Was Jesus Good?

[duderonomy]

Well I for one am damn glad that TS is here. He's going to get all of our forums and us corrected and sorted out in short order.  I mean, I didn't realize how snobbish, stuck a decade back, uninformed, mis-informed, and ill-opinionated we all are until he showed up.

[Guest]

Well I for one am damn glad that TS is here. He's going to get all of our forums and us corrected and sorted out in short order.  I mean, I didn't realize how snobbish, stuck a decade back, uninformed, mis-informed, and ill-opinionated we all are until he showed up.

What a substantial response to the ideas and arguments I have put forward, thanks for the contribution to the discussion dude.

[rjn]

 

Well I for one am damn glad that TS is here. He's going to get all of our forums and us corrected and sorted out in short order.  I mean, I didn't realize how snobbish, stuck a decade back, uninformed, mis-informed, and ill-opinionated we all are until he showed up.

What a substantial response to the ideas and arguments I have put forward, thanks for the contribution to the discussion dude.

 

 

I second that TS.

 

Dude: TS has written several extensive as well as exhaustive posts, and all you do is retort to ad hominem because you do not agree? I tend to appreciate what you write, but seriously, weak dude, really weak.

[TABA]

I haven't been following this thread closely, nor do I have time or interest to start doing so, but I have to say this, and I mean it with all due respect: TS does tend to exude a certain air of superiority. TS has had a lot of intelligent and worthwhile things to say in the few months since I've been an active member here. I've benefited from his advice on occasion. Even if I am right about everything though, if I come across as condescending it will undo much of the goodwill I may have earned. A little humility will carry you a long way in life. TS, I hope you will take my comments in the friendly and sincere spirit in which they are intended.

[duderonomy]

 

 

Well I for one am damn glad that TS is here. He's going to get all of our forums and us corrected and sorted out in short order.  I mean, I didn't realize how snobbish, stuck a decade back, uninformed, mis-informed, and ill-opinionated we all are until he showed up.

What a substantial response to the ideas and arguments I have put forward, thanks for the contribution to the discussion dude.

 

 

I second that TS.

 

Dude: TS has written several extensive as well as exhaustive posts, and all you do is retort to ad hominem because you do not agree? I tend to appreciate what you write, but seriously, weak dude, really weak.

 

 

I'm glad you tend to appreciate what I write RJN, and I feel the same about you.  I don't think what I said was all that weak.  It was sarcasm, of course, but I said it because of all of the ad-hominems TS has thrown out against almost every poster here in his arrogant condescending way. I can put up with his overly worded pontifications by ignoring them, but there's no need for his attitude coming out in almost every post he makes if he doesn't want some of the same coming back at him once in awhile.

 

It's not about agreeing or disagreeing with what he says, it's his look-down-his-nose-I'm-intellectually- better-than-you-and-you-and-you-bit that gets old. If he's half as smart as he thinks he is, he'll realize that soon, I hope. I admire his intellect, it's his smarts I'm in doubt of.

[Guest]

 

 

 

Well I for one am damn glad that TS is here. He's going to get all of our forums and us corrected and sorted out in short order.  I mean, I didn't realize how snobbish, stuck a decade back, uninformed, mis-informed, and ill-opinionated we all are until he showed up.

 

What a substantial response to the ideas and arguments I have put forward, thanks for the contribution to the discussion dude.

 

I second that TS.

 

Dude: TS has written several extensive as well as exhaustive posts, and all you do is retort to ad hominem because you do not agree? I tend to appreciate what you write, but seriously, weak dude, really weak.

 

I'm glad you tend to appreciate what I write RJN, and I feel the same about you.  I don't think what I said was all that weak.  It was sarcasm, of course, but I said it because of all of the ad-hominems TS has thrown out against almost every poster here in his arrogant condescending way. I can put up with his overly worded pontifications by ignoring them, but there's no need for his attitude coming out in almost every post he makes if he doesn't want some of the same coming back at him once in awhile.

 

It's not about agreeing or disagreeing with what he says, it's his look-down-his-nose-I'm-intellectually- better-than-you-and-you-and-you-bit that gets old. If he's half as smart as he thinks he is, he'll realize that soon, I hope. I admire his intellect, it's his smarts I'm in doubt of.

This forum to me is a functional outlet, which isn't to belittle its meaning simply because it serves a function. I find talking about religion is helpful to realize why I left all that, but also my new thoughts need to be expressed. I guess some would say, "will go find a journal you verbose mother fucker," and I could say... "Fair point!"

 

At the same time, I think me sometimes more complicated thoughts that I have had (oh god alluded to complicated), are interesting I think, and warrant further consideration and contemplation rather than equivocating my "pontificating" to sociopathic belligerence of philosophic ideas. (Yes that was on purpose)

 

Right now the policy seems to be, "fuck off, we don't want to see those words typed, and those ideas shared." If you're not interested in understanding me, then why are even responding to my posts. Otherwise, ask, "hey say that another way, you're using too much internal jargon." And I'd share an example which illustrates what I am saying. And I am trying to do that more.

