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Goodbye Jesus

Your God Is Too Small


ironhorse

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IH you personal story about the shitty preacher trying to scare you as a kid is very similar to experiences I had.

It was traumatizing and is emotional abuse by a leadership figure.

But the problem is... He was right if you actually beleive the bible. I did as a child and into my adult years unfortunately.

The bible is full of painful disturbing images and conflicting frightening possibilities... Again if you beleive it.

It's such relief when one learns that you don't have to make excuses any more for the barbaric texts and nonsensical rules that we didn't follow and then had to rationalize why.

Stepping back and realizing "oh, it's because it's just shit patched together over ages by uneducated cruel frightened superstitious men". Oh well that's alright then. I'll just go live my life and no longer worry about it.

 

I know you don't think the bible is worthless like I do, but your actions tell a different story. You deny clearly written text and give it meanings that are much softer using wording that does not appear in your "holy" book.

Your actions speak volumes to those scared people who lurk here hoping to find a way through the fog of religion. You are truly representing your beliefs here except your beliefs don't really match your rule book. Irony.

 

Lurkers. It's ok. Let it go and enjoy your life. Stop twisting yourself into a pretzel trying to make sense of that literary disaster.

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So why is there no armor for a Christian's back in the panoplia, Ironhorse?

 

http://biblehub.com/greek/3833.htm

 

Please note that if you refuse to answer this question ...I'll do it for you and explain how the answer applies to you.

 

Answer please!

 

 

Q.

Why is there no spiritual armor for a Christian's back?

 

https://www.tgm.org/aogWholeArmor.htm

 

A.

Because a Christian is never to turn their back in cowardice and run away.

 

Lurkers and members please take note.

 

This is exactly what Ironhorse did here... http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/72646-how-to-make-a-christian-absolutely-livid/page-2#.V0VMwvkrJD9

 

So please do not take what he writes about Christ, Christianity or the Bible as trustworthy.

 

He has shown himself to be unfit and unworthy to fight the good fight.

 

Thanks,

 

BAA.

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So why is there no armor for a Christian's back in the panoplia, Ironhorse?

 

http://biblehub.com/greek/3833.htm

 

Please note that if you refuse to answer this question ...I'll do it for you and explain how the answer applies to you.

 

Answer please!

 

 

Q.

Why is there no spiritual armor for a Christian's back?

 

https://www.tgm.org/aogWholeArmor.htm

 

A.

Because a Christian is never to turn their back in cowardice and run away.

 

Lurkers and members please take note.

 

This is exactly what Ironhorse did here... http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/72646-how-to-make-a-christian-absolutely-livid/page-2#.V0VMwvkrJD9

 

So please do not take what he writes about Christ, Christianity or the Bible as trustworthy.

 

He has shown himself to be unfit and unworthy to fight the good fight.

 

Thanks,

 

BAA.

 

 

But Jesus laid his back bare for the rest of us, and by His stripes we are healed, BAA, so it's all good!

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IH you personal story about the shitty preacher trying to scare you as a kid is very similar to experiences I had.

It was traumatizing and is emotional abuse by a leadership figure.

But the problem is... He was right if you actually beleive the bible. I did as a child and into my adult years unfortunately.

The bible is full of painful disturbing images and conflicting frightening possibilities... Again if you beleive it.

It's such relief when one learns that you don't have to make excuses any more for the barbaric texts and nonsensical rules that we didn't follow and then had to rationalize why.

Stepping back and realizing "oh, it's because it's just shit patched together over ages by uneducated cruel frightened superstitious men". Oh well that's alright then. I'll just go live my life and no longer worry about it.

 

I know you don't think the bible is worthless like I do, but your actions tell a different story. You deny clearly written text and give it meanings that are much softer using wording that does not appear in your "holy" book.

Your actions speak volumes to those scared people who lurk here hoping to find a way through the fog of religion. You are truly representing your beliefs here except your beliefs don't really match your rule book. Irony.

