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Goodbye Jesus

Did God Create Sin?


FlowerDemon

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This topic I'm posting was inspired from a previous post I made in the thread "Does God Sin." I'll copy and paste it:

 

 

I got into this debate with a Christian one time and I was like "So if god created everything, that includes sin, right?" And they were like "No...God allowed the possibility of sin to happen, but left it up to Adam and Eve to make that choice for sin to be born."

 

I replied "But if God allowed the possibility of sin to happen, then technically that means he created it. If God didn't create it then who did? Adam and Eve couldn't have created it, they just made a choice not fully understanding what was going to happen."

 

And she kept telling me that God allowed the possibility of sin to exist but he didn't actually create it. Yeah like that makes so much sense. If God allowed the possibility of something to happen, then that means he created that possibility of something to happen. She used the word allow to avoid the whole issue...ignoring the fact that her religion teaches that God created everything, including evil, and sin!

 

What do you guys think of this? Isn't it bizarre how Christians say their God made everything, the whole universe....but then they turn around and say that God didn't create sin? This is one thing that never made sense to me when I used to go to church. The pastor would talk about all of the sin and evil in the world...and how we must resist the devil and turn to God in the midst of temptations...it sounds so silly now. People say the devil is the ruler of evil and the temptor...but if God created sin then he must have also made Satan, thus giving him the qualities he has. And since God knows everything, God knew that Satan would rebel and be thrown into hell, where all non believers go. I feel like a loving powerful God of the whole universe would do things in a different way...instead of allowing most of his beloved creations to perish for all eternity just for not believing in the right thing.

 

Christians like to act like in their belief, humans are the ones entirely at fault and they need to change their ways to make the world a better place. Now don't get me wrong, it's a good thing to turn your life around for the better good, and there's a lot of people who seriously need to do that...but I think if Christianity were true, God should also take responsibility for how the world is right now..not just humans. In Isaiah 45:7...it says this: I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things. Yes, humans have obviously done a lot of fucked up things, but according to Christianity, so has God. He creates disaster, not just all of the fuzzy warm feelings you get when you sing a song at church. 

 

On a side note, Christianity isn't even technically monotheistic because Satan is known as the "god of this world" or "the evil one"...obviously an entity that has enough control on earth to influence and tempt humans to live sinful lives.

 

Thoughts?

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Well there is no way to get Christians to see what they don't want to see, but within the myth God creates sin by choosing what shall be sin.  God sat up in heaven before creating the world and ran through a list.  

 

"Raping little girls you capture in war is good.  Slavery is good as long as you don't enslave my favorite people.  But using my name in vain is bad.  That's sin and I will burn you forever and ever for that.  Selling your daughter to the highest bidder is good.  Wars of conquest are good if I like the people doing the conquering.  But if they try to conquer my people then it is sin unless I sent them to punish my people.  Working on the Sabbath is bad and I will smite you for it.  Beating your slave is good as long as he doesn't die from it.  Raping your wife is good.  Eating pork is bad.  Eating grasshoppers is good. . . . "

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If Biblegod didn't create sin, he's not the only creator.   

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I've reached the point that I flatly refuse to allow Xians to set the agenda or debate their "beliefs". My answer would be "No" because humans created lots of imaginary Gods, lots of sacred scriptures, and all the fictional characters found in those mythical sacred writings. God didn't create anything because the Xian God is a human created fictional character.

 

Now if you have valid evidence God actually exists I would be delighted to examine it & when I'm done, if you have convinced me God actually exist, I'll get back to you. And the good news for you is that faith will no longer be necessary.

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Did God create sin? Yes. Fucker oughtta go to own hell.

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The christian god is a fuck up. I could have done a better job..... any of us could if we had  been granted those 'powers'. Anyone in their right mind would have wanted to have a 'good earth' with no suffering. All those years of listening to, ''We have lessons to learn' or 'god knows best' or 'god wouldn't give you more than you can handle''? What a bunch of crap.

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The christian god is a fuck up. I could have done a better job..... any of us could if we had  been granted those 'powers'. Anyone in their right mind would have wanted to have a 'good earth' with no suffering. All those years of listening to, ''We have lessons to learn' or 'god knows best' or 'god wouldn't give you more than you can handle''? What a bunch of crap.

 

Note that when something seriously bad happens, they'll say that God is just teaching them a lesson. I'm waiting for an opportunity to respond to such crap by showing them photos of the horribly deformed children caused by the Chernobyl nuclear meltdown in Russia, or the Minamata mercury poisoning in Japan, or kids with distended bellies starving to death in Africa. then I'll ask, "So you would do this to your children to teach them lessons?"

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P1:  Humans created gods.

P2:  Gods define sin.

C1:  Humans create and define sin.

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     Most concepts of sin depend on what god decides god will be offended by.  So if god simply decided to not get offended then there would be no sin.  I say most concepts because the version handed out in Genesis by the god itself is a tad different: 4:6 If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin is lurking at the door; its desire is for you, but you must master it.”  Sin being compared to a wild animal that basically consumes you if you do the wrong thing is different from offending someone or something or missing the mark (in the Greek sense).

 

     All that aside, the general xian idea of the original sin tends to hinge on the serpent, being Satan, tricking Eve into sinning.  Satan is already evil having been thrown down to earth after some war in heaven after somehow becoming prideful in this paradise.  There are other stories that are similar to this (Enoch).  Anyhow, according to the Lord's Prayer, jesus says, in Matthew, "Your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven."  If, as xians believe he is also god, then this means that he has full knowledge of how heaven operates.  This would mean if, while in heaven, Satan did become prideful and a war was the result then, since god's will is always done in heaven (revealed through this first-hand knowledge of god) then god would be absolutely responsible in every way for Satan becoming prideful and this war even if he simply "allowed" it to occur.  By allowing it in heaven this would mean this was his will for it to happen since in heaven his will is always done according to the prayer (the words of the son of god who is also god).  Satan is then sent to earth where we could infer that god's will is not always done but by then the king of sinners has already been created in heaven and sent to rule over earth.  The damage is done where god has total control.

 

     Now, not every xian takes this view (a large chunk of them...nearly all I've encountered) and certainly the Jews (maybe some do but none I've spoke with) don't see it this way.  But of all xians who believe this way just about all of them have a really hard problem understanding the concept of sin prior to Adam and Eve eating from the tree even though they talk about Satan being prideful in heaven before being thrown down to tempt them.

 

          mwc

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