"testimonials"

[quinntar]

Christians,

 

If you consider your testimonies to be a valid form of proof, then why not ours.

[ironhorse]

I consider my testimony I posted to give evidence (proof) as to why I hold my view of Christianity.

 

And I consider the testimonials I have read from ex-christians and others as their personal stories the same way. I have read most of the 106 pages of the pinned Testimonies of Former Christians.

 

And I have read a lot of truth in them. Truth that what I consider “Bad Christianity” has caused them a lot pain and disappointment. It has twisted and hijacked scripture to indoctrinate and control people.

 

I can see why they left Christianity.

[Guest]

I consider my testimony I posted to give evidence (proof) as to why I hold my view of Christianity.

 

And I consider the testimonials I have read from ex-christians and others as their personal stories the same way. I have read most of the 106 pages of the pinned Testimonies of Former Christians.

 

And I have read a lot of truth in them. Truth that what I consider “Bad Christianity” has caused them a lot pain and disappointment. It has twisted and hijacked scripture to indoctrinate and control people.

 

I can see why they left Christianity.

Not all of us came out of "bad Christianity," such as myself for instance where I not only had a rich knowledge of Scripture, but was very aware of what other Christians in a historical and contemporary way, believed about the text. More importantly though, I believed I had a genuine relationship with Jesus, wherein I would sit by the river and poor out my heart to Jesus.

 

So what do you call "good Christianity," listing some of the characteristics. Also, what is your position on if some people here may have actually believed "good Christianity?"

[Margee]

I consider my testimony I posted to give evidence (proof) as to why I hold my view of Christianity.

 

And I consider the testimonials I have read from ex-christians and others as their personal stories the same way. I have read most of the 106 pages of the pinned Testimonies of Former Christians.

 

And I have read a lot of truth in them. Truth that what I consider “Bad Christianity” has caused them a lot pain and disappointment. It has twisted and hijacked scripture to indoctrinate and control people.

 

I can see why they left Christianity.

 

 

IH, is your god Omnipotent, Omnipresent and Omniscient? He cannot be if you have truly read my testimony?

 http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/44259-please-forgive-me/page-1#.V2Ps4bsrKUk

 

[ironhorse]

 

I consider my testimony I posted to give evidence (proof) as to why I hold my view of Christianity.

 

And I consider the testimonials I have read from ex-christians and others as their personal stories the same way. I have read most of the 106 pages of the pinned Testimonies of Former Christians.

 

And I have read a lot of truth in them. Truth that what I consider “Bad Christianity” has caused them a lot pain and disappointment. It has twisted and hijacked scripture to indoctrinate and control people.

 

I can see why they left Christianity.

Not all of us came out of "bad Christianity," such as myself for instance where I not only had a rich knowledge of Scripture, but was very aware of what other Christians in a historical and contemporary way, believed about the text. More importantly though, I believed I had a genuine relationship with Jesus, wherein I would sit by the river and poor out my heart to Jesus.

 

So what do you call "good Christianity," listing some of the characteristics. Also, what is your position on if some people here may have actually believed "good Christianity?"

 

 

 

TrueScotsman, note I said, ex-christians and others.

 

I guess I did not clarify what I meant by others. You are right, it does not have to be only"bad Christianity"

that causes people to leave. 

 

I have read your testimonials. 

[florduh]

Every Christian who comes here to tout his faith makes the same faulty assumption; most people would remain Christians if only they were in a True Church with Good Christians. Those who leave the faith never experienced "correct" Christianity. Of course each has his idea of what is "correct" and who truly represents Jesus.

 

I left a good church with good people and a smart, educated, compassionate pastor. As I was studying the Bible at Moody I came to realize that the theology doesn't hold up. The Bible, sole basis for the religion, doesn't hold up to scrutiny. Accepting Christianity was an emotional decision, leaving it was an intellectual one. There just came a point where it was impossible for me to continue driving the round peg into the square hole.