 

Lurkers. It's ok. Let it go and enjoy your life. Stop twisting yourself into a pretzel trying to make sense of that literary disaster.

 

 

 

I realize we don’t agree but I do appreciate that you read what I post and you do present your view very well and point out where you think I am wrong.

 

It has never been my intention here to try to badger or attempt to convert or personally attack members.  I am just trying to present a view of the Christian faith that I think is way too often twisted and mixed with damaging and erroneous viewpoints.

 

When discussing or disagreeing on a topic, I try to attack only the idea, not the person who holds that idea. If at the end we disagree, I guess we can just agree that we disagree. 

 

My mother was raised in a church that relied heavily on emotions and fears. She heard this false message about the unpardonable sin many times. At 13 I did not know this at the time, but this is what she meant by going through this hell before to me. I learned years later talking to her about just how much hell this (and other false teachings) had caused her. It took decades for her to eventually get free of it. The destructive and negative impact this caused my mom, I guess, is one reason I have fought against these teachings.

 

I have tried to answer the questioned concerning the Unpardonable Sin. I understand you think I overlooked Matthew 12:32 and have simply “cherry picked” what I want to believe. I guess we will have to leave it at that.

I’m sorry that you and other people were fed this false and devastating teaching. not only this one but also other ones.

 

Like I said before, there are dozens of sites online explaining these verses, if you or others who are interested in further study. I don’t think it is necessary for me to continue adding to what I have already posted.

 

I agree that way too many do “cherry pick” the scriptures.  I could easily take scripture out of context to imply just about anything I wanted. I can make the Bible seem to support modern polygamy, slavery, hatred, execution of homosexuals, violence against women, not to eat oyster po-boys, not to eat meat of any kind, crusades against people of other faiths and on and on.

 

I really do try not to do that. I might be thought of as a liar or an idiot or whatever but in my heart I do try to find what the scriptures say and to express it the best I can. 

 

Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

~ 2 Timothy 2:15 King James (KJV)

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Why would an omniscient god need dozens of websites to explain ONE simple verse in his (supposedly) divinely inspired word?

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I agree that way too many do “cherry pick” the scriptures.  I could easily take scripture out of context to imply just about anything I wanted. I can make the Bible seem to support modern polygamy, slavery, hatred, execution of homosexuals, violence against women, not to eat oyster po-boys, not to eat meat of any kind, crusades against people of other faiths and on and on.

 

I really do try not to do that. I might be thought of as a liar or an idiot or whatever but in my heart I do try to find what the scriptures say and to express it the best I can. 

 

 

I don't doubt your sincerity, nor do I doubt the sincerity of most of the other cherry pickers. You don't even see it, do you?

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First, to answer florduh's question: Yes, they still make unfiltered Lucky Strikes. In certain regions of the country they might be hard to find but they still made. Luckies were my brand when I smoked years ago. 

 

Would you mind sending me a pack?

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I agree that way too many do “cherry pick” the scriptures.  I could easily take scripture out of context to imply just about anything I wanted. I can make the Bible seem to support modern polygamy, slavery, hatred, execution of homosexuals, violence against women, not to eat oyster po-boys, not to eat meat of any kind, crusades against people of other faiths and on and on.

 

I really do try not to do that. I might be thought of as a liar or an idiot or whatever but in my heart I do try to find what the scriptures say and to express it the best I can. 

 

 

I don't doubt your sincerity, nor do I doubt the sincerity of most of the other cherry pickers. You don't even see it, do you?

 

 

 

No, I don't see or understand your point or what you think I should see.

 

I do question what others say the scriptures teach. I do point out what I see as false teaching.

 

This questioning and searching is something the scriptures tell us to do.

 

What do you think I am so blind to?

 

 

And...going way off topic

 

First, to answer florduh's question: Yes, they still make unfiltered Lucky Strikes. In certain regions of the country they might be hard to find but they still made. Luckies were my brand when I smoked years ago.

