To Our Guests

[qadeshet]

Right now, there are 14 Members online, and 54 Guests. Sometimes we forget that you are just as important. You might notice that we sometimes disagree. but isn't that what all families do? I am here for you and all others who are just starting to see the cracks of doubt. You can plaster these doubts for a while, but then a new one appears. I left Christianity 40 years, and it wasn't easy. I thought that my Pastors could answer my questions. Well, just don't ask the wrong questions. Have any of you heard these pat answers?

 

"The Church has done all your thinking for you so you don't have to think for yourself." Or:

 

"Christianity must be true because it's so rediculous."

 

"Quit asking those pesky questions."

 

If you were satisfied with those answers, then you probably wouldn't be here. I wish the Internet was available in '72. It took a lot of trips to the Library and Bookstores. Hopefully, you will be able to find some answers here. We are here for you.

 

 

[Jeff]

54 guests. Wow.

People. It's gonna be ok. It's ok to think those thoughts that you've always feared. My life is so much better post Christianity.

You're gonna be ok

[qadeshet]

54 guests. Wow.

People. It's gonna be ok. It's ok to think those thoughts that you've always feared. My life is so much better post Christianity.

You're gonna be ok

 

Thanks Jeff! Every time I post I know our Guests are watching. Many of us lurked for a long time and finally joined. Maybe think of them occasionly when you post? I intend to bump it every day.

[qadeshet]

Currently, 46 Guests have entered our home. Believe me, you are very welcome. Although we can't see you, we know that you're there. Come join us and you'll have access to a lot more material. Really, we don't bite. Here's my thought for today. If a god were All Powerful and All Knowing, then he is responsibe for all the Evil and Suffering in the World. When you look at the World, what do you see? We see children getting eaten by alligators.

 

ironchariots.org-Problem of Evil

 

As Epicurus pointed out:

"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?"

 

If the Christian "god" exists, it is not good.

[qadeshet]

Welcome to our 52 Guests! I am so glad you're here! Whether you're a True Christian, or just doubting your Faith, all are welcome. Here is my Rant for today that was posted in an earlier Thread. I post it because it is my Philosophical view. But first...

 

Everyone has the right to believe whatever they like, so long as they don't harm others.

 

from another Thread:

 

rjn, on 22 Jun 2016 - 09:03 AM, said:

In what way does a bunch of neo-pagan hippies affect society? Zen Buddhists? Quakers?

 

What do think would happen if these "peaceful believers" had the Political Power that the Church once held?

 

"Power corrupts, and Absolute Power corrupts Absolutely."

 

I don't know of any "True Believer" who really respects the beliefs of others. Remember Texas Gov Abbott's evil tweet? I like Buddhism so long as you keep Religion out of it.

 

Go Philosophy! Yea Plato!

 

There is a movie that, I think, everyone should see, The Power

with George Hamilton,,,summary below.

 

Quote

 

One by one members of a special project team are being killed by telekinesis - the ability to move things with the power of the mind alone. The race is to determine which of the remaining team members is the murderer and to stop them.

 

"Those who don't learn from History are doomed to repeat it."

 

To be honest, I can't see, Historically speaking, that any Religion has ever been anything more than a nuisance.

 

Feel free to disagree. Join the debate!

 

Have a nice day! And yes, I endorse this message.

[LifeCycle]

Yup! Keep on asking. Keep on scrutinizing. Truth should welcome it.

 

Never in a million years would I have seen myself as a non-believer but life is unpredictable. But I'm a lot happier and things make a lot more sense now. 

[qadeshet]

Yup! Keep on asking. Keep on scrutinizing. Truth should welcome it.

 

Never in a million years would I have seen myself as a non-believer but life is unpredictable. But I'm a lot happier and things make a lot more sense now. 

 

Thanks LifeCycle! Really, are you, me, and Jeff the only ones that notice the Guests in our Home? They are not invisible.

[Jeff]

We mention them often in the lions den as many of our conversations there should be rather telling to a lurker.

[qadeshet]

Currently we have 64 Guests. Outstanding! In order for you to understand me, it might help if you watch my Anthem. Again, welcome!

 

Steppenwolf's Monster

 

If you watch, I hope you enjoy. Why not join us? Maybe we can help.

[qadeshet]

7 members, 70 guests, 2 anonymous users-Welcome!

 

We mention them often in the lions den as many of our conversations there should be rather telling to a lurker.

 

After 11 years here, I thought that it was time to let them know, maybe just in a short message, that I'm writing for them too. I know they're there. And I want them to know that we really welcome them. Why it took me so long to really notice that we are a family, and this is our home, I just don't know.