 

Many people do leave because of a particular congregation, pastor or church policies. To me, that is not a good reason. We can't judge such a diverse religion as Christianity by the individuals who happen to claim the name. I think the only valid reason to accept or reject the theology is through examination of its origins and comparing it with history, science and reality in general.

[Geezer]

I left for basically one reason. I researched both the Bible & Xianity from the historical critical perspective & found sufficient evidence that convinced me beyond a reasonable doubt that both the Bible & Xianity are not literally or historically true. Both are man made & are based on ancient myths. Believing in & Worshipping myths is foolishness.

[ironhorse]

 

I consider my testimony I posted to give evidence (proof) as to why I hold my view of Christianity.

 

And I consider the testimonials I have read from ex-christians and others as their personal stories the same way. I have read most of the 106 pages of the pinned Testimonies of Former Christians.

 

And I have read a lot of truth in them. Truth that what I consider “Bad Christianity” has caused them a lot pain and disappointment. It has twisted and hijacked scripture to indoctrinate and control people.

 

I can see why they left Christianity.

 

 

IH, is your god Omnipotent, Omnipresent and Omniscient? He cannot be if you have truly read my testimony?

 http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/44259-please-forgive-me/page-1#.V2Ps4bsrKUk

 

 

 

I have read your testimony. I have read it more than once.

It is beautifully written. Some of the sentiments you expressed reminded me of 

a U2 song "Wake Up Dead Man". Please don't take offense but it to me it reads like a prayer.

[Margee]

 

 

I consider my testimony I posted to give evidence (proof) as to why I hold my view of Christianity.

 

And I consider the testimonials I have read from ex-christians and others as their personal stories the same way. I have read most of the 106 pages of the pinned Testimonies of Former Christians.

 

And I have read a lot of truth in them. Truth that what I consider “Bad Christianity” has caused them a lot pain and disappointment. It has twisted and hijacked scripture to indoctrinate and control people.

 

I can see why they left Christianity.

 

 

IH, is your god Omnipotent, Omnipresent and Omniscient? He cannot be if you have truly read my testimony?

 http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/44259-please-forgive-me/page-1#.V2Ps4bsrKUk

 

 

 

I have read your testimony. I have read it more than once.

It is beautifully written. Some of the sentiments you expressed reminded me of 

a U2 song "Wake Up Dead Man". Please don't take offense but it to me it reads like a prayer.

 

It is a prayer. One last prayer to god. You didn't answer my question. That's called 'avoidance' hon.

 

.....''is your god Omnipotent, Omnipresent and Omniscient?''

[bornagainathiest]

Ironhorse wrote...

 

"I consider my testimony I posted to be evidence (proof) as to why I hold my view of Christianity."

.

.

.

Sorry Ironhorse, but the words evidence and proof are not the same and are not interchangeable.

 

Your testimony constitutes evidence, but it does not constitute proof.

 

That's because the reason/s why you hold to your particular view of Christianity cannot be proven to us by you.

 

If faith plays any part in your reasoning, then we (who have no such faith) cannot accept your reasoning.

 

And if we cannot accept your reasoning, then the reason why you believe cannot be proven to us.

[florduh]

The bottom line is that people believe because they want to believe. There is a satisfaction in having faith. Faith can be comforting and empowering. I see it all the time. Faith got my father through months of pain before his death. Faith keeps you striving on.

 

Faith is the absence of evidence by definition. We are always at an impasse on these discussion because faith is not an intellectual decision. Once you think you've seen Nessie, nobody can talk you out of that belief regardless of the proven fakery and scientific evidence to the contrary.

[ironhorse]

 

 

 

I consider my testimony I posted to give evidence (proof) as to why I hold my view of Christianity.

 

And I consider the testimonials I have read from ex-christians and others as their personal stories the same way. I have read most of the 106 pages of the pinned Testimonies of Former Christians.

 

And I have read a lot of truth in them. Truth that what I consider “Bad Christianity” has caused them a lot pain and disappointment. It has twisted and hijacked scripture to indoctrinate and control people.