 

Would you mind sending me a pack?

~ TheRedneckProfessor

 

 

PM me about that, just please don't add a request for a case of Cheerwine in glass bottles. I could not pay the shipping charges. 

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I am just trying to present a view of the Christian faith that I think is way too often twisted and mixed with damaging and erroneous viewpoints.

 

And all the other Christians who present their viewpoint as the True and Untwisted version are different how?

 

See it yet?

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I am just trying to present a view of the Christian faith that I think is way too often twisted and mixed with damaging and erroneous viewpoints.

 

And all the other Christians who present their viewpoint as the True and Untwisted version are different how?

 

See it yet?

 

 

(Bumped on behalf of Florduh.)

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First, to answer florduh's question: Yes, they still make unfiltered Lucky Strikes. In certain regions of the country they might be hard to find but they still made. Luckies were my brand when I smoked years ago. 

 

Would you mind sending me a pack?

 

they are sold everywhere at smoke shops where I live.  We have a lot of actual smoke shops, not just places to grab a pack of butts. I don't smoke but I used to. american spirits and lucky strikes. 

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And all the other Christians who present their viewpoint as the True and Untwisted version are different how?
See it yet?

 

 

First, I did not present my view as the True and Untwisted version.

I am just trying to present a view of the Christian faith that I think is way too often twisted and mixed with damaging and erroneous viewpoints.

 

The “just trying” and “I think” is not me claiming the True version in all my comments. I can be sure there are some topics I can believe as absolutely true according to scriptures. 

 

 

These are topics the scriptures are very clear about. These are considered the fundamentals or essential teachings:

-The Sole Authority of the Bible
-The Deity of Christ
-Man is sinful and in need of salvation
-Jesus died a substitutionary atoning death for our sins; and rose bodily from the dead
-Salvation is by grace through faith

 

Any person or group teaching different is wrong.
Example:
Jehovah’s Witnesses deny the divinity of Christ. This is a gross error of what the scriptures state. 

 

The scriptures warn several times to beware of false teachings. On these type of gross errors I can be confident in pointing them out as errors.

 

 

they are sold everywhere at smoke shops where I live.  We have a lot of actual smoke shops, not just places to grab a pack of butts. I don't smoke but I used to. american spirits and lucky strikes.
~ miamia

 

 

I’m a member of an online smoker’s forum. They have off topic sub forum where I post. Luckies are still popular with more smokers than I thought. I also smoked American Spirits for awhile. 

 

Adding the following in case a member here is thinking of quitting or knows someone who would like to quit:

Here is the way I stopped:

 

First don’t buy into the government propaganda that nicotine is as physically addictive as heroin. Caffeine might be, but not nicotine.

Smoking is basically a personal and social habit. It becomes just what you do,  like when you get up in the morning, finish a meal or go to a party.

 

Buy your favorite brand of cigs and put the pack in the butter tray section of your fridge. (unopened)

 

Here’s the Three Point Plan:

 

- Do not tell yourself you will never smoke again just promise to yourself you are not going to smoke for the next 21 days.

- After the 21 days if you feel like a smoke light one up. If not, you can wait until another time. If you do light up, you have not failed and KNOW that this does mean you will slide back into your old smoking pattern, you KNOW you can go 21 days or more without a smoke.

- Always keep that pack in the fridge just in case.

 

After a few months, you might or might not occasionally smoke. I did this for two years where I was down to one pack every 4 months. I was down to only smoking one with my morning cup of coffee. As time moved on, even that morning cig went away.
For over ten years now, I have not had a smoke at all.

 

I still keep a pack of Luckies in the butter tray just in case.

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And all the other Christians who present their viewpoint as the True and Untwisted version are different how?

See it yet?

 

 

First, I did not present my view as the True and Untwisted version.

I am just trying to present a view of the Christian faith that I think is way too often twisted and mixed with damaging and erroneous viewpoints.

