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What true christian religion do you have IH? How did I miss getting 'the truth'. Why wouldn't god want me to have 'the truth'? Tell us what version of christianity you study? Maybe it's not too late for me? For us here? Share it with us please.

 

 

I like the word C.S. Lewis used to describe it: Mere Christianity. Meaning “having no admixture”, “being nothing more than”.

There are numerous warnings by Jesus and in other scriptures about being on the watch for false teachers and false doctrines.

 

Scriptures warn of many. These are red flags that should not be ignored.

 

I will not quote them all but I do want to point out this passage in 2 Peter where he is warning about being careful about what some are teaching concerning Paul’s writings. This is extremely important because it appears that most of these false teachings come out of a gross misreadings and understanding of what Paul actually wrote.

 

Some from ignorance, I do not mean that to be derogatory but just a lack of knowledge. I am ignorant about how to perform brain surgery. Others could do so deliberately to spread deceit and confusion. Devils and those in league with them are fond of quoting scripture.

 

"In that letter, as indeed in all his letters, he referred to these matters. There are, of course, some things which are difficult to understand, and which, unhappily, ill-informed and unbalanced people distort (as they do the other scriptures), and bring disaster on their own heads."

~ 2 Peter 3:18 (PHILLIPS)

 

 

I could give many examples of this false or distorted version of Christianity but I will offer this one.

I have tried to following the scripture’s warnings about “testing the spirits” and “searching the scriptures” to see if what they say is true. Almost everything I see on so-called “religious TV” is a distortion. Right now can only think of only a few ministries or teachers on TV who are telling the truth.

 

Why so few?

 

I guess there are some other reasons other than the ones I have mentioned. I don’t know.

 

I do know that Jesus said there would be many.

 

“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

~ Matthew 7:21-23 (NIV)

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So again we were only doing it wrong?

 

 

How to do it right, IH?

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When I was a kid, we went to the Methodist church, then the Presbyterian. When I got saved, it was w/ the Assemblies of God. Later I became Reformed Episcopalian. Then Catholic.

 

So there's five denominations.

 

And now after all these years Ironhorse is suggesting I ditched Christianity because I wasn't exposed to true Christianity? I only hooked up with some of the bad denominations?

 

I hear there are 40,000 denominations.

 

Shall I test out denomination #6? Then, maybe, #7? I could try Ironhorse's, but that might just turn out to be #37 on the secret known-only-to-God list of 39,999 bad denominations.

 

Meanwhile, a whole life is a long time to be unhappy.

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So again we were only doing it wrong?

~ yunea

 

And now after all these years Ironhorse is suggesting I ditched Christianity because I wasn't exposed to true Christianity?
~ ficino

 

 

No, please no. That is not what I was saying.  

 

I was answering a question for Margee. My answer was not directed at her or anyone.

 

My answer was dealing with the term “True Christianity” and her request as to what “version” I study.

I was pointing out the dangers about trusting and blindly accepting what others teach about Christianity without check it out against what the scriptures actually say.

I stated in other thread recently that some leave because of this “bad and abusive” form of Christianity and others leave because of intellectual disagreement and other reasons. 

 

This for me is what is important:

The scriptures clearly teach that I’m a miserable wretched sinner. I can barely control my actions at times and there seems to be no way to keep bad or nasty thoughts from popping in my head now and then. I’m human. That’s the way I am. The scriptures clearly teach that God loves me and sent his son to die for my sins. I accept that. That truth has set me free. I do my best. If I fail or commit a sin, I ask for forgiveness. I don’t pray to get saved again, I ask forgiveness and talk to God about it. Prayer helps build my relationship with God.

I’m a real Lutheran on ‘sanctification’. It’s not a “get zapped and get perfect” one time event but a lifetime journey. That’s one teaching Martin Luther nailed down right with the scriptures.

 

Salvation is about grace, not works.

 

What I’m trying to say is Christianity is first about my relationship with God. Once there I could move on to studying and deciding on other aspects of faith and practice. This makes it a lot easier to not be burdened or bound by stuff that doesn’t matter and to see those red flags that will trap and deceive.

 

Concerning the thousands of denominations; just the sheer numbers means there’s a lot that could be examined. The New Testament grants a lot of freedom in matters of how to practice or conduct church gatherings. For me, if a denomination holds to the fundamentals (or the core teachings of Christianity) it does not matter if they worship on Saturday or Sunday or any other day. Whether they play all Fanny Crosby hymns or shout out with a five piece rock band. People prefer different styles and ways of doing a lot of things. Christians have this freedom. As long as their main messages checks out against the scriptures, no problem.

