no god guiding your path, the path is now your's to choose. 

- Without fear of hell, what used to be considered "sins" are now not. Enjoy life! 

- Leading from the last one, your fear of STD's was driven by a general fear that I believe fundamentalists all inherit. The statistical likelihood of getting HIV are pretty low. You can now use Science and Reason to negate fear of things instead of some drivel spouted by a religious book. 

- With no religious end times (see last point, again), you have nothing to fear from that. 

 

Also, I think, based on your post, you might want to consider getting secular therapy from a skilled and recommended therapist. I'm just guessing, but you might suffer from actual depression. There is no shame in this (though fundamentalist christians tend to look down on therapy and psychology as just tools of satan, MORE FAITH is all you need, blah blah), again, science and reason as your guide, you can become happier with real help from a professional in the field. I struggle with depression too - you sound like me - and I can tell you that medication and therapy help.

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Some great advice, here!

 

I agree - look into some therapy (nope, definitely no shame in it!), read the links provided, and stay the course! You'll be ok! It takes a long time to fully cleanse oneself of the fears and boogeymen religions such as Christianity put into our heads. The Rome of your peace of mind won't be built in a day, but when you're done with construction, it will last longer than the Empire :)

 

Hang in there!

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Welcome to freedom. Keep studying and asking questions. Your life has changed forever and trust me - you will feel the freedom soon. It takes time to get over religious indoctrination. As others have said, a secular therapist may be able to help.

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Thanks for your replies and links. I will look into the links.

I have considered secular therapy. I been looking around for one that I feel comfortable with.

Thanks again.

I do hope it gets better.

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Greetings, and welcome! Thanks for sharing your story.

 

Although much of my path was different from yours, I was also 29 when I had my first doubts about Christianity, and those doubts came from problems in the Bible. I also went through a period of struggling and depression, so I know that really sucks.

 

Some good advice has been posted already, so hopefully that helps. I really wish you the best as you try to sort through everything and figure out what is believable for you. Good luck, man!

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Thanks citsonga.

I appreciate all the people here and I appreciate all the responses.

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I'm glad you saw the light before me.  It took me until I was 48 to give up Christianity.  By that time I had been a pastor for 5.5 years and damaged my finances and almost destroyed my ability to have a secular career.  I praise you for seeing the problems with Christianity:

  • A loving God requiring a human sacrifice on 2 perpendicular sticks of wood in order to forgive
  • A loving God requiring symbolic cannibalism of that human sacrifice as an act of remembrance
  • A loving God condemning all who don't believe in that human sacrifice to burn forever in screaming agony
  • A loving God attacking the earth in a time of Revelation, including massacring over half the human population, destroying most of nature, and several stars (including I guess any beings on planets revolving around those stars) 

If this is love, I want no part of it.  Fortunately, there is love in the world, love without strings attached.  You just need to look somewhere other than a church or any other structure of organized religion.  Try not joining any group, but meeting people one on one.  It's hard work, but you will find people who love you without agenda.

On psychotherapy, it's normal to be feeling down after an important part of your life is suddenly discarded.  I tried psychotherapy after I left church.  It did not help.  Time passing and restarting my secular life did help.  I'm not saying you shouldn't try psychotherapy, but depression may not be the reason you're feeling down, so psychotherapy may not help.  Meeting people who love you without preconditions or agendas for your life is probably the best prescription.

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Thanks benmunford, you are giving me some good points. I do think you feel better than I do at the moment, but I hope you are right. I hope it does get better to a point where I feel emotionally and mentally normal. And I agree even if I am looking for psychotherapy, I still feel skeptical about it. Thanks for your response.

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But it feels to me accepting christianity would be like accepting a ride on a flat tire, when you have a flat tire you have to admit is flat regardless who tells you otherwise. I'm not saying christianity is false I'm just saying that from reading the bible and researching what I could, I'm forced to BELEIVE christianity unacceptable to me.

Any "god" who would allow even one of his children to suffer eternal punishment, is a cruel and vengefull tyrant. One could only fear such a "god". If Christianity was proven true tomorrow, I would tell Yahweh to kiss my ass. Congrats on becomming a Free Thinker. Since you've only had doubts for 4 months, I've added some links below.