 

The “just trying” and “I think” is not me claiming the True version in all my comments. I can be sure there are some topics I can believe as absolutely true according to scriptures. 

 

 

These are topics the scriptures are very clear about. These are considered the fundamentals or essential teachings:

-The Sole Authority of the Bible

-The Deity of Christ

-Man is sinful and in need of salvation

-Jesus died a substitutionary atoning death for our sins; and rose bodily from the dead

-Salvation is by grace through faith

 

Any person or group teaching different is wrong.

Example:

Jehovah’s Witnesses deny the divinity of Christ. This is a gross error of what the scriptures state. 

 

The scriptures warn several times to beware of false teachings. On these type of gross errors I can be confident in pointing them out as errors.

 

 

they are sold everywhere at smoke shops where I live.  We have a lot of actual smoke shops, not just places to grab a pack of butts. I don't smoke but I used to. american spirits and lucky strikes.

~ miamia

 

 

I’m a member of an online smoker’s forum. They have off topic sub forum where I post. Luckies are still popular with more smokers than I thought. I also smoked American Spirits for awhile. 

 

Adding the following in case a member here is thinking of quitting or knows someone who would like to quit:

Here is the way I stopped:

 

First don’t buy into the government propaganda that nicotine is as physically addictive as heroin. Caffeine might be, but not nicotine.

Smoking is basically a personal and social habit. It becomes just what you do,  like when you get up in the morning, finish a meal or go to a party.

 

Buy your favorite brand of cigs and put the pack in the butter tray section of your fridge. (unopened)

 

Here’s the Three Point Plan:

 

- Do not tell yourself you will never smoke again just promise to yourself you are not going to smoke for the next 21 days.

- After the 21 days if you feel like a smoke light one up. If not, you can wait until another time. If you do light up, you have not failed and KNOW that this does mean you will slide back into your old smoking pattern, you KNOW you can go 21 days or more without a smoke.

- Always keep that pack in the fridge just in case.

 

After a few months, you might or might not occasionally smoke. I did this for two years where I was down to one pack every 4 months. I was down to only smoking one with my morning cup of coffee. As time moved on, even that morning cig went away.

For over ten years now, I have not had a smoke at all.

 

I still keep a pack of Luckies in the butter tray just in case.

I have quit a few times, I always found it helpful to wait as late in the day as i could to smoke one, its harder to resist smoking another if you have already had one that day, I would push it later and later in the day, until i was no longer smoking at all.

It is also vastly easier to quit american spirits than it is, marlboros for example. THE ONLY people i know who can have the self control to smoke only one or two a day, are the ones who smoke american spirits, and I know several. Anecdotal, I know, but yes. I'm pretty sure just nicotine is not nearly as addictive as all the other garbage they put in some cigarettes. 

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I’m a member of an online smoker’s forum. They have off topic sub forum where I post. Luckies are still popular with more smokers than I thought. I also smoked American Spirits for awhile. 

 

Adding the following in case a member here is thinking of quitting or knows someone who would like to quit:

Here is the way I stopped:

 

I prayed and asked god to deliver me from nicotine addiction; and he did!  Prayer works!

...Or is your god too small, Ironhorse?

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And all the other Christians who present their viewpoint as the True and Untwisted version are different how?

See it yet?

 

 

First, I did not present my view as the True and Untwisted version.

I am just trying to present a view of the Christian faith that I think is way too often twisted and mixed with damaging and erroneous viewpoints.

 

The “just trying” and “I think” is not me claiming the True version in all my comments. I can be sure there are some topics I can believe as absolutely true according to scriptures. 

 

 

These are topics the scriptures are very clear about. These are considered the fundamentals or essential teachings:

-The Sole Authority of the Bible

-The Deity of Christ

-Man is sinful and in need of salvation

-Jesus died a substitutionary atoning death for our sins; and rose bodily from the dead

-Salvation is by grace through faith

 

Any person or group teaching different is wrong.

