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Goodbye Jesus

A Science Vs. A Religion


bornagainathiest

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The science is question is Astronomy and the religion in question are the beliefs of the native Hawaiian people of the Big Island.

 

Astronomers would like to build the Thirty Meter Telescope on the summit of Mauna Kea, the highest peak on the Big Island.  http://www.tmt.org/

 

But some islanders are opposed to it's construction on what they consider to be sacred ground.  http://www.protectmaunakea.org/

 

Whereas, other are in favor.  http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/31172584/local-connection-tmt

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Please note that I have no answers and no solutions to this issue.

All I will do here is make the scientific case for the TMT and why moving it elsewhere is a severe blow to astronomical science for the next half century.  

Three massive, next-generation telescopes were planned to be up and running by the early 2020's. 

 

The Giant Magellan Telescope  http://www.gmto.org/

 

The European Extremely Large Telescope     (Apologies!  I can't link to their site.  Please Google it.)

european-extremely-large-telescope.jpg

 

and the Thirty Meter Telescope.

Locating any telescope, anywhere in the world, leads to a problem which cannot be sidestepped, circumvented or avoided.  

No telescope can ever see 100% of the sky.  At best, about 2/3 (66%) of the sky will be visible to any telescope, located at any point on the Earth's surface.  

 

It's a matter of geometry, folks.

A telescope in Australia will never be able to see Polaris (the North Pole Star) and one in Canada will never be able to see the Southern Cross, a prominent constellation in the southern skies.  This explains why.  http://www.satsig.net/maps/how-to-find-north-pole-star.htm This is why the GMT and EELT are sited in South America and the TMT is sited in Hawaii.  (Or isn't any more.)  Between them, all three telescopes would have been able to see 100% of the sky.  Now, with the likely departure of the TMT from Hawaii, another location in the Northen hemisphere must be found for that telescope to be built.

 

Catch is, Mauna Kea is THE best place in the world to locate such a scope.  Or was.

So it's now a case of the TMT team (and the global astronomical community) have to make do with second best, many delays and probably many cost overruns.  There's no other high-altitude site anywhere in North America, Europe or Asia that comes anywhere close to Mauna Kea when it comes to the transparency of the atmosphere and the quality of the images seen by telescopes already located there.  Also, if a major astronomical event (a comet or supernova) happened in the Northern skies, the GMT and EELT would have no chance of observing it.  Wherever in the North the TMT is finally located, it's imagery will fall well short of it's sister scopes in the South.

 

This is indeed a sad day for astronomy.  sad.png

 

Thanks,

 

BAA.

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Goodbye Jesus

This question comes from ignorance about how this all works, but is it possible that a temporary set up can be made where the telescope can be there for a while, but then removed without causing any significant disruption of the environment or area?

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This question comes from ignorance about how this all works, but is it possible that a temporary set up can be made where the telescope can be there for a while, but then removed without causing any significant disruption of the environment or area?

 

Thanks for the response Storm, but please note that I did say that I had no answers and no solutions to this problem.

 

What I will say is this.

 

For your idea to be feasible, those Big Islanders who want the TMT gone would have to show a little leeway.

 

The flip side is that 'a while' in the case of the TMT means decades and decades.

 

Try thinking about building a huge hydroelectric dam in a remote location, operating it for 'a while' and then restoring the land where it was back to it's natural state.

 

Can't see that happening, can you?

 

Wendyshrug.gif

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If they put it up on Haleakala (Maui), I could go visit it, since it's about thirty minutes from where my in-laws live. That would be awesome.

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idk - progress shouldn't be halted just because of a group of people's holy site. I understand historical and cultural significance, but if there isn't anything but rocks on this location...idk, I don't feel a whole lot of sympathy for the group. In 200 years, none of that will matter to any of them. 

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