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Did "who I Am" Change With Deconversion?


Insightful

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Hello 

As I continue struggling in my marriage to a believing wife something that comes up repeatedly is that she says who I am has changed. That I am not the person she married. Not the person she promised to love. 

 I am curious to know your thoughts on this. Does rejecting certain beliefs fundamentally change Who We Are? I feel like I can see both sides of the argument. from my perspective I think I'm the same person I always was. This same Essence Within Me that found meaning hope and purpose and Truth in Christianity is the essence that was willing to look at the difficult aspects of my faith and say that I can no longer Square those or reconcile them in a meaningful way that would Preserve my Evangelical faith.

 So on the surface my change in faith looks like a radical shift in who I am but in reality underneath myself as a believer and myself as a skeptic lies the same person who values truth love compassion Justice and integrity. What has changed is what I believe to be true about the world around me. So while I think differently about Christianity and God  at the core I am  fundamentally the same person.

My core values have not changed. They just manifest in a new way in light of new experiences and information and perspective.

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You cant win.  

 

If are actually exhibiting real behavior change, then, her assessment is valid and correct.

 

If you are not actually exhibiting real behavior change she will feel different and conflicted due to your new "belief" set competing with her faith based belief set.  

 

Bottom line:  She does not love you unconditionally.  She is not valuing/devaluing you for what you are.  She is valuing/devaluing you for what you are not.

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Hello 

As I continue struggling in my marriage to a believing wife something that comes up repeatedly is that she says who I am has changed. That I am not the person she married. Not the person she promised to love. 

 I am curious to know your thoughts on this. Does rejecting certain beliefs fundamentally change Who We Are? I feel like I can see both sides of the argument. from my perspective I think I'm the same person I always was. This same Essence Within Me that found meaning hope and purpose and Truth in Christianity is the essence that was willing to look at the difficult aspects of my faith and say that I can no longer Square those or reconcile them in a meaningful way that would Preserve my Evangelical faith.

 So on the surface my change in faith looks like a radical shift in who I am but in reality underneath myself as a believer and myself as a skeptic lies the same person who values truth love compassion Justice and integrity. What has changed is what I believe to be true about the world around me. So while I think differently about Christianity and God  at the core I am  fundamentally the same person.

My core values have not changed. They just manifest in a new way in light of new experiences and information and perspective.

 

Those of us who deconvert actually do put truth first. Your wife puts her invisible friend first, the truth be damned. Some marriages can survive this, some can't.

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Hey Insightful,

 

I grew up in the O.C. Spent 40+ years in Tustin.

 

Anyway, I'm in the same boat. The wife is not only a screem'n fundy but a fascist to boot. I'm not sure if the fascist thing is due to her taking the evangelical aspect way the hell too seriously or if she always was a tyrant  and the xtian crap gives her an excuse to treat those who are not EXACTLY like her like absolute sh*t.

 

But, to answer your question, I am the same person as I was when I was an xtian. The wife, however, is abscessing  over my disbelief and, therefore, believes I am different. 

 

Sounds to me like your wife is wanting the marriage to end but believes that it is a sin to end the marriage. The out is if your spouse is the one who initiates the divorce then it's OK. (Hope that was clear).

 

Even though life on the home front is unbearable some days I still find it hard to bail. I hope it helps some just knowing you are not alone in this.

    - MOHO (Mind Of His Own)

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You are the sum total of your biology and your life experiences. Her expectations were unrealistic. Big parts of people change all the time, very quickly, some more than others. some people appear to stay mostly the same all their lives, and the personalities of some appear change so drastically as to make them essentially unrecognizable  day to day, month to month, year to year. This is nothing to feel guilt over. Change can be painful to the inflexible, but when you committed, you didn't promise to stay the same. To do so would have been futile anyway. 

 

I have changed. I speak up more, I am not burdened by guilt and fear, I am openly skeptical now, which is a trait most reviled by the insecure and inflexible. But the thing is, I have always been skeptical. It was my fear that prevented me from speaking up. The people that really love who I really am would not prefer me afraid and silenced. That's what controlling individuals want. Everyone does, I think, through a combination of factors, have something that makes them, them. Even if it isn't apparent. There are traits that you posses that your wife may have not been aware of when she committed. But the concept of commitment is not, "I love the way you act and behave in this moment, but don't learn anything new or let your future life experiences impact you in any way or the deals off". this is an INCREDIBLY unrealistic expectation. However, people do make a point to seek out mates that are like themselves. If your wife's entire identity resides in religion, which is what her religion demands, then this kind of change is enough to turn her world upside down. But she has to own that. for her own happiness. 

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if you change your beliefs, it does kind of alter how your perception of reality is...so who you are is not who you were before. That does not mean it's a bad thing though. When believers say that someone has changed due to rejecting Christianity, they mean it in a bad way..like it's a bad thing that they chose to believe differently. The reality is: people change constantly. It's a part of life. Look at the seasons change, look at the night sky turning to day, etc. The whole world is full of constant change. People change. Who you are may have been altered a bit due to how you see things now, and there's nothing wrong with that.

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Thanks guys. I appreciate the support and counsel. It means a lot.

 

I'm happy to hear any other perspectives too.

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I'm nodding my head at all the replies you've recieved. My situation is similar, but I'm the atheist wife married to a believing husband. When he started the "you've changed" stuff, I asked him to give examples. Then he said I seemed to have an edge that I didn't have before. Still, he could not give examples. Like others have said, in a sense I have changed. I am less afraid, less burdened by guilt and fear, and more comfortable with my true self.

 

On the other hand, I have no desire to act out in ways it is assumed by fundamentalists that an atheist would do. They buy into the idea that atheists are depressed, angry, immoral, foolish, have no hope, have no purpose, care only for material things, etc., etc. my husband is trying to find something like that to justify himself. My life has actually become richer and more meaningful to me. Now if only I could break away from the church, which I attend for my husband's sake. He thinks our life would be ruined if anyone knew I didn't believe.

 

The funny thing is, he has changed too. He didn't use to care all that much about being sanctimonious in the past, but I did. When I told him I no longer believed, he picked up the christian banner I had dropped and began waving it full force. He has always believed that God semi- miraculously provided me for him as a christian wife, in answer to his prayers. Now he is very confused.

THAT ALWAYS BOTHERED ME! The idea of god providing a man with a wife, or god providing a woman with a husband. People can be gifted to one another by god, and yet have free will? People are not objects to be given away.

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If you had never told her, she would never have known. Christians are told that the holy spirit changes you into a better person (which doesn't happen), so they they look for the opposite when we no longer have the holy spirit (in their view, because there really isn't one to begin with). So now that she knows, any change she'll see as confirmation that you're not the same person. It's confirmation bias. I'm pretty sure I understand that correctly.

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I went through this with my wife, as well. It's understandably scary for them, since we've spent our whole lives being told that non-believers are automatically immoral, and can't be trusted. She was afraid she wouldn't be able to trust me anymore. She was more afraid I would change than anything. I assured her as well as I could that I hadn't changed my nature at all, and that, in fact, not believing in an afterlife makes this life just that much more important. Just because I'm certain now that what we always believed wasn't true, doesn't mean that I don't understand the lessons we've learned over 30+ years together.

 

And over time her fears have been quelled. Turns out I haven't changed, and she can see that.

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That is just a typical manipulation tactic many Christians use on someone who no longer buys into the cult system. It's also known as "conditional love."

 

I recommend we don't let them get away with it.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hello 

As I continue struggling in my marriage to a believing wife something that comes up repeatedly is that she says who I am has changed. That I am not the person she married. Not the person she promised to love. 

 I am curious to know your thoughts on this. Does rejecting certain beliefs fundamentally change Who We Are? I feel like I can see both sides of the argument. from my perspective I think I'm the same person I always was. This same Essence Within Me that found meaning hope and purpose and Truth in Christianity is the essence that was willing to look at the difficult aspects of my faith and say that I can no longer Square those or reconcile them in a meaningful way that would Preserve my Evangelical faith.

 So on the surface my change in faith looks like a radical shift in who I am but in reality underneath myself as a believer and myself as a skeptic lies the same person who values truth love compassion Justice and integrity. What has changed is what I believe to be true about the world around me. So while I think differently about Christianity and God  at the core I am  fundamentally the same person.

My core values have not changed. They just manifest in a new way in light of new experiences and information and perspective.

 

Understand that everyone goes into marriage with expectations. Your wife is expressing ways you've not met her expectations.

 

How to define change? Could you say growth? I think of it as growth concerning myself.

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In my experience, deconversion didn't change "who I am". Rather, it allowed me to finally be the "me" that had been imprisoned for 30 years beneath layers of indoctrination, learned behaviors, knee-jerk reactions, defense mechanisms, and acceptance-based personality traits.

I still don't know that "me" very well; but I do know he ain't the asshole people thought he was.

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In my experience, deco version didn't change "who I am". Rather, it allowed me to finally be the "me" that had been imprisoned for 30 years beneath layers of indoctrination, learned behaviors, knee-jerk reactions, defense mechanisms, and acceptance-based personality traits.

 

I still don't know that "me" very well; but I do know he ain't the asshole people thought he was.

 

Professor, our Worldview was expanded. We discovered that we live in a grand, magnificant Universe without a cruel and vengeful Tyrant bearing down on us. We changed, but our basic morality remained. I know, it's hard to explain.

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Just quit squashing myself down

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We all change who we are every day.  Not necessarily by much - often imperceptibly.  But what I think and do today will be affected by what I've seen, read, heard, the conversations I've had, even whether I am suffering from indigestion.

 

The extent to which a change in belief changes the person is unlikely to be consistent in every case.  And it is likely to be a continuing process.

 

But that is true for every person day to day, regardless of whether the issue is belief.

 

So, on the one hand, your wife is strictly correct.  On the other hand, neither is she precisely the same as she was - and it may be she fears the way you may take her.  But it is utterly unrealistic of her to expect you not to change, and utterly improper to try to force you to return to what you are no longer.

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In my experience, deco version didn't change "who I am". Rather, it allowed me to finally be the "me" that had been imprisoned for 30 years beneath layers of indoctrination, learned behaviors, knee-jerk reactions, defense mechanisms, and acceptance-based personality traits.

 

I still don't know that "me" very well; but I do know he ain't the asshole people thought he was.

 

Professor, our Worldview was expanded. We discovered that we live in a grand, magnificant Universe without a cruel and vengeful Tyrant bearing down on us. We changed, but our basic morality remained. I know, it's hard to explain.

 

I see your point; but I'd argue that the "person" I was inside has remained the same.  A broader world-view, definitely.  My point, though, is that "I" wasn't who I was.  Instead, I was the by-product of all the indoctrination, defense mechanisms, etc.  My "behavior" may have changed; but not the quintessential "me" who was there the whole time.  That's just my own thoughts, though.

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In my experience, deco version didn't change "who I am". Rather, it allowed me to finally be the "me" that had been imprisoned for 30 years beneath layers of indoctrination, learned behaviors, knee-jerk reactions, defense mechanisms, and acceptance-based personality traits.

 

I still don't know that "me" very well; but I do know he ain't the asshole people thought he was.

 

Professor, our Worldview was expanded. We discovered that we live in a grand, magnificant Universe without a cruel and vengeful Tyrant bearing down on us. We changed, but our basic morality remained. I know, it's hard to explain.

 

I see your point; but I'd argue that the "person" I was inside has remained the same.  A broader world-view, definitely.  My point, though, is that "I" wasn't who I was.  Instead, I was the by-product of all the indoctrination, defense mechanisms, etc.  My "behavior" may have changed; but not the quintessential "me" who was there the whole time.  That's just my own thoughts, though.

 

 

We may have to define what "I" even means. Are we the Id, Ego, or the Superego? It's enough to make my brain hurt.

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Yeah, I know. Are we our behaviors; or are we our motivations?

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I'm out, my husband is still in, so I've heard the whole "you've changed" thing, too.  Like many have said, I believe it's both yes and no.  I have changed a tremendous amount, while he has changed very little.  But that isn't all due to my deconversion, though, sure, a lot is.  My husband tells me a lot that I seem bitter and angry.  Maybe I am...?  But I don't feel bitter and angry.  What I feel is fed up and tired of towing the Christian-y line and acting like I don't have problems like the rest of humanity.  I also am tired of acting like crap that DOES rub me the wrong way actually doesn't.  I'm sick of putting on a smile and either biting my tongue or speaking sweetly, when really I'd rather tell someone that I think they're being an idiot, or rude, or hateful, or narrow-minded, or....whatever.  In short, I am not bitter or angry, I'm just over pretending to be someone I'm not.  Which is the other thing...  I was so "not me" for so long; he never met and fell in love with the real me -- he has only ever known the fake, watered-down, "avatar" version of me.  And I am not sure he likes, or loves, the true me....because the true me speaks my mind, doesn't put up with crap, and (most importantly) doesn't believe in Christianity.  The real me is hard for him to accept, and the fake me is hard for him to let go of.  Which I feel partly bad about, but I just can't fake my life, beliefs, and values anymore.

As you can imagine, this has put major strain on our relationship.  (Among other issues.  My deconversion is only the tip of the iceberg.)  I don't know what the future will hold for us, but I don't honestly know how we're going to reconcile this issue.  I'm not going back to the fake me, and he's not embracing the real me....so we're pretty much at an impasse.  Only time will tell.  And oddly, I am at peace with whatever ends up being the outcome.

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Hello 

As I continue struggling in my marriage to a believing wife something that comes up repeatedly is that she says who I am has changed. That I am not the person she married. Not the person she promised to love. 

 I am curious to know your thoughts on this. Does rejecting certain beliefs fundamentally change Who We Are? I feel like I can see both sides of the argument. from my perspective I think I'm the same person I always was. This same Essence Within Me that found meaning hope and purpose and Truth in Christianity is the essence that was willing to look at the difficult aspects of my faith and say that I can no longer Square those or reconcile them in a meaningful way that would Preserve my Evangelical faith.

 So on the surface my change in faith looks like a radical shift in who I am but in reality underneath myself as a believer and myself as a skeptic lies the same person who values truth love compassion Justice and integrity. What has changed is what I believe to be true about the world around me. So while I think differently about Christianity and God  at the core I am  fundamentally the same person.

My core values have not changed. They just manifest in a new way in light of new experiences and information and perspective.

It doesn't change who you are, it changes how you think, and that's what she's uncomfortable with. You no longer share an interpretive framework. If something goes wrong she says "God is testing me". You say "Shit happens, how do I fix it". It's a worldview change, not a personality change.

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I'm out, my husband is still in, so I've heard the whole "you've changed" thing, too.  Like many have said, I believe it's both yes and no.  I have changed a tremendous amount, while he has changed very little.  But that isn't all due to my deconversion, though, sure, a lot is.  My husband tells me a lot that I seem bitter and angry.  Maybe I am...?  But I don't feel bitter and angry.  What I feel is fed up and tired of towing the Christian-y line and acting like I don't have problems like the rest of humanity.  I also am tired of acting like crap that DOES rub me the wrong way actually doesn't.  I'm sick of putting on a smile and either biting my tongue or speaking sweetly, when really I'd rather tell someone that I think they're being an idiot, or rude, or hateful, or narrow-minded, or....whatever.  In short, I am not bitter or angry, I'm just over pretending to be someone I'm not.  Which is the other thing...  I was so "not me" for so long; he never met and fell in love with the real me -- he has only ever known the fake, watered-down, "avatar" version of me.  And I am not sure he likes, or loves, the true me....because the true me speaks my mind, doesn't put up with crap, and (most importantly) doesn't believe in Christianity.  The real me is hard for him to accept, and the fake me is hard for him to let go of.  Which I feel partly bad about, but I just can't fake my life, beliefs, and values anymore.

 

As you can imagine, this has put major strain on our relationship.  (Among other issues.  My deconversion is only the tip of the iceberg.)  I don't know what the future will hold for us, but I don't honestly know how we're going to reconcile this issue.  I'm not going back to the fake me, and he's not embracing the real me....so we're pretty much at an impasse.  Only time will tell.  And oddly, I am at peace with whatever ends up being the outcome.

 

StillMegan, can I ever relate to this. I could have wrote this word for word.

 

I have definitely changed. I do not believe in 'unconditional' love anymore. I once did. I tried real hard throughout my whole life and got real tired. You could say and do whatever you wanted and I didn't buck it. I held in a lot of hurt in my life because of trying to be so 'wonderful'. I wanted to be the perfect 'godly woman'. Ridigwoopsie.gif I would have saved myself a lot of heartbreak by having good boundaries but I didn't. My husband liked me a lot better when I was a 'good little girl' and wouldn't open my mouth. I was still quite religious when I met him. I can never give anyone advice but I know for sure that I would not stay with someone who I didn't have a lot in common with. If my husband was religious, I would have to leave. I just cannot 'put on the dog' anymore. I can still 'love' a lot of people but I choose to do it at a distance if we don't 'click'. And that includes friends and family. So I'm always real nice and respectful to mostly everyone. But you really learn that when you get older. 

 

@ Insightful, I wish you the very best. It's a very hard call what you are going through hon. Keep us posted on how it's going.

