L.i.g.o. Detects Gravitational Waves...again.

[bornagainathiest]

http://news.mit.edu/2016/second-time-ligo-detects-gravitational-waves-0615

 

Or just Google "LIGO"...it's all over the science websites.

 

Thanks,

 

BAA.

[Thurisaz]

Science!

[pantheory]

This is good news in that any that might have had doubts about the first observation, will likely have to look for something else to question

 

The idea and theory that these observations are the result of two black-hole type entities merging is a good one, however it is still not the only possible explanation for these observations so it should not be a complete surprise if other explanations might arise concerning these or future detections.

[TheLyniezian]

This is great news for science, and am I assuming it proves generaly relativity actually over alternative theories/fomulations?

 

However, why does it get so little media attention over nasty political wranglings and celebrity gossip?

[Thurisaz]

Because the latter doesn't demand much brain activity on the audience side and is thus much more profitable. Don't want the sheeple to start using their brains do they? The herd may realize that the media are just babbling bullshit...

[bornagainathiest]

This is great news for science, and am I assuming it proves generaly relativity actually over alternative theories/fomulations?

 

However, why does it get so little media attention over nasty political wranglings and celebrity gossip?

 

Hi Lyniezian!

 

I can't answer you second question, but I'll take a stab at the first by echoing and (conditionally) agreeing with Pantheory's point.

Alternative explanations for what we observe should always be explored, because the science of investigating the natural universe is always considered to be tentative and not final.  So, nothing is ever finally 'proved' in physics or chemistry or biology, because there's always room for a better explanation.  Instead, when a particular theory's predictions are independently and repeatedly confirmed to a high enough level of precision and when no rival theory can match these results - that theory is generally accepted within scientific circles as being the currently-ruling paradigm.  'Currently' is the key word here.  That's because a better theory, that better describes and better explains what we observe is always possible.  

 

Now for the condition.

Which begins with a question.  "At what point should one stop rejecting a ruling paradigm and accept that it is the current, best explanation for what we observe?"  I'm sorry Lyniezian, but I just don't know the answer and I strongly suspect that there is no singular answer.  In my view this is a personal matter which each of us have to make their own minds up about.  Where two people disagree, they should (imho) respect each other and respectfully agree to politely disagree with one another.  

 

So the condition I set upon my agreement with Pantheory can be summed up like this.

I agree that alternative explanations for what we observe must be explored.  But there is a difference between doing this for the sake of testing the ruling paradigm and doing it because that ruling paradigm can never be accepted.  The position of inflexible rejection of a theory plays no part in the discipline of science.  If a person will never accept a certain theory, no matter how well supported it is by the data, then as far as I'm concerned they are exhibiting an unacceptable personal bias.  Sadly, we saw just this kind of biased rejection in the debate between Bill Nye (the Science Guy) and the Young Earth Creationist and Biblical-Literalist Christian, Ken Ham.

 

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Bill_Nye_debates_Ken_Ham

 

Near the end of the debate, at the end of the Q&A session, the question "What would change your mind" was asked of both by a The Thinking Atheist community member. Ken Ham stated outright that he would never change his mind, while Bill Nye said all it would take to change his mind was one piece of evidence. This should really tell you everything you need to know about Creationism and single handedly gave Bill the win.

 

Thanks,

 

BAA.

[pantheory]

double posting deleted

[pantheory]

This is great news for science, and am I assuming it proves generally relativity actually over alternative theories/ formulations?

 

However, why does it .............................................................

 

Yes this is great news for science. In retrospect many theories have predicted gravity waves, mainly all past aether theories that I know of. General Relativity has been very successful in making predictions at solar system sized scales. It does not work by itself at larger scales like galactic scales, galaxy clusters, or the universe as a whole, unless the dark matter hypothesis is also valid. But still problems remain.

 

It should be realized that gravity waves are not related to the cause or source of gravity but instead are the result of gravitational interactions.

 

Theoretical gravity waves propose that gravitational energy radiates away from its source of creation. They are believed to be emitted when a massive body(s) accelerate through a liquid or fluid medium through the effects of gravity.

 

The possibility of gravitational waves was first discussed in the mid 1800's by several theorists at the time. The first formal paper and prediction of gravity waves is credited to Oliver Heaviside in 1893 by using the analogy between the inverse-square law of gravity and electricity. The basis of his prediction was the assumption of a background aether of some type that was gravity centered in which the gravity waves of aether would be moving through an omnipresent aether.

