Guest Les Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 / 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burny Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 I'm not quite sure how to respond but thanks for sharing your struggle. It sounds to me that you are still in the midst of deconverting which is a time of intense turmoil and upheaval. You are naturally questioning everything including the point and purpose of life. I don't want to offer too much advise other than hang on. It's a rough ride but things will get better. One thing that helped me get over my fear of Yahweh was researching where he comes from. I figured people used to be so scared of other gods that they would sacrifice their own children to them. Since I wasn't scared of their gods, why should I be so worried about Yahweh? He's no more real or scary than Zeus, Baal or a plethora of other deities that have been worshipped over the past 10,000 years or so. Somehow this helped me get over my fears. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qadeshet Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 Welcome! Lately, I am trying to pick up the pieces. I am becoming myself again. I am looking for a reason to continue living, all the while jack-assing my way through life. It seems as life is way more meaningless now than it ever was before. Life is bland, pasty, and almost too posh. My goal in life now is to survive, since my story with God is over. I am doing what I can to attain happiness, all the while knowing that I may go to hell, or maybe I won't. Or maybe there isn't a God. But in my heart of hearts, I know that I butchered my shot at the best thing that's ever happened to me (no sympathy necessary). The past is the past, let it go and look forward. Whatever anyone else tells you, happiness comes from within. This has been my manta for 40 years: "Every day I grow happier and happier, healthier and healthier." Looking for things to make you happy will never last long. You need an attitude change. Some boring and bland eternal existance was never much of a hope anyway. The Future is what you make it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Margee Posted June 8, 2016 Moderator Share Posted June 8, 2016 Les, Welcome to Ex-c and thank you for sharing your story with us. I personally can relate to a lot you said. Keep reading..keep posting. It can be a bumpy ride for some of us. It was for me. I also didn't think there was any meaning to life (without god) for a while, but in time you will learn how to create your own meaning. The numbness you feel will slowly go away. You will be free to create your own 'world view'. We are here for you. The early stages of deconversion can be very confusing so don't be afraid to post your worries and concerns. It's a great place to meet new friends who have gone through the same thing as you. I'm glad you found Ex-c. Looking forward to hearing more from you. (hug) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Les Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 / Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Les Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 / Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Les Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 Les, Welcome to Ex-c and thank you for sharing your story with us. I personally can relate to a lot you said. Keep reading..keep posting. It can be a bumpy ride for some of us. It was for me. I also didn't think there was any meaning to life (without god) for a while, but in time you will learn how to create your own meaning. The numbness you feel will slowly go away. You will be free to create your own 'world view'. We are here for you. The early stages of deconversion can be very confusing so don't be afraid to post your worries and concerns. It's a great place to meet new friends who have gone through the same thing as you. I'm glad you found Ex-c. Looking forward to hearing more from you. (hug) (hug) back! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangitbobby83 Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 Welcome to ex-c Les!Deconversion can be a long winding road, if you need help with anything, just ask. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Les Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 Welcome to ex-c Les! Deconversion can be a long winding road, if you need help with anything, just ask. Thank you lol and will do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qadeshet Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 It definitely is a "rough ride". Not because I don't know who I am, but because it's rough-ish to wrap my head around the idea that God really, REALLY, does not ever want to have me back as his own. That doesn't "hurt my feelings", but rather is simply a tough concept to digest. How can a non-existent "god" want you back? Why would you want to be a slave again to religious dogma and control? Do you really want to be a sheep belonging to some shepherd? A shepherd doesn't keep sheep for the benefit of the sheep, but for his own income. I am doing what I can to attain happiness, all the while knowing that I may go to hell, or maybe I won't. Or maybe there isn't a God. The only "god" worthy of our love is one who neither wants nor needs our worship. Worship is slave behavior. Embrace the tiny possibility that some god may send you to hell. I would rather burn in hell than serve any "god" that would send me there, for any reason. He(or it) can kiss my ass. Don't forget, Islam also has hell for non believers. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Les Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 It definitely is a "rough ride". Not because I don't know who I am, but because it's rough-ish to wrap my head around the idea that God really, REALLY, does not ever want to have me back as his own. That doesn't "hurt my feelings", but rather is simply a tough concept to digest. How can a non-existent "god" want you back? Why would you want to be a slave again to religious dogma and control? Do you really want to be a sheep belonging to some shepherd? A shepherd doesn't keep sheep for the benefit of the sheep, but for his own income. I am doing what I can to attain happiness, all the while knowing that I may go to hell, or maybe I won't. Or maybe there isn't a God. The only "god" worthy of our love is one who neither wants nor needs our worship. Worship is slave behavior. Embrace the tiny possibility that some god may send you to hell. I would rather burn in hell than serve any "god" that would send me there, for any reason. He(or it) can kiss my ass. Don't forget, Islam also has hell for non believers. I understand your issue