 

“Teacher,” said John, “we saw someone driving out demons in your name and we told him to stop, because he was not one of us.”

“Do not stop him,” Jesus said. “For no one who does a miracle in my name can in the next moment say anything bad about me, for whoever is not against us is for us.

 

And a warning to those who cause believers to stumble.

 

“If anyone causes one of these little ones—those who believe in me—to stumble, it would be better for them if a large millstone were hung around their neck and they were thrown into the sea.

 

~ Mark 9:38,39,50 (NIV)

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...check it out against what the scriptures actually say.

 

Every Christian from snake handlers to tongue talkers to Baptists to Catholics to SDAs to Mormons are following what their scripture actually says. When serious Bible students come up against serious contradictions they turn to the wisdom of others to explain away the problems; perhaps a Scofield Bible, perhaps other reference materials, perhaps their pastor. No offense, but you simply will not, on your own, know how to twist conflicting verses to fit your preconception without turning to others for their explanations and apologetics.

 

Still not seeing it, eh?

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...check it out against what the scriptures actually say.

 

Every Christian from snake handlers to tongue talkers to Baptists to Catholics to SDAs to Mormons are following what their scripture actually says. When serious Bible students come up against serious contradictions they turn to the wisdom of others to explain away the problems; perhaps a Scofield Bible, perhaps other reference materials, perhaps their pastor. No offense, but you simply will not, on your own, know how to twist conflicting verses to fit your preconception without turning to others for their explanations and apologetics.

 

Still not seeing it, eh?

 

 

 

florduh, do you agree or disagree that the scriptures warn of false teachers and false doctrines? 

I realize you might think the entire Bible is all blabble, but do you not agree that it has this warning? 

 

I have often been viewed by some as being brainwashed. I would totally agree if I sat in front of my TV and believed everything I heard some of these religious teachers say. 

 

I guess you mean, by not seeing it, that I am also guilty of cherry-picking scripture and only believing what I want to believe.

 

If that is what you think I am doing, I don't really know what else to say. 

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florduh, do you agree or disagree that the scriptures warn of false teachers and false doctrines? 

 

I realize you might think the entire Bible is all blabble, but do you not agree that it has this warning? 

 

Of course it's in there for all to read. The result is that everyone you disagree with is a false teacher. Those you consider to be false teachers consider your teachers to be false. See it yet?

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florduh, do you agree or disagree that the scriptures warn of false teachers and false doctrines? 

 

I realize you might think the entire Bible is all blabble, but do you not agree that it has this warning? 

 

Of course it's in there for all to read. The result is that everyone you disagree with is a false teacher. Those you consider to be false teachers consider your teachers to be false. See it yet?

 

 

 

If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking.

~ George S. Patton

 

 I think if the scriptures warn us of false teachers, it means they can be exposed if we think and go to the scriptures for the truth.

 

Here is one example:

 

“ Ye have not because ye ask not”  (James 4:2)

 

The Prosperity preachers love this verse. I’ve seen Creflo Dollar go back and forth on his grand stage hammering this one home to thunderous applause.

 

In this prosperity theology, man—not God—becomes the focal point of prayer. God is Santa Clause ready and willing to lavish us with gifts.

 

This is an example of cherry-picking.

 

Here’s why:

“yet ye have not, because ye ask not.”

v.2

Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.

v.3 (KJV)

 

Verse three is the one Dollar fails to mentioned.

 

NIV translation makes it even clearer:

“When you ask, you do not receive, because you ask with wrong motives, that you may spend what you get on your pleasures.

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florduh, do you agree or disagree that the scriptures warn of false teachers and false doctrines? 

 

I realize you might think the entire Bible is all blabble, but do you not agree that it has this warning? 

 

Of course it's in there for all to read. The result is that everyone you disagree with is a false teacher. Those you consider to be false teachers consider your teachers to be false. See it yet?

 

 

Florduh,

 

Maybe that just as Adam and Eve couldn't comprehend the test God set for them...

 

...so Ironhorse can't comprehend the test you're setting for him?

 

Wendyshrug.gif

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florduh, do you agree or disagree that the scriptures warn of false teachers and false doctrines? 