 

In 1916 Einstein added his voice concerning gravity waves in space based upon his theory of General Relativity, predicting that gravity waves in space are ripples in the curvature of spacetime that propagate as waves, generated in certain large gravitational interactions and traveling outward from their source.

 

https://en.wikipedia...ki/Gravity_wave

https://en.wikipedia...vitational_wave

[bornagainathiest]

Ok, I'll cut to the chase with just one question, Pantheory.

 

Will you ever accept Einstein's theory of General Relativity as being the current best explanation and description of gravitation..?

[pantheory]

Ok, I'll cut to the chase with just one question, Pantheory.

 

Will you ever accept Einstein's theory of General Relativity as being the current best explanation and description of gravitation..?

 

Einstein's formulations of General Relativity (GR) have been successful now for 100 years concerning solar system sized venues and smaller.  It has proven itself time and again to make the best predictions in this domain compared to any other gravity model.

 

I think it would be good if one realized, however, that GR does not work concerning larger scales without the inclusion of dark matter which remains an unproven hypothesis. Even if the dark matter proposal could be proven valid, GR's assertion that space bends or warps has never been proven. To the contrary all observations indicate that the whole of the observable universe seems to be flat. And even with the inclusion of the dark matter hypothesis, GR still produces many unresolved problems.

 

First to accept GR at the scale of galaxies and at the largest scales of the universe, for me dark matter would have to be proven to my satisfaction, and then I would hope they could find unambiguous evidence that space bends, warps, expands, or does anything at all. 

 

I also don't like the theoretical complications that GR creates concerning the universe as a whole, but expect I would learn to live with it if the other problems were resolved to my satisfaction.

 

I have much respect for Einstein personally and regardless of the outcome would like to see at least some aspects of his theories remain in physics forever.

 

But as you know this is only my opinion -- most mainstream theorists think otherwise.

[bornagainathiest]

 

Ok, I'll cut to the chase with just one question, Pantheory.

 

Will you ever accept Einstein's theory of General Relativity as being the current best explanation and description of gravitation..?

 

Einstein's formulations of General Relativity (GR) have been successful now for 100 years concerning solar system sized venues and smaller.  It has proven itself time and again to make the best predictions in this domain compared to any other gravity model.

 

I think it would be good if one realized, however, that GR does not work concerning larger scales without the inclusion of dark matter which remains an unproven hypothesis. Even if the dark matter proposal could be proven valid, GR's assertion that space bends or warps has never been proven. To the contrary all observations indicate that the whole of the observable universe seems to be flat. And even with the inclusion of the dark matter hypothesis, GR still produces many unresolved problems.

 

First to accept GR at the scale of galaxies and at the largest scales of the universe, for me dark matter would have to be proven to my satisfaction, and then I would hope they could find unambiguous evidence that space bends, warps, expands, or does anything at all. 

 

I also don't like the theoretical complications that GR creates concerning the universe as a whole, but expect I would learn to live with it if the other problems were resolved to my satisfaction.

 

I have much respect for Einstein personally and regardless of the outcome would like to see at least some aspects of his theories remain in physics forever.

 

But as you know this is only my opinion -- most mainstream theorists think otherwise.

 

 

Please cut to the chase too Pantheory and reply to my brief and concise question with an equally brief and concise answer.

 

One line is all you should need and the fewer the words, the better.

 

If you were to ask me this question, I could answer it in one line.

 

Please try to match me.

 

Thanks,

 

BAA.

[qadeshet]

bornagainatheist, thanks for posting this. I can show that the Universe is Billions of years old; in less than 5 min. Would that help? Cheers!

 

Know Thyself

 

http://news.mit.edu/2016/second-time-ligo-detects-gravitational-waves-0615

 

Or just Google "LIGO"...it's all over the science websites.

 

Thanks,

 

BAA.

[qadeshet]

I put it on the "To Our Guests" Thread. It takes about 5 min to read. Cheers!

 

Laconic Phrases

 

In the Korean War, after U.N. forces under American command were attacked by Chinese forces in the Battle of Chosin Reservoir, U.S. commander Chesty Puller made the remark, "We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things."^[56] He also reportedly said, "Great. Now we can shoot at those bastards from every direction."

 

 

bornagainatheist, thanks for posting this. I can show that the Universe is Billions of years old; in less than 5 min. Would that help? Cheers!

 

Know Thyself

 

http://news.mit.edu/2016/second-time-ligo-detects-gravitational-waves-0615

 

Or just Google "LIGO"...it's all over the science websites.

 

Thanks,

 

BAA.