 

John Loftus

Drew Bekius

Jeffery Jay Lowder

Neil Godfrey

Bob Seidensticker

Matthew Ferguson

Michael Vito Tosto

Life After Doubt

Bruce Gerencser

Clay

 

Thanks for the links, really interesting I'm still looking through them. I'll post here when I gone through all of them.

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Very good posting and I hear you. God is evil if he is real, no two ways about it, Jesus coming to warn us how horrible is, is no warning at all. Little wonder so many Christians are mentally ill, given that their god is a lunatic.

 

Avoid Christian You tube video's 

 

As much as I do love You tube, sadly it does allow Bible thumper the chance to frighten the gullible 

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The concept of god as so many of xian churches use it, is evil.  They use it to control and promote fear, to make people feel self-righteous yet still unsure of their future, and they use it to get as much money as they can for their big buildings and to pay their staff, while not paying taxes.

 

The only thing I can semi-respect about the idea of Jesus (I don't really believe in the Jesus of the bible, maybe there was a Jewish man who claimed to be a prophet and said some things) is that he didn't collect money off people to build a big building and he didn't take an exorbitant salary.  Yes, bible stories said he and the disciples took food from fields as they traveled (stealing), and they would have had to get some money and food to keep their group able to survive, and he did drown a farmer's entire herd of pigs to get rid of the "demons" (that's really horrible, destroying someone's livelihood by drowning their entire investment), and he did authorize the disciples to steal a donkey or colt for good friday (stealing).  BUT he didn't keep extorting ridiculous amounts of money out of people, as far as we know.

 

Drowning the entire herd of pigs and destroying the pig farmer's livelihood, which also made the pig farmer's workers (mentioned in the story) lose their jobs, is really heinous.  That story does not make me respect the idea of Jesus.  If Jesus was real and really part of god, he could have just cast the alleged demons back to hell, or drowned them without benefit of pigs.  Seriously.

 

Matthew 8:28-34

28 When He arrived at the other side in the region of the Gadarenes, two demon-possessed men coming from the tombs met Him. They were so violent that no one could pass that way. 29 “What do you want with us, Son of God?” they shouted. “Have you come here to torture us before the appointed time?”

30 Some distance from them a large herd of pigs was feeding. 31 The demons begged Jesus, “If you drive us out, send us into the herd of pigs.”

32 He said to them, “Go!” So they came out and went into the pigs, and the whole herd rushed down the steep bank into the lake and died in the water. 33 Those tending the pigs ran off, went into the town and reported all this, including what had happened to the demon-possessed men. 34 Then the whole town went out to meet Jesus. And when they saw Him, they pleaded with Him to leave their region.

Here is an apologist reply to a question about why was it moral for Jesus to kill the pigs (in the book of Mark it says 2,000 pigs), Christopher Smith is the apologist blogger:

 

"To answer the second part of your question, it may be that Jesus realized that such a demonstration would be worth making to everyone in the area, including the swineherd, even if it cost the swineherd his entire livelihood.  Jesus told the parables  of the hidden treasure and the pearl of great value to illustrate how finding the kingdom of God is worth giving up “everything we have.”  It’s a bit like when Jesus told his first disciples to “follow me” and they left behind their fishing boats and nets.  The one difference is that the disciples got to choose ahead of time to leave everything behind and follow Jesus, while the swineherd would have had to realize after the fact that losing everything was worth finding out about Jesus’ great power and love and choosing to follow him."

 

 

Amateur here:  I still find Jesus's actions heinous.  We never hear anything else about the swineherd or the pig tenders; like all apologists, Mr. Smith just makes up an explanation that excuses Jesus's actions.

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Amateur, I had never thought of the pig story that way. Jesus was a douche - you would think the omnipotent creator-god of the universe, who spoke the world into existence, could've cast those bitches to hell, plugged them into a prison, utterly destroyed them...but no, he actually allowed DEMONS to destroy the life of a farmer and scared the living shit out of the entire town. (I just reread the story - the town begged him to leave. No fucking wonder!)

