Please Stand For...

[quinntar]

Does anyone understand the reason why the church's service is formulaic. They all seem to follow a pattern, and I'd like to learn from Christian's and non christians alike why it has been arranged in that fashion.

 

As far as I know from the bible it doesn't speak about the format of church service, other than the mentality and gifts a teacher of Christ should have.

 

Also I would like to know how the modern priesthood/brotherhood is anything like it was in the 12 Apostle's day, and why Christians never continued the Apostleship.

 

Thankyou.

[searchinwithnoagenda]

Imo, religion is merely a human convention and operates like any human organization with hierarchy, control, systems, order, etc.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

I can't speak for more the more traditional forms of christianity; but, from my experience, pentecostal church services are designed mainly to maximize the emotional experience.

[qadeshet]

I was wondering if I was the only one to discover this, so I did a quick search: why church service indoctrination works, an I found several good links.. Check this out.

 

15 mind control techniques both churches and cults use.

 

In particular, take note of number 5.

 

5. Trance stimulation

When you enter your ornate church on Sunday morning, one of the first things that’s going to happen is you’re going to sing hymns with the congregation. The majestic music, combined with the majestic building and the thrill of performing an action in unison with other members of the in-crowd will work you into a trance state that will make you susceptible to hypnosis. If you’re singing about being willfully obedient then you’re just hypnotizing yourself, and you’re hypnotizing the people standing around you listening to you sing about the virtue of willful obedience, servitude, sacrifice and faith. Even if that’s not the intent, that’s the outcome. Even if you don’t know it’s happening, it’s happening. Even if everyone was forewarned and knew it was happening it would still work on some of the participants.

 

Certain music and sound frequencies stimulate the Right Brain, the gateway to the Unconscious, while putting the Left Brain to sleep. Your Right Brain believes whatever you program it to believe. This is actually helpfull when you know what you're doing. Whether they know the exact reasons or not, churches know what works. Stay away from church and the brainwashing fades.

 

There is some great meditation music at spotify that will enable you to program yourself. Do a search for Technomind.

[miamia]

yes we were talking about this on another thread. i don't know about the sitting and standing, but I believe the group singing has a lot to do with it, not just the music they play, but the power that singing in a group has over the individual. 

 

group singing creates a chemical high. It's good for you, it causes bonding, and is a proven way to fend off depression, it's good for your body in many ways. Good! that's really good for your health if once or twice a week you get together with a bunch of people and group sing. you will live longer and you will be happier. I am actually convinced that this is the sole cause of people feeling uplifted after a service, because people who group sing in other settings, school choir, etc, experience the same high.

 

In church they use it as a tool to make people receptive to the message in the sermon. they get everyone buzzing and comfortable around everyone they are surrounded with in the pews, like bees in a hive. tuned into each others vibrations (literally, your heart syncs up with the hearts of those around you, I imagine this has more effects that we have yet to document). Then while you are on this warm fuzzy emotional high, the preacher delivers the sermon, then after the sermon, you sing again. In the church I attended, there was a very large kitchen, where food was served afterward. sharing food with others and just the simple act of eating also has a psychological effect. Couple this with the actual words in the song, and you have an even more pronounced effect. 

 

This causes people to associate these good feelings with whatever message the preacher is giving. the implications of this are huge. this is really and truly brain washing. I'm not claiming that its deliberate in all cases, but that's what it is. 

You are getting someone to be comfortable, at least somewhat more comfortable, with concepts that would normally cause a high amount of stress and anxiety. You convince people that they feel warm and fuzzy because they are experiencing something SUPERNATURAL,  when what they are experiencing is the power of being connected with the people around them, taking deep breaths, relaxing their muscles, and getting those feel good chemicals flowing. People convince themselves that this can only be found at church, when in fact, this effect is easy to duplicate in a more healthy setting, with no mental strings attached.

I imagine it would be very therapeutic to organize secular choirs for therapy reasons specifically for recovery from religion. a black mass if you will, as I recall they originated as a cathartic mockery of the formulated sermons of christianity. so something like that, just not necessarily satanic in theme. I would suggest that people who are really struggling from the loss of this weekly sync up with other human beings should find, or create, another way to group sing. or at the very least sing as much as you can by yourself. literally, live life to your own beat. if you don't, you may fall prey to someone else's. *edit* ha! posted this before I saw Quadshet had posted something similar. 