[Margee]

66 guests reading now.

 

Hi guys! I was you 5 years ago.... reading all the posts from the outside and wondering if I was the only one who doubted the christian god and the bible. Come on in and post with us!! We need you here even if you are just doubting! C'mon, join up!! We are a fun gang to hangout with!!

 

Here's my testimony.....http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/44259-please-forgive-me/page-1#.V2rXofkrKUk

 

 

 

(big ((hugs)) to you all!

[qadeshet]

8 members, 62 guests, 1 anonymous user---So glad your here!

 

66 guests reading now.

 

Hi guys! I was you 5 years ago.... reading all the posts from the outside and wondering if I was the only one who doubted the christian god and the bible. Come on in and post with us!! We need you here even if you are just doubting! C'mon, join up!! We are a fun gang to hangout with!!

 

Here's my testimony.....http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/44259-please-forgive-me/page-1#.V2rXofkrKUk

 

 

 

(big ((hugs)) to you all!

 

Thank you Margee! Here, we can talk directly to as many as 8 times the number of Members that are online Think that sounds interresting?

[qadeshet]

59 guests, 1 anonymous users---Really Guests, it's you, mostly, that has kept me coming here for 11 years. And if you wonder why, it's because I know just difficult the Deconversion Process really is. I sure would have liked to have this resource 40 years ago. I had no one, save the Church dimwits, to ask, and no Internet. If you were happy with this answer, then you wouldn't be here.

 

"The Church has done all your thinking for you so you don't have to think for yourself."

 

When I was told that, I almost wet myself. He meant it but I couldn't believe that anyone could think such a thing. That was my last day in Church. I hope you can find what you need here. Welcome!

 

aside to Jeff:

 

This our home and guests have arrived. Are we really going to tell them to "Step into the Lion's Den!"? If a 'True Christian' wants a debate, then great. They may even ask to enter the Den, if thats what they wish. All Guests are welcome.

[buffettphan]

Also, valued guests, don't feel like you'll be out of place if you have already deconverted or were never one of those True Christians^TM in the first place.     I was at a point where I needed support in dealing with the christians in my life.  Before Google was even around, I "dogpiled" (remember that anyone?) something like: "former christian married to fundy christian" and landed on the Main Blog of Ex-C and posted there for years before joining the Forums.    

 

Like qadeshet, I too wish the internet and sites like this had been around decades ago.  When I was deconverting, I had no one to talk to and I spent so much time in libraries and bookstores researching christianity, as well as other religions, looking for answers.  Now we have all this information and support right here at our fingertips! 

 

Please join us.  

[Fweethawt]

Before Google was even around, I "dogpiled" (remember that anyone?)

I do! Wow! That seems like such a long time ago.

[qadeshet]

42 guests, 2 anonymous users

 

Hi Guests, welcome to our Internet Home. I'm not sure how I located this place ; 11 years ago, but it seems like yesterday. But you may have typed "ex christian", or maybe "leaving Christianity", into search. Maybe you wanted help with your doubts, or just to see if we really exist. Yes, your Church lied to you . It is possible to leave that crazy crap. I'm going to tell you something. Christianity began, not with the death of some deluded Jew, but as a Mystery Drama, performed in groups by early Christians. Later Christians took this Mythic Cycle literally and called themselves "Orthodox". What we think of as Christianity actually began with Constantine. After his death, Christianity, as we now know it, was created. Did you know that Church Father Eusibius, "The Father of Church History", was also the "Father of Pious Fraud"? Apparently, according to Eusibius, any lies that furthered the goals of the Church were justified. Going to Church is like spending time in a movie theater. The entire story is no more real than "Star Wars". Wouldn't it suck to have to pay 10% of your income, for life, just to watch Harry Potter? That's what you're doing.

 

What do we say to newly doubting Believers who come here looking for answers? Welcome!

[Margee]

Pinned. Thanks Buff. 

...........................................

Ok precious guests, I want you to study the book of Genesis. Do you really, really, really, really believe in this story? Now, please answer this question for yourselves. This whole issue of being born in sin was between  Adam and Eve and God. They were the only humans alive 'in the beginning', right? With exception to the fish, birds and animals, right? That's what this whole beginning story is about, right? That's all that was on the earth at the time, right? Are you with me?  Then.....Who was the stenographer who stood outside the garden gates and documented all this??? Please look at this carefully. It was one of the first questions I asked my pastor and he could not answer it!!  This story was written down many years later by someone who made it up!!