 

I realize you might think the entire Bible is all blabble, but do you not agree that it has this warning? 

 

Of course it's in there for all to read. The result is that everyone you disagree with is a false teacher. Those you consider to be false teachers consider your teachers to be false. See it yet?

 

 

 

If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking.

~ George S. Patton

 

 I think if the scriptures warn us of false teachers, it means they can be exposed if we think and go to the scriptures for the truth.

 

Here is one example:

 

“ Ye have not because ye ask not”  (James 4:2)

 

The Prosperity preachers love this verse. I’ve seen Creflo Dollar go back and forth on his grand stage hammering this one home to thunderous applause.

 

In this prosperity theology, man—not God—becomes the focal point of prayer. God is Santa Clause ready and willing to lavish us with gifts.

 

This is an example of cherry-picking.

 

Here’s why:

“yet ye have not, because ye ask not.”

v.2

Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.

v.3 (KJV)

 

Verse three is the one Dollar fails to mentioned.

 

NIV translation makes it even clearer:

“When you ask, you do not receive, because you ask with wrong motives, that you may spend what you get on your pleasures.

 

Right, you each choose to focus on different verses that suit your preconceptions, personality, state of mind. 

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IH, would you say that it's all about inclusion? Jesus died ...even for the atheist?

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What true christian religion do you have IH? How did I miss getting 'the truth'. Why wouldn't god want me to have 'the truth'? Tell us what version of christianity you study? Maybe it's not too late for me? For us here? Share it with us please.

I like the word C.S. Lewis used to describe it: Mere Christianity. Meaning “having no admixture”, “being nothing more than”.

There are numerous warnings by Jesus and in other scriptures about being on the watch for false teachers and false doctrines.

 

Scriptures warn of many. These are red flags that should not be ignored.

 

I will not quote them all but I do want to point out this passage in 2 Peter where he is warning about being careful about what some are teaching concerning Paul’s writings. This is extremely important because it appears that most of these false teachings come out of a gross misreadings and understanding of what Paul actually wrote.

 

Some from ignorance, I do not mean that to be derogatory but just a lack of knowledge. I am ignorant about how to perform brain surgery. Others could do so deliberately to spread deceit and confusion. Devils and those in league with them are fond of quoting scripture.

 

"In that letter, as indeed in all his letters, he referred to these matters. There are, of course, some things which are difficult to understand, and which, unhappily, ill-informed and unbalanced people distort (as they do the other scriptures), and bring disaster on their own heads."

~ 2 Peter 3:18 (PHILLIPS)

 

 

I could give many examples of this false or distorted version of Christianity but I will offer this one.

I have tried to following the scripture’s warnings about “testing the spirits” and “searching the scriptures” to see if what they say is true. Almost everything I see on so-called “religious TV” is a distortion. Right now can only think of only a few ministries or teachers on TV who are telling the truth.

 

Why so few?

 

I guess there are some other reasons other than the ones I have mentioned. I don’t know.

 

I do know that Jesus said there would be many.

 

“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

~ Matthew 7:21-23 (NIV)

You know mate that kind of theology would be throwing most of these people into the dustbin, what is the usual answer to this quandary

 

"God knows each persons heart."

 

So then who are the evil doers.

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IH, would you say that it's all about inclusion? Jesus died ...even for the atheist?

 

Yes, there are many passages that teach this.

Here is one:

 

"And he is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world."

~ 1 John 2:2

 

 

 

Now back to the cherry picking….

Here is another verse often quoted often by the health and wealth preachers. It is one of their favorites.

 

For I know the plans I have for you,” declares the Lord, “plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future.

~ Jeremiah 29:11

 

It is part of a letter to the Jewish people in exile in Babylonia. The letter has good news and some disheartening news. The good news they will return to their homeland. The bad news it won’t be in just two years, it will be in seventy-five years. The letter also contains God’s instructions on how they should live during this waiting period.

 

A Letter to the Exiles

 

Verses 1-3

“This is the text of the letter that the prophet Jeremiah sent from Jerusalem to the surviving elders among the exiles and to the priests, the prophets and all the other people Nebuchadnezzar had carried into exile from Jerusalem to Babylon. 2 (This was after King Jehoiachin[a] and the queen mother, the court officials and the leaders of Judah and Jerusalem, the skilled workers and the artisans had gone into exile from Jerusalem.)  He entrusted the letter to Elasah son of Shaphan and to Gemariah son of Hilkiah, whom Zedekiah king of Judah sent to King Nebuchadnezzar in Babylon. It said: This is what the Lord Almighty, the God of Israel, says to all those I carried into exile from Jerusalem to Babylon….”