 

I can see why they left Christianity.

 

 

IH, is your god Omnipotent, Omnipresent and Omniscient? He cannot be if you have truly read my testimony?

 http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/44259-please-forgive-me/page-1#.V2Ps4bsrKUk

 

 

 

I have read your testimony. I have read it more than once.

It is beautifully written. Some of the sentiments you expressed reminded me of 

a U2 song "Wake Up Dead Man". Please don't take offense but it to me it reads like a prayer.

 

It is a prayer. One last prayer to god. You didn't answer my question. That's called 'avoidance' hon.

 

.....''is your god Omnipotent, Omnipresent and Omniscient?''

 

 

 

I do believe God omnipotent.  Nothing that is possible according to God’s character and purpose is impossible.

 

I believe God is omnipresent. He is present everywhere at all times. In time, he is as ever present in June 17, 1864  as he is today in June 17, 2016.

 

I believe God omniscient. He has total knowledge. He knows all things but this does not mean he decrees all things.

[bornagainathiest]

 

 

 

 

I consider my testimony I posted to give evidence (proof) as to why I hold my view of Christianity.

 

And I consider the testimonials I have read from ex-christians and others as their personal stories the same way. I have read most of the 106 pages of the pinned Testimonies of Former Christians.

 

And I have read a lot of truth in them. Truth that what I consider “Bad Christianity” has caused them a lot pain and disappointment. It has twisted and hijacked scripture to indoctrinate and control people.

 

I can see why they left Christianity.

 

 

IH, is your god Omnipotent, Omnipresent and Omniscient? He cannot be if you have truly read my testimony?

 http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/44259-please-forgive-me/page-1#.V2Ps4bsrKUk

 

 

 

I have read your testimony. I have read it more than once.

It is beautifully written. Some of the sentiments you expressed reminded me of 

a U2 song "Wake Up Dead Man". Please don't take offense but it to me it reads like a prayer.

 

It is a prayer. One last prayer to god. You didn't answer my question. That's called 'avoidance' hon.

 

.....''is your god Omnipotent, Omnipresent and Omniscient?''

 

 

 

I do believe God omnipotent.  Nothing that is possible according to God’s character and purpose is impossible.

 

I believe God is omnipresent. He is present everywhere at all times. In time, he is as ever present in June 17, 1864  as he is today in June 17, 2016.

 

I believe God omniscient. He has total knowledge. He knows all things but this does not mean he decrees all things.

 

 

As Ficino has recently pointed out to you, Ironhorse...

 

God's omnipotence means that He decrees all things.

 

So your first and last statements contradict one another.

.

.

.

Substituting the word decree for ordain doesn't change the argument one iota, btw.

[Vigile]

Every Christian who comes here to tout his faith makes the same faulty assumption; most people would remain Christians if only they were in a True Church with Good Christians. Those who leave the faith never experienced "correct" Christianity. Of course each has his idea of what is "correct" and who truly represents Jesus.

 

 

I went through a stage like that during my deconversion. Seems to me that IH is stuck there. 

[Vigile]

 

 

 

 

I consider my testimony I posted to give evidence (proof) as to why I hold my view of Christianity.

 

And I consider the testimonials I have read from ex-christians and others as their personal stories the same way. I have read most of the 106 pages of the pinned Testimonies of Former Christians.

 

And I have read a lot of truth in them. Truth that what I consider “Bad Christianity” has caused them a lot pain and disappointment. It has twisted and hijacked scripture to indoctrinate and control people.

 

I can see why they left Christianity.

 

 

IH, is your god Omnipotent, Omnipresent and Omniscient? He cannot be if you have truly read my testimony?

 http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/44259-please-forgive-me/page-1#.V2Ps4bsrKUk

 

 

 

I have read your testimony. I have read it more than once.

It is beautifully written. Some of the sentiments you expressed reminded me of 

a U2 song "Wake Up Dead Man". Please don't take offense but it to me it reads like a prayer.