 

And did you realize that our 'all powerful, intelligent god' wanted Adam to go find a mate with the animals first?? Then when Adam could not find an acceptable 'mate' among the animals, he then decided to give Adam 'an operation' and took a rib from him and made woman?? Does this sound intelligent to you? This is the story you really believe??

 

The Lord God said, “It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him.”  Now the Lord God had formed out of the ground all the wild animals and all the birds in the sky. He brought them to the man… but for Adam no suitable helper was found. So the Lord God… (decided in his dumbness because that intelligent plan didn't work....) made a woman… and he brought her to the man. (Now where did the part go that he had to put Adam asleep to do the operation?? Looks like she was fully formed??)

 Genesis 2:18-22...    This is the book you believe for 'The map of your life'??

 

Picture poor ole' Adam. 'Choose ye now a suitable helper from one of my many animal creations', God probably ordered in a somber tone. Can't you just imagine  Adam was a bit apprehensive? 'Surely,' he must have thought, 'This must be the first practical joke!' Why else would God make a mate for everyone but me? But Adam didn’t want to seem rude. After all, he was new at this, and God knew everything about everything......

 

There was a time when I fell for (and completely believed) the whole story also......Then my intelligence kicked in. Let your intelligence kick in today. Go and study that whole book. Does it look like god is all powerful - all knowing to you?

 

Big ((hugs)) to you all today

[qadeshet]

Pinned. Thanks Buff. 

...........................................

Ok precious guests, I want you to study the book of Genesis. Do you really, really, really, really believe in this story? Now, please answer this question for yourselves. This whole issue of being born in sin was between  Adam and Eve and God. They were the only humans alive 'in the beginning', right? With exception to the fish, birds and animals, right? That's what this whole beginning story is about, right? That's all that was on the earth at the time, right? Are you with me?  Then.....Who was the stenographer who stood outside the garden gates and documented all this??? Please look at this carefully. It was one of the first questions I asked my pastor and he could not answer it!!  This story was written down many years later by someone who made it up!!

 

And did you realize that our 'all powerful, intelligent god' wanted Adam to go find a mate with the animals first?? Then when Adam could not find an acceptable 'mate' among the animals, he then decided to give Adam 'an operation' and took a rib from him and made woman?? Does this sound intelligent to you? This is the story you really believe??

 

The Lord God said, “It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him.”  Now the Lord God had formed out of the ground all the wild animals and all the birds in the sky. He brought them to the man… but for Adam no suitable helper was found. So the Lord God… (decided in his dumbness because that intelligent plan didn't work....) made a woman… and he brought her to the man. (Now where did the part go that he had to put Adam asleep to do the operation?? Looks like she was fully formed??)

 Genesis 2:18-22...    This is the book you believe for 'The map of your life'??

 

Picture poor ole' Adam. 'Choose ye now a suitable helper from one of my many animal creations', God probably ordered in a somber tone. Can't you just imagine  Adam was a bit apprehensive? 'Surely,' he must have thought, 'This must be the first practical joke!' Why else would God make a mate for everyone but me? But Adam didn’t want to seem rude. After all, he was new at this, and God knew everything about everything......

 

There was a time when I fell for (and completely believed) the whole story also......Then my intelligence kicked in. Let your intelligence kick in today. Go and study that whole book. Does it look like god is all powerful - all knowing to you?

 

Big ((hugs)) to you all today

11 members, 55 guests, 0 anonymous users

 

Wow. Great post Margee!

 

Welcome to Guests! Really, know that you are important to us. Remember, most of us are just seeking the truth, just as you are. But you will not find it in Church. Because, if you ask the wrong questions, you will no longer be welcome. Just ask your Pastor this question:

 

"After Adam and Eve were cast from the Garden, they had two sons, Cain and Abel. After Cain killed Abel, "god" couldn't find Abel so he asked Cain: 'Hey buddy, have you seen your brother Abel?' Then Cain is banished to another country where he took himself a wife. So tell me Pastor, since there were only three humans in existence, how did Cain find a wife?"

 

You will be amazed at the look on his face. Remember, you're supposed to let the Church do your thinking for you. If you ask him very many more of "these" kinds of questions, then you will not find much welcome there. I'll go ahead and give you the Pastor's answer.

 

"Maybe Adam and Eve had other children that the Bible doesn't mention!"

 

Your Pastor has just changed the Bible! I shouldn't have to tell you this, but you cannot get rid of Bible contradictions by re-writing the Bible. The Bible directly forbids changing even so much as a letter.

 

Again, we are happy you dropped in, but please consider joining our family. We don't bite.

[qadeshet]

5 members, 54 guests, 1 anonymous users

 

Welcome Guests, happy that you've come in for a visit! Here's something for you from the eminent proponent of Free Thought, Robert G Ingersol.