 

 

Verse 10-11

“This is what the Lord says: “When seventy years are completed for Babylon, I will come to you and fulfill my good promise to bring you back to this place. For I know the plans I have for you,” declares the Lord, “plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future.”

 

This passage does not directed or a promise to modern Christians. It is a promise to restore the ancient Jews to the land, which God had promised to their forefathers Abraham and Moses. This is a historically-specific letter written by God (through Jeremiah).

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IH, would you say that it's all about inclusion? Jesus died ...even for the atheist?

 

Yes, there are many passages that teach this.

Here is one:

 

"And he is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world."

~ 1 John 2:2

 

 

 

 

Yes, I am familiar with those scriptures IH. I actually used to like that particular scripture. I thought it was very nice that jesus died for the whole world.

 

The very last church I was involved in, is what they called themselves to be a completely 100% ''saved by grace'' church and that Jesus died for the whole world.  Would that mean I am still 'saved' to you? Once saved-always saved?

 

Thanks

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IH, would you say that it's all about inclusion? Jesus died ...even for the atheist?

 

Yes, there are many passages that teach this.

Here is one:

 

"And he is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world."

~ 1 John 2:2

 

 

 

 

Yes, I am familiar with those scriptures IH. I actually used to like that particular scripture. I thought it was very nice that jesus died for the whole world.

 

The very last church I was involved in, is what they called themselves to be a completely 100% ''saved by grace'' church and that Jesus died for the whole world.  Would that mean I am still 'saved' to you? Once saved-always saved?

 

Thanks

 

 

 

Yes, I do believe the scriptures teach once saved always saved.

 

A person saved by grace can't escape the love and forgiveness of God...

 

..no matter what he or she does. 

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IH, would you say that it's all about inclusion? Jesus died ...even for the atheist?

Yes, there are many passages that teach this.

Here is one:

 

"And he is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world."

~ 1 John 2:2

 

 

 

Now back to the cherry picking….

Here is another verse often quoted often by the health and wealth preachers. It is one of their favorites.

 

For I know the plans I have for you,” declares the Lord, “plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future.

~ Jeremiah 29:11

 

It is part of a letter to the Jewish people in exile in Babylonia. The letter has good news and some disheartening news. The good news they will return to their homeland. The bad news it won’t be in just two years, it will be in seventy-five years. The letter also contains God’s instructions on how they should live during this waiting period.

 

A Letter to the Exiles

 

Verses 1-3

“This is the text of the letter that the prophet Jeremiah sent from Jerusalem to the surviving elders among the exiles and to the priests, the prophets and all the other people Nebuchadnezzar had carried into exile from Jerusalem to Babylon. 2 (This was after King Jehoiachin[a] and the queen mother, the court officials and the leaders of Judah and Jerusalem, the skilled workers and the artisans had gone into exile from Jerusalem.) He entrusted the letter to Elasah son of Shaphan and to Gemariah son of Hilkiah, whom Zedekiah king of Judah sent to King Nebuchadnezzar in Babylon. It said: This is what the Lord Almighty, the God of Israel, says to all those I carried into exile from Jerusalem to Babylon….”

 

 

Verse 10-11

“This is what the Lord says: “When seventy years are completed for Babylon, I will come to you and fulfill my good promise to bring you back to this place. For I know the plans I have for you,” declares the Lord, “plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future.”

 

This passage does not directed or a promise to modern Christians. It is a promise to restore the ancient Jews to the land, which God had promised to their forefathers Abraham and Moses. This is a historically-specific letter written by God (through Jeremiah).

You have to cherry pick, otherwise you'll end up bringing home a bunch of rotten fruit.
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IH, would you say that it's all about inclusion? Jesus died ...even for the atheist?

Yes, there are many passages that teach this.

Here is one:

 

"And he is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world."

~ 1 John 2:2

 

 

Yes, I am familiar with those scriptures IH. I actually used to like that particular scripture. I thought it was very nice that jesus died for the whole world.