 

It is a prayer. One last prayer to god. You didn't answer my question. That's called 'avoidance' hon.

 

.....''is your god Omnipotent, Omnipresent and Omniscient?''

 

 

 

I do believe God omnipotent.  Nothing that is possible according to God’s character and purpose is impossible.

 

I believe God is omnipresent. He is present everywhere at all times. In time, he is as ever present in June 17, 1864  as he is today in June 17, 2016.

 

I believe God omniscient. He has total knowledge. He knows all things but this does not mean he decrees all things.

 

 

You paint yourself into a fine corner there. 

[Jeff]

Reads why people deconvert and thinks their mad and hurt at "bad" christianity... (facepalm)

[rjn]

And I have read a lot of truth in them. Truth that what I consider “Bad Christianity” has caused them a lot pain and disappointment. It has twisted and hijacked scripture to indoctrinate and control people.

 

I can see why they left Christianity.

 

But YOUR faith is the real deal, right?

 

 

Reads why people deconvert and thinks their mad and hurt at "bad" christianity... (facepalm)

 

I know right? I know IH is a nice dude, but that does come of as pretty arrogant, even though I'm pretty certain that was not his intention.

[quinntar]

I consider my testimony I posted to give evidence (proof) as to why I hold my view of Christianity.

 

And I consider the testimonials I have read from ex-christians and others as their personal stories the same way. I have read most of the 106 pages of the pinned Testimonies of Former Christians.

 

And I have read a lot of truth in them. Truth that what I consider “Bad Christianity” has caused them a lot pain and disappointment. It has twisted and hijacked scripture to indoctrinate and control people.

 

I can see why they left Christianity.

ironhorse, does the bible teach that Christians should use their testimonies when talking to people about God?

[quinntar]

 

 

 

 

I consider my testimony I posted to give evidence (proof) as to why I hold my view of Christianity.

 

And I consider the testimonials I have read from ex-christians and others as their personal stories the same way. I have read most of the 106 pages of the pinned Testimonies of Former Christians.

 

And I have read a lot of truth in them. Truth that what I consider “Bad Christianity” has caused them a lot pain and disappointment. It has twisted and hijacked scripture to indoctrinate and control people.

 

I can see why they left Christianity.

IH, is your god Omnipotent, Omnipresent and Omniscient? He cannot be if you have truly read my testimony?

http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/44259-please-forgive-me/page-1#.V2Ps4bsrKUk

I have read your testimony. I have read it more than once.

It is beautifully written. Some of the sentiments you expressed reminded me of

a U2 song "Wake Up Dead Man". Please don't take offense but it to me it reads like a prayer.

It is a prayer. One last prayer to god. You didn't answer my question. That's called 'avoidance' hon.

 

.....''is your god Omnipotent, Omnipresent and Omniscient?''

I do believe God omnipotent. Nothing that is possible according to God’s character and purpose is impossible.

 

I believe God is omnipresent. He is present everywhere at all times. In time, he is as ever present in June 17, 1864 as he is today in June 17, 2016.

 

I believe God omniscient. He has total knowledge. He knows all things but this does not mean he decrees all things.

Why doesn't he decree everything? Because he'd fuck up the habitat.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

Ironhorse cannot possibly have the One True Faith^TM if he drinks beer and smoked Lucky Strikes.  Your body is the goddamn temple, people!  You can't be bringing garbage into the goddamn temple!

[Margee]

What true christian religion do you have IH? How did I miss getting 'the truth'. Why wouldn't god want me to have 'the truth'? Tell us what version of christianity you study? Maybe it's not too late for me? For us here? Share it with us please.

[quinntar]

Ironhorse cannot possibly have the One True Faith^TM if he drinks beer and smoked Lucky Strikes. Your body is the goddamn temple, people! You can't be bringing garbage into the goddamn temple!

If I recall that's one of the teaching's said by the new testament writers that's not said by Jesus.