[qadeshet]

This causes people to associate these good feelings with whatever message the preacher is giving. the implications of this are huge. this is really and truly brain washing. I'm not claiming that its deliberate in all cases, but that's what it is. 

You are getting someone to be comfortable, at least somewhat more comfortable, with concepts that would normally cause a high amount of stress and anxiety. You convince people that they feel warm and fuzzy because they are experiencing something SUPERNATURAL,  when what they are experiencing is the power of being connected with the people around them, taking deep breaths, relaxing their muscles, and getting those feel good chemicals flowing. People convince themselves that this can only be found at church, when in fact, this effect is easy to duplicate in a more healthy setting, with no mental strings attached.

I imagine it would be very therapeutic to organize secular choirs for therapy reasons specifically for recovery from religion. a black mass if you will, as I recall they originated as a cathartic mockery of the formulated sermons of christianity. so something like that, just not necessarily satanic in theme. I would suggest that people who are really struggling from the loss of this weekly sync up with other human beings should find, or create, another way to group sing. or at the very least sing as much as you can by yourself. literally, live life to your own beat. if you don't, you may fall prey to someone else's. *edit* ha! posted this before I saw Quadshet had posted something similar. 

 

Great minds think alike?

[miamia]

 

This causes people to associate these good feelings with whatever message the preacher is giving. the implications of this are huge. this is really and truly brain washing. I'm not claiming that its deliberate in all cases, but that's what it is. 

You are getting someone to be comfortable, at least somewhat more comfortable, with concepts that would normally cause a high amount of stress and anxiety. You convince people that they feel warm and fuzzy because they are experiencing something SUPERNATURAL,  when what they are experiencing is the power of being connected with the people around them, taking deep breaths, relaxing their muscles, and getting those feel good chemicals flowing. People convince themselves that this can only be found at church, when in fact, this effect is easy to duplicate in a more healthy setting, with no mental strings attached.

I imagine it would be very therapeutic to organize secular choirs for therapy reasons specifically for recovery from religion. a black mass if you will, as I recall they originated as a cathartic mockery of the formulated sermons of christianity. so something like that, just not necessarily satanic in theme. I would suggest that people who are really struggling from the loss of this weekly sync up with other human beings should find, or create, another way to group sing. or at the very least sing as much as you can by yourself. literally, live life to your own beat. if you don't, you may fall prey to someone else's. *edit* ha! posted this before I saw Quadshet had posted something similar. 

 

Great minds think alike?

 

indeed

[quinntar]

I can't speak for more the more traditional forms of christianity; but, from my experience, pentecostal church services are designed mainly to maximize the emotional experience.

That I know, but I wonder if the reverse is possible. (Such as using guilt to control your congregation)

[quinntar]

I was wondering if I was the only one to discover this, so I did a quick search: why church service indoctrination works, an I found several good links.. Check this out.

 

15 mind control techniques both churches and cults use.

 

In particular, take note of number 5.

5. Trance stimulation

When you enter your ornate church on Sunday morning, one of the first things that’s going to happen is you’re going to sing hymns with the congregation. The majestic music, combined with the majestic building and the thrill of performing an action in unison with other members of the in-crowd will work you into a trance state that will make you susceptible to hypnosis. If you’re singing about being willfully obedient then you’re just hypnotizing yourself, and you’re hypnotizing the people standing around you listening to you sing about the virtue of willful obedience, servitude, sacrifice and faith. Even if that’s not the intent, that’s the outcome. Even if you don’t know it’s happening, it’s happening. Even if everyone was forewarned and knew it was happening it would still work on some of the participants.

Certain music and sound frequencies stimulate the Right Brain, the gateway to the Unconscious, while putting the Left Brain to sleep. Your Right Brain believes whatever you program it to believe. This is actually helpfull when you know what you're doing. Whether they know the exact reasons or not, churches know what works. Stay away from church and the brainwashing fades.

 

There is some great meditation music at spotify that will enable you to program yourself. Do a search for Technomind.

I like sexy electronic music, it's more healthy than church music.

[quinntar]

yes we were talking about this on another thread. i don't know about the sitting and standing, but I believe the group singing has a lot to do with it, not just the music they play, but the power that singing in a group has over the individual.