Example:

Jehovah’s Witnesses deny the divinity of Christ. This is a gross error of what the scriptures state. 

 

The scriptures warn several times to beware of false teachings. On these type of gross errors I can be confident in pointing them out as errors.

 

 

they are sold everywhere at smoke shops where I live.  We have a lot of actual smoke shops, not just places to grab a pack of butts. I don't smoke but I used to. american spirits and lucky strikes.

~ miamia

 

 

I’m a member of an online smoker’s forum. They have off topic sub forum where I post. Luckies are still popular with more smokers than I thought. I also smoked American Spirits for awhile. 

 

Adding the following in case a member here is thinking of quitting or knows someone who would like to quit:

Here is the way I stopped:

 

First don’t buy into the government propaganda that nicotine is as physically addictive as heroin. Caffeine might be, but not nicotine.

Smoking is basically a personal and social habit. It becomes just what you do,  like when you get up in the morning, finish a meal or go to a party.

 

Buy your favorite brand of cigs and put the pack in the butter tray section of your fridge. (unopened)

 

Here’s the Three Point Plan:

 

- Do not tell yourself you will never smoke again just promise to yourself you are not going to smoke for the next 21 days.

- After the 21 days if you feel like a smoke light one up. If not, you can wait until another time. If you do light up, you have not failed and KNOW that this does mean you will slide back into your old smoking pattern, you KNOW you can go 21 days or more without a smoke.

- Always keep that pack in the fridge just in case.

 

After a few months, you might or might not occasionally smoke. I did this for two years where I was down to one pack every 4 months. I was down to only smoking one with my morning cup of coffee. As time moved on, even that morning cig went away.

For over ten years now, I have not had a smoke at all.

 

I still keep a pack of Luckies in the butter tray just in case.

I have quit a few times, I always found it helpful to wait as late in the day as i could to smoke one, its harder to resist smoking another if you have already had one that day, I would push it later and later in the day, until i was no longer smoking at all.

It is also vastly easier to quit american spirits than it is, marlboros for example. THE ONLY people i know who can have the self control to smoke only one or two a day, are the ones who smoke american spirits, and I know several. Anecdotal, I know, but yes. I'm pretty sure just nicotine is not nearly as addictive as all the other garbage they put in some cigarettes. 

 

 

 

I'm pretty sure just nicotine is not nearly as addictive as all the other garbage they put in some cigarettes.

 

I agree about the additives and other garbage used.

 

The medicinal and other agricultural uses of tobacco are now being researched. I read a book on the history of the plant and even as far back in North and South America the native people were using it to aid a range of illnesses. From what I have read Indians did not use tobacco daily for smoking. Research is going on to develop biofuels using tobacco. Unlike corn and sorghum, which can also be transformed into fuel products, tobacco has no role in the food chain. The plant has many uses.

I prayed and asked god to deliver me from nicotine addiction; and he did!  Prayer works!

...Or is your god too small, Ironhorse?

~ TheRedneckProfessor

 

I think the scriptures teach that God would like us to show some effort in all the things we do.

“Whatever you do, work at it with all your heart, as working for the Lord, not for men.”

~ Colossians 3:23

 

And as the saying goes, Trust God and keep your powder dry. 

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...He fails to fulfill what we expect of Him."

~ J. B. Phillips

 

Why not? He created us, right? He supposedly gave us curiosity AND rationality, but then gave us a vague book of contradicting claims and orders, then proceeded to allow the devil to plant 100's of other vague and contrary books all giving more vague and contradicting stories about gods(including more vague and contradicting orders about how to live), with some people even believing he allowed satan to plant fake fossils and fake the age of the earth as some grand BS faith-test, which if we fail, we all get sent to hell. 

 

Considering that he is an immortal ruler of the universe with wisdom and knowledge beyond, he could take a few minutes out of his day to kindly explain to us the overall truth without muddling the message and expecting us puny, small minded idiots not to fuck up figuring out the complete and utter mess of claims and problems associated with his behavior.