 

It just seems there exists a bias and a dislike of me as being some arrogant condescending dissenter.

[Guest]

I haven't been following this thread closely, nor do I have time or interest to start doing so, but I have to say this, and I mean it with all due respect: TS does tend to exude a certain air of superiority. TS has had a lot of intelligent and worthwhile things to say in the few months since I've been an active member here. I've benefited from his advice on occasion. Even if I am right about everything though, if I come across as condescending it will undo much of the goodwill I may have earned. A little humility will carry you a long way in life. TS, I hope you will take my comments in the friendly and sincere spirit in which they are intended.

I mean this will all sincerity as well, that I am just expressing myself with no malice or condescension intended, and apologize if such and feeling was conveyed. I don't aspire to greatness or particularly tremendous regard. In fact, I'm actively in counseling for the depression I have carried since my parents shattering divorce three years ago. Sometimes in my introspection, I go too far into these little intellectual world's and fail to recognize how one needs to make ideas communicable to the general audience.

 

I could improve on that, and do try to improve on that. There's likely some unconscious baggage I'm carrying with some of the ideas I'm sharing, but that isn't a basis to dismiss me categorically. So realize, I'm a fellow sojourner who had gone through some rough shit, and is sharing some complex ideas about how I now look at the world.

[Margee]

 

I haven't been following this thread closely, nor do I have time or interest to start doing so, but I have to say this, and I mean it with all due respect: TS does tend to exude a certain air of superiority. TS has had a lot of intelligent and worthwhile things to say in the few months since I've been an active member here. I've benefited from his advice on occasion. Even if I am right about everything though, if I come across as condescending it will undo much of the goodwill I may have earned. A little humility will carry you a long way in life. TS, I hope you will take my comments in the friendly and sincere spirit in which they are intended.

I mean this will all sincerity as well, that I am just expressing myself with no malice or condescension intended, and apologize if such and feeling was conveyed. I don't aspire to greatness or particularly tremendous regard. In fact, I'm actively in counseling for the depression I have carried since my parents shattering divorce three years ago. Sometimes in my introspection, I go too far into these little intellectual world's and fail to recognize how one needs to make ideas communicable to the general audience.

 

I could improve on that, and do try to improve on that. There's likely some unconscious baggage I'm carrying with some of the ideas I'm sharing, but that isn't a basis to dismiss me categorically. So realize, I'm a fellow sojourner who had gone through some rough shit, and is sharing some complex ideas about how I now look at the world.

 

And I give you a (hug) for this TS. Sorry you are going through this issue. It's sad. I went through it also.

 

Sincerely, Margee

[midniterider]

"Jesus" is a character in a mythical tale about Jews murdering their own messiah so that Gentiles could justify their theft of Jewish holy books. 

 

The question is moot. It's like asking if Robinson Crusoe or Don Quixote was good. 

 

I was gonna use Spiderman, but those work too.

[duderonomy]

 

 

 

 

Well I for one am damn glad that TS is here. He's going to get all of our forums and us corrected and sorted out in short order.  I mean, I didn't realize how snobbish, stuck a decade back, uninformed, mis-informed, and ill-opinionated we all are until he showed up.

What a substantial response to the ideas and arguments I have put forward, thanks for the contribution to the discussion dude.

 

I second that TS.

 

Dude: TS has written several extensive as well as exhaustive posts, and all you do is retort to ad hominem because you do not agree? I tend to appreciate what you write, but seriously, weak dude, really weak.

 

I'm glad you tend to appreciate what I write RJN, and I feel the same about you.  I don't think what I said was all that weak.  It was sarcasm, of course, but I said it because of all of the ad-hominems TS has thrown out against almost every poster here in his arrogant condescending way. I can put up with his overly worded pontifications by ignoring them, but there's no need for his attitude coming out in almost every post he makes if he doesn't want some of the same coming back at him once in awhile.

 

It's not about agreeing or disagreeing with what he says, it's his look-down-his-nose-I'm-intellectually- better-than-you-and-you-and-you-bit that gets old. If he's half as smart as he thinks he is, he'll realize that soon, I hope. I admire his intellect, it's his smarts I'm in doubt of.

This forum to me is a functional outlet, which isn't to belittle its meaning simply because it serves a function. I find talking about religion is helpful to realize why I left all that, but also my new thoughts need to be expressed. I guess some would say, "will go find a journal you verbose mother fucker," and I could say... "Fair point!"