 

group singing creates a chemical high. It's good for you, it causes bonding, and is a proven way to fend off depression, it's good for your body in many ways. Good! that's really good for your health if once or twice a week you get together with a bunch of people and group sing. you will live longer and you will be happier. I am actually convinced that this is the sole cause of people feeling uplifted after a service, because people who group sing in other settings, school choir, etc, experience the same high.

 

In church they use it as a tool to make people receptive to the message in the sermon. they get everyone buzzing and comfortable around everyone they are surrounded with in the pews, like bees in a hive. tuned into each others vibrations (literally, your heart syncs up with the hearts of those around you, I imagine this has more effects that we have yet to document). Then while you are on this warm fuzzy emotional high, the preacher delivers the sermon, then after the sermon, you sing again. In the church I attended, there was a very large kitchen, where food was served afterward. sharing food with others and just the simple act of eating also has a psychological effect. Couple this with the actual words in the song, and you have an even more pronounced effect.

 

This causes people to associate these good feelings with whatever message the preacher is giving. the implications of this are huge. this is really and truly brain washing. I'm not claiming that its deliberate in all cases, but that's what it is.

You are getting someone to be comfortable, at least somewhat more comfortable, with concepts that would normally cause a high amount of stress and anxiety. You convince people that they feel warm and fuzzy because they are experiencing something SUPERNATURAL, when what they are experiencing is the power of being connected with the people around them, taking deep breaths, relaxing their muscles, and getting those feel good chemicals flowing. People convince themselves that this can only be found at church, when in fact, this effect is easy to duplicate in a more healthy setting, with no mental strings attached.

I imagine it would be very therapeutic to organize secular choirs for therapy reasons specifically for recovery from religion. a black mass if you will, as I recall they originated as a cathartic mockery of the formulated sermons of christianity. so something like that, just not necessarily satanic in theme. I would suggest that people who are really struggling from the loss of this weekly sync up with other human beings should find, or create, another way to group sing. or at the very least sing as much as you can by yourself. literally, live life to your own beat. if you don't, you may fall prey to someone else's. *edit* ha! posted this before I saw Quadshet had posted something similar.

Didn't they do hypnotic tests in the 60's and discovered that a person can't be mind controlled? But religion seems to do that.

[searchinwithnoagenda]

"this is really and truly brain washing."

 

Exactly! Imo, we are social creatures and religion uses this human condition to its advantage. Throw in fear, guilt, power, and control and viola, religion is born.

[TABA]

Well there's mind control and then there's mind control. Nobody could hypnotize me to rob a bank because I'm not at all inclined to do something like that. Nobody could grab me on the street, drag me into a church and make me believe. Religion requires willing subjects who cooperate in their indoctrination. Either that or young kids who tend to believe whatever their parents tell them and then may or may not have the will to break out of the belief system when they are older.

[miamia]

 

yes we were talking about this on another thread. i don't know about the sitting and standing, but I believe the group singing has a lot to do with it, not just the music they play, but the power that singing in a group has over the individual.

group singing creates a chemical high. It's good for you, it causes bonding, and is a proven way to fend off depression, it's good for your body in many ways. Good! that's really good for your health if once or twice a week you get together with a bunch of people and group sing. you will live longer and you will be happier. I am actually convinced that this is the sole cause of people feeling uplifted after a service, because people who group sing in other settings, school choir, etc, experience the same high.

In church they use it as a tool to make people receptive to the message in the sermon. they get everyone buzzing and comfortable around everyone they are surrounded with in the pews, like bees in a hive. tuned into each others vibrations (literally, your heart syncs up with the hearts of those around you, I imagine this has more effects that we have yet to document). Then while you are on this warm fuzzy emotional high, the preacher delivers the sermon, then after the sermon, you sing again. In the church I attended, there was a very large kitchen, where food was served afterward. sharing food with others and just the simple act of eating also has a psychological effect. Couple this with the actual words in the song, and you have an even more pronounced effect.

This causes people to associate these good feelings with whatever message the preacher is giving. the implications of this are huge. this is really and truly brain washing. I'm not claiming that its deliberate in all cases, but that's what it is.