 

The demons asked to be sent into the pigs so they could cause destruction to the town. What lesson is there in that? That Jesus has command of demons, yes. But to the destruction of an entire field of innocent animals, the livelihood of a farmer, and probably affecting the economy of an entire town.

 

Notice the demon's mentioned "Torture us before the appointed time". Sure - he was following some "prophecy" so he didn't want to "torture them early". But he could've sent them to the far reaches of the planet. Or forbid them from interacting with any humans, or harming anyone. 

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Ever since I first started doubting, it's been like a dominoes effect, every time I read the bible now, I find it harder and harder to beleive.

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Ever since I first started doubting, it's been like a dominoes effect, every time I read the bible now, I find it harder and harder to beleive.

 

Welcome to EX-c dask and Benmunford! Good to have both of you. Thank you both for sharing your stories.

 

Isn't it amazing when your eyes really open to what is in the bible? All those years thinking that the story of 'Job' was to teach us to 'wait on the lord' and have patience (hence the quote, 'The patience of Job") and when your eyes REALLY open you see that the god of the old testament was a very brutal god sitting up there on the clouds making bets with satan! What a terrible god! Can you imagine making poor ole' job go through what he went through? You're eyes are about to be opened!! The real bible scholars on this site will show you 'the other side'!

 

I'm so glad you are both here. It's a bumpy ride. Don't expect to be the same because you likely won't. You will be slowly giving up what you believed for years and creating a new world view that you help you become a different person. Hang tight. You're both going to be O.k. 

 

(hugs) to both of you.

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Hi Dask,

 

On demons and Satan, the bible's story is that God cast them out of heaven and onto earth.  If God is loving and the universe is 13 billion light years wide, why would God "love us" enough to put them here to torment and tempt?  God could have put these beings on a barren planet where they could do no harm.  Truthfully, the invention of such beings is a way for man to avoid responsibility for his own wrong actions.  Unfortunately, belief in Satan and demons is only proof of man's immaturity.  When man was young, he pointed and said, "Little Timmy made me do it."  Now that man is old, he has no one to point to, but he still blames someone else and says, "Satan made me do it." 

 

Regarding feeling better, in seminary I took Pastoral Care class, which was actually applied psychology and an admission that Christianity isn't a cure all.  One of the things we learned is that there are life changing events.  Each of these events leaves an emotional gap in a person's life, a gap that was previously filled and contained something that was fulfilling.  The death of a loved one, divorce, the loss of a job, the departure of a friend: All these are examples of life changing events.  The loss of religion is also a life changing event.  It leaves an emotional gap.  We react to life changing events with the process of grieving.  We go through shock, then mourning, then anger, then acceptance, then recovery.  Your feeling down may be the mourning stage, after the life changing event that is admitting the religious junk of Christianity and discarding it.  Thus, your feeling down may not be abnormal depression, but normal mourning. 

 

I would also add this on feeling down, I last used weed in 1989, so my experience with it is distant.  However, I remember that when I first used it, it made me laugh almost uncontrollably.  Then, after a few episodes of getting high, the experience changed.  I really did get stoned.  I'd zone out and get very depressed (also very hungry).  You may want to try life without marijuana for a while and see if that makes you feel better.

 

Ben

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Thank you for the encouraging words Margee . It's a relief knowing there are people who know what this is all like. I hope to learn alot more here.

And talking about Job. Who seen God and satan gambling? Did the author seen God and satan physically? It's just to hard to beleive.

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benmunford, Yes, it's been about a year since I stopped using weed. I don't plan on using it anymore, life is already a trip as it is. Weed makes me all paranoid at this time.

And thank you for your response about normal mourning. It adds to the clarity I'm trying to achieve.

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...

 

On demons and Satan, the bible's story is that God cast them out of heaven and onto earth.  If God is loving and the universe is 13 billion light years wide, why would God "love us" enough to put them here to torment and tempt?  God could have put these beings on a barren planet where they could do no harm.  Truthfully, the invention of such beings is a way for man to avoid responsibility for his own wrong actions.  Unfortunately, belief in Satan and demons is only proof of man's immaturity.  When man was young, he pointed and said, "Little Timmy made me do it."  Now that man is old, he has no one to point to, but he still blames someone else and says, "Satan made me do it." 