 

At the same time, I think me sometimes more complicated thoughts that I have had (oh god alluded to complicated), are interesting I think, and warrant further consideration and contemplation rather than equivocating my "pontificating" to sociopathic belligerence of philosophic ideas. (Yes that was on purpose)

 

Right now the policy seems to be, "fuck off, we don't want to see those words typed, and those ideas shared." If you're not interested in understanding me, then why are even responding to my posts. Otherwise, ask, "hey say that another way, you're using too much internal jargon." And I'd share an example which illustrates what I am saying. And I am trying to do that more.

 

It just seems there exists a bias and a dislike of me as being some arrogant condescending dissenter.

 

 

You know TS, a long time ago when I first came to Ex-C, I was angry and I drank a lot. I had to apologise a lot for the things I said, even though the core of why I said them hasn't changed to this day.

I left the forum for a while, and when I came back I was sober and quite a long way farther down the road. I still had trouble expressing myself. A lot of times I had to walk back things I said and try to be more clear. I admitted that here in a few posts so long ago. I also had to remind everyone that I liked to eat my crow with a side of mashed potatoes a couple of times.

 

No one dislikes you. Not even me. You have come off as arrogant and condescending sometimes, but what the Hell (yes, I capitalized it you verbose pontificator. What do you think too much about that?) it's hard to put in type what might make all of the sense in the world with face to face words, gestures, body language and facial expressions and have it come across the same.

 

So you know what? For my part, despite our clashes in ToT (which if I remember correctly mostly involved the same issues although different topics) and here, I'm willing to say let bygones be bygones, like so much water under the bridge. We'd make better allies than enemies. 

 

Now what's this about you being a "verbose mother fucker"? I would never call you a mother fucker. I might point out though that sometimes one has to eat an elephant one bite at a time, and without bitching at the elephant because it's too tough and you might not be able to finish it all.

 

[Guest]

 

 

 

 

 

Well I for one am damn glad that TS is here. He's going to get all of our forums and us corrected and sorted out in short order.  I mean, I didn't realize how snobbish, stuck a decade back, uninformed, mis-informed, and ill-opinionated we all are until he showed up.

 

What a substantial response to the ideas and arguments I have put forward, thanks for the contribution to the discussion dude.

 

I second that TS.

 

Dude: TS has written several extensive as well as exhaustive posts, and all you do is retort to ad hominem because you do not agree? I tend to appreciate what you write, but seriously, weak dude, really weak.

 

I'm glad you tend to appreciate what I write RJN, and I feel the same about you.  I don't think what I said was all that weak.  It was sarcasm, of course, but I said it because of all of the ad-hominems TS has thrown out against almost every poster here in his arrogant condescending way. I can put up with his overly worded pontifications by ignoring them, but there's no need for his attitude coming out in almost every post he makes if he doesn't want some of the same coming back at him once in awhile.

 

It's not about agreeing or disagreeing with what he says, it's his look-down-his-nose-I'm-intellectually- better-than-you-and-you-and-you-bit that gets old. If he's half as smart as he thinks he is, he'll realize that soon, I hope. I admire his intellect, it's his smarts I'm in doubt of.

This forum to me is a functional outlet, which isn't to belittle its meaning simply because it serves a function. I find talking about religion is helpful to realize why I left all that, but also my new thoughts need to be expressed. I guess some would say, "will go find a journal you verbose mother fucker," and I could say... "Fair point!"

At the same time, I think me sometimes more complicated thoughts that I have had (oh god alluded to complicated), are interesting I think, and warrant further consideration and contemplation rather than equivocating my "pontificating" to sociopathic belligerence of philosophic ideas. (Yes that was on purpose)

Right now the policy seems to be, "fuck off, we don't want to see those words typed, and those ideas shared." If you're not interested in understanding me, then why are even responding to my posts. Otherwise, ask, "hey say that another way, you're using too much internal jargon." And I'd share an example which illustrates what I am saying. And I am trying to do that more.

It just seems there exists a bias and a dislike of me as being some arrogant condescending dissenter.

 

You know TS, a long time ago when I first came to Ex-C, I was angry and I drank a lot. I had to apologise a lot for the things I said, even though the core of why I said them hasn't changed to this day.

I left the forum for a while, and when I came back I was sober and quite a long way farther down the road. I still had trouble expressing myself. A lot of times I had to walk back things I said and try to be more clear. I admitted that here in a few posts so long ago. I also had to remind everyone that I liked to eat my crow with a side of mashed potatoes a couple of times.

 

No one dislikes you. Not even me. You have come off as arrogant and condescending sometimes, but what the Hell (yes, I capitalized it you verbose pontificator. What do you think too much about that?) it's hard to put in type what might make all of the sense in the world with face to face words, gestures, body language and facial expressions and have it come across the same.

 

So you know what? For my part, despite our clashes in ToT (which if I remember correctly mostly involved the same issues although different topics) and here, I'm willing to say let bygones be bygones, like so much water under the bridge. We'd make better allies than enemies. 