You are getting someone to be comfortable, at least somewhat more comfortable, with concepts that would normally cause a high amount of stress and anxiety. You convince people that they feel warm and fuzzy because they are experiencing something SUPERNATURAL, when what they are experiencing is the power of being connected with the people around them, taking deep breaths, relaxing their muscles, and getting those feel good chemicals flowing. People convince themselves that this can only be found at church, when in fact, this effect is easy to duplicate in a more healthy setting, with no mental strings attached.

I imagine it would be very therapeutic to organize secular choirs for therapy reasons specifically for recovery from religion. a black mass if you will, as I recall they originated as a cathartic mockery of the formulated sermons of christianity. so something like that, just not necessarily satanic in theme. I would suggest that people who are really struggling from the loss of this weekly sync up with other human beings should find, or create, another way to group sing. or at the very least sing as much as you can by yourself. literally, live life to your own beat. if you don't, you may fall prey to someone else's. *edit* ha! posted this before I saw Quadshet had posted something similar.

Didn't they do hypnotic tests in the 60's and discovered that a person can't be mind controlled? But religion seems to do that.

those tests they did back then we're mostly hogwash, but have you heard of the little Albert experiment? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Albert_experiment

People can be conditioned to fear and detest things that are not dangerous, by using innate fears as a tool of conditioning.

"The wages of sin is death" people fear death. The fear of death is an innate fear. It can be overcome, but it's roots run deep. People already WANT to belive there is an escape, that is a biological fact, a driving force of survival. When threatened with the idea of death, the fight or flight response kicks in, a chemical haze falls between you conscious mind and your center of reasoning (oversimplified) It is a very simple matter to then condition people to associate normal behaviors and feelings (lust,selfishness,skepticism, stubbornness, pride,) with the intense fear of death. But this alone is not as successful as paring such conditioning with a strong incentivization. A sense of community which you perhaps havent felt before, a soothing forgiveness and acceptance for the "sins" you have associated with the fear of death, creating an OCD like complex of fear, doubt, relief. Fear doubt, relief. Wash, rinse repeat. And lastly the idea of heaven,a promise of a final cessation to that endless cycle of inner turmoil.

Conditioning exists in some level in all aspects of society. Religion is the cancerous version.

[qadeshet]

Well there's mind control and then there's mind control. Nobody could hypnotize me to rob a bank because I'm not at all inclined to do something like that. Nobody could grab me on the street, drag me into a church and make me believe. Religion requires willing subjects who cooperate in their indoctrination. Either that or young kids who tend to believe whatever their parents tell them and then may or may not have the will to break out of the belief system when they are older.

 

You'ld be surprised what people can be made to do using brainwashing techniques. Stockholm Syndrome is a very real condition. Ask Patty Hurst.

 

 

Actor John Wayne, speaking after the Jonestown cult deaths, said it was odd people accepted that one man had brainwashed 900 human beings into mass suicide, but would not accept that a group like the Symbionese Liberation Army could have brainwashed a kidnapped teenage girl.^[61][67]

Patty Hearst

 

 

...the effect of Stockholm syndrome is based on Freudian theory. It suggests that the bonding is the individual's response to trauma in becoming a victim. Identifying with the aggressor is one way that the ego defends itself. When a victim believes the same values as the aggressor, they cease to be perceived as a threat.

Stockholm syndrome

[ironhorse]

Does anyone understand the reason why the church's service is formulaic. They all seem to follow a pattern, and I'd like to learn from Christian's and non christians alike why it has been arranged in that fashion.

 

As far as I know from the bible it doesn't speak about the format of church service, other than the mentality and gifts a teacher of Christ should have.

 

Also I would like to know how the modern priesthood/brotherhood is anything like it was in the 12 Apostle's day, and why Christians never continued the Apostleship.

 

Thankyou.

 

 

Your first question I guess has to do with cultural preferences and past traditions.

You are correct. The N.T. does not command a specific format on how to conduct a service. One reason, I think, the Christian faith and in practice is so free and refreshing.

The Apostolic Age ended with the death of the Apostles. John was the last one to pass on.

 

Now…

 

But you are God’s “chosen generation”, his “royal priesthood”, his “holy nation”, his “peculiar people”—all the old titles of God’s people now belong to you.

 

1 Peter 2:10 (Phillips)

[quinntar]

"this is really and truly brain washing."

 

Exactly! Imo, we are social creatures and religion uses this human condition to its advantage. Throw in fear, guilt, power, and control and viola, religion is born.

