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Where's That Skeptical Appraisal, Ironhorse..?


bornagainathiest

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Hello.  smile.png

 

Back in October last year the Christian member called Ironhorse started this this thread... http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/70082-baptists/#.VummseKLRD8

In it he was asked if he had skeptically appraised his Christian faith.  That is, had he examined it from a skeptical p.o.v., rather than simply accepting it by faith.  On page 4 (post # 76) he made this reply.

 

As I have said here more than once, I have already been through the process of skeptically appraising God, the Bible, and the Christian faith. I spent several years doing that and have spent all my life trying to get to the truth of things. I don't claim to know everything about God or the scriptures, but what I know is enough for me to believe it's true. It is what I believe.

 

That was October 25th.

Since he made that claim he's been repeatedly asked by different members (mostly Duderonomy, the Redneck Prof and myself) to present us with his skeptical appraisal of God, the Bible and the Christian faith.  The appraisal he's spent several years doing.  Since Ironhorse has spent all of his life trying to get to the truth of things, you'd think he'd understand our frustration at not being able to get to the truth of his claim.  But, nearly five months have elapsed and he still hasn't come thru.  So, let's ask him once again.

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Could you please show us your skeptical appraisal of God, the Bible and the Christian faith, Ironhorse..?

 

Thanks,

 

BAA.

 

 

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IH. Just admit it and be done with it. You believe even though you have no rational reason for doing so. So what?

You can still believe. No one's stopping you but you are just lying to yourself and it's blatantly obvious to us because we've been there already.

 

If you still want to hold on to that fantasy then give BAA what you promised.

Either way I could respect you but you're just dodging by not providing anything.

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In my opinion, his silence speaks volumes.

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Ironhorse said he's here to represent his faith. It would seem that if he wants to evangelize, one of the first things he would want to do here, of all places, is show us what he learned by skeptically appraising his faith. You know, in case we missed something.

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I suspect Ironhorse does not quite understand the concept of objective skepticism.

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Folks,

 

For the sake of clarification, let me make it clear that the skeptical appraisal of God, the Bible and the Christian faith that Duderonomy, the Redneck Prof and I are asking to see is the one that he spent several years doing, quoted in the OP.  This is different from the... essay about ...his skeptical appraisal, which Ironhorse mentioned here... http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/71158-with-god-all-things-are-possible/?hl=+skeptical%20+appraisal#.VusyP-KLRD8(post # 22)

 

Posted 14 January 2016 - 08:17 PM

I am however, at present, working on an essay of how I took a skeptic's view of the Christian faith  and still found it the belief system I was going to accept for my life.  I only have an outline and a first draft so far. I will post as a new thread as soon as I get to a final copy. 

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Quite why Ironhorse can't present his... original ...skeptical appraisal to us, I don't know!  Wendyshrug.gif  I can only hazard a range of explanations for why he hasn't presented it to us yet and leave you to select which one you think is the most likely.

 

1.  It never existed on paper or on computer, being held entirely within Ironhorse's memory.  He therefore has to recall it from memory as a kind of retrospective essay.  No wonder this is taking so long.

 

2.  It did exist on paper or on computer, but he's mislaid it.  He therefore has to try and recall it from memory as a kind of retrospective essay.  No wonder this is taking him so long.

 

3.  It never existed at all, but he genuinely believes (by faith) that it did.  And if we had enough faith, we would believe that it existed too.  And therefore, having believed - we wouldn't need to see it.

 

4.  It did exist, but only in the form of ancient scrolls and papyri.  Ironhorse has to transcribe the Aramaic and Koine into English so that we can read it.  No wonder this is taking him so long.

 

5.  It never existed and he naively expected us to accept that it did on faith.   But he was caught out when we skeptics asked him to present his evidence.  

 

 

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Yeah...that evidence thing.  That's one of the parts I doubt he understands.

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BUMP!!!

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I suspect Ironhorse does not quite understand the concept of objective skepticism.

 

I came in here to say much the same thing.

 

For ironhorse to perform an objective, skeptical appraisal of his religion, he would have to first understand what that means, and then actually submit his religious beliefs to that appraisal.

 

In all of his posts here, he has not shown even a hint of that kind of intellectual ability. He is someone who has convinced himself he is a thinker because he likes what he considers to be "deep" song lyrics, but he hasn't shown that he can engage in any thinking of his own at all.

