SkepticalDaniel Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 I was an IFB (Independent Fundamental Baptist) for a very long time, and it was really pounded into my head that hell was at the center of the earth beneath the ground. I've since then gotten away from the IFB church, but the fear of hell just keeps coming back and coming back. To give you an example of what I was taught, just look at the link here: http://www.av1611.org/hell.html How can I counter these fears? Does anyone have any suggestions? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdelsolray Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 Seek appropriate treatment from the secular mental health care professional of your choosing. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkepticalDaniel Posted May 12, 2016 Author Share Posted May 12, 2016 Seek appropriate treatment from the secular mental health care professional of your choosing. Thanks. I think I might have found someone. It's just really, really, REALLY hard. Especially when the church folks have prevented you with things that seem so very real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdelsolray Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 It will take time, and effort. The therapist suggestion is just one thing you can do. Other things include (i) stop visiting duplicitous religious websites and (ii) spend time with secular interests, such as hobbies. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkepticalDaniel Posted May 12, 2016 Author Share Posted May 12, 2016 It will take time, and effort. The therapist suggestion is just one thing you can do. Other things include (i) stop visiting duplicitous religious websites and (ii) spend time with secular interests, such as hobbies. Sounds like a plan to me. I already have a lot of hobbies, such as writing and model building. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llwellyn Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 Don't try not to be afraid. Fear is normal. What works for me to is to resign myself to this outcome and proceed from there. There is nothing you can do to affect what is done by the gods (if they exist). Your plans, evasions, desires would be pointless. Consider it a resolved matter that you'll go to Hell. Not whether you'll suffer misfortune, but how. Once you accept that idea, it won't be so tough. My choice concerning Hell is the choice of a Soldier who runs to the sound of the gunfire, or the moth that flies towards the light. I agree with C.S. Lewis that "All that are in Hell, choose it. Without that self-choice there could be no Hell." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkepticalDaniel Posted May 12, 2016 Author Share Posted May 12, 2016 Don't try not to be afraid. Fear is normal. What works for me to is to resign myself to this outcome and proceed from there. There is nothing you can do to affect what is done by the gods (if they exist). Your plans, evasions, desires would be pointless. Consider it a resolved matter that you'll go to Hell. Not whether you'll suffer misfortune, but how. Once you accept that idea, it won't be so tough. My choice concerning Hell is the choice of a Soldier who runs to the sound of the gunfire, or the moth that flies towards the light. I agree with C.S. Lewis that "All that are in Hell, choose it. Without that self-choice there could be no Hell." I'm not really sure what you mean exactly. Can you simplify the explanation? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duderonomy Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 I was an IFB (Independent Fundamental Baptist) for a very long time, and it was really pounded into my head that hell was at the center of the earth beneath the ground. I've since then gotten away from the IFB church, but the fear of hell just keeps coming back and coming back. To give you an example of what I was taught, just look at the link here: http://www.av1611.org/hell.html How can I counter these fears? Does anyone have any suggestions? Hi SkepticalDaniel, welcome to Ex-C! You need to concentrate on whether Biblegod is real or not in my humble opinion. Some people fear hell (or Hell, as it were), some people fear demons, some people fear committing the unpardonable sin, and so on. If the Bible isn't true, then all of those fears go away. Does it matter where hell is if it doesn't exist? Having said that, I understand your fear. I was KJV only for most of my Christian life. I used to peruse a website similar to the one you posted. Here's a link, but be careful, there might be triggers. https://www.jesus-is-lord.com/ As you get further away from this kind of stuff, the more obvious it is that it is baloney. Here are a couple of websites I spent some time reading when I first deconverted: http://www.evilbible.com/ and http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/ Of course I read a lot of stuff here too before I signed up. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