Maybe just maybe it's the other way around

 

Maybe, don't know.

[quinntar]

Well there's mind control and then there's mind control. Nobody could hypnotize me to rob a bank because I'm not at all inclined to do something like that. Nobody could grab me on the street, drag me into a church and make me believe. Religion requires willing subjects who cooperate in their indoctrination. Either that or young kids who tend to believe whatever their parents tell them and then may or may not have the will to break out of the belief system when they are older.

Well whose not willing to eat sugar cookies and drink cool aid? (Cordial)

[quinntar]

 

 

yes we were talking about this on another thread. i don't know about the sitting and standing, but I believe the group singing has a lot to do with it, not just the music they play, but the power that singing in a group has over the individual.

group singing creates a chemical high. It's good for you, it causes bonding, and is a proven way to fend off depression, it's good for your body in many ways. Good! that's really good for your health if once or twice a week you get together with a bunch of people and group sing. you will live longer and you will be happier. I am actually convinced that this is the sole cause of people feeling uplifted after a service, because people who group sing in other settings, school choir, etc, experience the same high.

In church they use it as a tool to make people receptive to the message in the sermon. they get everyone buzzing and comfortable around everyone they are surrounded with in the pews, like bees in a hive. tuned into each others vibrations (literally, your heart syncs up with the hearts of those around you, I imagine this has more effects that we have yet to document). Then while you are on this warm fuzzy emotional high, the preacher delivers the sermon, then after the sermon, you sing again. In the church I attended, there was a very large kitchen, where food was served afterward. sharing food with others and just the simple act of eating also has a psychological effect. Couple this with the actual words in the song, and you have an even more pronounced effect.

This causes people to associate these good feelings with whatever message the preacher is giving. the implications of this are huge. this is really and truly brain washing. I'm not claiming that its deliberate in all cases, but that's what it is.

You are getting someone to be comfortable, at least somewhat more comfortable, with concepts that would normally cause a high amount of stress and anxiety. You convince people that they feel warm and fuzzy because they are experiencing something SUPERNATURAL, when what they are experiencing is the power of being connected with the people around them, taking deep breaths, relaxing their muscles, and getting those feel good chemicals flowing. People convince themselves that this can only be found at church, when in fact, this effect is easy to duplicate in a more healthy setting, with no mental strings attached.

I imagine it would be very therapeutic to organize secular choirs for therapy reasons specifically for recovery from religion. a black mass if you will, as I recall they originated as a cathartic mockery of the formulated sermons of christianity. so something like that, just not necessarily satanic in theme. I would suggest that people who are really struggling from the loss of this weekly sync up with other human beings should find, or create, another way to group sing. or at the very least sing as much as you can by yourself. literally, live life to your own beat. if you don't, you may fall prey to someone else's. *edit* ha! posted this before I saw Quadshet had posted something similar.

Didn't they do hypnotic tests in the 60's and discovered that a person can't be mind controlled? But religion seems to do that.

those tests they did back then we're mostly hogwash, but have you heard of the little Albert experiment? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Albert_experiment

People can be conditioned to fear and detest things that are not dangerous, by using innate fears as a tool of conditioning.

"The wages of sin is death" people fear death. The fear of death is an innate fear. It can be overcome, but it's roots run deep. People already WANT to belive there is an escape, that is a biological fact, a driving force of survival. When threatened with the idea of death, the fight or flight response kicks in, a chemical haze falls between you conscious mind and your center of reasoning (oversimplified) It is a very simple matter to then condition people to associate normal behaviors and feelings (lust,selfishness,skepticism, stubbornness, pride,) with the intense fear of death. But this alone is not as successful as paring such conditioning with a strong incentivization. A sense of community which you perhaps havent felt before, a soothing forgiveness and acceptance for the "sins" you have associated with the fear of death, creating an OCD like complex of fear, doubt, relief. Fear doubt, relief. Wash, rinse repeat. And lastly the idea of heaven,a promise of a final cessation to that endless cycle of inner turmoil.

Conditioning exists in some level in all aspects of society. Religion is the cancerous version.

Can't they see that? I was in church Sunday gone and I could feel crazy, but no one seemed to mind how nutz they looked. The pastor there is a very aware guy, I've been visiting him in his home for weeks and he doesn't act brainwashed.