 

So I prefer it much easier - Sagan had it right. Your god, IH, is way too small for my universe and his piss poor example and instruction smacks much more of a small-time War Lord in Africa then it does of an all powerful creator. Be rid of the believe of yahweh and it all makes sense! Awesome how that happens.

 

 

 

 

”He fails to fulfill what we expect of Him."

~ J. B. Phillips

 

You quote only the end of a very long sentence.

“I do not pretend to understand the ways of God any more than the next man; but it is surely more fitting as well as more sensible for us to study what God does do and what He does not do as He works in and through the complex fabric of this disintegrated world, than to postulate what we think God ought to do and then feel demoralized and bitterly disappointed because He fails to fulfill what we expect of Him."

 

 

Phillips is not saying God has failed us, he is saying we have failed in our perceptions of God and what we think he should do. This is the theme of the book.

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Damn. Messed that one up good didn't I.

Haha

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...He fails to fulfill what we expect of Him."

~ J. B. Phillips

 

Why not? He created us, right? He supposedly gave us curiosity AND rationality, but then gave us a vague book of contradicting claims and orders, then proceeded to allow the devil to plant 100's of other vague and contrary books all giving more vague and contradicting stories about gods(including more vague and contradicting orders about how to live), with some people even believing he allowed satan to plant fake fossils and fake the age of the earth as some grand BS faith-test, which if we fail, we all get sent to hell. 

 

Considering that he is an immortal ruler of the universe with wisdom and knowledge beyond, he could take a few minutes out of his day to kindly explain to us the overall truth without muddling the message and expecting us puny, small minded idiots not to fuck up figuring out the complete and utter mess of claims and problems associated with his behavior.

 

So I prefer it much easier - Sagan had it right. Your god, IH, is way too small for my universe and his piss poor example and instruction smacks much more of a small-time War Lord in Africa then it does of an all powerful creator. Be rid of the believe of yahweh and it all makes sense! Awesome how that happens.

 

 

 

 

”He fails to fulfill what we expect of Him."

~ J. B. Phillips

 

You quote only the end of a very long sentence.

“I do not pretend to understand the ways of God any more than the next man; but it is surely more fitting as well as more sensible for us to study what God does do and what He does not do as He works in and through the complex fabric of this disintegrated world, than to postulate what we think God ought to do and then feel demoralized and bitterly disappointed because He fails to fulfill what we expect of Him."

 

 

Phillips is not saying God has failed us, he is saying we have failed in our perceptions of God and what we think he should do. This is the theme of the book.

 

Ironhorse, you might like Roll to Disbelieve, Captain Cassidy's blog over in the atheist section of Patheos.

 

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/rolltodisbelieve/

 

One of her themes is the way Christianity as a system tries to insulate itself from criticism. Lots of us come to the point where we say, Hey, Christianity sucks and it's wrecking my life. (Others of us don't go through that trauma but simply realize its falsity. They're the lucky ones.) Cass is great on detailing how Christian spokesmen then double down and tell the wavering person, No, Christianity is totes the truth, but you're just doing it wrong/expecting the wrong thing etc. etc.

 

I put that kind of spin on Christianity in my own head for years. Eventually, though, one of the things that broke the spell was when a 28 year old in our group turned out to have advanced stomach cancer. We all prayed. Little kids prayed. Rod died anyway. It hit me that the promises of the NT, put in Jesus' mouth, are false. And you yourself put a similar spin on them. You claimed recently that the age of miracles is over. The NT doesn't put any limit on an age of miracles.

 

Google stuff about hypotheses. You'll see that one of the features of a good hypothesis is that it is testable. There are ways to falsify it. What would you say about the hypothesis that the problems with your car's transmission are caused by invisible, undetectable spirits, whose existence can only be inferred from the car's malfunctioning? And when your prayers and sacrifices to the spirits don't work, the group leaders tell you that you're just not doing it right? 