with religious crap - been there, done that (duh). However, I wish God was real, if He is (quite contradicting wordspeak), but will not elaborate about why this is what I desire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qadeshet Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 It definitely is a "rough ride". Not because I don't know who I am, but because it's rough-ish to wrap my head around the idea that God really, REALLY, does not ever want to have me back as his own. That doesn't "hurt my feelings", but rather is simply a tough concept to digest. How can a non-existent "god" want you back? Why would you want to be a slave again to religious dogma and control? Do you really want to be a sheep belonging to some shepherd? A shepherd doesn't keep sheep for the benefit of the sheep, but for his own income. I am doing what I can to attain happiness, all the while knowing that I may go to hell, or maybe I won't. Or maybe there isn't a God. The only "god" worthy of our love is one who neither wants nor needs our worship. Worship is slave behavior. Embrace the tiny possibility that some god may send you to hell. I would rather burn in hell than serve any "god" that would send me there, for any reason. He(or it) can kiss my ass. Don't forget, Islam also has hell for non believers. I understand your issue with religious crap - been there, done that (duh). However, I wish God was real, if He is (quite contradicting wordspeak), but will not elaborate about why this is what I desire. I wish that a million children didn't die every year from disease and starvation. You would have better luck looking for a magic lamp to fulfill your wishes. What we wish doesn't matter, only what we ourselves can change. I can only promise you what many of us have already experienced. When the deconversion process is complete, you will finally know what real happiness is. When I was finally free, it was the most incredible feeling of joy I've ever experienced. What Religion promises, but can't deliver. Forty years later, it's still with me. It does get better. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Les Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 It definitely is a "rough ride". Not because I don't know who I am, but because it's rough-ish to wrap my head around the idea that God really, REALLY, does not ever want to have me back as his own. That doesn't "hurt my feelings", but rather is simply a tough concept to digest. How can a non-existent "god" want you back? Why would you want to be a slave again to religious dogma and control? Do you really want to be a sheep belonging to some shepherd? A shepherd doesn't keep sheep for the benefit of the sheep, but for his own income. I am doing what I can to attain happiness, all the while knowing that I may go to hell, or maybe I won't. Or maybe there isn't a God. The only "god" worthy of our love is one who neither wants nor needs our worship. Worship is slave behavior. Embrace the tiny possibility that some god may send you to hell. I would rather burn in hell than serve any "god" that would send me there, for any reason. He(or it) can kiss my ass. Don't forget, Islam also has hell for non believers. I understand your issue with religious crap - been there, done that (duh). However, I wish God was real, if He is (quite contradicting wordspeak), but will not elaborate about why this is what I desire. I wish that a million children didn't die every year from disease and starvation. You would have better luck looking for a magic lamp to fulfill your wishes. What we wish doesn't matter, only what we ourselves can change. I can only promise you what many of us have already experienced. When the deconversion process is complete, you will finally know what real happiness is. When I was finally free, it was the most incredible feeling of joy I've ever experienced. What Religion promises, but can't deliver. Forty years later, it's still with me. It does get better. Actually, I have already experienced "real happiness". Before I was saved, I was able to express myself, thoughts, feelings, etc., in a way that made me avoid the idea of God, assuming that the happiness would go away because of Him... And it did (lol). And I disagree with your sentiment about what we wishing for not mattering. In fact, this whole forum seems to be centered around making people more independent, happy, smarter, etc., (i.e., fulfilling their 'wishes'). In my humble opinion, if you are not doing what you "wish for" (poor word choice, on my part), then you are not really living at all. There are those who would give up their happiness in order to live a mediocre life - I do not fall into that category. To clarify, I can see where you are coming from (again). Before life with God, I saw religious folk as depressed, suppressed, and overall snotty people who didn't know what they truly believed. It was my life goal not to become one of them - my personal happiness was (again) paramount in the situation. Following "being saved" by our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ (I say that almost in a mocking way), I slowly but surely became one of the people I had previously hated. And now, about a year later, I am discovering that there are no excuses when it comes to living a morally decent life (lol) and that God cannot and will not be saving me anytime soon. But more important than this, I am still interested in my own happiness and "wishes" (btw sorry for the poor word choice). As Katy Perry once said.. "This is the part of me that you're never gonna ever take away from me." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burny Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 I think what qadeshet was trying to say was that wishing God was really there has no bearing on whether or not he actually is. Just like wishing we didn't die doesn't make heaven or hell real places. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qadeshet Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 I think what qadeshet was trying to say was that wishing God was really there has no bearing on whether or not he actually is. Just like wishing we didn't die doesn't make heaven or hell real places. I wasn't really trying to be obtuse. Les, on 09 Jun 2016 - 11:10 AM, said: And I disagree with your sentiment about what we wishing for not mattering. In fact, this whole forum seems to be centered around making people more independent, happy, smarter, etc., (i.e., fulfilling their 'wishes'). In my humble opinion, if you are not doing what you "wish for" (poor word choice, on my part), then you are not really living at all. We simply can't grant impossible wishes. Your wish was that "god" was real. If your "wish" is help with deconverting, we will try to help. Setting and meeting reasonable goals work better than wishing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Les Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 I think what qadeshet was trying to say was that wishing God was really there has no bearing on whether or not he actually is. Just like wishing we didn't die doesn't make heaven or hell real places. I wasn't really trying to be obtuse. Les, on 09 Jun 2016 - 11:10 AM, said: And I disagree with your sentiment about what we wishing for not mattering. In fact, this whole forum seems to be centered around making people more independent, happy, smarter, etc., (i.e., fulfilling their 'wishes'). In my humble opinion, if you are not doing what you "wish for" (poor word choice, on my part), then you are not really living at all. We simply can't grant impossible wishes. Your wish was that "god" was real. If your "wish" is help with deconverting, we will try to help. Setting and meeting reasonable goals work better than wishing. Qadeshet, please read sentence two of my testimony: "I am sharing this as a commemoration of my ex-salvation and a historical record that could help someone else." Nowhere in said testimony did I say that I was looking for a genie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Les Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 I think what qadeshet was trying to say was that wishing God was really there has no bearing on whether or not he actually is. Just like wishing we didn't die doesn't make heaven or hell real places. Likewise, wishing God is not there has no bearing on whether he isn't or is. Similarly, one could say that wishing heaven or hell were not "real places" doesn't make them more unreal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator TrueFreedom Posted June 9, 2016 Moderator Share Posted June 9, 2016 I think what qadeshet was trying to say was that wishing God was really there has no bearing on whether or not he actually is. Just like wishing we didn't die doesn't make heaven or hell real places. Likewise, wishing God is not there has no bearing on whether he isn't or is. Similarly, one could say that wishing heaven or hell were not "real places" doesn't make them more unreal. Believing heaven and hell to be real doesn't make them more real either, except in one's own mind. The same goes for "God." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Les Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 I think what qadeshet was trying to say was that wishing God was really there has no bearing on whether or not he actually is. Just like wishing we didn't die doesn't make heaven or hell real places. Likewise, wishing God is not there has no bearing on whether he isn't or is. Similarly, one could say that wishing heaven or hell were not "real places" doesn't make them more unreal. Believing heaven and hell to be real doesn't make them more real either, except in one's own mind. The same goes for "God." You are right - the existence of God is not affected by what one thinks about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator TrueFreedom Posted June 10, 2016 Moderator Share Posted June 10, 2016 I think what qadeshet was trying to say was that wishing God was really there has no bearing on whether or not he actually is. Just like wishing we didn't die doesn't make heaven or hell real places. Likewise, wishing God is not there has no bearing on whether he isn't or is. Similarly, one could say that wishing heaven or hell were not "real places" doesn't make them more unreal. Believing heaven and hell to be real doesn't make them more real either, except in one's own mind. The same goes for "God." You are right - the existence of God is not affected by what one thinks about it. And I'm happy to discuss how untenable the existence of the popular idea of the Christian god is, as are many others here, if you're interested... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Les Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 I think what qadeshet was trying to say was that wishing God was really there has no bearing on whether or not he actually is. Just like wishing we didn't die doesn't make heaven or hell real places. Likewise, wishing God is not there has no bearing on whether he isn't or is. Similarly, one could say that wishing heaven or hell were not "real places" doesn't make them more unreal. Believing heaven and hell to be real doesn't make them more real either, except in one's own mind. The same goes for "God." You are right - the existence of God is not affected by what one thinks about it. And I'm happy to discuss how untenable the existence of the popular idea of the Christian god is, as are many others here, if you're interested... Is that a threat? And no, I am not interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator TrueFreedom Posted June 10, 2016 Moderator Share Posted June 10, 2016 No, it wasn't a threat, love. I'm sorry that you're struggling... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qadeshet Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 Qadeshet, please read sentence two of my testimony: "I am sharing this as a commemoration of my ex-salvation and a historical record that could help someone else." Nowhere in said testimony did I say that I was looking for a genie. As far as I'm aware, only the Jinn grant wishes, usually at a terrible price. Wishing works about as well as prayer. It doesn't. "if wishes were horses, beggars would ride." Sounds like you're caught between stage 2 and stage 3 of the deconversion process. What you call your ex-salvation, I call my ex-slave condition. Stage 2 is Doubt, and stage 3 is Darknes(The Dark Night of the Soul). Into the Clear Air I hope you reach stage 4: Illumination When I lost my faith in Christianity the first time, I had an unusual perception. It was like a waking dream. I had this vivid mental image of myself sitting in a prison cell. It was dark and bleak. Suddenly the door swung open and a stream of light invaded my darkness. I hesitated a moment, then got up and followed the stream of light to the outside. My eyes had trouble adjusting. But once outside, I felt the warmth of the sunlight, heard the sounds of birds, and beheld the unspeakable beauty of plants, flowers and trees in peak summer. Then I ‘heard’ the following words: ‘Is there any argument, no matter how articulate or persuasive, that can convince you it is better to be in a prison than outside in the beautiful garden?’ - See more at: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/daylightatheism/essays/into-the-clear-air/#sthash.bWuSPRXD.dpuf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts