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Goodbye Jesus

Was Jesus Good?


quinntar

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Understanding what's good & evil has been something most talked about.

 

Do we know?

 

I'll say it again, was Jesus good?

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     Good for what?

 

          mwc

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Good for what?

 

mwc

Making tables and chairs.
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Good for what?

 

mwc

Making tables and chairs.

 

     I think he'd make a lousy table or chair.  He doesn't seem fit for either.

 

          mwc

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I was never a fan of George Bush, but I would sit down and have a beer and a chat with him. But Jesus? No thanks.

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Understanding what's good & evil has been something most talked about.

 

Do we know?

 

I'll say it again, was Jesus good?

Jesus would have said, "no, only God is good."

 

Oops, that Freudian slip about not being god. Eek!

 

 

Before Ironhorse charges in here to correct you TS...

 

http://christianity.stackexchange.com/questions/4658/what-does-jesus-mean-by-saying-why-do-you-call-me-good

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This question is unanswerable because we don't have any of Jesus' actual words or deeds. All we have are anonymous authors who also didn't hear or see Jesus themselves but got second or third hand accounts. Jesus has been defined by so many different people over 2000 years that he's impossible to classify as either good or bad - he is whatever you want him to be.

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Understanding what's good & evil has been something most talked about.

 

Do we know?

 

I'll say it again, was Jesus good?

Jesus would have said, "no, only God is good."

 

Oops, that Freudian slip about not being god. Eek!

Eek indeed.
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This question is unanswerable because we don't have any of Jesus' actual words or deeds. All we have are anonymous authors who also didn't hear or see Jesus themselves but got second or third hand accounts. Jesus has been defined by so many different people over 2000 years that he's impossible to classify as either good or bad - he is whatever you want him to be.

That is true, but this is a challenge for ex's to debate the view of those whom say Jesus was good.
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Define "jesus". Then define "good".

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Good for what?

 

mwc

Making tables and chairs.

I think he'd make a lousy table or chair. He doesn't seem fit for either.

 

mwc

:)
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Define "jesus". Then define "good".

Start backwards, once goodness is defined you can know if he fits. Christians define God as good, so by their definition you'd have to be God to be good.
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But what is "good"?

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Understanding what's good & evil has been something most talked about.

 

Do we know?

 

I'll say it again, was Jesus good?

 

Was my imaginary friend good? Interesting question. He was good until I felt guilty about thoughts. Then he was a pain in the butt.

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Those apologist sites are always so predictable so fascinating! No matter what, they always find a way! It may require turning "No" into "Yes" and a whole bunch of mental acrobatics, but eventually, they always end up with the desired answer. Amazing innit?

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But what is "good"?

I think good is just a feeling, a feeling that tells your mind "Everything is fine." Telling you when your system is working normal.
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Understanding what's good & evil has been something most talked about.

 

Do we know?

 

I'll say it again, was Jesus good?

Was my imaginary friend good? Interesting question. He was good until I felt guilty about thoughts. Then he was a pain in the butt.

He sure is.

This imaginary friend.

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Christians love the idea of the trinity, but then see Jesus as some loving, cool BFF.  If the trinity is true, then Jesus is the one that drowned all the kittens and pregnant moms and little children in Noah's flood.

 

Jesus is the one that blazed a trail through the Old Testament pushing genocide, sex slavery, slashing open even the bellies of pregnant women during wars and raids and attacks that he ordered. 

 

Jesus is the one that gave Moses the law on Mount Sinai, and then stood by when Moses found the Israelites worshipping a golden calf and killed them off, when at the time the the law about having other gods before him hadn't been given (and judging by the A&E debate going on in the other thread it's his MO to punish people for what they didn't know).

 

Jesus is the one that turned Lot's wife into a pillar of salt for what was apparently a minor infraction (looking back while her town burned as she and her family fled the scene), but sends lying spirits (that he created) to deceive people.

 

In the New Testament, it's Jesus that lies to his brothers in John 7:8-10, tells us to sell our coats so we can buy swords, and admits he came to set families at odds with each other. 

 

There's an entire sh*tload of evil, bad, deceptive and mean things Jesus did that go against his own laws. Breaking the Sabbath, being wrong about his return and who would see it, and promising death and destruction to most of the planet when he comes back and there's more beside those examples.

 

I pulled all of this off the top of my head, and some of these things may be explained away by a clever apologist, but not all of them.

 

Jesus is not, in my opinion, "good" by his own definition, which would also include holiness and honesty, promoting life and not death, and not having lying lips and a deceiving tongue. 

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Well I think Jesus was good at one thing. Hurting generations of people.

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If he existed, he was a run of the mill cult leader who used guilt and promise of made up future reward to keep his followers in line. That makes him an asshole in my book. 

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Guest Furball

 

If he existed, he was a run of the mill cult leader who used guilt and promise of made up future reward to keep his followers in line. That makes him an asshole in my book.

His ethics are still profoundly impactful on our society, that love is the chief commandment was revolutionary.

 

To say he was just run of the mill, is not what I would call accurate.

 

Actually I would call your response to Vigile "not accurate." Jesus' "chief commandment to love" was not revolutionary. The golden rule itself is found in numerous scriptures that predate jesus by thousands of years. Infact most of the so called "moral" precepts jesus spoke can be found as well in earlier scriptures such as the bhagavad gita or the religion of jainism. The statement in the new testament that no man ever spoke like jesus is a bold faced lie. People who are not educated tend to think like you do, yet when one takes the hours to do the footwork of studying the older religions, jesus is just another run-of-the-mill copycat that didn't say anything new. I highly recommend you put in the effort to study earlier religions to see just how big of a fake jesus really is. I would start off with sam harris' Letter to a Christian Nation, then work my way back through all the earliest scriptures we have on record from india. You'll be surprised just how wrong you are about jesus and his commandments being "revolutionary." As far as his ethics go, I recommend you re-read the new testament as jesus himself admitted he came to set people against each other, that if people didn't believe in him and obey EVERY command, they would be sent to hell for ever, just to name a few of the scores of other harsh words he spoke. He is hardly the model of ethics. Historical facts and countless scriptures that predate jesus and the bible proves your response to Vigile to be embarrassingly inaccurate. Please educate yourself on the subject a lot better next time. 

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Guest Furball

1.Sometimes I feel like Ex-Christians become a bit too biased in their criticism of Christianity.

 

2.It's possible to see praiseworthy aspects while also recognizing that it is nonsense which has not metaphysical basis in reality.

 

1. Are you serious with this crap? Have you never read a single ex-c testimony on here or read the thousands of posts as to why "ex-christians" speak and feel the way they do about christianity? 

 

2. What is praiseworthy about a god who verbally and psychologically abuses his followers? What is praiseworthy about being sent to hell for ever for masturbating or sleeping in on a sunday? 

 

You have obviously never been a christian, nor a victim of it's indoctrination, otherwise you wouldn't have made such a cosmically stupid assessment of us "biased" ex-c's. 

 

UN-F'N-BELIEVABLE!

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There is nothing profound about Jesus. The character is pure hype. The religion that has adopted him as a symbol has clearly had an impact on history; much of it horrendously detrimental. Literature is rife with works far more important and that have much greater depth than the bible. 

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While I can understand furball's point of view and sympathize with her anger, I also agree with TrueScotsman: there's a tendency here on ex-C to paint everything related to Christianity (and religion in general) with a very wide brush, disregarding the fact that Christianity is far from a monolithic and homogenous religion, but rather a very varied phenomenon.

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Guest Furball

 

If he existed, he was a run of the mill cult leader who used guilt and promise of made up future reward to keep his followers in line. That makes him an asshole in my book.

His ethics are still profoundly impactful on our society

Oh really, is that why christianity is the top religion of prisoners around the world today?

 

Apparently christian ethics lead people to jail and prison: which is ok for TrueScotsman! 

 

prison-population-religious-affiliation.

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