Storm Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 So yesterday, I went to church with my wife. After the worship time, the pastor had one of the former pastors who recently retired come to the front and the pastor declared that he wanted to have the retired pastor share a testimony. The retired pastor started to tell his story that he recently was diagnosed with Kidney Cancer. After going through treatment and chemo and whatnot, he went back for a follow up exam and it was at that exam that he heard the doctor talking with the nurse just outside the office and they indicated that they could not find any traces of the cancer. He was cancer free. Good news for him, to be sure, however, he stood in front of the church and gave God all of the credit for healing him and the church erupted in glorious applause shouting and praising god. The retired pastor continued to talk and share about how it was all the prayers and support of the people from our church and he spoke about the power of god and blah, blah, blah. The ironic thing about all this, is that after the retired pastor shared his testimony, the pastor shared that the congregation still needed to pray for him because he was still having other health related problems. This exposed a crack that hardly anyone noticed in regards to the whole he got healed hoopla. While all this was going on, my wife (who is a believer) stood in shock and disbelief. Her grandfather just passed away a few weeks ago from the very same diagnosis (Kidney Cancer) and upon hearing that the retired pastor was healed of Kidney Cancer, my wife lost it. She started bawling and couldn't believe that god would heal the retired pastor, but not her grandfather. The retired pastor had no better "credentials" than my wife's grandfather: He was a long time elder in the church, he was very much the type of elder and Christian that one would expect to see from someone who thought of an ideal Christian. He was a good Christian if I ever saw one. My wife looked at me and she was completely broken. I struggled with the opportunity that presented itself to me to crack the foundation of my wife's belief. She sent me a text that basically asked "why did god heal him and not my grandfather?" I paused a moment and really thought for a second about what to say. I didn't want to be a jerk "atheist" and just bash god. But I also wanted to challenge her in this moment of "vulnerability". I ended up just writing back and saying that I don't believe that god healed the retired pastor. I mentioned that it made no sense that god would heal the cancer, but not heal any of the other issues he was experiencing. She just looked at me and said nothing. I just continued to console her and try to comfort her as much as possible. I was hoping she would talk more after service, but she made no mention of it and I didn't push it. I don't know if what I said made any difference. Probably not, but it is this type of stuff that really grinds my gears in regards to religion and more specifically, Christianity: They are so blind and ignorant of reality. Now that I am out of Christian thinking and behaviors, I see the truth as it happens. I don't always understand it, but I have come to accept that not knowing is ok. I don't have to have an explanation for everything. But I also can give credit to who deserves it. Medicine healed the retired pastor's cancer. Not God. Medicine has not yet been able to heal his other issues, but they are at least doing something with it, as opposed to god who isn't doing anything because he isn't real. But the other thing that I hate is that Christians don't blame god for anything. They believe that he orders that world, yet he allows horrible things to happen. But its all just part of his big plan. Its all because of sin. Hogwash. Pure unadulterated hogwash. I wanted to speak on my wife's behalf and say things like: "It is God's fault that my wife's Grandfather died of Kidney Cancer." "God chose not to heal him. God let him die. It is his fault." "God is a fucking prick" I know she would never say that out loud (at least I don't think she would). But I suspect that she was thinking it on some level, if only subconsciously. How do people live like this? How do they not see what Christianity does? I guess ignorance is bliss. So sad. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsathoggua Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 I don't understand this mentality, either. If god can take the credit for good things, one should be able to blame him when things go bad. But someone mired in the christian mindset will always come up with some cockamamie excuse to let their deity off the hook. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Posted February 8, 2016 Author Share Posted February 8, 2016 I don't understand this mentality, either. If god can take the credit for good things, one should be able to blame him when things go bad. But someone mired in the christian mindset will always come up with some cockamamie excuse to let their deity off the hook. You shouldn't question god, who created the whole universe. He might squash you like the bug that you are. Remember, the "Fear of the Lord" is the beginning of knowledge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsathoggua Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 I don't understand this mentality, either. If god can take the credit for good things, one should be able to blame him when things go bad. But someone mired in the christian mindset will always come up with some cockamamie excuse to let their deity off the hook. You shouldn't question god, who created the whole universe. He might squash you like the bug that you are. Remember, the "Fear of the Lord" is the beginning of knowledge. Oh, great. Now I'm trembling with fear. And I'm about to out to take my break. I guess I'll get squashed! Drat. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
