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Goodbye Jesus

Why I Am Going Back To Church


Daffodil

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I feel for you Daffodil.  At least you were finally able to get some honest communication.  This is a difficult situation and it will be hard to find a compromise for everyone.

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If it is more for social reasons why can't he just go alone? Surely he can understand that you don't want to go and its unfair of him to ask you to just so he can feel better?

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If it is more for social reasons why can't he just go alone? Surely he can understand that you don't want to go and its unfair of him to ask you to just so he can feel better?

 

My thoughts too. 

 

If he really wants to go, then he can go. I don't see why this has to be some sort of compromise. Is it for "image"? Got to have that perfect unified family?

 

It just seems to me that career is an excuse to go. I don't know anyone who's career would be tanked by not going to church, as "where do you go to church" can easily be answered with "we study faith at home". Or he can occasionally go to a church and claim it. "Oh I go to XYZ from time to time."

 

If he loses a job because of "no church", that sounds like grounds for a discrimination lawsuit.

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     Don't go back to church until they do a sequel.  They've ran this show into the ground.

 

          mwc

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Jeff requested reports on the stupid stuff they do. So far, we have sung songs about how we are as low as dirt and thoroughly unworthy of life. Only god's love and mercy saves us. Apparently we are incapable of anything good, according to the songs. The pastor told us how important it was to find your calling and serve within the church one Sunday, then started the guilt trip on giving to the next million dollar building expansion kick. I don't know how long I'll be able to do this.

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Personally, I don't think it sounds like a healthy environment, especially for someone who has been through the self-flagellation and expectations of giving the church money. How long ago did you quit, Daffodil?

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Personally, I don't think it sounds like a healthy environment, especially for someone who has been through the self-flagellation and expectations of giving the church money. How long ago did you quit, Daffodil?

We quit going in December of 2014, so just over a year. I was in a bad mood this past Sunday, so that didn't help. I ran into the leader of a women's group I had been involved in a couple years ago and she was all, "I've been thinking about you! So good to see you again! How are things going? Are you going to the Women's Retreat?" Wanted to say oh, HELL no, but knew that wouldn't be appropriate. Checked my mail and read a blog post during the sermon (we had to sit at the back this time (yay!)) so it wasn't a total time waster. ;)

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I meant, how long ago did you quit Christianity? I was thinking the church messages affect people differently depending on how long they have been out of the cult.

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I meant, how long ago did you quit Christianity? I was thinking the church messages affect people differently depending on how long they have been out of the cult.

It was a long slow process of deconversion, but the light bulb finally blazed on about two years ago. I'm thoroughly deconverted. I didn't even stop at agnosticism on the way. What's ironic is that it was my husband's doubts that opened the door for me to really examine my own doubts without fear. Now he wants to keep a tie of sorts and I am just through with it.

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If this is 60 or 70% social reasons, as he told you earlier...then why can't he just join a club or something? Pick up a hobby, go fishing with a bunch of guys or something...more productive and uplifting than every Sunday of "we are worthless, oh lawd."

 

Sounds like to me his doubts aren't nearly as strong. In fact, I would say he's drifting back into christian fantasy land. I can't imagine an agnostic/atheist wanting to go to church and hear the message you reported on, unless they had a damn good reason - and a social reason wouldn't be that good, at least for me.

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If this is 60 or 70% social reasons, as he told you earlier...then why can't he just join a club or something? Pick up a hobby, go fishing with a bunch of guys or something...more productive and uplifting than every Sunday of "we are worthless, oh lawd."

 

Sounds like to me his doubts aren't nearly as strong. In fact, I would say he's drifting back into christian fantasy land. I can't imagine an agnostic/atheist wanting to go to church and hear the message you reported on, unless they had a damn good reason - and a social reason wouldn't be that good, at least for me.

I'm not sure he even understands what is going on in his head with this.  He explained a long time ago that it goes back to his childhood.  He was raised by two people who had no use for church or church people - one just didn't care and the other had deep-seated animosity toward Christians.  They never went to church in a part of the country where everyone goes to church, and he watched all his friends and neighbors leave every Sunday morning while they stayed home.  He felt like his family was abnormal and he wanted desperately to be "normal".  He still claims to be agnostic, but insists that there are good messages in Christianity about how to treat others and that only Christians ask questions about how your relationship with your kids is going.  If I could find a strong humanist or atheist group in our area to expose him to, I would do it in a heartbeat, but it just doesn't exist here unless it's tied in to the university or something.  Every time he tries to pull the morality argument on me, I remind him that Christianity doesn't teach anything that one can't learn elsewhere and is not the originator of morality.  It usually comes up in relation to raising moral kids and I am quick to give the humanist response to any Christian argument he presents.  Now that I think about it, he may be afraid the kids will grow up feeling the way he did if we stop going to church.

 

I don't know.  We can try to analyze him till our heads explode, but that won't change the situation.  I really appreciate all your thoughts on this.  I'm so glad I have a place to talk about this stuff because it would be very isolating without you guys.  Thanks!

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In a conversation with someone once about his failing marriage, a friend of mine said his counselor told him that when things looked bad, to ask himself, "What is the worst thing that could happen because of this?" An honest answer often reveals that the situation, although difficult, is survivable.

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Daffodil, I understand. You're doing what you feel like you need to do in your life at this particular time. Who knows, it might just blow its course here soon.

 

I think it's hard for anyone who doesn't live in the Bible Belt to understand life in the Bible Belt. I'm in liberal Seattle, and I still feel pressured not to talk harshly about Christianity on my personal facebook or Pinterest, because of how it could affect my kids. My kids are friends with kids who come from Christian families (I'm not talking about old church people, IDGAF what they think... I'm talking about new friends that they've made at school), and I don't want to put an image out there of myself that would make the mamas hesitate to let their kids hang out with my kids. And this is in SEATTLE. I can only imagine what it's like for you down there.

 

You're doing your best at this time and in your culture. I get it. 

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I guess society will never be pushed to accept nonbelievers due to our invisibility and fear. I'm glad at least the gays had the balls to stand up, be counted and change things. Comfort and complacency is the enemy of progress.

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I think Daffodil and I both have plenty of balls. We both publicly came out to the world. Not saying that those who choose NOT to come out don't have balls. I just think there's a lot of judgment toward her on this thread, which sucks, because she's just here to vent about it. It's not like she likes it. Plus, no one even knows, this might be a temporary thing that even the husband after six months is like "Never mind, fuck this." But right now, she's choosing to elevate a loved one above all of the "being a personal freedom fighter" stuff, and that's okay. They are both worthy endeavors. I get the frustration, though, at feeling like there's one less "soldier" so to speak. But I think we also need to be gentle with one another here. I even saw an almost-accusation on this thread that she's drifting back into belief, and another comment where her husband was called a dick. Not gentle.

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I just could never find a reasonable defense for pretending to be someone I'm not. I could have saved a lot of arguments with my dad if I had lied, but I loved and respected both of us too much to be dishonest. I took a little crap from my last boss when I said I didn't go to a church because I didn't believe any of that stuff. Then another atheist at work approached me, saying he thought he was the only one and he was relieved and encouraged when he found out about me. Maintaining a false peace at the expense of my integrity just isn't my thing. Sorry.

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I'm on the fence with this one. I'm far too rebellious to not be compelled to buck the crowd and be up front with my beliefs. But at the same time, even gays still stay closeted or move to bigger cities if they are from small southern towns. I met quite of a few of them in DC. Having never lived, or even really been in a small southern town, I guess it's hard to understand. 

 

In Boise, where I grew up, it's been common since I was in HS to see a plethora of Darwin Fish and while we had our share of religious nuts, at times, it was they, not the atheists, who were on the defense. And, of course, in Europe or DC where I've also lived, truly no one gives a shit. 

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Daffodil, I understand. You're doing what you feel like you need to do in your life at this particular time. Who knows, it might just blow its course here soon.

 

I think it's hard for anyone who doesn't live in the Bible Belt to understand life in the Bible Belt. I'm in liberal Seattle, and I still feel pressured not to talk harshly about Christianity on my personal facebook or Pinterest, because of how it could affect my kids. My kids are friends with kids who come from Christian families (I'm not talking about old church people, IDGAF what they think... I'm talking about new friends that they've made at school), and I don't want to put an image out there of myself that would make the mamas hesitate to let their kids hang out with my kids. And this is in SEATTLE. I can only imagine what it's like for you down there.

 

You're doing your best at this time and in your culture. I get it. 

 

I agree.  In the Bible Belt, and especially in the more rural areas, the church is the institution that many people's social lives are constructed around.  Many also have strong family connections and emotional ties to their church, and also may have never really been around or interacted with people of different faiths or with people who are vocal about their non-belief.

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Second Sunday in a row that we missed church today. :) Hubby admitted he likes the "idea" of going to church more than actually going to church, lol! We'll see what happens!

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Woo hoo! Perhaps you'll end up as X2 Christians. (X2 = going to church twice a year: Christmas and Easter.)

 

 

Another thought..... tapering it off slowly. Every two weeks for two months, then every three weeks, for a while, etc. In time no one will notice that you aren't there regularly, and by the summer you'll be off the hook. You can still claim membership like all the other X2 Christians do.

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