 

The very last church I was involved in, is what they called themselves to be a completely 100% ''saved by grace'' church and that Jesus died for the whole world. Would that mean I am still 'saved' to you? Once saved-always saved?

 

Thanks

 

Yes, I do believe the scriptures teach once saved always saved.

 

A person saved by grace can't escape the love and forgiveness of God...

 

..no matter what he or she does.

God must be Ricky Martin.

 

You can run, you can hide, but you'll never escape my love.

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IH, would you say that it's all about inclusion? Jesus died ...even for the atheist?

 

Yes, there are many passages that teach this.

Here is one:

 

"And he is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world."

~ 1 John 2:2

 

 

 

 

Yes, I am familiar with those scriptures IH. I actually used to like that particular scripture. I thought it was very nice that jesus died for the whole world.

 

The very last church I was involved in, is what they called themselves to be a completely 100% ''saved by grace'' church and that Jesus died for the whole world.  Would that mean I am still 'saved' to you? Once saved-always saved?

 

Thanks

 

 

 

Yes, I do believe the scriptures teach once saved always saved.

 

A person saved by grace can't escape the love and forgiveness of God...

 

..no matter what he or she does. 

 

Part of me wants to stay out of this conversation between Margee and Ironhorse. I hope I don't put them off their interaction.

 

I can't help but notice though, that I'm still saved, according to Ironhorse, even though I no longer believe in Jesus as god, messiah, or whatever. This really is good news! "I believe Lord! Please help my unbelief!" No one [not even me] shall pluck me from his hand, because after all I was a believer once. I gave cups of water in his name and everything!

Have I got that right Ironhorse? Am I still in, or is there something I still should be doing to be saved?

 

Sounds sarcastic, I know. Didn't mean that way.

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IH, would you say that it's all about inclusion? Jesus died ...even for the atheist?

Yes, there are many passages that teach this.

Here is one:

 

"And he is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world."

~ 1 John 2:2

 

Yes, I am familiar with those scriptures IH. I actually used to like that particular scripture. I thought it was very nice that jesus died for the whole world.

 

The very last church I was involved in, is what they called themselves to be a completely 100% ''saved by grace'' church and that Jesus died for the whole world. Would that mean I am still 'saved' to you? Once saved-always saved?

 

Thanks

Yes, I do believe the scriptures teach once saved always saved.

 

A person saved by grace can't escape the love and forgiveness of God...

 

..no matter what he or she does.

 

God must be Ricky Martin.

 

You can run, you can hide, but you'll never escape my love.

 

 

So IH, I wrote a song a long time ago about trying to run away from the Lord. I was backsliding real bad when I wrote this song. Of course when I went back to church and gave my testimony about leaving and not being able to get away from the Lords calling, they cheered and screamed and rejoiced as I sang my little heart out in an upbeat, real blusey style..

 

And now I think you are telling me (and all of us on Ex-c) that we might all still be saved? I have a dear girlfriend who believes this same version of Christianity.

 

Here's the song I wrote and used to sing in the church.

 

When the Lord Jesus Christ
Gives a calling on your life...
There ain't nothin' you can do or say
To chase his Holy spirit away
You can run as far as China my friend
Or try to hide on a secluded Island,
He's in your heart, you see?
And he will find you eventually.
 
So stop runnin' away my child
He's just tryna make your life worthwhile
If you feel the need to be happy, contented and free....
Then take some time and listen to my story
I know a way you can have peace and glory
Give your whole heart to Jesus and he'll give you - the victory.
 
When the Lord Jesus Christ 
Gives a callin' on your life
You can turn your back and walk away
But the Holy Ghost won't let you stray
You can climb a mountain up to the sky
Or try to hide on the desert so dry
He's in your heart, you see? 
And he will find you eventually.
 
Repeat Chorus: So stop runnin' away my child.........
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Did god ever bother to ask if we wanted to be saved; or did he just assume it when he predestined us?

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IH, would you say that it's all about inclusion? Jesus died ...even for the atheist?

Yes, there are many passages that teach this.

Here is one:

 

"And he is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world."

~ 1 John 2:2

 

Yes, I am familiar with those scriptures IH. I actually used to like that particular scripture. I thought it was very nice that jesus died for the whole world.

 

The very last church I was involved in, is what they called themselves to be a completely 100% ''saved by grace'' church and that Jesus died for the whole world. Would that mean I am still 'saved' to you? Once saved-always saved?