 

Hmm, I have to think.

[quinntar]

 

Does anyone understand the reason why the church's service is formulaic. They all seem to follow a pattern, and I'd like to learn from Christian's and non christians alike why it has been arranged in that fashion.

 

As far as I know from the bible it doesn't speak about the format of church service, other than the mentality and gifts a teacher of Christ should have.

 

Also I would like to know how the modern priesthood/brotherhood is anything like it was in the 12 Apostle's day, and why Christians never continued the Apostleship.

 

Thankyou.

Your first question I guess has to do with cultural preferences and past traditions.

You are correct. The N.T. does not command a specific format on how to conduct a service. One reason, I think, the Christian faith and in practice is so free and refreshing.

The Apostolic Age ended with the death of the Apostles. John was the last one to pass on.

 

Now…

 

But you are God’s “chosen generation”, his “royal priesthood”, his “holy nation”, his “peculiar people”—all the old titles of God’s people now belong to you.

 

1 Peter 2:10 (Phillips)

But there kinda is a format, which the new testament doesn't command. Also there is not a unanimous voice among the new testament writers on the end of the apostleship.

 

Do you think Christianity ended a long time ago.

[miamia]

 

 

 

yes we were talking about this on another thread. i don't know about the sitting and standing, but I believe the group singing has a lot to do with it, not just the music they play, but the power that singing in a group has over the individual.

group singing creates a chemical high. It's good for you, it causes bonding, and is a proven way to fend off depression, it's good for your body in many ways. Good! that's really good for your health if once or twice a week you get together with a bunch of people and group sing. you will live longer and you will be happier. I am actually convinced that this is the sole cause of people feeling uplifted after a service, because people who group sing in other settings, school choir, etc, experience the same high.

In church they use it as a tool to make people receptive to the message in the sermon. they get everyone buzzing and comfortable around everyone they are surrounded with in the pews, like bees in a hive. tuned into each others vibrations (literally, your heart syncs up with the hearts of those around you, I imagine this has more effects that we have yet to document). Then while you are on this warm fuzzy emotional high, the preacher delivers the sermon, then after the sermon, you sing again. In the church I attended, there was a very large kitchen, where food was served afterward. sharing food with others and just the simple act of eating also has a psychological effect. Couple this with the actual words in the song, and you have an even more pronounced effect.

This causes people to associate these good feelings with whatever message the preacher is giving. the implications of this are huge. this is really and truly brain washing. I'm not claiming that its deliberate in all cases, but that's what it is.

You are getting someone to be comfortable, at least somewhat more comfortable, with concepts that would normally cause a high amount of stress and anxiety. You convince people that they feel warm and fuzzy because they are experiencing something SUPERNATURAL, when what they are experiencing is the power of being connected with the people around them, taking deep breaths, relaxing their muscles, and getting those feel good chemicals flowing. People convince themselves that this can only be found at church, when in fact, this effect is easy to duplicate in a more healthy setting, with no mental strings attached.

I imagine it would be very therapeutic to organize secular choirs for therapy reasons specifically for recovery from religion. a black mass if you will, as I recall they originated as a cathartic mockery of the formulated sermons of christianity. so something like that, just not necessarily satanic in theme. I would suggest that people who are really struggling from the loss of this weekly sync up with other human beings should find, or create, another way to group sing. or at the very least sing as much as you can by yourself. literally, live life to your own beat. if you don't, you may fall prey to someone else's. *edit* ha! posted this before I saw Quadshet had posted something similar.

Didn't they do hypnotic tests in the 60's and discovered that a person can't be mind controlled? But religion seems to do that.

those tests they did back then we're mostly hogwash, but have you heard of the little Albert experiment? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Albert_experiment

People can be conditioned to fear and detest things that are not dangerous, by using innate fears as a tool of conditioning.

"The wages of sin is death" people fear death. The fear of death is an innate fear. It can be overcome, but it's roots run deep. People already WANT to belive there is an escape, that is a biological fact, a driving force of survival. When threatened with the idea of death, the fight or flight response kicks in, a chemical haze falls between you conscious mind and your center of reasoning (oversimplified) It is a very simple matter to then condition people to associate normal behaviors and feelings (lust,selfishness,skepticism, stubbornness, pride,) with the intense fear of death. But this alone is not as successful as paring such conditioning with a strong incentivization. A sense of community which you perhaps havent felt before, a soothing forgiveness and acceptance for the "sins" you have associated with the fear of death, creating an OCD like complex of fear, doubt, relief. Fear doubt, relief. Wash, rinse repeat. And lastly the idea of heaven,a promise of a final cessation to that endless cycle of inner turmoil.