searchinwithnoagenda Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 So yesterday, I went to church with my wife. After the worship time, the pastor had one of the former pastors who recently retired come to the front and the pastor declared that he wanted to have the retired pastor share a testimony. The retired pastor started to tell his story that he recently was diagnosed with Kidney Cancer. After going through treatment and chemo and whatnot, he went back for a follow up exam and it was at that exam that he heard the doctor talking with the nurse just outside the office and they indicated that they could not find any traces of the cancer. He was cancer free. Good news for him, to be sure, however, he stood in front of the church and gave God all of the credit for healing him and the church erupted in glorious applause shouting and praising god. The retired pastor continued to talk and share about how it was all the prayers and support of the people from our church and he spoke about the power of god and blah, blah, blah. The ironic thing about all this, is that after the retired pastor shared his testimony, the pastor shared that the congregation still needed to pray for him because he was still having other health related problems. This exposed a crack that hardly anyone noticed in regards to the whole he got healed hoopla. While all this was going on, my wife (who is a believer) stood in shock and disbelief. Her grandfather just passed away a few weeks ago from the very same diagnosis (Kidney Cancer) and upon hearing that the retired pastor was healed of Kidney Cancer, my wife lost it. She started bawling and couldn't believe that god would heal the retired pastor, but not her grandfather. The retired pastor had no better "credentials" than my wife's grandfather: He was a long time elder in the church, he was very much the type of elder and Christian that one would expect to see from someone who thought of an ideal Christian. He was a good Christian if I ever saw one. My wife looked at me and she was completely broken. I struggled with the opportunity that presented itself to me to crack the foundation of my wife's belief. She sent me a text that basically asked "why did god heal him and not my grandfather?" I paused a moment and really thought for a second about what to say. I didn't want to be a jerk "atheist" and just bash god. But I also wanted to challenge her in this moment of "vulnerability". I ended up just writing back and saying that I don't believe that god healed the retired pastor. I mentioned that it made no sense that god would heal the cancer, but not heal any of the other issues he was experiencing. She just looked at me and said nothing. I just continued to console her and try to comfort her as much as possible. I was hoping she would talk more after service, but she made no mention of it and I didn't push it. I don't know if what I said made any difference. Probably not, but it is this type of stuff that really grinds my gears in regards to religion and more specifically, Christianity: They are so blind and ignorant of reality. Now that I am out of Christian thinking and behaviors, I see the truth as it happens. I don't always understand it, but I have come to accept that not knowing is ok. I don't have to have an explanation for everything. But I also can give credit to who deserves it. Medicine healed the retired pastor's cancer. Not God. Medicine has not yet been able to heal his other issues, but they are at least doing something with it, as opposed to god who isn't doing anything because he isn't real. But the other thing that I hate is that Christians don't blame god for anything. They believe that he orders that world, yet he allows horrible things to happen. But its all just part of his big plan. Its all because of sin. Hogwash. Pure unadulterated hogwash. I wanted to speak on my wife's behalf and say things like: "It is God's fault that my wife's Grandfather died of Kidney Cancer." "God chose not to heal him. God let him die. It is his fault." "God is a fucking prick" I know she would never say that out loud (at least I don't think she would). But I suspect that she was thinking it on some level, if only subconsciously. How do people live like this? How do they not see what Christianity does? I guess ignorance is bliss. So sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