 

Thanks

Yes, I do believe the scriptures teach once saved always saved.

 

A person saved by grace can't escape the love and forgiveness of God...

 

..no matter what he or she does.

 

God must be Ricky Martin.

 

You can run, you can hide, but you'll never escape my love.

 

 

So IH, I wrote a song a long time ago about trying to run away from the Lord. I was backsliding real bad when I wrote this song. Of course when I went back to church and gave my testimony about leaving and not being able to get away from the Lords calling, they cheered and screamed and rejoiced as I sang my little heart out in an upbeat, real blusey style..

 

And now I think you are telling me (and all of us on Ex-c) that we might all still be saved? I have a dear girlfriend who believes this same version of Christianity.

 

Here's the song I wrote and used to sing in the church.

 

When the Lord Jesus Christ
Gives a calling on your life...
There ain't nothin' you can do or say
To chase his Holy spirit away
You can run as far as China my friend
Or try to hide on a secluded Island,
He's in your heart, you see?
And he will find you eventually.
 
So stop runnin' away my child
He's just tryna make your life worthwhile
If you feel the need to be happy, contented and free....
Then take some time and listen to my story
I know a way you can have peace and glory
Give your whole heart to Jesus and he'll give you - the victory.
 
When the Lord Jesus Christ 
Gives a callin' on your life
You can turn your back and walk away
But the Holy Ghost won't let you stray
You can climb a mountain up to the sky
Or try to hide on the desert so dry
He's in your heart, you see? 
And he will find you eventually.
 
Repeat Chorus: So stop runnin' away my child.........

 

 

 

Did god ever bother to ask if we wanted to be saved; or did he just assume it when he predestined us?

 

It is almost impossible to read the Bible and come away with the concept of Free Will. At the Last Judgement, if your name is not found in The Book of Life, written before the Foundation of the World, you will be tossed into the Lake of Fire. Is it really that hard for a Christian to understand? So, even if we tried desperately to believe this nonsense, since our names were never in the Book of Life to begin with, is it any wonder that we left?

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IH, would you say that it's all about inclusion? Jesus died ...even for the atheist?

Yes, there are many passages that teach this.

Here is one:

 

"And he is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world."

~ 1 John 2:2

 

 

Yes, I am familiar with those scriptures IH. I actually used to like that particular scripture. I thought it was very nice that jesus died for the whole world.

 

The very last church I was involved in, is what they called themselves to be a completely 100% ''saved by grace'' church and that Jesus died for the whole world. Would that mean I am still 'saved' to you? Once saved-always saved?

 

Thanks

 

Yes, I do believe the scriptures teach once saved always saved.

 

A person saved by grace can't escape the love and forgiveness of God...

 

..no matter what he or she does.

Woo hoo I'm still going to heaven... Aww shit
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IH, would you say that it's all about inclusion? Jesus died ...even for the atheist?

Yes, there are many passages that teach this.

Here is one:

 

"And he is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world."

~ 1 John 2:2

 

 

Yes, I am familiar with those scriptures IH. I actually used to like that particular scripture. I thought it was very nice that jesus died for the whole world.

 

The very last church I was involved in, is what they called themselves to be a completely 100% ''saved by grace'' church and that Jesus died for the whole world. Would that mean I am still 'saved' to you? Once saved-always saved?

 

Thanks

 

Yes, I do believe the scriptures teach once saved always saved.

 

A person saved by grace can't escape the love and forgiveness of God...

 

..no matter what he or she does.

Woo hoo I'm still going to heaven... Aww shit

 

 

I was having a discussion recently with my GF's sister. I actually told her that the thought of spending an infinitely boring Eternity in the Christian Heaven, singing hymns in the Heavenly choir, is a lot scarier to me than threats of hell. Kinda freaked her out a little. I also told her that if she was wrong, she had wasted thousands of hours, and tens of thousands of dollars, for nothing. For the supposedly free gift of Christianity! zDuivel7.gif Actually though, here's what the Bible actually says:

 

 

Hebrews 6:4 It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, 6 if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace. (NIV)

 

I'm pretty sure that we're safe.

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No. No. The scripture lied not. Oops which statement should I beleive????

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No. No. The scripture lied not. Oops which statement should I beleive????

 

Actually, I don't think the NT is at all clear about "Once saved, always saved". I guess I'll let Christians worry about that. They always do.

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