Conditioning exists in some level in all aspects of society. Religion is the cancerous version.

Can't they see that? I was in church Sunday gone and I could feel crazy, but no one seemed to mind how nutz they looked. The pastor there is a very aware guy, I've been visiting him in his home for weeks and he doesn't act brainwashed.

 

Hmm, I have to think.

 

brainwashing in the hollywood , "programming code words into someones brain to cause amnesia and make them perform specific tasks on command" type of brainwashing, does not exist. Social conditioning doesn't just turn people into zombies. You are conditioned, I am conditioned. It's natural social mechanism.  

[mwc]

Does anyone understand the reason why the church's service is formulaic. They all seem to follow a pattern, and I'd like to learn from Christian's and non christians alike why it has been arranged in that fashion.

 

As far as I know from the bible it doesn't speak about the format of church service, other than the mentality and gifts a teacher of Christ should have.

 

Also I would like to know how the modern priesthood/brotherhood is anything like it was in the 12 Apostle's day, and why Christians never continued the Apostleship.

 

Thankyou.

     You have to stand up every now and again to wake people up.

 

     Pews weren't invented until the Middle Ages and standing to pray was the norm so I would imagine that when pews started to make their way into services it wasn't right to pray, which would include other forms of worship like singing, sitting down.  Over the years these things have become acceptable since sitting is now the rule as opposed to the exception.

 

     Well, if the 12 apostles never existed except for literature then it's pretty easy to see why they were short lived.  However, if you wish to believe that they were all quite real then their tradition lives on in the sense that they were martyrs which meant "witness" (which was later became someone who was killed for their faith and stories were written to reflect this meaning).  To be a martyr for jesus meant to go around and tell people about your belief in jesus and this religion.  Essentially, what the Acts hints at with what Saul does.  This is clearly different from sitting inside a church for an hour or so from week to week.

 

          mwc

[Margee]

This article has many interesting points. http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-deprogram.html

   

and Mind control: http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-cultinfo.html

 

(hug)

 

Quote: 

 

''Understand the games that the mind-programmers and brain-washers play on people's heads, and the techniques that they use for mind-control.

 

For instance, there is the phenomenon called "cognitive dissonance". What it means is: People want to keep all of their beliefs, actions, thoughts, and feelings in harmony with each other. People want to do what they believe is right and good, and if they do otherwise, they feel bad — they feel "dissonance". The "dissonance" is just like musical dissonance — it feels jarring and discordant and wrong.

 

Brain-washers have discovered that they can use cognitive dissonance to change people's behavior, beliefs, feelings, and thoughts — force a change in one, and the others will follow. If you force people to perform certain actions, they will eventually come to believe that it's okay — it must be okay, because they wouldn't want to be doing bad things all of the time.''

[midniterider]

I can't speak for more the more traditional forms of christianity; but, from my experience, pentecostal church services are designed mainly to maximize the emotional experience.

 

Cry those dollars into the collection plate.

[Lilith666]

I read qadeshet's "15 Signs Your Church is a Cult" link and the one about guilt trips struck a chord. My church (the one I used to attend, but no longer do when I'm not at home) isn't a cult in the sense that they bleed people of their money, but it's as much a cult as the rest of Christianity, in that it keeps people stuck believing in Jesus. The pastor loves guilt trips about your relationship with god, are you following god enough, are you really thinking about god at church or are you just waiting for it to end so you can go home and watch football? Whether he intends to or not, based on my experience, it plants the idea that you aren't passionate enough and must re-evaluate your life to become even more committed. He said nonsense like "prayer is a two-way conversation," which made me feel guilty that I wasn't literally hearing god talk back to me, and I did not have a healthy relationship with Jesus. "Putting god on the back burner" is one of his favorite phrases.