 

Now what's this about you being a "verbose mother fucker"? I would never call you a mother fucker. I might point out though that sometimes one has to eat an elephant one bite at a time, and without bitching at the elephant because it's too tough and you might not be able to finish it all.

 

Solid remarks dude, we would and I think do make better allies, we have far more in common.

[quinntar]

So I'd like to get back on topic.

 

As I pointed out, this thread is about debating the Christian view that Jesus was good.

 

But was Jesus really good?

[pratt]

no

[quinntar]

no

Simple enough, I like simple.

[duderonomy]

 

no

Simple enough, I like simple.

 

 

I told you this thread would be good.

[quinntar]

 

 

no

Simple enough, I like simple.

I told you this thread would be good.

Yeah you were spot on, I'm going to get another pie and wait for more posts.

[Guest Furball]

 

 

 

 

Well I for one am damn glad that TS is here. He's going to get all of our forums and us corrected and sorted out in short order.  I mean, I didn't realize how snobbish, stuck a decade back, uninformed, mis-informed, and ill-opinionated we all are until he showed up.

What a substantial response to the ideas and arguments I have put forward, thanks for the contribution to the discussion dude.

 

I second that TS.

 

Dude: TS has written several extensive as well as exhaustive posts, and all you do is retort to ad hominem because you do not agree? I tend to appreciate what you write, but seriously, weak dude, really weak.

 

I'm glad you tend to appreciate what I write RJN, and I feel the same about you.  I don't think what I said was all that weak.  It was sarcasm, of course, but I said it because of all of the ad-hominems TS has thrown out against almost every poster here in his arrogant condescending way. I can put up with his overly worded pontifications by ignoring them, but there's no need for his attitude coming out in almost every post he makes if he doesn't want some of the same coming back at him once in awhile.

 

It's not about agreeing or disagreeing with what he says, it's his look-down-his-nose-I'm-intellectually- better-than-you-and-you-and-you-bit that gets old. If he's half as smart as he thinks he is, he'll realize that soon, I hope. I admire his intellect, it's his smarts I'm in doubt of.

This forum to me is a functional outlet, which isn't to belittle its meaning simply because it serves a function. I find talking about religion is helpful to realize why I left all that, but also my new thoughts need to be expressed. I guess some would say, "will go find a journal you verbose mother fucker," and I could say... "Fair point!"

 

 

 

You do know that you have a blogging option attached to your account? Why not blog how you are really feeling and let people respond there?

[Guest]

How about I write as I please, so long as I am allowed to within the TOS.  Am I dictating to you, what and where you should be writing?

 

I'm just presenting my own views, thoughts and arguments.  You're welcome to disagree.

[Guest Furball]

How about I write as I please, so long as I am allowed to within the TOS.  Am I dictating to you, what and where you should be writing?

 

I'm just presenting my own views, thoughts and arguments.  You're welcome to disagree.

Funny...that's what everyone else has been doing and you've been shitting all over us. 

 

Oh, and the blogging was just a suggestion. I was trying to be nice and helpful. But thanks for proving me right that you're an uneducated bigot.

 

Peace

[quinntar]

How about I write as I please, so long as I am allowed to within the TOS. Am I dictating to you, what and where you should be writing?

 

I'm just presenting my own views, thoughts and arguments. You're welcome to disagree.

Well you can do that here. Why don't you post about why you feel Jesus was good.

[Guest]

Where did I say, "Jesus was good?" 

 

I might have reservations about the ways people argue against Christianity here, but I in NO WAY support Christianity or Christian doctrine.  Jesus had a lot of interesting things to say which can be understood and appreciated without the metaphysical bullshit, but it's not even necessary to cite these ethics as being from Jesus since they predate him when looking at the holistic picture of ancient history.

 

Jesus essentially CHANGED what was good within the Roman world, which formally had pagan values that favored the master, while Christianity emphasized values which favored the poor and the slave within society (though without promising freedom to any such slaves).  I recommend, reading On the Genealogy of Good and Evil from Friedrich Nietzsche to understand the Master and Slave morality narrative which I think is in some ways helpful.

[rjn]

TS: To be fair, there's nothing that implies that similar ideas couldn't have taken root in pagan philosophy and religion. "Pagan" is an extremely vague term and in the context of Ancient Rome and Levant meant everything non-Jewish.

[Guest]

That's true, it could have arisen in pagan society and perhaps did.  The fact of the matter is that Jesus' movement is distinct within history, because of its popularity, historical and geographical context.

 

Standard Roman Paganism (if such can be said), certainly had values which were incompatible with 1st Century Christian ethics and values.

[Blood]

There was no religion called "paganism" in the ancient world. 

[Guest]

Thanks Blood, for that critical piece of information.