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If you are unable to doubt your world view then you cannot skeptically appraise it. In any case though, the world keeps spinning in spite of our world view.

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • Super Moderator

BUMP BUMP!!!

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Ya'll got more patience than me. 

 

He ain't ever going to provide his evidence or his appraisal. 

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Yeah...that evidence thing.  That's one of the parts I doubt he understands.

 

His faith is his evidence.  I know from another post of his on another thread that his faith has set him free to eat anchovies. I was teetering on the brink about Ironhorse, but in the face of proof like that, what can I do?

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Keeping the faith alive.

Bump

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Bumpity

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Please TheRedneckProfessor,

 

Don't waste those crickets here! It's time to go fishing. We caught a few bass and crappie today. 

 

Just saying things have been busy and a few troubles along the way. One being a little trouble with this wood burning laptop I'm using and our internet connection. 

 

I will post a thread on my story when I'm ready to post it. 

 

I know some here are waiting to trash whatever I write and tell me how stupid and dishonest I am, but please be patient.

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My, my, my.

 

His essay of his 'skeptical appraisal', at one point in 'outline form with a first draft', has morphed into 'my story'.

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Please TheRedneckProfessor,

 

Don't waste those crickets here! It's time to go fishing. We caught a few bass and crappie today. 

 

Just saying things have been busy and a few troubles along the way. One being a little trouble with this wood burning laptop I'm using and our internet connection. 

 

I will post a thread on my story when I'm ready to post it. 

 

I know some here are waiting to trash whatever I write and tell me how stupid and dishonest I am, but please be patient.

 

Don't be stupid and dishonest and you won't have a problem. 

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Actually IH I am waiting to hear something insightful from you. Read what I just said again please?

 

The bashing comes due to the poor logic and deflection tactics you employ so often. I have no desire to bash but your replies so often demand it. They are usually rather weak and you wield them like they are weighty.

 

I personally get no joy from saying insulting things about your posts. But you have chosen to represent Christ here on a site that helps people deconvert and honestly you bring little to help your cause. I think you will deconvert yourself someday.

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Please TheRedneckProfessor,

 

Don't waste those crickets here! It's time to go fishing. We caught a few bass and crappie today. 

 

Just saying things have been busy and a few troubles along the way. One being a little trouble with this wood burning laptop I'm using and our internet connection. 

 

I will post a thread on my story when I'm ready to post it. 

 

I know some here are waiting to trash whatever I write and tell me how stupid and dishonest I am, but please be patient.

Forgive me if I don't piss myself in anticipation.  I'd rather have a Cheerwine from you than more excuses.

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Bump for the lurkers

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ironhorse, you would gain a lot of respect here if you only told the truth: that you didn't perform any "skeptical appraisal" of your faith, and that you just made up the fact that you did because you didn't expect to be called out on it and provide a detailed account of what this "skeptical appraisal" entailed.

 

Go on. Be an adult. Just admit you lied about having performed a "skeptical appraisal," and we can all move on.

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ironhorse, you would gain a lot of respect here if you only told the truth: that you didn't perform any "skeptical appraisal" of your faith, and that you just made up the fact that you did because you didn't expect to be called out on it and provide a detailed account of what this "skeptical appraisal" entailed.

 

Go on. Be an adult. Just admit you lied about having performed a "skeptical appraisal," and we can all move on.

 

 

Admit that I lied?

 

Why do you accuse me of being a liar?

 

What do you know about me or my life?

 

Why, when I have mentioned several times here in the Lion's Den about my life here and how I went through a period where I questioned the Christian faith, you say I didn't?

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ironhorse, you would gain a lot of respect here if you only told the truth: that you didn't perform any "skeptical appraisal" of your faith, and that you just made up the fact that you did because you didn't expect to be called out on it and provide a detailed account of what this "skeptical appraisal" entailed.

 

Go on. Be an adult. Just admit you lied about having performed a "skeptical appraisal," and we can all move on.

 

 

Perhaps Ironhorse believes a skeptical appraisal of his religious faith simply involves listening to or reading Bob Dylan or Bono lyrics, navigating to a website about TS Eliot, reading that his religion is primarily responsible for Western Civilization or asking questions of his pastor.  Perhaps.  If that's what he thinks it is, then he has already told the "truth", according to Ironhorse.  Perhaps.

 

Of course, then there's the part where Ironhorse claimed he had already prepared an "outline" and a "draft" of his skeptical appraisal, which strongly implies he created something in writing.

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