 

 

I did say that to deny the existence of evil spirits, or to deny the existence of the devil, is to deny the truth of the New Testament; and that to deny the existence of these imps of darkness is to contradict the words of Jesus Christ.

I did say that if we give up the belief in devils we must give up the inspiration of the Old and New Testaments, and we must give up the divinity of Christ. Upon that declaration I stand, because if devils do not exist, then Jesus Christ was mistaken, or we have not in the New Testament a true account of what he said and of what he pretended to do.

If the New Testament gives a true account of his words and pretended actions, then he did claim to cast out devils. That was his principal business. That was his certificate of divinity, casting out devils. That authenticated his mission and proved that he was superior to the hosts of darkness.

Now, take the devil out of the New Testament, and you also take the veracity of Christ; with that veracity you take the divinity; with that divinity you take the atonement, and when you take the atonement, the great fabric known as Christianity becomes a shapeless ruin.

The Christians now claim that Jesus was God. If he was God, of course the devil knew that fact, and yet, according to this account, the devil took the omnipotent God and placed him upon a pinnacle of the temple, and endeavored to induce him to dash himself against the earth…

Think of it! The devil – the prince of sharpers – the king of cunning – the master of finesse, trying to bribe God with a grain of sand that belonged to God!

 

I't costs nothing, except perhaps your chains of slavery. You really can think for yourself! Welcome!

[qadeshet]

6 members, 45 guests

 

Welcome Guests! I am an Agnostic Atheist. All are welcome.

 

Most of the World's Mythic Cycles depend on much earlier Mythic Literature. All roads lead to Sumer!

 

On Plato's Cave:

 

Allegory of the Cave

 

Plato has Socrates describe a gathering of people who have lived chained to the wall of a cave all of their lives, facing a blank wall. The people watch shadows projected on the wall from things passing in front of a fire behind them, and they begin to give names to these shadows. The shadows are as close as the prisoners get to viewing reality. He then explains how the philosopher is like a prisoner who is freed from the cave and comes to understand that the shadows on the wall do not make up reality at all, for he can perceive the true form of reality rather than the mere shadows seen by the prisoners.

Socrates remarks that this allegory can be taken with what was said before, namely the analogy of the sun and the analogy of the divided line. In particular, he likens our perception of the world around us "to the habitation in prison, the firelight there to the sunlight here, the ascent and the view of the upper world [to] the rising of the soul into the world of the mind" (517b).^[1]

 

And: The Golden Asse by Apuleius

 

 

How Apuleius riding in Thessaly, fortuned to fall into company with two strangers, that reasoned together of the mighty power of Witches.

 

An Allegory of Mystery Initiation

 

Just know that you are very welcome in our Home!

 

Also, valued guests, don't feel like you'll be out of place if you have already deconverted or were never one of those True Christians^TM in the first place.     I was at a point where I needed support in dealing with the christians in my life.  Before Google was even around, I "dogpiled" (remember that anyone?) something like: "former christian married to fundy christian" and landed on the Main Blog of Ex-C and posted there for years before joining the Forums.    

 

Like qadeshet, I too wish the internet and sites like this had been around decades ago.  When I was deconverting, I had no one to talk to and I spent so much time in libraries and bookstores researching christianity, as well as other religions, looking for answers.  Now we have all this information and support right here at our fingertips! 

 

Please join us.  

 

I read your nice Post but I noticed that I forgot to Reply! I think we must have been born in the Dark Ages, where information was so hard to obtain. We couldn't answer any questions without a journey to the Library! But, I did get to watch Armstrong take the first step on the Moon. This was a great achievement! I would not trade that moment for a million years, or dollars. Wasn't much fun though when Pres. Kennedy died.

[qadeshet]

9 members, 49 guests, 1 anonymous users

 

A warm welcome to our Guests! I hope that we can answer at least some of your questions. Consider this:

 

Any god that is worthy of our Love, neither wants nor needs snivelling worship!

 

Religion uses our credulity to take our time and money. 86% of all Believers were indoctrinated between the ages of 4/14. Young children believe whatever they're told. Be brave and learn to think for yourself.

 

4/14 Window Movement

 

If I have managed to make you think a little, join us!

[Margee]

To the 72 precious guests who are reading Ex-c right now.