 

My church definitely loves the narrative that non-Christians are "unsaved," "of the world," "those who have no hope." That they're just completely selfish and materialistic, obsessed with sex and drugs, and of course secretly miserable. They keep talking about compassion and god's love, but for a bunch of super-compassionate people, they enjoy painting anyone who doesn't believe their religion as shallow and unhappy because they refuse to give up their non-Christ-centered "lifestyle."

[quinntar]

 

 

 

 

yes we were talking about this on another thread. i don't know about the sitting and standing, but I believe the group singing has a lot to do with it, not just the music they play, but the power that singing in a group has over the individual.

group singing creates a chemical high. It's good for you, it causes bonding, and is a proven way to fend off depression, it's good for your body in many ways. Good! that's really good for your health if once or twice a week you get together with a bunch of people and group sing. you will live longer and you will be happier. I am actually convinced that this is the sole cause of people feeling uplifted after a service, because people who group sing in other settings, school choir, etc, experience the same high.

In church they use it as a tool to make people receptive to the message in the sermon. they get everyone buzzing and comfortable around everyone they are surrounded with in the pews, like bees in a hive. tuned into each others vibrations (literally, your heart syncs up with the hearts of those around you, I imagine this has more effects that we have yet to document). Then while you are on this warm fuzzy emotional high, the preacher delivers the sermon, then after the sermon, you sing again. In the church I attended, there was a very large kitchen, where food was served afterward. sharing food with others and just the simple act of eating also has a psychological effect. Couple this with the actual words in the song, and you have an even more pronounced effect.

This causes people to associate these good feelings with whatever message the preacher is giving. the implications of this are huge. this is really and truly brain washing. I'm not claiming that its deliberate in all cases, but that's what it is.

You are getting someone to be comfortable, at least somewhat more comfortable, with concepts that would normally cause a high amount of stress and anxiety. You convince people that they feel warm and fuzzy because they are experiencing something SUPERNATURAL, when what they are experiencing is the power of being connected with the people around them, taking deep breaths, relaxing their muscles, and getting those feel good chemicals flowing. People convince themselves that this can only be found at church, when in fact, this effect is easy to duplicate in a more healthy setting, with no mental strings attached.

I imagine it would be very therapeutic to organize secular choirs for therapy reasons specifically for recovery from religion. a black mass if you will, as I recall they originated as a cathartic mockery of the formulated sermons of christianity. so something like that, just not necessarily satanic in theme. I would suggest that people who are really struggling from the loss of this weekly sync up with other human beings should find, or create, another way to group sing. or at the very least sing as much as you can by yourself. literally, live life to your own beat. if you don't, you may fall prey to someone else's. *edit* ha! posted this before I saw Quadshet had posted something similar.

Didn't they do hypnotic tests in the 60's and discovered that a person can't be mind controlled? But religion seems to do that.

those tests they did back then we're mostly hogwash, but have you heard of the little Albert experiment? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Albert_experiment

People can be conditioned to fear and detest things that are not dangerous, by using innate fears as a tool of conditioning.

"The wages of sin is death" people fear death. The fear of death is an innate fear. It can be overcome, but it's roots run deep. People already WANT to belive there is an escape, that is a biological fact, a driving force of survival. When threatened with the idea of death, the fight or flight response kicks in, a chemical haze falls between you conscious mind and your center of reasoning (oversimplified) It is a very simple matter to then condition people to associate normal behaviors and feelings (lust,selfishness,skepticism, stubbornness, pride,) with the intense fear of death. But this alone is not as successful as paring such conditioning with a strong incentivization. A sense of community which you perhaps havent felt before, a soothing forgiveness and acceptance for the "sins" you have associated with the fear of death, creating an OCD like complex of fear, doubt, relief. Fear doubt, relief. Wash, rinse repeat. And lastly the idea of heaven,a promise of a final cessation to that endless cycle of inner turmoil.

Conditioning exists in some level in all aspects of society. Religion is the cancerous version.

Can't they see that? I was in church Sunday gone and I could feel crazy, but no one seemed to mind how nutz they looked. The pastor there is a very aware guy, I've been visiting him in his home for weeks and he doesn't act brainwashed.

 

Hmm, I have to think.

brainwashing in the hollywood , "programming code words into someones brain to cause amnesia and make them perform specific tasks on command" type of brainwashing, does not exist. Social conditioning doesn't just turn people into zombies. You are conditioned, I am conditioned. It's natural social mechanism.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NwOePZA-6_c