 

When they fail in their attempts to prove the NT promises true, Christian apologists fall back on reframing them so they are not testable. E.g. God answered your prayer, He just said "no" or "not yet." No way EVER to show a prayer has failed. But then, the belief system is left with no credibility.

 

So far you have not presented anything to impart credibility to your belief system. The most you have done is try to repackage it so that its false claims get reworded as something that might in the end not be false.

 

I hope you don't support political action to make customs based on reconstructed bronze age herders' customs obligatory for everyone.

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Nope, he doesn't see it. At all.

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"Trust god but keep your powder dry."

 

Isn't it interesting that there is always some excuse for why god doesn't do what the bible says he will?

 

"god expects some effort on our part"

"Prayer doesn't work that way."

"It's mysterious."

"god's ways are not our ways."

"It just wasn't god's will."

 

Sounds a lot like god doesn't really do anything; and we only end up getting out what we put in ourselves.

 

...and now we are expected to keep our own powder dry. What use is god if he can't even keep powder dry for us?

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And you yourself put a similar spin on them. You claimed recently that the age of miracles is over. The NT doesn't put any limit on an age of miracles.

 

So far you have not presented anything to impart credibility to your belief system. The most you have done is try to repackage it so that its false claims get reworded as something that might in the end not be false.

 

~ ficino

 

 

I did take time to read several of the blogs on the link you posted. I bookmarked to read more and use as a reference. Thanks.

 

Again let me say again, I am not trying to put my own "spin" on the scriptures or to "cherry pick' verses. Doing that does indeed only causes confusion and  disappointment. I try my best to align my beliefs with what the scriptures teach. 

 

 

The teachings by Charismatic and Pentecostals on the issue of tongues and miracles are, I think, are not Biblical correct.

If you would like to read a very thorough and Biblical examination of these teachings, I highly recommend Charismatic Chaos by John MacArthur.

http://www.amazon.com/Charismatic-Chaos-John-MacArthur/dp/0310575729

 

 

Also, a message by MacArthur on this topic can be read here:

http://www.gty.org/resources/sermons/90-56/Does-God-Do-Miracles-Today

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...

I am not trying to put my own "spin" on the scriptures or to "cherry pick' verses. D

...

 

 

 

Nevertheless, you're doing a great job of spinning and cherry picking, although most of the spin and cherry picking originates from someone else.

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The teachings by Charismatic and Pentecostals on the issue of tongues and miracles are, I think, are not Biblical correct.

From the earliest times, Christians believed that God continues to do miracles. The Catholic and Orthodox churches still firmly believe so, though they aren't very much into speaking in tongues.

 

I don't really care whether Christians argue among themselves about this or any other point. As far as I've seen in more than 60 years of living, accounts of miracles tend to boil down to No Genuine Miracle.

 

So, another potential field of verification is nullified. Christianity is left with precious little genuine evidence, isn't it? [i don't consider psychological states as evidential, and not "changed lives." These occur in many groups and movements.]

 

As I said, the most you've offered amounts to arguments why Christianity might just turn out not to be false. Even to succeed at that minimum does not amount to forming a defense. Lots of systems can end up not proved false.

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If what the Charismatic teach on issue of tongues and miracles is true,

it must be based on scripture. This means all scriptures.

Why is it wrong to study and think of a topic in the scriptures this way?

 

 

To overlook and not comment as to why you think my view is cherry-picking,

can you offer more of a reason than just accusing me of cherry-picking?

 

If you find this "cherry picking" in the two links I posted, please quote them and comment.

 

Thanks

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Okay, Ironhorse, you would like for us to take a more "global" look at the scriptures instead of just focusing on one little theological tidbit.  Fair enough.  I have a question for you then:

 

What language did people speak before the Tower of Babel?

 

(Hint: you'll find god's answer to this question in Acts chapter 2).

 

Do you still think the Pentecostals are wrong?

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