readyforchange Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 On demons and Satan, the bible's story is that God cast them out of heaven and onto earth. That's actually not the Bible's story. It's a Christian doctrine based on taking Isaiah 14:12 out of context (which is also where they erroneously derive the name Lucifer, which is actually just a transliteration of the Latin for "day star"). Satan is not mentioned anywhere in the passage. Reading the whole chapter reveals that it is actually talking about the king of Babylon (see verse 4). The "fallen from heaven" phrase was probably meant as imagery of the king falling from heights (i.e., being cut down from power), but regardless of what it meant, it definitely is not talking about Satan or demons. I think you can see an example of how the word lucifer is taken out of context in Isaiah 14:12 by comparing it to how the word is used in 2 Peter 1:19. The same word for "day star", or "morning star", is used in 2 Peter 1:19, and the context in 2 Peter 1:19 also has nothing to do with Satan. This is Isaiah 14:12 in the Latin Biblia Sacra Vulgata translation (from Biblegateway.com): 12 quomodo cecidisti de caelo lucifer qui mane oriebaris corruisti in terram qui vulnerabas gentes And this is 2 Peter 1:19 in the same Latin Biblia Sacra Vulgate translation: 19 et habemus firmiorem propheticum sermonem cui bene facitis adtendentes quasi lucernae lucenti in caliginoso loco donec dies inlucescat et lucifer oriatur in cordibus vestris 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benmunford Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 I agree that Revelation is a huge befuddled mess. Watching the loving God supposedly carry out 21 acts of wrathful destruction in chapters 6-16 is almost too much to bear. If you want to be depressed, read Revelation. The imagery for the fall of Satan may also have its origin in Ezekiel 28:14-17, the prophecy against the King of Tyre: "You were anointed as a guardian cherub, for so I ordained you. You were on the holy mount of God; you walked among the fiery stones. You were blameless in your ways from the day you were created till wickedness was found in you. Through your widespread trade, you were filled with violence, and you sinned. So I drove you in disgrace from the mount of God. and I expelled you, O guardian cherub, from among the fiery stones. Your heart became proud because of your beauty, and you corrupted your wisdom because of your splendor. So I threw you to the earth." Dask (Dare to ask ?), I hope you keep asking questions and develop your own faith, whatever that may be. This quote is from Thomas Jefferson from a letter to his nephew, written 1787, regarding developing one's own individual beliefs. "Do not be frightened from this inquiry by any fear of its consequences. If it ends in belief that there is no God, you will find incitements to virtue in the comfort and pleasantness you find in its exercise, and the love of others which it will procure you. If you find reason to believe that there is a God, a consciousness that you are acting under his eye, and that he approves you, will be a vast incitement.... Your own reason is the only oracle given you by heaven, and you are answerable, not for the rightness, but the uprightness of the decision." Merrill Peterson, Thomas Jefferson and the New Nation, p52. It is also notable that Jefferson believed in God, but took the Christian bible, cut out all the miracles, the last supper, the resurrection, and almost everything after and then used Jesus' supposed teachings as a philosophical reference. Ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dask Posted January 31, 2016 Author Share Posted January 31, 2016 Thanks benmunford, that reference from thomas Jefferson is very hrlpful. Great advise from a great man. It seems to me he was promoting reason more than promoting God, by that small statement. It sounds that if he did beleive in God, he had doubts. Honestly I find the book of mathew more scary than revelations. But the whole testament is super confusing to me, especially when added all in context, then learning the history of it, makes it even more dificult to have faith in it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dask Posted February 2, 2016 Author Share Posted February 2, 2016 Today I woke up with some anxiety, unintentionally asking my if everything is just a coincidence? Or is there actually a god who knows what's going to happen before it does? Anyone have any advise on how to get past this question? It bothers me for some reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cousin Ricky Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 I have considered secular therapy. I been looking around for one that I feel comfortable with. Try the Secular Therapist Project. I also respect the right of anyone to disagree with me. I have had enough of church dogmatism. If I thought I could never be wrong on the bible, I'd belong back in church. RAmen! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dask Posted February 4, 2016 Author Share Posted February 4, 2016 I have tried the secular project twice, and they never responded. I also feel that I can't afford it. If they charge $70 per session, and I've heard of therapy not being so effective in some cases. I just found out what nihilism is, and I'm have depression triggers due to it. Anyone know a good way to put nihilism in the back burner? I never thought atheism came with the baggage of nihilism. Any links will be appreciated, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cousin Ricky Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 Atheism is a simple answer to a single question. It does not imply any philosophy or world view. That said, it is obvious that an atheist, by definition, cannot derive meaning from a god. Some people take that to mean that life is meaningless to atheists. This is a false dichotomy, which derives from the assumption that meaning must be imposed from outside, particularly, by a god. To me, nihilism is a start, not an end. Asking “Without a god, what is my purpose?” is like asking, “Without a master, whose slave shall I be?” Where does an atheist find purpose? (Neil Carter) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dask Posted February 5, 2016 Author Share Posted February 5, 2016 Maybe you can give me a little more insight, what's after nihilism? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdelsolray Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 Maybe you can give me a little more insight, what's after nihilism? Discover and practice meaning, purpose, direction and happiness in your own life. It's your job, it's hard work and it take time and effort. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightflighter Posted February 14, 2016 Share Posted February 14, 2016 It's good to be free. ETA: Without the dark curtain of a restraining religious belief that is "handed down", you can see with your own eyes and mind, minus constraints. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abrooks2007 Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 Hey dask. First of all, hello! We're not quite neighbors, but I live a mile west of downtown Los Angeles. I'm very familiar with Ventura County. Your writing is quite logical and readable. I understand where you're coming from and where you're at. It was pretty much me two years ago. Breaking away from organized religion...especially when you're taught it when young...is scary and quite intimidating. It takes time to discover your new identity. For me...literally, LAST NIGHT I realized "Andrew...this is the SECOND TIME since you left your church that you tried to bring back your faith. Bud, it ain't working. So stop trying to bring a dead horse back to life. It ain't happenin.'" And for the first time, I'm ok with it. I'm my own person and I like who I am. You'll get there too, Just give yourself time. Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dask Posted February 16, 2016 Author Share Posted February 16, 2016 Thanks abrooks I'll be replying to your messages. U will hear from me soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abrooks2007 Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 I look forward to it, dask. And remember: Take it one day at a time. :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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