 

I just had a thought come to me. Have you ever wondered why we own so many christian books outside of the bible? If the bible was truly god's word, would he have not made it that we wouldn't have to spend hundreds of dollars on extra books?  Why is it that 'he' had to appoint the thousands of christian authors to help explain 'his word'? If the bible is truly the 'word of god' - then we shouldn't have to go to other books  for 'therapy' in Christianity. God should have given us all the clarity and comfort in the one main book called the bible. Why do we need other authors to write books on worry, fear, depression, anxiety, trusting god, praying, getting closer to the holy spirit, how to fight satan off, how to pray for loved ones and on and on and on.... etc....

 

Joyce Meyers alone has written over 70 books to help explain god?? Can't we just trust god without buying all those books? I didn't. I owned hundreds of books. I wanted someone to explain to me why my prayers seemed to hit the ceiling so many times. I wanted answers for why I did not feel god was protecting me from so many tragedies and heartbreak I had to endure. I had to turn to authors for comfort so I could try to believe stronger. Can any of you relate to this?

 

Just something to think about tonight.

 

((hugs)) to you all! 

[qadeshet]

4 members, 43 guests, 0 anonymous users

 

Welcome to all and have a great day!

 

Did you know that the "Golden Rule" was ancient before Jesus supposedly spoke it? Plato's "Golden Rule" is 500 years earlier.

 

From Ancient Egypt:

 

Golden Rule

 

Ancient Egypt

Possibly the earliest affirmation of the maxim of reciprocity reflecting the ancient Egyptian goddess, Ma'at, who appears in the story of The Eloquent Peasant, which dates to the Middle Kingdom (c. 2040 – c. 1650 BC): "Now this is the command: Do to the doer to make him do."^[10][11] This proverb embodies the do ut des principle.^[12] A Late Period (c. 664 BC – 323 BC) papyrus contains an early negative affirmation of the Golden Rule: "That which you hate to be done to you, do not do to another."^[13]

 

Treat others the way that you wish to be treated, and do no harm.

 

The only thing you can take with you when you die? The legacy of an Honorable Life, lived well.

 

 

Please visit soon. Why haven't you joined yet?

 

To the 72 precious guests who are reading Ex-c right now.

 

I just had a thought come to me. Have you ever wondered why we own so many christian books outside of the bible? If the bible was truly god's word, would he have not made it that we wouldn't have to spend hundreds of dollars on extra books?  Why is it that 'he' had to appoint the thousands of christian authors to help explain 'his word'? If the bible is truly the 'word of god' - then we shouldn't have to go to other books  for 'therapy' in Christianity. God should have given us all the clarity and comfort in the one main book called the bible. Why do we need other authors to write books on worry, fear, depression, anxiety, trusting god, praying, getting closer to the holy spirit, how to fight satan off, how to pray for loved ones and on and on and on.... etc....

 

Joyce Meyers alone has written over 70 books to help explain god?? Can't we just trust god without buying all those books? I didn't. I owned hundreds of books. I wanted someone to explain to me why my prayers seemed to hit the ceiling so many times. I wanted answers for why I did not feel god was protecting me from so many tragedies and heartbreak I had to endure. I had to turn to authors for comfort so I could try to believe stronger. Can any of you relate to this?

 

Just something to think about tonight.

 

((hugs)) to you all! 

 

Huggs Margee. Great post. Thanks!

[Margee]

To the 49 precious guests who are reading this right now. Take just 5 minutes out of your time and watch this very short video.

Thousands of christians will say that god's design for the universe is completely perfect. Watch this to the end and then think about it. These were the very things I used to question God about... and it took a physicist to answer for me.

 

(hugs) to you all tonight

[qadeshet]

9 members, 48 guests, 2 anonymous users

 

Hello valued Guests, we are happy that you have entered our Home. Welcome!

Here's a little tidbit from the Epic of Gilgamesh...

 

 

From Tablet 10:

 

 So, Gilgamesh uses his cloak as a sail. When he arrives at the far shore, he finds Utanapishtim. Utanapishtim tells him that he has wasted his time because all humans die, the only question being when.

 

From Tablet 11:

 

Gilgamesh asks Utanapishtim how he became immortal. Utanapishtim tells the story of how Ea came to his village and said that Enlil was going to destroy humanity. Ea said someone should build a ship. Utanapishtim built the ship with help from workmen in the village. When the flood was over, there was arguing between the gods. To deflect the accusation that he was trying to destroy humanity, Enlil gave Utanapishtim and his wife immortality.

 

If you would like to read the original story of The Flood, then at least now you know where to find it. Join us here on this great voyage of discovery.

 

The only thing you can take with you when you die? The legacy of an Honorable Life, lived well.

 

Asaide to Margee: Great idea about Neil Degrasse Tyson. Maybe we should quote Sheldon Cooper too? Huggs