searchinwithnoagenda Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 If you haven't already, you might consider asking your wife about all the "overlooked" folks "god" did not heal of kidney cancer before the efforts of humans and the resulting modern medicine / cures we enjoy today. Beware of rationalization, the gift that keeps on giving. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjn Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 If you haven't already, you might consider asking your wife about all the "overlooked" folks "god" did not heal of kidney cancer before the efforts of humans and the resulting modern medicine / cures we enjoy today. Beware of rationalization, the gift that keeps on giving. Yeah, whatabout the millions of people throughout history who died of diseases that are easily cured today? They probably prayed all day long, because that was more or less all they could do. Interesting that all the healing miracles happen to coincide with the advent of modern medicine. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
searchinwithnoagenda Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 "miracles happen to coincide with..." YYYep!! Heads god wins, tails you lose. Gen 1:1 might ought to read: In the beginning, man created a humongo, ginormous ASSumption...and they bought it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Posted February 8, 2016 Author Share Posted February 8, 2016 If you haven't already, you might consider asking your wife about all the "overlooked" folks "god" did not heal of kidney cancer before the efforts of humans and the resulting modern medicine / cures we enjoy today. Beware of rationalization, the gift that keeps on giving. In some ways, I have to resort to subtle "evangelism" if you will. My wife is unaware that I have left the fold. There are a few reasons why she does not know that I can share, but I don't want to derail the thread. So I try to get her to see things a bit differently. It does work occasionally, so maybe at some point I can get enough cracks going to help "the cause". But I didn't push much because she is still grieving and I didn't want to be "that guy" and only create a wedge rather than be a help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Furball Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amateur Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 Oh, your poor wife! I'm sorry her grandfather died of kidney cancer. What a painful way to die. And then to have salt rubbed in her wounds by the ex-preacher who bragged on his own "healing by god" of his kidney cancer. I'm sure there were many others in that congregation who watched loved ones die in horrible ways, their prayers unanswered. I don't believe in any gods, but it's sad that people end up blaming themselves somehow (lack of faith) for something that is just a terrible disease that can't always be cured by modern medicine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted February 8, 2016 Super Moderator Share Posted February 8, 2016 The least deserving are often the most "blessed". That's how the kingdom of heaven works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLyniezian Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 I wouldn't quite have thought it at the time I beleived, but I guess this is one of those things that make it seem to make most sense of in the light of non-existence of the Christian god. Many prayer meetings I've sat in where we prayed for people who died of one reason or another, and had incurable health problems, or if they have been healed, it's as much down to the actions of medical professionals providing tratment as anything. Sure thank "God" if "God" is what orders the events that take place, but those events look pretty random in whether they have a good outcome or bad. It scarily reminds me of a documentary of where some doctor went into North Korea to operate on people with caaracts or some eye problem and what is the first thing the patients do when healed? Go before the photo of Kim Il Sung and Kim Jong Il on the wall, and thank the Dear Leader for making them able to see again, almost as if giving thanks to their god. Never mind the doctor. This may be a fear-based response, or otherwise for appearances, unlike a Christian-based one of faith, but even so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilith666 Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 I'm sorry about your wife's grandfather. It must have been terrible when the pastor twisted the knife like that. A church friend of my parents died yesterday from cancer. Good Christian just like the one in the OP - not that non-Christians are less deserving than believers, but god won't heal his own people. I think when I was in the cult, I sometimes felt like god sat up there in heaven fooling around with all of us and not telling his big godly secret reasons for not taking care of people he "loves." In a way, it's so much less frustrating knowing god isn't in control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
older Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 Sorry about the emotional stress this put on your wife. Regarding her belief, have you read Peter Boghossian's book, A Manual for Creating Atheists? It suggests ways to initiate conversations that lead people to question their beliefs in a non-confrontational way. When done well, the person comes to his or her own conclusion that it all doesn't make any sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Posted February 9, 2016 Author Share Posted February 9, 2016 Oh, your poor wife! I'm sorry her grandfather died of kidney cancer. What a painful way to die. And then to have salt rubbed in her wounds by the ex-preacher who bragged on his own "healing by god" of his kidney cancer. I'm sure there were many others in that congregation who watched loved ones die in horrible ways, their prayers unanswered. I don't believe in any gods, but it's sad that people end up blaming themselves somehow (lack of faith) for something that is just a terrible disease that can't always be cured by modern medicine. Thanks for your condolences. Thankfully he passed pretty quickly, and I don't think it was real painful. I agree that there probably were others there that experienced the same heartache. But their lives didn't change one bit because they cannot comprehend it any other way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Posted February 9, 2016 Author Share Posted February 9, 2016 The least deserving are often the most "blessed". That's how the kingdom of heaven works. Sad, but true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Posted February 9, 2016 Author Share Posted February 9, 2016 I wouldn't quite have thought it at the time I beleived, but I guess this is one of those things that make it seem to make most sense of in the light of non-existence of the Christian god. Many prayer meetings I've sat in where we prayed for people who died of one reason or another, and had incurable health problems, or if they have been healed, it's as much down to the actions of medical professionals providing tratment as anything. Sure thank "God" if "God" is what orders the events that take place, but those events look pretty random in whether they have a good outcome or bad. It scarily reminds me of a documentary of where some doctor went into North Korea to operate on people with caaracts or some eye problem and what is the first thing the patients do when healed? Go before the photo of Kim Il Sung and Kim Jong Il on the wall, and thank the Dear Leader for making them able to see again, almost as if giving thanks to their god. Never mind the doctor. This may be a fear-based response, or otherwise for appearances, unlike a Christian-based one of faith, but even so... I thought much of the same things you mentioned. I struggled with why god didn't heal more people. If he was so powerful and he cared so much, he sure didn't show it. I struggled with this for a long time. Now I know the answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Posted February 9, 2016 Author Share Posted February 9, 2016 I'm sorry about your wife's grandfather. It must have been terrible when the pastor twisted the knife like that. A church friend of my parents died yesterday from cancer. Good Christian just like the one in the OP - not that non-Christians are less deserving than believers, but god won't heal his own people. I think when I was in the cult, I sometimes felt like god sat up there in heaven fooling around with all of us and not telling his big godly secret reasons for not taking care of people he "loves." In a way, it's so much less frustrating knowing god isn't in control. Thanks Lilith. It sure hurt my wife, for sure. I also thought that about god: sitting up there like a kid with the ant farm and the magnifying glass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Posted February 9, 2016 Author Share Posted February 9, 2016 Sorry about the emotional stress this put on your wife. Regarding her belief, have you read Peter Boghossian's book, A Manual for Creating Atheists? It suggests ways to initiate conversations that lead people to question their beliefs in a non-confrontational way. When done well, the person comes to his or her own conclusion that it all doesn't make any sense. I have not read that book. Looks like I can add it to my future reads. Thanks for the mention. Thanks for your sympathy as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Furball Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 The least deserving are often the most "blessed". That's how the kingdom of heaven works. I see I am not the only one that has noticed this. Like Storm said, sad, but true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdelsolray Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 The evidence reveals that all such "credit" is assigned by humans and comes from no other source. Simple projection of wishful thinking. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Furball Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 But the other thing that I hate is that Christians don't blame god for anything. They believe that he orders that world, yet he allows horrible things to happen. But its all just part of his big plan. Its all because of sin. Hogwash. Pure unadulterated hogwash. Your so right Storm. That little 3 letter word....sin, is what gets god off the hook every time. I am appalled that christians defend this psychopath called god who causes horrible suffering and ultimately death and hell to his own creatures. The whole thing is just sick. Christians claim that christianity has all the answers, yet the only answers they seem to be able to give is, "it's god's plan", or "god works in mysterious ways" etc. I am so sorry for your family's loss. I have lost a lot of people close to me and I know how devastating it is. I wish you and your wife well and hope the healing process has begun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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