...

 

 

Right.  Life on earth is hard enough for humans, just trying to co-exist amongst ourselves.

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On demons and Satan, the bible's story is that God cast them out of heaven and onto earth.

 

That's actually not the Bible's story. It's a Christian doctrine based on taking Isaiah 14:12 out of context (which is also where they erroneously derive the name Lucifer, which is actually just a transliteration of the Latin for "day star"). Satan is not mentioned anywhere in the passage. Reading the whole chapter reveals that it is actually talking about the king of Babylon (see verse 4). The "fallen from heaven" phrase was probably meant as imagery of the king falling from heights (i.e., being cut down from power), but regardless of what it meant, it definitely is not talking about Satan or demons.

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On demons and Satan, the bible's story is that God cast them out of heaven and onto earth.

That's actually not the Bible's story. It's a Christian doctrine based on taking Isaiah 14:12 out of context (which is also where they erroneously derive the name Lucifer, which is actually just a transliteration of the Latin for "day star"). Satan is not mentioned anywhere in the passage. Reading the whole chapter reveals that it is actually talking about the king of Babylon (see verse 4). The "fallen from heaven" phrase was probably meant as imagery of the king falling from heights (i.e., being cut down from power), but regardless of what it meant, it definitely is not talking about Satan or demons.

For some reason I really appreciate, that you know the bible well.

I'm still amazed at what the new testament says and how people have a theology about it that is contrary to what is written.

The instant that I realized I could not handout bibles to people and claim that it will help people, is when I realized I could no longer consider myself a christian.

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The passage I was referring to is Revelation 12:7-9

 

"And there was war in heaven.  Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back.  But he was not strong enough and they lost their place in heaven. The great dragon was hurled down - that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray.  He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him."

 

If you believe that all of Revelation happens in the future, then this event has not yet occurred.  However, in seminary, we were taught that past events may be found in Revelation as set up for future events.  Satan being thrown down may be a past event.  The woman Satan chases in Revelation 12:1-6 and 12:13-17 could be Jesus' mother Mary at the time of his birth.  Jesus' birth is a biblical past event.  The chasing may be a description of Satan using Herod to try to kill Jesus and then to kill other children - a biblical past event.  It is possible that the context for Revelation 12:1-17 is past biblical events, which would lend credibility to the throwing down of Satan and the demons as a biblical past event.

 

Another question is, if Satan and his demons were on earth during Jesus' time, and Jesus judged them evil (worthy of condemnation and being cast out), why would God let them back into heaven only to throw them out again?  Wouldn't God be disregarding the judgment of God's only son?

 

Further, in Luke 10:18, Jesus tells his disciples, "I saw Satan fall like lighting from heaven."  I have never seen the Coyne Greek for this verse translated in present or future tense.  For Jesus, the fall of Satan from heaven was a past event.

 

I believe that the church's doctrine on Satan and demons being thrown down to earth has grounding in the bible.  However, I reiterate that all discussion of Satan and demons is hypothetical.  I believe that they are an invention of man out of man's immaturity and inability to take responsibility for wrong actions.

 

I also respect the right of anyone to disagree with me.  I have had enough of church dogmatism.  If I thought I could never be wrong on the bible, I'd belong back in church.

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^^^ Revelation is a huge, befuddled mess with a lot of imagery, so it's hard to know what was really meant with a lot of the stuff in it. Most see Revelation as mainly prophesying future events, but yeah, whatever. I've seen the Isaiah verse cited a lot, though, and it is definitely taken out of context.

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On demons and Satan, the bible's story is that God cast them out of heaven and onto earth. If God is loving and the universe is 13 billion light years wide, why would God "love us" enough to put them here to torment and tempt?

 

 

I do know what you mean, I think another similar question would be , who created the fruit of knowledge and who created the talking serpent in genesis. If God created these 2 things, he basically created an unimaginable amount of people that he will have to punish, if he is all knowing, and this were to be true, it's a horrible plan.

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