violetbutterfly Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 I've found that reading books on other beliefs helps tremendously. The idea being that you reset your default. It's easy to fall back into the "this is the only possible explanation" trap when you remove all religion from your life. But when you study and learn about other religions...those you've never believed and those you "know" were never true, it gets easier to apply the same skepticism to the religion you left behind. Also, hang out with us. The more you unravel bit by bit, the easier it becomes. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornagainathiest Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 Don't try not to be afraid. Fear is normal. What works for me to is to resign myself to this outcome and proceed from there. There is nothing you can do to affect what is done by the gods (if they exist). Your plans, evasions, desires would be pointless. Consider it a resolved matter that you'll go to Hell. Not whether you'll suffer misfortune, but how. Once you accept that idea, it won't be so tough. My choice concerning Hell is the choice of a Soldier who runs to the sound of the gunfire, or the moth that flies towards the light. I agree with C.S. Lewis that "All that are in Hell, choose it. Without that self-choice there could be no Hell." Daniel asked for help with his fear of hell, L. Do you have a problem empathizing with his desire to be free of that fear? 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Margee Posted May 12, 2016 Moderator Share Posted May 12, 2016 Don't try not to be afraid. Fear is normal. What works for me to is to resign myself to this outcome and proceed from there. There is nothing you can do to affect what is done by the gods (if they exist). Your plans, evasions, desires would be pointless. Consider it a resolved matter that you'll go to Hell. Not whether you'll suffer misfortune, but how. Once you accept that idea, it won't be so tough. My choice concerning Hell is the choice of a Soldier who runs to the sound of the gunfire, or the moth that flies towards the light. I agree with C.S. Lewis that "All that are in Hell, choose it. Without that self-choice there could be no Hell." Llwellyn, Maybe you can explain this a bit better? This would not have helped me at all when I first arrived here at Ex-c. I know you must be trying to make a point but could you expand on this a little better please? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 The more I learned about how the idea of hell evolved, the more I realized like so many other parts of my old beliefs that it was just made up along the way. I have no fear now cause it's just ridiculous 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Margee Posted May 12, 2016 Moderator Share Posted May 12, 2016 How can I counter these fears? Does anyone have any suggestions? Welcome to Ex-c SkepticalDanial. I'm so glad you found us. Unfortunately, hell is the one fear that kept me tied so close to not rejecting the christian faith. It was only because of the wonderful people here on Ex-c making so many suggestions to help me when I first arrived. The ones you are getting now from all the members. Out of all the research I did, I finally got rid of the fear of hell (99%) because I studied very closely the book of Genesis. That's where all the fundamentalism starts. God makes man from dust. Then tells him to go find a helpmate from amongst the animals...then Adam can't find one, so god cuts him open and takes one of his ribs and makes him a woman?? Stands them in a garden and allows them to sin by sending a tempter??? And then it was supposed to be only Adam and Eve on the earth at this time, yet there was someone standing outside the 'garden gates' documenting this whole thing?? It's all crazy. Study the whole ridiculous story of 'the fall of man' and you will see that we were not created by this stupid fairy-tale 'god' in the sky. We were not born in sin. If we were not born in sin, then we do not need a savior to rescue us. Remember the bible speaks of talking donkeys, bushes that won't burn out, Abraham who almost cut his child in two, serpents and angels. It's all fairy tale told by very ancient men who were trying to appease the gods when there were earthquakes, floods and volcano's. The ancient men thought the world was flat at this time. They didn't understand nature so they thought it was the angry gods sending them messages. It's all ridiculous. But I understand how hard it is to let go of this fear once you have been indoctrinated by it. Take your time hon and keep posting here. The members will do everything in their power to help you un-brainwash. Go study that first book. When you do, the whole house of cards come tumbling down. I give you a big ((hug)) today because I know this is hard stuff. You're going to be OK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsathoggua Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 I've found that reading books on other beliefs helps tremendously. The idea being that you reset your default. It's easy to fall back into the "this is the only possible explanation" trap when you remove all religion from your life. But when you study and learn about other religions...those you've never believed and those you "know" were never true, it gets easier to apply the same skepticism to the religion you left behind. Also, hang out with us. The more you unravel bit by bit, the easier it becomes. This is very good advice! The more you know about how other cultures view the afterlife, the more skeptical you will become that any culture actually "has it right". 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geezer Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 As others have suggested, education is vitally important. Lots of good books have be written on the history of hell that lay out how this myth began, why it was created, & how it has evolved. Check Amazon for this typic & google it too. All religions & their beliefs have man made origins. Dr. Karen Arnstrong's book A History of God traces the major religions back to their human beginnings & then how they evolved. You might want to check that book out. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted May 12, 2016 Super Moderator Share Posted May 12, 2016 There are many, many sources where you can find logical arguments against the doctrine of Hell. That is not your problem, though. You have been brainwashed and the result is an irrational fear of something, a phobia. Therapy is in order since you can't just decide to stop fearing that which you may intellectually know does not exist. All the best to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilith666 Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 Why should you care what some tacky, hysterical website says? Half their text is in huge, red letters - if they had any evidence, they would just demonstrate it and wouldn't need to try to scare you. Notice the phrases like "The Bible is clear..." and "Jesus said..." They're trying to use the Bible to prove the Bible, which obviously makes no sense. Nothing Jesus purportedly said is relevant until they show that the Bible is accurate. Which they haven't. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkepticalDaniel Posted May 12, 2016 Author Share Posted May 12, 2016 I was an IFB (Independent Fundamental Baptist) for a very long time, and it was really pounded into my head that hell was at the center of the earth beneath the ground. I've since then gotten away from the IFB church, but the fear of hell just keeps coming back and coming back. To give you an example of what I was taught, just look at the link here: http://www.av1611.org/hell.html How can I counter these fears? Does anyone have any suggestions? Hi SkepticalDaniel, welcome to Ex-C! You need to concentrate on whether Biblegod is real or not in my humble opinion. Some people fear hell (or Hell, as it were), some people fear demons, some people fear committing the unpardonable sin, and so on. If the Bible isn't true, then all of those fears go away. Does it matter where hell is if it doesn't exist? Having said that, I understand your fear. I was KJV only for most of my Christian life. I used to peruse a website similar to the one you posted. Here's a link, but be careful, there might be triggers. https://www.jesus-is-lord.com/ As you get further away from this kind of stuff, the more obvious it is that it is baloney. Here are a couple of websites I spent some time reading when I first deconverted: http://www.evilbible.com/ and http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/ Of course I read a lot of stuff here too before I signed up. I'm familiar with all the KJV-only websites. I used to frequent them all the time before I left. All the sermons really traumatized me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qadeshet Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 Don't try not to be afraid. Fear is normal. What works for me to is to resign myself to this outcome and proceed from there. There is nothing you can do to affect what is done by the gods (if they exist). Your plans, evasions, desires would be pointless. Consider it a resolved matter that you'll go to Hell. Not whether you'll suffer misfortune, but how. Once you accept that idea, it won't be so tough. My choice concerning Hell is the choice of a Soldier who runs to the sound of the gunfire, or the moth that flies towards the light. I agree with C.S. Lewis that "All that are in Hell, choose it. Without that self-choice there could be no Hell." Llwellyn, Maybe you can explain this a bit better? This would not have helped me at all when I first arrived here at Ex-c. I know you must be trying to make a point but could you expand on this a little better please? Thanks. Llwellyn made himself perfectly clear. Any god that would send even one of his children to a place of eternal punishment would be unworthy of our concern. I would rather burn in Hell than serve such a god. Embrace the tiny possibility that Hell exists and tell such a god to kiss your ass. This is when the fear evaporates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkepticalDaniel Posted May 12, 2016 Author Share Posted May 12, 2016 Why should you care what some tacky, hysterical website says? Half their text is in huge, red letters - if they had any evidence, they would just demonstrate it and wouldn't need to try to scare you. Notice the phrases like "The Bible is clear..." and "Jesus said..." They're trying to use the Bible to prove the Bible, which obviously makes no sense. Nothing Jesus purportedly said is relevant until they show that the Bible is accurate. Which they haven't. It's just hard when it's been really pounded into your head, like it was for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overcame Faith Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 A lot of good advice in this thread. As has already been suggested, you have been indoctrinated into accepting the threat of hell. I and many of the rest of us were likewise indoctrinated by the repeated references to hell (and other Christian doctrines). Realizing and understanding that you have been indoctrinated (brainwashed is another way to think of it) is one of the first steps to freedom from the indoctrination. As an example, Margee posted about the creation of man story in Genesis. Her synopsis of it is very good because she left out the version of the story as told in church which is part of the indoctrination into accepting the whole notion of original sin. The church through Paul's writings teaches that we were all born as sinners because of Adam's and Eve's sin in the Garden of Eden. That is the first step toward the lesson that the church also teaches that we are all not worthy of Bible God and are naturally destined for hell unless and until we are saved by Jesus' atonement for our sins. But as Margee tells the story through a very literal reading of Genesis, it becomes apparent that it is just myth told by folks from an era long past. Learn to read the scary parts of the Bible like Margee demonstrated. Realize and accept that you (and we) were indoctrinated and begin seeing through it and you will find that the fear of hell will eventually slip away, maybe slowly, but it will. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkepticalDaniel Posted May 12, 2016 Author Share Posted May 12, 2016 A lot of good advice in this thread. As has already been suggested, you have been indoctrinated into accepting the threat of hell. I and many of the rest of us were likewise indoctrinated by the repeated references to hell (and other Christian doctrines). Realizing and understanding that you have been indoctrinated (brainwashed is another way to think of it) is one of the first steps to freedom from the indoctrination. As an example, Margee posted about the creation of man story in Genesis. Her synopsis of it is very good because she left out the version of the story as told in church which is part of the indoctrination into accepting the whole notion of original sin. The church through Paul's writings teaches that we were all born as sinners because of Adam's and Eve's sin in the Garden of Eden. That is the first step toward the lesson that the church also teaches that we are all not worthy of Bible God and are naturally destined for hell unless and until we are saved by Jesus' atonement for our sins. But as Margee tells the story through a very literal reading of Genesis, it becomes apparent that it is just myth told by folks from an era long past. Learn to read the scary parts of the Bible like Margee demonstrated. Realize and accept that you (and we) were indoctrinated and begin seeing through it and you will find that the fear of hell will eventually slip away, maybe slowly, but it will. I'm going to be receiving therapy. It's just hard when they've pounded into your head that it's at the center of the earth and have used "science" to prove it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llwellyn Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 Do you have a problem empathizing with his desire to be free of that fear? There are a lot of different methods to deal with the issue of Hell, and most of them are well-known here: denial, anger, bargaining, depression. I think it's worth trying, for a moment at least, maybe longer if it works for you, another method. That method is acceptance: the full and joyous consent to the very worst possible prediction. Close your eyes and visualize it for a few moments, as you breathe deeply. "It's going to be okay."; "I can't fight it, I may as well prepare for it." By consenting to whatever will come, we take possession of the abundance and power of our existence. Maybe it will work for Daniel, maybe it won't. No doubt a person can see the value in this method, among others, being put on the table for possible application. Consider mine a "throw away course of action" which you can discard if it does not please you. It could be a method that becomes very relevant in the future if atheist "salvation by denial" does not do the trick to scare off Yahweh. After all, there is no evidence that Yahweh's hellfire is not coming; you have no power over the existence and behavior of others. What is proven is that you have power over your mind, and you will burn in hell, if you have to, with the same tools of reason, love, friendship, and guts which today empower you to cope with known evils. Life is great, we can expect if will continue to be fantastic, come what may, even hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkepticalDaniel Posted May 12, 2016 Author Share Posted May 12, 2016 Do you have a problem empathizing with his desire to be free of that fear? There are a lot of different methods to deal with the issue of Hell, and most of them are well-known here: denial, anger, bargaining, depression. I think it's worth trying, for a moment at least, maybe longer if it works for you, another method. That method is acceptance: the full and joyous consent to the very worst possible prediction. Close your eyes and visualize it for a few moments, as you breathe deeply. "It's going to be okay."; "I can't fight it, I may as well prepare for it." By consenting to whatever will come, we take possession of the abundance and power of our existence. Maybe it will work for Daniel, maybe it won't. No doubt a person can see the value in this method, among others, being put on the table for possible application. Consider mine a "throw away course of action" which you can discard if it does not please you. It could be a method that becomes very relevant in the future if atheist "salvation by denial" does not do the trick to scare off Yahweh. After all, there is no evidence that Yahweh's hellfire is not coming; you have no power over the existence and behavior of others. What is proven is that you have power over your mind, and you will burn in hell, if you have to, with the same tools of reason, love, friendship, and guts which today empower you to cope with known evils. Life is great, we can expect if will continue to be fantastic, come what may, even hell. I wasn't just terrified about Hell happening to me, I was terrified about it happening to other people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkepticalDaniel Posted May 12, 2016 Author Share Posted May 12, 2016 Don't try not to be afraid. Fear is normal. What works for me to is to resign myself to this outcome and proceed from there. There is nothing you can do to affect what is done by the gods (if they exist). Your plans, evasions, desires would be pointless. Consider it a resolved matter that you'll go to Hell. Not whether you'll suffer misfortune, but how. Once you accept that idea, it won't be so tough. My choice concerning Hell is the choice of a Soldier who runs to the sound of the gunfire, or the moth that flies towards the light. I agree with C.S. Lewis that "All that are in Hell, choose it. Without that self-choice there could be no Hell." Daniel asked for help with his fear of hell, L. Do you have a problem empathizing with his desire to be free of that fear? What's your suggestion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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