 

(hug)

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I'm out, my husband is still in, so I've heard the whole "you've changed" thing, too.  Like many have said, I believe it's both yes and no.  I have changed a tremendous amount, while he has changed very little.  But that isn't all due to my deconversion, though, sure, a lot is.  My husband tells me a lot that I seem bitter and angry.  Maybe I am...?  But I don't feel bitter and angry.  What I feel is fed up and tired of towing the Christian-y line and acting like I don't have problems like the rest of humanity.  I also am tired of acting like crap that DOES rub me the wrong way actually doesn't.  I'm sick of putting on a smile and either biting my tongue or speaking sweetly, when really I'd rather tell someone that I think they're being an idiot, or rude, or hateful, or narrow-minded, or....whatever.  In short, I am not bitter or angry, I'm just over pretending to be someone I'm not.  Which is the other thing...  I was so "not me" for so long; he never met and fell in love with the real me -- he has only ever known the fake, watered-down, "avatar" version of me.  And I am not sure he likes, or loves, the true me....because the true me speaks my mind, doesn't put up with crap, and (most importantly) doesn't believe in Christianity.  The real me is hard for him to accept, and the fake me is hard for him to let go of.  Which I feel partly bad about, but I just can't fake my life, beliefs, and values anymore.

 

As you can imagine, this has put major strain on our relationship.  (Among other issues.  My deconversion is only the tip of the iceberg.)  I don't know what the future will hold for us, but I don't honestly know how we're going to reconcile this issue.  I'm not going back to the fake me, and he's not embracing the real me....so we're pretty much at an impasse.  Only time will tell.  And oddly, I am at peace with whatever ends up being the outcome.

 

StillMegan, can I ever relate to this. I could have wrote this word for word.

 

I have definitely changed. I do not believe in 'unconditional' love anymore. I once did. I tried real hard throughout my whole life and got real tired. You could say and do whatever you wanted and I didn't buck it. I held in a lot of hurt in my life because of trying to be so 'wonderful'. I wanted to be the perfect 'godly woman'. Ridigwoopsie.gif I would have saved myself a lot of heartbreak by having good boundaries but I didn't. My husband liked me a lot better when I was a 'good little girl' and wouldn't open my mouth. I was still quite religious when I met him. I can never give anyone advice but I know for sure that I would not stay with someone who I didn't have a lot in common with. If my husband was religious, I would have to leave. I just cannot 'put on the dog' anymore. I can still 'love' a lot of people but I choose to do it at a distance if we don't 'click'. And that includes friends and family. So I'm always real nice and respectful to mostly everyone. But you really learn that when you get older. 

 

@ Insightful, I wish you the very best. It's a very hard call what you are going through hon. Keep us posted on how it's going.

 

(hug)

 

 

 

That's exactly the epiphany I had the other day, after we had an argument about beliefs and he told me that he "believes what the Bible says about the destination of my eternal soul."  I was pretty hurt by that.  Never mind the fact I'm a pretty good person, a dedicated educator, a good mom....and I try to make the world a better place everyday with how I live my life and treat others with kindness, love, acceptance, and mindfulness.  (He, on the other hand, is a very go-through-the-motions, stagnant person.)  He pulled out the whole "faith vs. works" argument.  I was upset because it was in that moment that I realized that 18 years of getting to know me, my motives, my heart, my work ethic...all of it...means nothing to him -- he chooses what his religion SAYS about me, over what he actually KNOWS about me.  It was in that moment that I realized his love for me is built on the condition that I maintain my Christian beliefs.  Which I don't.  So at this point, I have to question everything; he says he loves me and wants to try and make our marriage work despite our differences, but if he can only love me on the condition that I remain a Christian, I just can't do that.  That's not love, that's....keeping me around out of obligation and pity.  And I won't be someone's pity wife.  (Especially when there's nothing to pity me for!)

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I know I've changed. As someone said earlier, I too have more of an edge to me now. That's because I now believe I have self-worth and am worth standing up for myself. bad sentence wording there but whatever. Other changes too but it's 2am and I've done my book-length posts for the day!

 

But all of these changes I've experienced have come from one thing that has never changed about me: my beliefs inform how I live.

 

I believe or don't believe because I care about truth above all else, and what I trust to be truth informs my behaviour. If I go from believing that humility and meekness are good things, to believing that I as a human am worth as much as every other human and therefore humility to the point of debasing myself or not trusting myself is wrong... well, of course my behaviour is going to change.

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