 

So if ironhorse wants to drink and smoke then goddammit let him drink and smoke. As the bible says, and I quote

 

"It is better for a man to have loved and lost, than to have never loved at all."

[quinntar]

What true christian religion do you have IH? How did I miss getting 'the truth'. Why wouldn't god want me to have 'the truth'? Tell us what version of christianity you study? Maybe it's not too late for me? For us here? Share it with us please.

Don't antagonize the guy, it will only make him stronger and...

 

Probably greener.

[bornagainathiest]

 

 

 

 

 

 

I do believe God omnipotent.  Nothing that is possible according to God’s character and purpose is impossible.

 

I believe God is omnipresent. He is present everywhere at all times. In time, he is as ever present in June 17, 1864  as he is today in June 17, 2016.

 

I believe God omniscient. He has total knowledge. He knows all things but this does not mean he decrees all things.

 

 

As Ficino has recently pointed out to you, Ironhorse...

 

God's omnipotence means that He decrees all things.

 

So your first and last statements contradict one another.

.

.

.

Substituting the word decree for ordain doesn't change the argument one iota, btw.

 

 

Here is a chance for you to resolve the contradiction between your two statements, Ironhorse.

 

A 'Yes' answer to the following question will do that.

 

Does scripture say that God ordains/decrees all things?

.

.

.

Romans 9 : 16 - 24

 

16 It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God’s mercy. 

17 For Scripture says to Pharaoh: ‘I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.’

18 Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.

19 One of you will say to me: ‘Then why does God still blame us? For who is able to resist his will?’ 

20 But who are you, a human being, to talk back to God? ‘Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it, “Why did you make me like this?”’

21 Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for special purposes and some for common use?

22 What if God, although choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath – prepared for destruction? 

23 What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory –

24 even us, whom he also called, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles? 

.

.

.

Does scripture say that God ordains/decrees all things?

.

.

.

Please answer truthfully.

 

Thanks,

 

BAA.

[ironhorse]

 

 

 

 

 

I consider my testimony I posted to give evidence (proof) as to why I hold my view of Christianity.

 

And I consider the testimonials I have read from ex-christians and others as their personal stories the same way. I have read most of the 106 pages of the pinned Testimonies of Former Christians.

 

And I have read a lot of truth in them. Truth that what I consider “Bad Christianity” has caused them a lot pain and disappointment. It has twisted and hijacked scripture to indoctrinate and control people.

 

I can see why they left Christianity.

 

 

IH, is your god Omnipotent, Omnipresent and Omniscient? He cannot be if you have truly read my testimony?

 http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/44259-please-forgive-me/page-1#.V2Ps4bsrKUk

 

 

 

I have read your testimony. I have read it more than once.

It is beautifully written. Some of the sentiments you expressed reminded me of 

a U2 song "Wake Up Dead Man". Please don't take offense but it to me it reads like a prayer.

 

It is a prayer. One last prayer to god. You didn't answer my question. That's called 'avoidance' hon.

 

.....''is your god Omnipotent, Omnipresent and Omniscient?''

 

 

 

I do believe God omnipotent.  Nothing that is possible according to God’s character and purpose is impossible.

 

I believe God is omnipresent. He is present everywhere at all times. In time, he is as ever present in June 17, 1864  as he is today in June 17, 2016.

 

I believe God omniscient. He has total knowledge. He knows all things but this does not mean he decrees all things.

 

 

As Ficino has recently pointed out to you, Ironhorse...

 

God's omnipotence means that He decrees all things.

 

So your first and last statements contradict one another.

.

.

.

Substituting the word decree for ordain doesn't change the argument one iota, btw.

 

 

 

Omnipotence is the quality of having unlimited power.

It does not mean God decrees all things.

 

In your most recent post in this thread you gave the text from Romans 9.

We have discussed this before.

 

This is worth taking time to read to understand why I take the opposing view.

 

http://evangelicalarminians.org/arminian-principles-for-interpreting-romans-9/